I see this is available now on Steam for $39.99 ($59.99 deluxe). Anyone been playing this when it was early access? Any feedback to share? Thanks.
I haven't played it (downloading now) but everything I've read about it indicates it's excellent.
Quote from: tgb on September 19, 2014, 12:59:22 PM
I haven't played it (downloading now) but everything I've read about it indicates it's excellent.
Excellent? Positive, yes, but I've definitely seen critiques. Most commercial reviews place it firmly in the 80-85 out of 100 zone.
Is it now offically released?
Crap.
I just bought AoW3!!
And......?
Given al the hype about Divinity a few months back, I'm surprised Wasteland has flown under the radar around here.
I played some of the beta. I intentionally cut myself of from playing further because I could feel myself getting sucked into it and I didn't want to ruin the full game. I really enjoyed what I did play. I'm really curious to see if there really is as many choices and content as they claim there is. It a lot of ways it feels like open world XCOM. Even though combat generally plays out the same I never got bored with them. I don;t think it has the option to bow up random scenery like Divinity. But I think Divinity has too much clutter (oh look another poison/fire/water barrel to blow up)
There are still some quirks though. You can have fire and miss a target that is literally standing next to you and I did have the occasional instance of 3-4 enemies surrounding one of my guys and beating on him. I do wish the game had a stealth mechanic. There are a few fights I encountered where I wish I had been able to sneak into a better position.
All in all I really enjoyed the beta. I can definitely see myself getting hooked on this in a way Divinity doesn't.
Quote from: Kushan on September 19, 2014, 02:26:21 PM
All in all I really enjoyed the beta. I can definitely see myself getting hooked on this in a way Divinity doesn't.
How would you rate the production values? I've read that your character appearance doesn't change based on what armor you equipped - tell me at least it changes based the weapon. I'm obviously more concerned about gameplay, but I'm trying to decide if I should pick this up now or wait a bit for a price drop.
Also, I've already got a huge backlog, including Japan's first turn in WITPAE. That could keep one busy for a year alone :)
Yeah, I reeeeeally want W2, but I can wait. Lots on the plate already. And besides, it'll go on sale eventually. :coolsmiley:
^I'm with you. I have a big backlog that I've been making good progress on. But I loved Wasteland on the C64 when I was 14 so...I pretty much must buy this at some point. Just not right now.
I was just driving by Steam and it fell right into my cart. Didn't even realize it was there until it started downloading. I swear.
LOL @ panzerde - wish I could use that excuse on the wife.
I first played Wasteland on an Apple IIc. My God that game was a massive pain in the ass, but I loved it. Had the hint book and it still was a tough play. A friend of mine gave me a few hints and when I did those, it got a lot easier for me. I still have the rule book and paragraph book here in my office somewhere.
Quote from: Kushan on September 19, 2014, 02:26:21 PM
Given al the hype about Divinity a few months back, I'm surprised Wasteland has flown under the radar around here.
I played some of the beta. I intentionally cut myself of from playing further because I could feel myself getting sucked into it and I didn't want to ruin the full game. I really enjoyed what I did play. I'm really curious to see if there really is as many choices and content as they claim there is. It a lot of ways it feels like open world XCOM. Even though combat generally plays out the same I never got bored with them. I don;t think it has the option to bow up random scenery like Divinity. But I think Divinity has too much clutter (oh look another poison/fire/water barrel to blow up)
There are still some quirks though. You can have fire and miss a target that is literally standing next to you and I did have the occasional instance of 3-4 enemies surrounding one of my guys and beating on him. I do wish the game had a stealth mechanic. There are a few fights I encountered where I wish I had been able to sneak into a better position.
All in all I really enjoyed the beta. I can definitely see myself getting hooked on this in a way Divinity doesn't.
More than XCOM, tactical combat feels to me a lot like JA2 or the original X-COM. All good so far, played 3 hours last night and I thoroughly enjoyed the challenge of tactical combat at the third difficulty level.
I don't like much the UI, some of the very vocal and eloquent supporters on inXile forums took it in a direction I didn't appreciate much.
Regarding production values, they're far better than the original Fallout games. So I can't really complain.
Regarding quests, I see that they go more on railroads than in Divinity, but nowhere as much as in Mass Effect.
Quote from: panzerde on September 19, 2014, 09:20:26 PM
I was just driving by Steam and it fell right into my cart. Didn't even realize it was there until it started downloading. I swear.
I think there could be a bug in Steam...the EXACT same thing happened to me! :P
Really thinking about this one since I don't think I have bought a game in a couple of months (what happened to my impulse buying)....but reading through some of the forums, seems like one person really likes it while the next one thinks its dull and clunky. Seems like folks also say the character creation is very complex as well, which is always something I struggle with in all these games, trying to start out with the right characters.
So I will be keeping an eye on this thread to see if this might be something to break my dry spell.....
This is hard...and I'm only on the second level of difficulty :-(
Quote from: JudgeDredd on September 20, 2014, 08:33:57 AM
This is hard...and I'm only on the second level of difficulty :-(
Quote from: Bletchley_Geek on September 19, 2014, 11:14:51 PM
More than XCOM, tactical combat feels to me a lot like JA2 or the original X-COM. All good so far, played 3 hours last night and I thoroughly enjoyed the challenge of tactical combat at the third difficulty level.
I don't like much the UI, some of the very vocal and eloquent supporters on inXile forums took it in a direction I didn't appreciate much.
Regarding production values, they're far better than the original Fallout games. So I can't really complain.
Regarding quests, I see that they go more on railroads than in Divinity, but nowhere as much as in Mass Effect.
I'm starting to feel my resolve weakening... one critical question (for me) I hope someone can answer if they have a sec: will your character models change to reflect the current weapon at least? Thanks for the impressions so far.
So lemme get this straight..
Deep character customization. Short on useable items but too much vendor junk. Campaign leads you around but there are some sideshows to be seen. 40+ hours of campaign gameplay. Somewhat clunky interface and possibly needs more optimization.
Is this true? I could easily wait until some more updates were applied so I've been sitting it out thus far. The lack of item variety is one of the big head scratchers.
Interface isn't too bad.
And I don't find myself being led around by the plot.
In fact I spend most of my time exploring around.
Quote from: Dread Rlyeh on September 20, 2014, 08:42:35 AM
I'm starting to feel my resolve weakening... one critical question (for me) I hope someone can answer if they have a sec: will your character models change to reflect the current weapon at least? Thanks for the impressions so far.
I'm not sure where you heard that, but its not true, at least from what I can see. I've only found weapons so far, but I've been able to switch them out and have it change on the model. Given that there are armor slots on the character screen I don't see why they would have skipped making armor change your character as well.
Quote from: Nefaro on September 20, 2014, 09:34:48 AM
Deep character customization. Short on useable items but too much vendor junk. Campaign leads you around but there are some sideshows to be seen. 40+ hours of campaign gameplay. Somewhat clunky interface and possibly needs more optimization.
There is a lot of "junk" but given the post apocalyptic nature of the game I would have been disappointed if you didn't find a lot of it. If anything I think there isn't enough. I really wish they had gone with a TES/Fallout 3/ Fallout NV style of loot where you could loot everything on a corpse. Early in the game, hope it carries all the way through, it really does feel like your having to scavenge to survive. An hour or so in right now, and some of my characters only have a few shots left in their magazines.
UI isn't that bad. The only thing I find annoying about it is that your inventory is tracked on a per character basis, and so there's a lot of having to move the right ammo/item from one person to the another. I also miss the concept art character portraits. From what I've been able to find, most of it was also being used for NPC art and some players complained. But I liked the concept art a lot more then crazy drug addict art that was added to replace it. At least we can add in our own portraits.
You're not forced to follow the campaign. You can start wondering around right from the start if you want to.
Quote from: Kushan on September 20, 2014, 11:05:53 AM
Quote from: Dread Rlyeh on September 20, 2014, 08:42:35 AM
I'm starting to feel my resolve weakening... one critical question (for me) I hope someone can answer if they have a sec: will your character models change to reflect the current weapon at least? Thanks for the impressions so far.
I'm not sure where you heard that, but its not true, at least from what I can see. I've only found weapons so far, but I've been able to switch them out and have it change on the model. Given that there are armor slots on the character screen I don't see why they would have skipped making armor change your character as well.
I had read it somewhere when I was looking at the progress of the game (perhaps the link included below, don't remember) and was hoping it would be in the final game. Yesterday, I read some user review that was kind of down on the production values and also mentioned that while character customization at creation seemed pretty decent, equipped armor wasn't reflected in the model. Don't remember where I found that.
Anyway, given the two, I assumed the final version didn't have armor reflected in the model. I would like to be mistaken as I think that sort of thing really helps in immersion. Thanks for the feedback on the weapons.
Quote
EDIT - And no, armor still doesn't show up on your character model. The Devs seem to have pretty much settled on the whole "Clothing is cosmetic, Armor is functional" approach. Personally, I'm fine with that.
****just realized the link below contains armor SPOLIERS, click at your own risk****
https://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7912
Quote from: Dread Rlyeh on September 20, 2014, 11:24:54 AM
Quote
EDIT - And no, armor still doesn't show up on your character model. The Devs seem to have pretty much settled on the whole "Clothing is cosmetic, Armor is functional" approach. Personally, I'm fine with that.
Sorry, you might be right. I didn't look closely enough. There is a different category for armor and clothing. I had assumed that like most dev's they would be treated the same just with different protection ratings. For me its that big of an issue since I spend most of my time zoomed out.
I like the idea of armor and clothes being different. If I find a look for a character I like, but I find a better piece of armor, I don't have to ruin the look of my character by upgrading.
Quote from: Kushan on September 20, 2014, 12:40:48 PM
I like the idea of armor and clothes being different. If I find a look for a character I like, but I find a better piece of armor, I don't have to ruin the look of my character by upgrading.
I'm happy with that provided there is a range of clothing options that can be changed as the game progresses. If I pick up something I imagine looks like Fallout power armor, I just don't want my character still wearing his dusty leathers.
I'm guessing that modding will eventually solve any model issues I have, I'm just trying to talk myself into buying this today. I would snap buy if it were $10 cheaper, $40 sticks in my craw a bit. Perhaps a little beer will put that fire out, however :)
Seems they gave it a lovely graphic polish between the last beta and release. Really enjoying the game so far. Acually matching up to the hype. Big thumbs up.
Quote from: Kushan on September 20, 2014, 11:05:53 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on September 20, 2014, 09:34:48 AM
Deep character customization. Short on useable items but too much vendor junk. Campaign leads you around but there are some sideshows to be seen. 40+ hours of campaign gameplay. Somewhat clunky interface and possibly needs more optimization.
There is a lot of "junk" but given the post apocalyptic nature of the game I would have been disappointed if you didn't find a lot of it. If anything I think there isn't enough. I really wish they had gone with a TES/Fallout 3/ Fallout NV style of loot where you could loot everything on a corpse. Early in the game, hope it carries all the way through, it really does feel like your having to scavenge to survive. An hour or so in right now, and some of my characters only have a few shots left in their magazines.
UI isn't that bad. The only thing I find annoying about it is that your inventory is tracked on a per character basis, and so there's a lot of having to move the right ammo/item from one person to the another. I also miss the concept art character portraits. From what I've been able to find, most of it was also being used for NPC art and some players complained. But I liked the concept art a lot more then crazy drug addict art that was added to replace it. At least we can add in our own portraits.
You're not forced to follow the campaign. You can start wondering around right from the start if you want to.
I meant to put some question marks on all those points I had read about it, to see if you guys agreed.
I've just reached an RPG/Strategy kick again so I will probably buckle like a belt since you put some of my concerns to rest. Thanks Kushan!
I'm a bit stuck in that at the Radio Tower, there's meant to be 3 caves - I only found two and I have hunted high and low
One really, REALLY annoying aspect is the lack of camera control. I've seen this many times and it seems to be RPG games that a restricted camera is often applied to the game...why? I don't know, but it's infuriating. I want to zoom out more, I want to adjust the angle and I want to zoom in more >:(
The game is old school hard..having trouble at the AG center.
JD you talking about the first place you go to?
There are only two caves mate.
One with a Frog in and one with a Statue in.
I started playing this at 10am. I just looked at my clock, and it's now 4:30pm....
Not too bad, my only gripe is that there seems to be a lack of focus or an overall goal. There's a lot going on in game, and I'm at a point where I'm not sure what what I should be doing.
Other things:
I recruited a 5th squad member - Angela Death - located at the citadel. Very useful, good stats but will sometimes go berzerk in combat.
Why doesn't Ranger Base have an infirmary where I can get healed? High pool has a hospital, but not our own base?
Shotguns are awful
Im avoiding fighting mutants/bugs/reptiles at all costs. They don't drop anything useful. Also, why don't the humans enemies drop anything useful? They never drop their weapons or ammo. What happens to weapons? They just vanish. Also seems that ai has unlimited ammo - I could be wrong
The custom character setup can be overwhelming, but I may restart just to build a more versatile team. The stock characters are kind of limited.
Don't fire the Davey Crockett
Enjoying this quite a bit so far. It feels very traditional RPG. Combat is nicely tactical and rewards using the right weapons system to do the right thing. I'm still early in the story but what I've found so far is interesting and engaging. One thing I'm not thrilled with is that every time while traveling that I've run into a random encounter with raiders it's been on the same map. Needs some variety there.
Camera control isn't as flexible as I'd like. I wish I could tilt the camera on my own, but I can work with it. Overall I like the art so far.
It reminds me of playing Gamma World back in the '80s...
Dayum, Gamma World...loved that back in the day.
Quote from: panzerde on September 20, 2014, 06:09:00 PM
Enjoying this quite a bit so far. It feels very traditional RPG. Combat is nicely tactical and rewards using the right weapons system to do the right thing. I'm still early in the story but what I've found so far is interesting and engaging. One thing I'm not thrilled with is that every time while traveling that I've run into a random encounter with raiders it's been on the same map. Needs some variety there.
Camera control isn't as flexible as I'd like. I wish I could tilt the camera on my own, but I can work with it. Overall I like the art so far.
It reminds me of playing Gamma World back in the '80s...
During my travels I've ran into raiders and both times it's been the same map. I was hoping that was because they were roughly the same area
I've just ran into more random raiders and they were on a different map to the previous two encounters :)
Where the hell am I meant to get ammo?
I ended my drought of not buying games for awhile and picked this one up....haven't much time in it yet, but certainly seems like it can be complex, even the character creation. But that is Ok, something to try and master with time......even the first fight took its toll on my party, gotta get better at matching skills/weapons to the situation.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on September 21, 2014, 01:21:00 AM
Where the hell am I meant to get ammo?
So far I've picked up all my ammo from chests. I've yet to see enemies drop gear. One thing that wasn't clear to me for quite awhile - the skill for disarming traps is demolition. There is not overt "disarm traps" skill.
JD - glad to hear you found raiders on a different map. The gods of the random die roll must just have not been on the job for me. I did have a random encounter on another map, but it was with animals.
Stayed up until almost 2AM this morning clearing the Ag Center. I haven't done that sort of thing in ages.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on September 21, 2014, 01:21:00 AM
Where the hell am I meant to get ammo?
I was so low on ammo after the Radio tower that I went back to the Citadel and bought some. Not that I was able afford a lot of it. Think I may restart and rework my team to have some melee abilities.
You can rotate the camera with the Q and E keys.
As for how much to zoom, I've never found any trouble with the zoom levels.
Thanks but I know how to operate the camera - I just find I want Combat Mission like control over it. But as I've said, I've found, of the few RPG tactical games I've tried, they have limited camera movement for some bizarre reason.
TacticalWargames - I was a bit stuck so looked for assistance on the web and it definitely stated 3 caves...I found two of them but the third was not where it was meant to be. I gave up in the end.
I keep finding I'm wasting ammo on things like roots on doors to allow access. I know what does it now, but I never knew before. It'd be handy if the mouseover told you your weapon would have no effect on the target.
Maybe I'm just spoilt - but I was hoping for more loot and DEFINITELY more ammo. I doubt very much I'm going to be able to clear the AG Centre through lack of ammo. Perhaps if I paid more attention to skills and types of weapon and ranges I'd be a bit better. I killed one of my squad with a pipe bomb. It was a case of having to really. The "enemy" had put themselves in such a position around him that ANY shooting at the enemy would have resulted in him receiving multiple hits. On the plus side, I did manage to get rid of 6 enemy...which would've cost me a lot in med kits overall - and the guy would probably still have died.
I'm fumbling around a bit. I don't actually know what I'm meant to do most of the time. There's a couple of corridors with some "infectious" gas which if I switch on the extraction/fan system would clear, but I'm pretty sure I've mouse'd over just about everything and couldn't find anything to "switch on".
So I have some minor gripes (my fumbling about aside) with it just now...but overall a very positive playing experience.
Quote from: Kushan on September 21, 2014, 11:13:17 AM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on September 21, 2014, 01:21:00 AM
Where the hell am I meant to get ammo?
I was so low on ammo after the Radio tower that I went back to the Citadel and bought some. Not that I was able afford a lot of it. Think I may restart and rework my team to have some melee abilities.
There's a real scarcity of both ammo and medical supplies. In the early stages you can't really afford to buyout the stocks of the merchants NPCs, and in this game ammo goes away fast. In my opinion, it does indeed fit the setting - I can't really imagine that 150 years after the bombs fell you can expect to find ammo stores in Walmart sitting on their shelves waiting for you to plunder them. As Kushan says, it is a good idea that every character in the party has as a secondary ability bladed weapons or unarmed combat skills. You might find yourself running out of ammo in the middle of the thick of it, especially if combat is at long ranges (100% hit chance is rare unless you are on higher ground than the target) or you're profligate with firepower (burst fire mode sometimes is necessary to stop cold some of the very nasty NPCs, but it really burns quick through your ammo). Having to manage little crisis like running out of ammo for my snipers - happened to me already two or three times - or rushing to avoid a character to bleed out make games memorable (you had this in JA2, and that's one of the reasons I find that game especially memorable).
Resorting to hand-to-hand combat doesn't feel to be "forced" on the game - it is an integral part of it. Most long fire arms have a minimum range, and in maps where combat happens at close range, charging at your enemies is a very viable tactic (the AI also uses it to great effect).
Answering to the queries regarding how the models of the characters change regarding to equipment. There's a good degree of customization, but it's not like there's a specific 3D model for every single piece of clothing or weaponry. For instance, you can distinguish helmets from cowboy hats, and rifles from hand guns. But you can't tell apart the ".38 Midnight Special" from the generic ".38 Revolver".
There's a lot of story in this and my initial impressions are good. Just getting into rescuing Ag Center people and all is going well. With ammo to spare, probably because most of my characters took one gun and one melee skills from the start (and are therefore armed with both).
I have also been steadily looting ammo & medpacks along the way after getting two levels each in Lockpicking and Safecracking. Added some Perception (or is it Awareness?) and Demolitions after first level-up to disarm traps on them too.
It's the same style of narrative-oriented RPG as Shadowrun Returns although it probably has more gameplay than any one of the two campaigns in that. More depth too, since it's a full-on PC RPG. The interface reminds me of Fallout.
Anyway.. my priority starting non-weapon skills in the party:
Field Medic
Surgeon
Lockpicking
Safecracking
Hardass or Kiss Ass or Wise Ass or a combination of two.
(And keep raising these up as you go)
Get at start or soon:
Perception
Demolitions
Weaponsmithing
Computer Science
Outdoorsman?
Brute Force?
You can get extra NPCs to join your party that are pretty good in a couple skills along the way so you can fill some holes here & there. Not sure how long they stick around but I'm guessing they don't stay the whole game.
I accepted the defaults because I didn't really know what to do with their skills. There were so many.
Also - in these games (when I've played the...and RPG's are not my normal genre) I normally end up putting all skill points I get into some kind of weapon related skill...likely a bad move.
Now I know how low ammo is, I should go back, start again and give some melee skills points out
After 14 hours of gameplay I'm starting to lose interest.
There just seems to be a lack of overall focus.
The quests are not well defined, and I honestly couldn't tell you what my overall goal is.
For a game world as large as Wastelands, I think it's unfair to send players off with such limited indication on the overall mission or such limited direction. Maybe that's the "charm" behind Wastelands but it has become a huge turn off for me.
ok - in AG Centre, in order to get rid of the poison, I have to close a broken door after I switch off a fan...however I'm meant to use someone with Brute Force and I don't have anyone with even one level of Brute Force...any ideas what to do next? Anyone I select just has the "right click" to examine option - not "left click" to interact...which suggests to me I have no way of getting rid of the poison
*edit*
I do actually have one person with 1 level of Brute Force - but she can't seem to interact with the door
*edit for :uglystupid2: *
Use the Brute Force icon DUH!
Quote from: JudgeDredd on September 22, 2014, 04:55:26 PM
*edit*
I do actually have one person with 1 level of Brute Force - but she can't seem to interact with the door
*edit for :uglystupid2: *
Use the Brute Force icon DUH!
Yep.
They don't use the appropriate skill(s) for doing stuff by right-clicking alone. You gotta manually activate whichever skill you wanna use on their ability bar.
I'm guessing they did this because there may be times where you can use more than one skill type to achieve something with a specific object?
Well, I noticed the icons and knew how to use them because one of my guys has lock picking and safe cracking and I've been using those to...well...pick locks and crack safes!
There's another 2 hours gone. It's 23:30 now! >:(
There's definitely some puzzle-y challenges in this game. Took me a bit to figure out how to get the fans working myself.
The ammo situation dramatically improves when you get access to Ranger Citadel, which you can get right after you save the Ag Center. My advice is to head directly back to the Citadel and get promoted to full Ranger access as soon as you can, don't horse around with the side quests until you do. You get access to a small army of additional vendors, and there's a good bit of backstory revealed that helps flesh things out.
Melee skills are pretty useful, though. I've made sure to add some to my party.
Quote from: panzerde on September 22, 2014, 09:40:37 PM
There's definitely some puzzle-y challenges in this game. Took me a bit to figure out how to get the fans working myself.
The ammo situation dramatically improves when you get access to Ranger Citadel, which you can get right after you save the Ag Center. My advice is to head directly back to the Citadel and get promoted to full Ranger access as soon as you can, don't horse around with the side quests until you do. You get access to a small army of additional vendors, and there's a good bit of backstory revealed that helps flesh things out.
Melee skills are pretty useful, though. I've made sure to add some to my party.
I don't know if it's my age or if I'm just not as clever as I think I am, but I was infuriated enough (with myself) by not knowing wth I was meant to be doing - so I went and looked at a walkthrough...and I'm not even embarrassed. It saved me what I expect would've been HOURS going back and forward trying to work things out.
**small SPOILER below**
For example, I knew the gas was there and some corridors which weren't investigated, but I (wrongly) assumed you had to get rid of the gas from somewhere else...so I never thought about going through, unlocking the door, switching off the fan, running through, brute force closing the broken door, going back, blah, blah, blah...I'd NEVER have got all that without the walk through
First try I went for AG center..but decided once I got to the gas in tunnels bit to start again and this time go to Highpool.
The Logbook kinda sucks since it doesn't record the finer details of what you're supposed to do.
I've found similar problems when you complete a combat and the radio text bubble pops up on screen. Stuck behind the "Logbook Updated" message at the top (or other such obstructions). After those big bubbles which explain what you're to do next disappear a few seconds later, they're gone for good. This can be an even larger pain in the ass when combat ends and you have a bleeding or downed character. The switch back to real-time means they'll start dying at a faster rate and you must scramble to give the medic orders ASAP while your next objective details briefly pop up. The text isn't in your message list on the primary screen, and the Logbook only contains a brief summary without the finer details. If it were copied to one or the other, it would be just fine. >:(
Yet I've still been playing it quite a bit. Just finished Ag Center. Thankfully. Was getting sick of the place. Hopefully there will be more post-apoc conflict in the next ones and less of that sub-plot (although I have some side missions outside the place left over from it).
Yesterday night I was writing down stuff NPCs were saying on a notebook. A paper one, with an actual pencil.
It's handy I still keep notes while working at home, otherwise I would have had to walk down one block to the gas station in order to figure out a couple puzzles on the Prison area.
Can you not pause the game to issue orders, then unpause to execute them?
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on September 23, 2014, 05:58:28 AM
Can you not pause the game to issue orders, then unpause to execute them?
I don't know most of the keyboard commands, if there are much in the first place. AFAIK, you must use the Esc menu to pause, blocking off your input. I also don't know if there's a command to force the game into turn-based combat mode, need to look again. I don't think there's one on the interface. Would be nice to have.
What the hell is it with that character at the valve in AG Centre? How come they get like 5 or 6 actions?? Killed my entire team!
Bit of info..highpool is alot easier to complete than agr center.
Ugh...
I really hate it when game devs insist on silly arbitrary dialogue choices.
I'm at the Nomad Rail Camp. I managed to impress Casey Jones and was given the option to ask for something in return from him, I idiotically chose the "Shoe Brake" for the train,
believing I could bring peace to the respective camps with it (Casey himself pointed it out), and later did something sillier and saved on the same save I've used for hours and hours on end :(
Thing is, now Casey won't talk to me anymore and if I try to give the brake back to the Topekans, they just decide to massacre the Atchisons, i.e I've failed the quest to bring peace.
Since I can't talk to the Topekan chief about peace at all, and Casey won't talk to me, I'm forced into a certain trap simply because the devs wouldn't let me choose what I want to say.
This has always been one of the things I hate the most about CRPGs, the actual lack of choice and freedom of action. >:( >:( >:(
Quote from: JudgeDredd on September 23, 2014, 04:24:22 PM
What the hell is it with that character at the valve in AG Centre? How come they get like 5 or 6 actions?? Killed my entire team!
Panzy! :P
I had two go down but killed him & revived them shortly afterward. Only one had a lingering injury penalty for about 5 minutes after and then we were gtg.
Quote from: Nefaro on September 23, 2014, 05:31:13 PM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on September 23, 2014, 04:24:22 PM
What the hell is it with that character at the valve in AG Centre? How come they get like 5 or 6 actions?? Killed my entire team!
Panzy! :P
I had two go down but killed him & revived them shortly afterward. Only one had a lingering injury penalty for about 5 minutes after and then we were gtg.
Wouldn't be so bad if I had any freakin bullets. They've all got some sort of knife or cleaver and they have each a 15% chance to do damage. Plus, he gets off somewhere in the region of 5 or 6 shots PLUS clears his jam! If one of my guys has a jam, that's ALL their AP used.
I'm starting again and this time I'm off to bloody Highpool! ;D
Quote from: Tpek on September 23, 2014, 05:25:23 PM
This has always been one of the things I hate the most about CRPGs, the actual lack of choice and freedom of action. >:( >:( >:(
The only RPGs that give you complete freedom in whatever you want to do are Roguelikes, in my experience. They don't have any story or plot to follow, though, and that's why. The complete randomization helps too. They're more like strategy RPGs.
All the traditional RPGs, with some kind of plot to play through, must lead you in that direction eventually. So you're still gonna be shoved down the main path to varying degrees. The only way to get away from that is to have no quests or one "I Win" objective, along with a completely open and procedurally generated world. That essentially turns an RPG into a Roguelike, which isn't quite the same.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on September 23, 2014, 05:38:03 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on September 23, 2014, 05:31:13 PM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on September 23, 2014, 04:24:22 PM
What the hell is it with that character at the valve in AG Centre? How come they get like 5 or 6 actions?? Killed my entire team!
Panzy! :P
I had two go down but killed him & revived them shortly afterward. Only one had a lingering injury penalty for about 5 minutes after and then we were gtg.
Wouldn't be so bad if I had any freakin bullets. They've all got some sort of knife or cleaver and they have each a 15% chance to do damage. Plus, he gets off somewhere in the region of 5 or 6 shots PLUS clears his jam! If one of my guys has a jam, that's ALL their AP used.
I'm starting again and this time I'm off to bloody Highpool! ;D
I'm tempted to do the same. The Ag Center is actually just frustrating. Bloody Giant Rabbits are a real problem without ammo.
Quote from: Tpek on September 23, 2014, 05:25:23 PM
This has always been one of the things I hate the most about CRPGs, the actual lack of choice and freedom of action. >:( >:( >:(
Actually, addressing the Topekans and Atchinsons feud requires entering
manually a keyword during dialogue at the right time and said to the right person. Or so it was during the Beta - I'm getting close to that point of the quest on the release version.
Quote from: Bletchley_Geek on September 23, 2014, 07:28:06 PM
Quote from: Tpek on September 23, 2014, 05:25:23 PM
This has always been one of the things I hate the most about CRPGs, the actual lack of choice and freedom of action. >:( >:( >:(
Actually, addressing the Topekans and Atchinsons feud requires entering manually a keyword during dialogue at the right time and said to the right person. Or so it was during the Beta - I'm getting close to that point of the quest on the release version.
That's more like an overly vague puzzle mechanic than open gameplay.
I killed all the Atchinsons, then I killed all the Topekans while I used Ralphie - yes I'm demented. During my genocide I got a call from Ranger Citadel asking if I was killing people. I said I wasn't.
Then I uninstalled the game, because I think it's a poor game. I don't like the lack of direction and overall vague guidance.I enjoy games for their fun and I think Wastelands 2 is a lot of uneccesary work with little fun.
Quote from: Nefaro on September 23, 2014, 08:57:08 PM
That's more like an overly vague puzzle mechanic than open gameplay.
Since the game needs to be programmed beforehand in order to recognize player input, "true open gameplay" is more of a chimera than anything else until someone turns up with a way to generate procedurally interesting story lines. And indeed, it is a bit of a "puzzle" in that the number of possible candidates as the "right option" to consider is huge, so "figuring out the solution" isn't a matter of ploughing through a limited number of options via intensely straining the game Load Game feature. To me, personally, it does convey better the "illusion" of open gameplay than other much trumpeted around and recent games.
Playing Wasteland 2 makes me realize that I have "grown soft around the belly" when it comes to "figure out things". It used to be the case, 20 years ago, that the choices one had in games weren't spelt out for you in big icons. And yes, some quests can fail if you don't react quickly enough. The starting Ralphy quest in the Rail Nomads Camp is another example of "choices being there, but nobody is pointing you towards them".
I still remember playing Star Control 2 for the very first time - with a much shakier command of English than I have now - and man, some of the "quests" there were a head-scratcher for me during the best part of a decade (I've refused to read any walkthrough for that game for 20 years now). There's stuff in that game I hadn't discovered until I looked into the source code (check out the free software remake, The Ur-Quan Masters, for a trip down Memory Lane).
More examples could be the "rubber chicken with pulley in the middle" from Monkey Island, its uses and the possibility of reaching a dead-end if you didn't pick it up, or the chest riddles in Betrayal At Krondor like
Quote
A barrel of rainwater
weighs twenty pounds.
What must you add
to make it weigh fifteen?
We might have simply forgotten about those very notable and memorable features of "Old School" games with adventure aspects.
I don't want to excuse bugs - I think there are some mildly bugged quests in Wasteland 2 - but in this particular case I think inXile is being very true to the promise of delivering "old school" gameplay.
Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on September 23, 2014, 09:45:26 PM
I killed all the Atchinsons, then I killed all the Topekans while I used Ralphie - yes I'm demented. During my genocide I got a call from Ranger Citadel asking if I was killing people. I said I wasn't.
Then I uninstalled the game, because I think it's a poor game. I don't like the lack of direction and overall vague guidance.I enjoy games for their fun and I think Wastelands 2 is a lot of uneccesary work with little fun.
lol - I'll struggle to find a funnier post today I think ;D
Quote from: Bletchley_Geek on September 23, 2014, 07:28:06 PM
Quote from: Tpek on September 23, 2014, 05:25:23 PM
This has always been one of the things I hate the most about CRPGs, the actual lack of choice and freedom of action. >:( >:( >:(
Actually, addressing the Topekans and Atchinsons feud requires entering manually a keyword during dialogue at the right time and said to the right person. Or so it was during the Beta - I'm getting close to that point of the quest on the release version.
I tried telling Kebab-Chief or whatever his name is the
both word and also
peace but he ignores it.
Quote from: Tpek on September 24, 2014, 04:08:28 AM
Quote from: Bletchley_Geek on September 23, 2014, 07:28:06 PM
Quote from: Tpek on September 23, 2014, 05:25:23 PM
This has always been one of the things I hate the most about CRPGs, the actual lack of choice and freedom of action. >:( >:( >:(
Actually, addressing the Topekans and Atchinsons feud requires entering manually a keyword during dialogue at the right time and said to the right person. Or so it was during the Beta - I'm getting close to that point of the quest on the release version.
I tried telling Kebab-Chief or whatever his name is the both word and also peace but he ignores it
Some hints - I just finished the Topeka v. Atchinson quest with the Peace option. Here goes a list of stuff that needs to happen
1) Ralphy needs to be alive
2) Jessie needs to die
3) Schmooze Kebab Chief doing two quests, one in the middle of your way, the other is not
4) The word in italics needs to be said to the person who says it, as an answer
There are still other ways the peace outcome can go awry, but that should pretty much put you in the right railroads track :)
^I've saved Ralphy and Jessie.
I destroyed the Rail Thieves and have the Golden Spike.
I returned the stolen shipments to Mr Holiday.
I've fixed the well in the Atchison village.
Still no go though.
According to the forums this game has, I had to ask Casey to come up with terms for peace instead of asking for the Golden Spike.
Kebab won't offer me the chance for peace unless I first convince Casey.
But if you know of any more quests/stuff I have to do before that, I'd be glad to hear!
Is there a quest guide?
So...okay, is Wasteland 2 a remake of Wasteland, or taking place after Wasteland?
I thought it took place afterwards, but after you guys discussing the killer bunnies at the Ag Center...well that was from the first game I believe. I had a hard time with those bastards and whatever their weird Hodor-like leader, IIRC.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on September 24, 2014, 08:35:31 AM
So...okay, is Wasteland 2 a remake of Wasteland, or taking place after Wasteland?
I thought it took place afterwards, but after you guys discussing the killer bunnies at the Ag Center...well that was from the first game I believe. I had a hard time with those bastards and whatever their weird Hodor-like leader, IIRC.
It takes place after Wasteland 1. The Ag Center is very different from the Wasteland 1 Ag Center, killer bunnies notwithstanding.
And yeah, the boss with 100hp and the pistol was a real problem. I managed to kill him without casualties, but I mostly got lucky with a really solid crit.
His pistol only costs 2AP, and you can't really get into any useful cover with him since he always starts the fight. My trick was to keep everyone in crouch, that gave him some key misses that kept my people alive.
I both admire and hate all of you on this thread. I bought the game yesterday. I was planning on holding off unleast until November. After I purchased I read the entire manual before starting play. And thought about what many of you were griping about.
You have to think about your chosen skills very carefully at game start. Much more carefully than most RPGs. A balanced party is essential, and you can have very few missteps when setting up.
Next, there is an ammo shortage. But melee weapons are very powerful. What I do is pop people with guns, or with devistating hand-to-hand attacks at a distance with the assault rifle or the sniper rifle. Then when they get close I go almost 100% melee weapons. This both conserves ammo and encourages foes to run up to you while your party has multiples with saved action points to put a beat-down on. I have one character that is 100% guns (doctor with a sniper rifle and a pistol) and another character with 100% melee heavy weapons (beating board & grenades). Everyone else has one firearm and one melee weapon. In the early levels I'm putting all of the extra points into my weapons skills.
I'm also striving to avoid random encounters because of the ammo cost. They usually are not too strong, so a 100% melee weapon beatdown is usually viable when combat must take place.
Last, it is critical to have each party member hold a different ammo type firearm. There is just enough ammo to go around if you don't shoot when you don't have to coupled with only one person getting shotgun ammo, or sniper ammo, etc.......
This is the most challenging RPG that I have played in years. Your initial choices will make or break you. I could not have set up my party as I did without reading the manual carefully plus reading the general complaints about the game here and elsewhere.
I remember the original Wasteland being much the same; you had to have a certain skill or two to get through portions of the game. If you did not have them, you were humped halfway through and had to start over again.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on September 24, 2014, 01:56:09 PM
I remember the original Wasteland being much the same; you had to have a certain skill or two to get through portions of the game. If you did not have them, you were humped halfway through and had to start over again.
I don't have Wasteland 2 nor did I play the first. But I liked the way Fallout 1 and 2 handled skills and their in game use. There was always multiple ways to complete a quest or solve a puzzle, be it science, charisma or brute force. I remember reading you could actually play Fallout 1 to a conclusion without killing anything.
I didn't manage to successfully end the Rail Nomad feud. It may be that this totally screws me on down the line, but that 100% ok with me. This is an RPG, and I'm enjoying role playing a band of post-apocalypse Rangers immensely. To me the point of the game isn't to successfully complete each quest, but to play out whatever happens to whatever resolution happens. At some point later, when I need a break from endless variations on Barbarossa or Stalingrad or Hue or Jutland, I'll try a different party and make different choices and see how that plays out.
So for me, this is a great old school RPG, at least as good as the original Dragon Age. I agree with BG that there are some mildly bugged quests and a few polish issues. Some of it is hard, maybe even unfair, and I can see where that's not most people's cup of tea. This doesn't have the issues of X-Rebirth though, for example, where the game just didn't work and the role playing system wasn't even logically consistent.
As long as the game stays away from grindy FedEx BS, I'm ok with the Topekans massacring the Atchison's because I haven't figured out a solution. Sometimes stuff like that happens in real life and in good stories, and sometimes that means certain outcomes are closed off. I'm cool with that.
For everyone having ammo issues, now that I can get into the Citadel I'm not having ammo issues really at all. Just be sure to pick up anything that isn't nailed down and sell it, so you can afford to buy lots of shiny bullets and bombs later. I just bought about 200 rounds of 5.56mm as well as armor for several of my team, and didn't have to buy sniper ammo, pistol ammo, or energy cells because I've scavenged plenty.
Quote from: Rayfer on September 24, 2014, 02:12:08 PM
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on September 24, 2014, 01:56:09 PM
I remember the original Wasteland being much the same; you had to have a certain skill or two to get through portions of the game. If you did not have them, you were humped halfway through and had to start over again.
I don't have Wasteland 2 nor did I play the first. But I liked the way Fallout 1 and 2 handled skills and their in game use. There was always multiple ways to complete a quest or solve a puzzle, be it science, charisma or brute force. I remember reading you could actually play Fallout 1 to a conclusion without killing anything.
Wasteland 2 generally feels like Fallout 1 and 2. Although this "multiple ways" doesn't seem so prevalent thus far. If I hadn't taken the proper mix of specific skills and wide variety of weapons right from the start, the game would've been much more difficult up to this point.
The way Wasteland 2 handles filling in such Skill holes in your party is by having NPCs join your party. I'm unsure whether there are enough on offer to cover all of the ones I'd think essential early in the game, however. This just means that the missions don't have many different ways of completing them as was the case in Fallout. :-\
Despite it not quite being the next coming of Fallout 2, it's still a good game. You just gotta create a well-balanced party with specific selections. I suppose it does harken back to the older RPGs of the 80s in this way, although that isn't necessarily one of the better facets of which we have fond memories.
If you're a bit of a completionist in RPGs these days, like me, then you'll want to get used to not opening everything or finishing every mission in Wasteland 2. You'll enjoy it more if you can say goodbye to some parts, in the hopes that you may experience it in a later play. It's more enjoyable after coming to terms with that.
Quote from: Nefaro on September 24, 2014, 06:07:35 PM
If you're a bit of a completionist in RPGs these days, like me, then you'll want to get used to not opening everything or finishing every mission in Wasteland 2. You'll enjoy it more if you can say goodbye to some parts, in the hopes that you may experience it in a later play. It's more enjoyable after coming to terms with that.
This is a very asute observation. Let me elaborate for those who are considering purchase.
You have a agricultural worker who is entrapped by a set of vines. He is dying as the vines rip him apart. One member of your party has the following odds to save the guy:
Success: 21%
Critical Failure: 44%
The way Wasteland 2 works, you try something and you either get success (21%), critical failure (44%) or no success and no critical failure (35%). If you have no success and no critical failure - you can try again.
You might look at this and think that you have about a 1 in 5 chance of success. But your chances of success are less than this. If you try again, you are 44% likely to kill the guy on attempt #2. What we have is a set of conditional joint probabilities with a very high chance of a critical failure.
You get fooled on this because you have a lot of other situations where you have say a 75% chance of success and a 2% chance of critical failure. You might think again, that you will succeed about 3/4ths of the time. Nope. Your success rate is actually far higher. Here you "win" on round one 75% of the time, get to try over 23% of the time, and only lose 2% of the time. So you either win, or live to try to pick the lock again 98% of the time. You keep trying and you are highly likely to open the box and not jam the lock forever.
The way Wasteland 2 uses joint probabilities is really interesting because they explicitly give you the success chance and the critical failure chance. For those who do not understand probability calculations - this can really mislead you on your chances to succeed in a task. And most people don't understand statistics or probability theory.
Nefaro is right. You cannot be a completionist in Wasteland 2. Wasteland 2 actually tells you this why you are playing (if you understand the math). Some important quests if you choose "A" then "B" is going to die or be destroyed. You get this almost right off the bat on the choice between saving Highpool or the Ag Center. It is reinforced with the realistic pleas for assistance from the group that you did not choose on how they are being ground away unto death because you did not choose to save them.
Did anyone else not pick up the shovel after the burial of Ace and regret it when they came across all those lumps in the ground that said "Something is buried here" but you had nothing to go for it with? lol
Start again me thinks now I understand a bit more about the abilities (Brute Force, Melee values)
Quote from: JudgeDredd on September 25, 2014, 09:50:00 AM
Did anyone else not pick up the shovel after the burial of Ace and regret it when they came across all those lumps in the ground that said "Something is buried here" but you had nothing to go for it with? lol
Start again me thinks now I understand a bit more about the abilities (Brute Force, Melee values)
Not that you might not still want to build a different team anyway, but you can find shovels laying around in other places, or even buy one from the vendor in front of the Citadel, I think. It was a vendor I encountered early, anyway.
You had no money at the start.
In ALL my travels I never noticed a shovel. I could've missed it though.
I have started again and picked the shovel up and already found some kit in 3 lumps of earth even before leaving the Citadel.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on September 25, 2014, 05:27:31 PM
You had no money at the start.
In ALL my travels I never noticed a shovel. I could've missed it though.
I have started again and picked the shovel up and already found some kit in 3 lumps of earth even before leaving the Citadel.
Hit the "z" key frequently. It highlights everything that you can interact with in range of eyesight. Makes the game much, much more enjoyable and eliminates the pixel hunt. That way you don't miss shovels, toasters, etc.....
New patch has been released.
http://wastelandrpg.tumblr.com/post/98474203546/wasteland-2-patch-1-56458-release-notes (http://wastelandrpg.tumblr.com/post/98474203546/wasteland-2-patch-1-56458-release-notes)
I love the sporadic cultural references strewn throughout the game (like in the Fallout series).
For an example there's a companion named Lexicanum, when you ask him about his name he says
he's heard it means Encyclopedia in the 41st millennium (a Warhammer 41K reference). :D
If I'm honest, I think I'm missing half the game or more...because either I'm bored and just don't want to read the text, or I read it but with my short term memory problem, it's gone...doesn't sink in.
Which I guess makes the "story" kind of non-existent...almost
Quote from: Tpek on September 26, 2014, 11:59:49 AM
I love the sporadic cultural references strewn throughout the game (like in the Fallout series).
For an example there's a companion named Lexicanum, when you ask him about his name he says
he's heard it means Encyclopedia in the 41st millennium (a Warhammer 41K reference). :D
Yeah, I've read quite a few of them. The latest was the Red Ryder 'air gun' reference in the museum that stuck out because it was so long. But there are many short ones.
Quote from: Nefaro on September 26, 2014, 12:50:21 PM
Quote from: Tpek on September 26, 2014, 11:59:49 AM
I love the sporadic cultural references strewn throughout the game (like in the Fallout series).
For an example there's a companion named Lexicanum, when you ask him about his name he says
he's heard it means Encyclopedia in the 41st millennium (a Warhammer 41K reference). :D
Yeah, I've read quite a few of them. The latest was the Red Ryder 'air gun' reference in the museum that stuck out because it was so long. But there are many short ones.
I spent last night a good 20 minutes playing Snake in the Ranger's Museum - that's one you can make as long or as short as you want.
Late to the party on this one but I finally got around to it. Question....my sniper character seems worthless in the early battles. Is there a good way to build a sniper or are they just inherently weak? Comment...I like a lot about this game but the camera angles and limited view are annoying. I really wish you could see further out.
Quote from: Rayfer on October 29, 2014, 11:04:05 AM
Late to the party on this one but I finally got around to it. Question....my sniper character seems worthless in the early battles. Is there a good way to build a sniper or are they just inherently weak? Comment...I like a lot about this game but the camera angles and limited view are annoying. I really wish you could see further out.
The game has a significant weapon bias towards Assault Rifles. They work better than anything else. There have been quite a few statistical analyses on the official Wasteland 2 forum.
The only other offense/defense mixes that can work are:
a] Strong character that focuses only on hand-to-hand. Works very well both as a tank to soak up punishment, as a mule to carry stuff, and the damage meted out is impressive.
b] I have one character that used submachine guns and then picked up energy weapons. There is one, only one, energy weapon in the game that works very well.
c] Sniper Rifles work pretty well to engage enemies at a distance - but only for the first 1/3rd of the game. After that, the Assault Rifle works much better.
Quote from: Rayfer on October 29, 2014, 11:04:05 AM
Late to the party on this one but I finally got around to it. Question....my sniper character seems worthless in the early battles. Is there a good way to build a sniper or are they just inherently weak? Comment...I like a lot about this game but the camera angles and limited view are annoying. I really wish you could see further out.
My sniper is amazing. Your hit chance goes down the closer you are to your target, with sniper rifles. But they do the highest amount of damage per shot at the longest distance, often killing enemies before they can come to grips with you. So all you need to do is position them the furthest away.
Give your sniper a good amount of extra Action Points in character creation, as those cost a bit more to fire than others and you may need to move them further away every turn before taking a shot.
Quote from: Nefaro on October 29, 2014, 12:16:54 PM
Quote from: Rayfer on October 29, 2014, 11:04:05 AM
Late to the party on this one but I finally got around to it. Question....my sniper character seems worthless in the early battles. Is there a good way to build a sniper or are they just inherently weak? Comment...I like a lot about this game but the camera angles and limited view are annoying. I really wish you could see further out.
My sniper is amazing. Your hit chance goes down the closer you are to your target, with sniper rifles. But they do the highest amount of damage per shot at the longest distance, often killing enemies before they can come to grips with you. So all you need to do is position them the furthest away.
Give your sniper a good amount of extra Action Points in character creation, as those cost a bit more to fire than others and you may need to move them further away every turn before taking a shot.
All true - but holds for about the first third of the game. After that, the range advantage that snipers have goes away. After the mid-point of the game Assault Rifles can hit anything in line of sight and do more damage because they can fire multiple shots. The disadvantage for close range shots for sinper rifles is greater than that for Assault Rifles.
There have been a lot of statistical analyses of this - and I concur with the findings. In the first 25% to 33% of the game, sniper rifles have some significant advantages due to having a longer range. But by the time you get to Titan Valley, Silo 7 and especially California sniper rifles are inferior to Assault Rifles.
I think the game balance is just off in terms of weapons. Melee weapons and heavy weapons are inferior. For the last half of the game your Assault Rifles and melee person just rules.
Quote from: airboy on October 29, 2014, 03:49:18 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on October 29, 2014, 12:16:54 PM
Quote from: Rayfer on October 29, 2014, 11:04:05 AM
Late to the party on this one but I finally got around to it. Question....my sniper character seems worthless in the early battles. Is there a good way to build a sniper or are they just inherently weak? Comment...I like a lot about this game but the camera angles and limited view are annoying. I really wish you could see further out.
My sniper is amazing. Your hit chance goes down the closer you are to your target, with sniper rifles. But they do the highest amount of damage per shot at the longest distance, often killing enemies before they can come to grips with you. So all you need to do is position them the furthest away.
Give your sniper a good amount of extra Action Points in character creation, as those cost a bit more to fire than others and you may need to move them further away every turn before taking a shot.
All true - but holds for about the first third of the game. After that, the range advantage that snipers have goes away. After the mid-point of the game Assault Rifles can hit anything in line of sight and do more damage because they can fire multiple shots. The disadvantage for close range shots for sinper rifles is greater than that for Assault Rifles.
There have been a lot of statistical analyses of this - and I concur with the findings. In the first 25% to 33% of the game, sniper rifles have some significant advantages due to having a longer range. But by the time you get to Titan Valley, Silo 7 and especially California sniper rifles are inferior to Assault Rifles.
I think the game balance is just off in terms of weapons. Melee weapons and heavy weapons are inferior. For the last half of the game your Assault Rifles and melee person just rules.
I can see Assault Rifles being the most ideal. Except for ammo or money issues when you are burst firing all the time.
But melee? I didn't think it was worth a damn. Or do you have to pump someone's strength up at the expense of everything else to make it good?
Personally I don't care what the number crunchers say is the most optimal. If I want to system optimize I'll go play WoW or another MMO.
I'm at Damata now not sure how far overall that is. I've got both a sniper and a assault rifle, and after round one, assuming he doesn't move, my sniper usually has enough spare point to fire a second shot. Which coincidentally is the same as what my assault wielding scientist can do.
I was using melee early on when ammo was scarce. But after I had to stop fighting evil bunnies and mutated plants it became less effective, so I had him take up using energy weapons. Not sold on their effectiveness but at least hes not sharing ammo type with anyone else.
I have one character with pumped up strength who uses melee weapons. The character has multiple advantages:
a] The melee weapon damage is high throughout the game as you upgrade weaponry.
b] The high strength enables the character to be a "mule" and carry a lot of items.
c] The high strength also gives very high hit points. Since the melee guy is always in front looking for someone to punch, he gets a
disproportionate amount of enemy attacks. Which is all to the good since he is the most sturdy character.
My party is a:
a] High strength mule with melee, brute strength, melee and perception.
b] Two Assault Weapon characters with 10 IQ who max out a lot of skills
c] A leader with high charisma. He starts with Submachine guns and goes to energy weapons when I finally get the good energy
gun
My additional party members are:
a] Ralphy who I immediately start on assault weapons and keep building his toaster repair.
b] Rose who is my medic/surgeon/computer hacker person for most of the game. I don't build her handgun skills. Once I got
medic/surgeon/computer hacker high enough, Rose started to learn assault weapons.
c] Scotchmo who is my lockpicker. He uses a shotgun, but has never been a significant person in combat because he is so slow to
get an attack and because shotguns basically suck. But I have him as the lockpicker/safecracker and not as a combat guy.
Wasteland 2 is an unusual game because your 3 NPC slots are vital to filling out your party.
Quote from: Kushan on October 29, 2014, 07:11:47 PM
Personally I don't care what the number crunchers say is the most optimal. If I want to system optimize I'll go play WoW or another MMO.
Here, here. I avoid min-maxing in SP RPGs to focus on the characters. A sub-optimized party member can really add to the story in terms of overcoming difficulties and sometimes even dealing with failures. I'm ok with never achieving the "perfect" play-through. RPGs tend to be a de-stresser that I can just play, rather than have to think about.
Now, if the game balance is such that you simply can't progress without a min-maxed party, I totally get balance concerns. In my case I'll probably go play something else less likely to make me throw my keyboard across the room.
No idea if Wasteland falls into that trap, yet. I've been away from it for a few weeks and haven't made it far enough to find that out. So for now, my sniper is pretty badass! :)
[size=78%] [/size]
I've not min-max'd my party. But it's a well-rounded one.
Everyone is armed with a different firearm and I've never had an ammo issue. Especially with the 'picking skills on a couple. Despite starting with a Melee guy, I wasn't happy with his effectiveness compared to those with ranged weapons so I just pumped up his shotgun skills and use him to charge ahead for the cone blast when possible. Haven't missed using melee yet. :D
Twice now I've created a party, got a short way in (two level ups) then realized I could make a better party and so started over. I need to stop this and just keep one party going on into the story deeper regardless of some flaws and creation mistakes.
Quote from: Rayfer on October 30, 2014, 07:26:51 AM
Twice now I've created a party, got a short way in (two level ups) then realized I could make a better party and so started over. I need to stop this and just keep one party going on into the story deeper regardless of some flaws and creation mistakes.
I have the same problem in every RPG. Part of my general OCD. I started this game 3 times before I settled on my current party. I'm about 90% through the game at this point. Possible I could write a review this weekend.
My party is not maximized for combat. I want a good mix of skills, which is why I have two IQ 10 characters. Going to a 10 IQ will harm your combat effectiveness. Having a high charisma guy is essential for the leadership skill - which helps the entire party in combat at the expense of making your leader much weaker in combat.
Still, my party mix has worked out well. I can do pretty much everything excepting some dialog checks in the first third of the game. The game is not that difficult, nor is ammo scarce to the point where you have to maximize combat or have a weapon mix dependent on ammo shortages.
But this is just a game. Play how you like as long as you are having fun.
airboy....would enjoy reading your review, I hope you find time to get to it! What I am learning so far in this game is that it is a mistake to create an across the board average or good character in all categories. It's better to excel in a couple at the expense of a weakness in other areas. I don't think any character can be a master of all.
I just bought Wasteland 2 and frankly I'm a little intimidated by the Character Creation screen. Plenty of places out there that give advice on character builds but I don't like what I see.
Any suggestions for must-have skills or traits? I'm not looking for EXACT characterization, but if there's anything skill-wise or trait-wise you guys could suggest that would save me a headache down the line, I'd appreciate it.
For example - lots of places online seem to suggest dropping the Luck trait to 1 to use those points elsewhere. I don't like the idea of doing that but it may be my only choice.
IQ is what determines how many skill points you get when you level up so you might want to pump some points into that.
You'll get the opportunity to recruit a good NPC doctor fairly quickly so you really don't need to dump points into surgeon. This character is also quite skilled at computers so no need to dump points there either.
Surgery skill vs. field medic can seem a bit confusing at first. Basically, you can use medic skill at any time to heal damage points on any character provided you have some sort of aid kit in your inventory. Surgery is used for reviving party members who lose all their health so it's not quite as useful most of the time. Again, you'll need surgery kits in order to use the skill. Surgery is also useful for curing diseases and penalties caused by critical hits or environmental factors such as electricity.
Smart ass and hard ass come in useful more often than kiss ass, but all three are of use.
Shotguns and SMGs are great early on but in the later stages they're of limited value. Better to focus on any of the other weapons skills.
Lock-picking, demolitions, and brute force come in very handy in a lot of situations. Safe-cracking, alarm disabling, and mechanical repair are also useful but not as much as the first three.
My party started out like this:
-scout guy. Good awareness and co-ordination. Starting skills in shotgun, perception, and outdoorsman. If I were to do it again, I'd get rid of shotguns and change it to assault rifle.
-strong guy. Very good strength, medium speed. Starting skills in blunt weapons, demolitions, and SMGs. I'd lose SMGs and replace it with weapon-smithing or hard ass.
-sneaky sniper guy. Good co-ordination and intelligence. Starting skills in lock-picking, alarm disarming, mechanical repair, and sniper rifles. He's good as is.
-charisma girl. Good charisma and intelligence. Starting skills in kiss ass, smart ass, medic, and surgeon. I'd have dropped surgeon and added more into the other skills.
Thanks, SDR.
I know many have recommended that a party compliment each other, but the thing that gets me is when a party member goes down, so too do their skills, and therefore the party is vulnerable from that end. I hate to split up skills and not, say, have everyone good at something. I guess I'll just have to dive in, but I'll apply the recommendations you made.
A couple of things I like to do:
Surgery and Medic do different things. Medic will be used more often, but watching someone bleed to death because your surgeon is unconscious sucks. Give an additional character the surgeon skill, just a point or two, so if your primary healer is unconscious your backup can stop the bleeding on the surgeon and allow them to get back into the game. I usually have my surgeon (Rose) and medic have some crossover skills, just for those really brutal shootouts.
By midpoint in the game, most of my team has doubled up on their primary weapons. By that I mean my sniper has a second sniper rifle loaded and ready in case of a jam, my medic (who uses a shotgun) is armed with a double-barreled as backup, my assault riflemen have a second assault rifle, etc....the exception to this is the mechanic/jack of a few trades who has a submachine gun and energy weapons. So far this has served me well. I just got past the California intro so we'll see. I agree that assault rifles are the best weapon in the game, but ammo concerns means you must diversify. With my first team, everyone used a pistol as a backup but that proved useless very quickly.
My first game I ran without a tank. That didn't work out so well. Having an overstrength tank with melee skills and an attitude is pretty essential, imho. One of the NPC's (Chisel) fills this slot very well.
I've been so distracted with the Steam Holiday sale I haven't played Wasteland 2 in a couple of weeks. Think I'll need to remedy that asap!
Going the generalist route will land you in some tough spots once you reach California. I've run into a lot of situations where I needed a skill at level 7+ in order to be able to even attempt it and, in the cases where I didn't have the skill at a high enough level, I've had to spend time and ammo wandering the wastes just to gain enough XP via random encounters in order to come back and continue the story line.
Each of my team has had a specific function from the get go with NPC's filling in the gaps. When starting my second team, I took pen and paper and sketched out each character to ensure no vital skills were left out and no one was doubling up. Admittedly, knowing I was going to pick up Rose and Chisel helped me with my choices. The only exception to this (in my team) is the surgery skill. After you squeak out a narrow win against an opponent, only to have team members bleed to death because your only surgeon is among the unconscious....well, that's why God created saved games and reloads 8) Pretty much my only neglected area is in the conversation arena, it's either hardass or gunfights with my boys, lol.
Wow, the final fight is retardedly hard. I'm on my 4th attempt at it now.
I played for a bit a few nights ago. Got through the intro and started to make our way to that first tower and encountered bandits. The combat was quick and painless...well, painless for my characters. They were amazingly accurate, and that 'Ambush' function is great.
I'm afraid that's going to lull me into a false sense of security and I'll end up getting my butt kicked at some point.
We made it to the tower otherwise without incident and I enjoyed using the 'Smart Ass' skill on the dummy guarding the tower there...it was funny, him standing there repeating what I said and trying to figure it out. I saved and exited there. Hope to get more in this week.
I found the "bandits" thing extremely repetitive after a while.
Question - I guess I can figure this out when I fire it up next, but if you guys know - does the game automatically reload your weapons in between encounters, or will you have the same number of bullets you had when you finished the last one?
I honestly do not know the answer to that
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on January 05, 2015, 02:57:56 PM
Question - I guess I can figure this out when I fire it up next, but if you guys know - does the game automatically reload your weapons in between encounters, or will you have the same number of bullets you had when you finished the last one?
You have to reload.
One thing that bugs me is that if you have a fully loaded weapon in your secondary slot and swap it out for a grenade or some-such, it'll be unloaded when you re-equip it.
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on January 05, 2015, 03:37:02 PM
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on January 05, 2015, 02:57:56 PM
Question - I guess I can figure this out when I fire it up next, but if you guys know - does the game automatically reload your weapons in between encounters, or will you have the same number of bullets you had when you finished the last one?
You have to reload.
One thing that bugs me is that if you have a fully loaded weapon in your secondary slot and swap it out for a grenade or some-such, it'll be unloaded when you re-equip it.
Just be sure to hit the 'Group Select' button before pressing the 'Reload' one so everyone does it at the same time.
I've forgotten to do so in the correct order before and only ended up giving one character the reload command, not all of them. Could waste some AP in the next fight making up for it.
Also, before a firefight, flip the button so your group switches to their secondary weapons and reload them as well. For whatever reasons, secondary weapons are often empty unless this is done. It sucks to have your primary weapon jam, then switch to the backup only to discover it's empty. :P
Holy crap, why did I not know about this game until just now? I watched a YouTube video and it looks like a futuristic Jagged Alliance type game. Brilliant!
Yeah, I bought it during the Steam sale kind of on a whim, and I've been playing almost nothing else since. I really dig this game! O0
Finished it. It was a lot of fun. There are still some bugs that need to be ironed out but it was well worth the price. I did manage to break a few major quests by getting into areas and clearing them out before encountering the person or item that would trigger the mission's beginning but for the most part, I liked how the game gave you multiple possible solutions to each quest.
What did you think of the quest length in the end? Short, long, about right?
I'm still just making my way through the Prison, after the Ag Center and Highpool missions. Hard to get a read on just how much more I have awaiting me.
It was long but it never felt like a grind so I was quite pleased with the amount of play I got out of it. Depending on how many side missions and hoe much exploring you've done, I'd guess you're roughly a quarter of the way in yet, if that.
Long but No Grind is Good. Guess my plucky band of ragtag Rangers have their work cut out for them, then!
Stupid toad!
I hate those dynamite-lobbing s.o.b's most of all. bastards!
there's something about combat in this game that makes killing your enemies *very* satisfying. really like how they implemented the turn-based system. a lot of fun.