So just not limited to EU4, but in general to all Paradox games including CK2, and HOI3, etc.....
Pardon my frustration rant.....but based on the content and ideas of these games, these should be a perfect fit for me so I always purchase them right away...however, I never get too far with them since for some reason I have a huge mental block in grasping all of it and keeping control of things. So here I am looking at EU4 again (I already own, but looking at expansions) and wondering if I continue to make the same mistake or somehow figure things out. I have read countless AARs and watched many videos, but something just doesn't click with me or maybe I haven't found the right ones yet.
Not sure why I have such a difficult time but I think part of it is in how the game represents things in numbers versus maybe more obvious terms. Everything seems represented by some numerical value or modifier and is presented to you. The game certainly provides you all the information, but trying to make sense of it all seems difficult. For example, it tells me I have an "8" for diplomatic power but I have no idea whether that is good or bad. Why can't the game provide a more meaning description to the numbers so you can understand right away. Instead of telling me I have an "8", why not say it is "Bad, Good, or Excellent"? It tells me my production efficiency is 10%, is that good? Could it be better? I might be alone in this, but I think if they took some of the spreadsheet numbers out of the game (or at least made optional) and replaced with more meaningful descriptions, people like me might have a better idea how to play it.
If anybody has any tips or links to really good tutorials, please post them. Maybe I am just not looking in the right places.
I really want to figure this game out but in the end maybe I am just not good enough or these really aren't the games for me after all....
The Problem is to understand this Kind of games you Need endless hours of study.
My advice Keep your fingers of of such games, they are timestealer.
Let's play Crusader Kings 2 by Das24680 : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL71983E0A94A47DA0
Let's play Crusader Kings 2 Tutorial by Aruma : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLH-huzMEgGWBBUYoAjpLxFkbgFw19CeA_
Europa Universalis tutorials and guides by Arumba : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLH-huzMEgGWBz8XAD77YTwMe6wx-Ql_Ao
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 30, 2014, 08:22:01 AM
For example, it tells me I have an "8" for diplomatic power but I have no idea whether that is good or bad. Why can't the game provide a more meaning description to the numbers so you can understand right away. Instead of telling me I have an "8", why not say it is "Bad, Good, or Excellent"? It tells me my production efficiency is 10%, is that good? Could it be better? I might be alone in this, but I think if they took some of the spreadsheet numbers out of the game (or at least made optional) and replaced with more meaningful descriptions, people like me might have a better idea how to play it.
If anybody has any tips or links to really good tutorials, please post them. Maybe I am just not looking in the right places.
I really want to figure this game out but in the end maybe I am just not good enough or these really aren't the games for me after all....
You need to know precisely how many diplomatic power you have because diplomatic actions has diplomatic costs.
I think ideal production efficiency should be 100%. You should aim at improving it.
The beauty of the game are the numbers. All events in the game will lead to numbers increasing or decreasing.
You will definitely know the consequences of your actions instead of no or vague feedback.
You learn by just messing around. You will then eventually figure out the ins and outs of the game. Just check out the tool tips. Don't get discouraged.
Quote from: jomni on December 30, 2014, 08:48:22 AM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 30, 2014, 08:22:01 AM
For example, it tells me I have an "8" for diplomatic power but I have no idea whether that is good or bad. Why can't the game provide a more meaning description to the numbers so you can understand right away. Instead of telling me I have an "8", why not say it is "Bad, Good, or Excellent"? It tells me my production efficiency is 10%, is that good? Could it be better? I might be alone in this, but I think if they took some of the spreadsheet numbers out of the game (or at least made optional) and replaced with more meaningful descriptions, people like me might have a better idea how to play it.
If anybody has any tips or links to really good tutorials, please post them. Maybe I am just not looking in the right places.
I really want to figure this game out but in the end maybe I am just not good enough or these really aren't the games for me after all....
You need to know precisely how many diplomatic power you have because diplomatic actions has diplomatic costs.
I think ideal production efficiency should be 100%. You should aim at improving it.
The beauty of the game are the numbers. All events in the game will lead to numbers increasing or decreasing.
You will definitely know the consequences of your actions instead of no or vague feedback.
You learn by just messing around. You will then eventually figure out the ins and outs of the game. Just check out the tool tips. Don't get discouraged.
Those ratings were just two examples, it just seems like everything requires an interpretation of the numbers...and unless I am missing it, you have to look up on some wiki page or other source to really understand their impacts and meanings. Although I might see numbers increasing and decreasing, it still gives me pause in trying to understand their meaning. I know it will never happen, but maybe if they could combine the numbers with some kind of more descriptive meaning to correlate, maybe that would help better.
Again, likely just me since a ton of people play and enjoy the games...these games certainly have incredible options/depth, which I'll admit I don't always understand the terminology and references they make.
Quote from: Pete Dero on December 30, 2014, 08:37:42 AM
Let's play Crusader Kings 2 by Das24680 : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL71983E0A94A47DA0
Let's play Crusader Kings 2 Tutorial by Aruma : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLH-huzMEgGWBBUYoAjpLxFkbgFw19CeA_
Europa Universalis tutorials and guides by Arumba : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLH-huzMEgGWBz8XAD77YTwMe6wx-Ql_Ao
Thank you...I will check these out..
Quote from: Micha on December 30, 2014, 08:34:34 AM
The Problem is to understand this Kind of games you Need endless hours of study.
My advice Keep your fingers of of such games, they are timestealer.
That certainly might be my outcome if I can't figure things out:)
One of my biggest problems with figuring out Paradox games was looking for instant results. I would see my budget in the red, adjust the sliders and expect immediate changes. I had to get used to the idea of running in the red monthly but at the end of the year get an overall gain. Same thing with the ideas and techs. My advice is to just start playing and not worry too much about doing bad. Pick one goal and stick to it (like balancing you budget or increase your military, etc.). Watch the tutorial videos and AARs and ask questions on the forums.
See here: http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=9317.0 (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=9317.0)
This issue has been contemplated by many a great philosopher for years now.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on December 30, 2014, 09:28:13 AM
See here: http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=9317.0 (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=9317.0)
This issue has been contemplated by many a great philosopher for years now.
Thanks for that, forgot about that one...even looks like I had my same comments back then:) I'll review it again for a refresher...
Quote from: bbmike on December 30, 2014, 09:19:37 AM
One of my biggest problems with figuring out Paradox games was looking for instant results. I would see my budget in the red, adjust the sliders and expect immediate changes. I had to get used to the idea of running in the red monthly but at the end of the year get an overall gain. Same thing with the ideas and techs. My advice is to just start playing and not worry too much about doing bad. Pick one goal and stick to it (like balancing you budget or increase your military, etc.). Watch the tutorial videos and AARs and ask questions on the forums.
That's the part that I struggled with the most. It took years of frustration before the lightbulb came on and I realized that Paradox games are a marathon, not a sprint.
FWIW, and perhaps it's my Napoleonic bent, I found "March of the Eagles" to be the most accessible since EUII (which I sort of forced myself to love years ago). It drops a LOT of the economic extras in favor of a straight-up wargame that is a great deal of fun.
I will say, though, that, with these games, one must decide how deep down the system rabbit hole one wants to go. In MotE, I discovered that having different troop types in specific categories conferred decided advantages in combat...which I discovered only after having my backside handed to me by one army or another and going on-line to figure out why. This opacity has been diminished a bit in EUIV, but it continues nonetheless.
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
Quote from: tgb on December 30, 2014, 10:00:40 AM
Quote from: bbmike on December 30, 2014, 09:19:37 AM
One of my biggest problems with figuring out Paradox games was looking for instant results. I would see my budget in the red, adjust the sliders and expect immediate changes. I had to get used to the idea of running in the red monthly but at the end of the year get an overall gain. Same thing with the ideas and techs. My advice is to just start playing and not worry too much about doing bad. Pick one goal and stick to it (like balancing you budget or increase your military, etc.). Watch the tutorial videos and AARs and ask questions on the forums.
That's the part that I struggled with the most. It took years of frustration before the lightbulb came on and I realized that Paradox games are a marathon, not a sprint.
That is a good point...I think part of the problem is the fact it is real-time so it can take some time for things to happen (I know you can speed it up). And during that time, I always think I need to be doing something....maybe that is not the case and for periods of time I just need to let things unfold versus constantly doing stuff.
Has anyone tried to play and remain neutral and just do trading/diplomacy without war? Is that even possible? If it is possible, do you still find it entertaining? Part of me would like a chance to really just build up my world without having to constantly fight wars. Guessing at some point that might become boring....
Just starting to poke around with EU IV myself at the encouragement of some gaming buddies from an old clan I belonged to.
I did the tutorials but don't feel like I learned much. I did find this somewhat encouraging: http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/116887
His advice is to just get stuck in and mess around with it, try things out to see what happens. Not my normal method but may be what it takes in this case lol.
I also ran across these which go into more detail and thereby caused my eyes to glaze over:
http://www.eu4wiki.com/Beginner%27s_guide
http://guides.gamepressure.com/europauniversalisiv/guide.asp?ID=21613
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 30, 2014, 11:11:42 AM
Has anyone tried to play and remain neutral and just do trading/diplomacy without war? Is that even possible? If it is possible, do you still find it entertaining? Part of me would like a chance to really just build up my world without having to constantly fight wars. Guessing at some point that might become boring....
That's usually my play style as I find it a lot more interesting than warfare. My last game as Spain I absorbed/converted quite a bit of the New World without firing a shot. Of course, there is always one or two tribes that won't listen to reason and have to be put to the sword, but I only did that as a last resort.
Quote from: Bardolph on December 30, 2014, 12:34:42 PM
Just starting to poke around with EU IV myself at the encouragement of some gaming buddies from an old clan I belonged to.
I did the tutorials but don't feel like I learned much. I did find this somewhat encouraging: http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/116887
His advice is to just get stuck in and mess around with it, try things out to see what happens. Not my normal method but may be what it takes in this case lol.k
I also ran across these which go into more detail and thereby caused my eyes to glaze over:
http://www.eu4wiki.com/Beginner%27s_guide
http://guides.gamepressure.com/europauniversalisiv/guide.asp?ID=21613
Great article about getting started...that might be exactly what I needed to push me forward.
Quote from: tgb on December 30, 2014, 12:51:19 PM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 30, 2014, 11:11:42 AM
Has anyone tried to play and remain neutral and just do trading/diplomacy without war? Is that even possible? If it is possible, do you still find it entertaining? Part of me would like a chance to really just build up my world without having to constantly fight wars. Guessing at some point that might become boring....
That's usually my play style as I find it a lot more interesting than warfare. My last game as Spain I absorbed/converted quite a bit of the New World without firing a shot. Of course, there is always one or two tribes that won't listen to reason and have to be put to the sword, but I only did that as a last resort.
Very good to hear..appreciate you sharing your experience.
I think for the majority of us, achieving goals, up to and including winning, is the be all end all in a game. In EUIV especially, I have found that if you want to know what is going on, go in to a game with zero expectations and then follow what interests you. Do that repeatedly, and your observations and experiences will eventually give you the knowledge you need.
I have had the same exact issues with Paradox games, Grim. The most accessible for me has been CKII.
Quote from: Gusington on December 30, 2014, 03:00:42 PM
I have had the same exact issues with Paradox games, Grim. The most accessible for me has been CKII.
Odly. I can't get into CKII because "progress" is longer to develop than EUIV.
Results are less immediate and I was just aimlessly playing "marry my servants".
Quote from: jomni on December 30, 2014, 06:32:21 PM
Quote from: Gusington on December 30, 2014, 03:00:42 PM
I have had the same exact issues with Paradox games, Grim. The most accessible for me has been CKII.
Odly. I can't get into CKII because "progress" is longer to develop than EUIV.
Results are less immediate and I was just aimlessly playing "marry my servants".
CKII is the one Paradox game that I haven't been able to get into either. I"m not sure why and I'll eventually try it again.
Quote from: bbmike on December 30, 2014, 06:56:27 PM
Quote from: jomni on December 30, 2014, 06:32:21 PM
Quote from: Gusington on December 30, 2014, 03:00:42 PM
I have had the same exact issues with Paradox games, Grim. The most accessible for me has been CKII.
Odly. I can't get into CKII because "progress" is longer to develop than EUIV.
Results are less immediate and I was just aimlessly playing "marry my servants".
CKII is the one Paradox game that I haven't been able to get into either. I"m not sure why and I'll eventually try it again.
Funny thing for me too since I really like the material...I thought that one would click with me more but I got lost in all the terms and relationships....if I can figure out EU4, I'll eventually try CK2 again.
I definitely found it a good idea to start with a small nation out on the fringe somewhere and practice with that. Thus my Ethiopia AAR for World War 1 in HOI2 Darkest Hour, linked in the sig. Or my Last Nestorian King AAR (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=11461.0) when the Charlemagne DLC for CK2 was released. (Two quite different versions of the same overall engine of course, kind of similar area of the world though.)
I did end up buying all the expansions last night.....completed the tutorials so far. Certainly going to give this another try and see if I can get somewhere this time:) Thanks for all the useful information.
Hey Grim,
If you, or anyone else here, have any questions feel free to pm here or on Steam and I'll do my best to answer them.
I hope nobody minds me necroing this thread; it seems the best place for random questions for EU4.
I'm playing my first game and have just researched my way to being able to build marketplaces. The tooltip says a marketplace will increase trade power in the province by 50. What kind of impact does that translate to? Am I correct in thinking that increased trade power in a province means increased control over the trade node to which that province belongs, and thus extra income from collection or extra trade steered away, depending on what I have my merchant doing?
Quote from: Huw the Poo on October 20, 2015, 02:01:37 PM
Am I correct in thinking that increased trade power in a province means increased control over the trade node to which that province belongs, and thus extra income from collection or extra trade steered away, depending on what I have my merchant doing?
Spot on, I believe. You ideally want to own as many provinces in a trade node as possible, and enhance trade power by building structures like markets in them or sending merchant ships to patrol the node -- as you probably already knew.
Of course, you want to steer trade toward a node you have a lot of power in, not away. You want to retain as much trade power in that node as possible (i.e. you don't want merchants of other powers siphoning off that power by steering it 'downstream' to a node the have more power in.)
Excellent. Thanks sandman.
Very well! The peasants shall have their marketplace! Meanwhile I shall start looking into this embargo business...
which reminds me, I really need to get back into my Portugal campaign. (...I don't know how many Portugal campaigns I've started -- well over a dozen I'm sure -- and never gotten all that far in any of them. Portugal is the sweet spot for me -- not too powerful (unlike Castille or France), but a decent naval power with an ideal opportunity to colonize the New World...)
Yeah, Portugal seems to benefit from shitloads of coastal provinces and the potential early war with Morocco can win them a few more easily (he says, sagely, suddenly an expert on the game).
As Castille, which I think are a good choice for someone learning the game as they are definitely in a strong starting position, I've quickly come to regard Portugal as my main rival. They're matching me at the Sevilla trade node and in army size.
Oh, which reminds me of my next questions:
1. I've reached military level 5 which has opened some new units. Their benefits over the obsolete units are clear so I upgraded my armies straight away, and now I'm eyeing Aragon to the East where I have a couple of claims. Is there any way I can tell what kind of military technology they have, or more specifically (and usefully), what kind of units comprise their armies?
2. I came alarmingly close to bankruptcy after a recent war and noticed that I was spending a lot of ducats on army upkeep, which seemed to diminish once the army was back at full strength. My question is: does replenishing an army cost ducats as well as manpower?
On a related note, I am absolutely loving this game! It's such a shame that my experience with CK2 put me off for so long. EU4 doesn't just hit the sweet spot for me, it absolutely destroys it and sends it crying home to its mummy! Just the perfect level of complexity, fantastic interface which manages to be intuitive and informative all at once, exciting, surprising, amusing...it's an awesome game, surely Paradox's magnum opus.
Not sure about first question, Huw, but I believe that's correct about q2. I *think* that reinforcement puts strain on the Maintenance cost of your army, in addition to drawing down Manpower. You prob. already do this, but during peacetime I definitely keep my army upkeep slider at about 60%, and then have to remember to amp it up to 100% before I want to go to war. Always leave naval upkeep at 100% though if I'm playing a naval power -- and that can get expensive quick.
Agree EUIV is an absolutely superb game -- but for me, CKII still takes the crown (heh) as Pdox's masterpiece. The sheer novelty of the game -- and the way it so deftly manages some incredibly complex dynamics, e.g. dynastic succession and 'de jure' demenses -- never ceases to amaze me.
I can't wait for Hearts of Iron 4... and pray that a Victoria 3 is somewhere in Pdox's future plans.
Huws a cock - now i want to play EU IV again, goddammit
I have no doubt its a quality title that many enjoy but I have tried and just don't get it. After a while I feel like im just looking at spreadsheets and should be in accounting.
Quote from: sandman2575 on October 21, 2015, 09:42:59 AM
You prob. already do this, but during peacetime I definitely keep my army upkeep slider at about 60%, and then have to remember to amp it up to 100% before I want to go to war.
Yeah I did shove that slider down as soon as I saw how fast I was losing money! Thanks again for the tips mate. O0
QuoteI can't wait for Hearts of Iron 4... and pray that a Victoria 3 is somewhere in Pdox's future plans.
Yep I'm definitely in for HoI4. And I really, really hope they make a Victoria 3 as I haven't managed to play any game in that series yet.
Quote from: undercovergeek on October 21, 2015, 11:17:15 AM
Huws a cock - now i want to play EU IV again, goddammit
You want working on, boy!
Paradox just gave a freebie Unit DLC Pack to those with a Community/Login forum:
QuoteTo show our appreciation for having you as a member of the Paradox community, we've got a little something extra for you. As such, please accept Europa Universalis IV: Evangelical Majors Unit Pack as a minor token of our gratitude!
Notification via email with details.
Smart suggestive advertising, once again, because I directly went to check which EU4 & CK2 DLC I didn't have after activating this in Steam. Although I didn't buy any at the moment (don't plan on starting a new campaign yet), I did make sure to wishlist some for the near future.
Quote from: Nefaro on December 04, 2015, 10:06:06 AM
Paradox just gave a freebie Unit DLC Pack to those with a Community/Login forum:
QuoteTo show our appreciation for having you as a member of the Paradox community, we've got a little something extra for you. As such, please accept Europa Universalis IV: Evangelical Majors Unit Pack as a minor token of our gratitude!
Notification via email with details.
Smart suggestive advertising, once again, because I directly went to check which EU4 & CK2 DLC I didn't have after activating this in Steam. Although I didn't buy any at the moment (don't plan on starting a new campaign yet), I did make sure to wishlist some for the near future.
LOL! I did exactly the same thing.... I need a good sale though as I'm way behind on DLC....
Argh! Ok so now most everything I need to catch up is on sale for 66% off... the total comes to $55....
I've only just dabbled in EU IV. Loved EU III. I'd have a steep learning curve to catch up on all the new goodies... but it should be worth it... right... ???
So weak.... :P
I really want to learn this game so I can have a different addiction form Civ V...... :uglystupid2:
.... help.... :buck2:
It's best if you kind of think of it as an avocation. And just know in advance that sometimes you simply cannot find an answer to your question, no matter how many stones you turn over.
The difficulty in learning EU is that the manual is all but worthless: that's a product of how significantly the game changes as it gets patched. Unlike pretty much any other game I've played, EU has, on multiple occasions, undergone a patch of such significance that it is virtually a new game, and your old strategies don't work any more. Not because it was bugged, but because the forum and mods are always working to make the game better.
Yes, start with a small nation. Try to closely track everything you do, and note its effect. Your own trial and error will be one of your best learning tools.
There is a rich wiki, but use with care for the same reason that the manual probably shouldn't be used at all: this game changes radically from time to time, and some of the wiki gospel ain't gospel no more.
Really, the best source of info is the forum. Check out the stickies, search for keywords related to your questions, but more than anything, just always check out the forum every couple of days. New topics are ALWAYS popping up, because the forum remains insanely busy for such an old game. Don't just look for topics related to your question, but for anything that looks interesting or educational. This is where you will find the latest scoop on EU IV.
After you feel you are gaining competence, try a big nation but don't just wing it: find one of the approved strategies on the forum or wiki for how to begin with nation X, and do what it tells you to do. (Suggestion: there's a very cut-and-dried strategy for starting out with Great Britain, and if you play the Brits you'll learn the whole game, including exploration and colonization. Portugal or Spain are good starters for similar reasons, although they're a bit less isolated.) Figure out WHY you are doing these things you were told to do, and why it works, and pretty soon you will be able to try another big nation and kick butt using your own ideas. From that point, you can go for a medium-sized nation and try to do big things. Some of the top players like to start with one of those one-province city-states on the Rhine, or maybe take a Native American nation and just deal with the foreigners when they come - but that stuff is HARD!
I'm with Huw: when it comes to strategy games, this is THE game for me. I've been playing EU games since the original, but EU III was a big step up and so was EU IV. This is now a great game. Get all the expansions. Play all of it. Be patient, and learn.
I've read that the common sense doc really nerfed the ga,e in a major way and was a major step back? Is this true? Have the problems been addressed or patched?
The Common Sense DLC probably made the game easier for beginners to get a handle on, actually: now you can start with one or handful of counties somewhere and just stick with building those up without having to worry about trying to expand to continue competing in the game.
I just picked up Common Sense but probably won't start up EU4 again for awhile.
So do the new "building up" improvements still cost quite a bit, like other improvements used to?
Wouldn't seem too unbalancing if small nations still have to save up a lot longer for such things, compared to larger, more wealthy nations.
all province upgrades now have a straight monetary value, once researched you pay and build
Quote from: undercovergeek on December 23, 2015, 02:04:19 PM
all province upgrades now have a straight monetary value, once researched you pay and build
Actually, in addition to the monetary cost, they also have a monarch points (trade/admin/military) cost, which is an incentive to balance your builds. Especially for the upper-level buildings, the monarch points cost can be very high. And since monarch points are also what you pay for tech, ideas and some of the other cool stuff, it's a balancing act.
Yeah, the main problem (I gather) isn't the internal balance of making it work, but rather that the AI naturally starts trying to do it, too, which radically changes the dynamic of how the game as a whole develops.
The 'problem' being that it doesn't seem like EU4 anymore but a quite different game.
Quote from: JasonPratt on December 24, 2015, 12:36:54 PM
Yeah, the main problem (I gather) isn't the internal balance of making it work, but rather that the AI naturally starts trying to do it, too, which radically changes the dynamic of how the game as a whole develops.
Just glad the AI
can do it.
The AI in EU3 was crap & would almost never upgrade it's buildings & fortifications. One of the many frustrations of the predecessor which look to have been resolved with EU4.
Recent EU4 Tutorial series by Quill
Full YouTube playlist link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaLP7m_g5Q4&list=PLs3acGYgI1-uWvHEhlIvx-vzsX0vhMOZj&index=1
I am not falling for the trap:) Every time I see this thread and others surface again, I get the desire to play but just end up getting lost again...not falling for it this time:)
I always fall for it then smash my monitor in.
You guys make EUIV sound like its WitP complexity. Its not THAT hard to learn ;)
Kushan's right.
EU4, and all the other such Pdox games, are very formulaic.
The mechanics, locations, characters, etc are all directly tied to number values. Tooltips explain what they do. :)
It never clicked with me, what can I say?
For some reason I just can't grasp Crusader Kings 2, but EU4 is no problem at all. It was definitely easier to learn than I thought it would be.
Quote from: Huw the Poo on April 08, 2016, 06:53:50 PM
For some reason I just can't grasp Crusader Kings 2, but EU4 is no problem at all. It was definitely easier to learn than I thought it would be.
+1, me too.