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IRL (In Real Life) => General Discussion => Topic started by: endfire79 on January 15, 2015, 12:16:40 PM

Title: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: endfire79 on January 15, 2015, 12:16:40 PM
Ok, putting this one here and... set criticism for stun, not kill :)


http://io9.com/top-10-biggest-design-flaws-in-the-u-s-s-enterprise-1678274241 (http://io9.com/top-10-biggest-design-flaws-in-the-u-s-s-enterprise-1678274241)


(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.kinja-img.com%2Fgawker-media%2Fimage%2Fupload%2Fs--K1nTtiFA--%2Fc_fit%2Cfl_progressive%2Cq_80%2Cw_636%2Fqzkkriqznnrdyr01pwrl.jpg&hash=b6415dd4a1c8f6ba93b2c5eb5eee7e1c81edd29b)


Star Trek broke new ground by having a spaceship without fins and rockets, and by consulting with the RAND Corp. on its design. And the Enterprise is indeed a beauty. But the Federation's coolest starship isn't flawless, by any means. Here are the 10 biggest design flaws in the U.S.S. Enterprise.


Note: This article mostly deals with the original Enterprise, from Star Trek: The Original Series. We do dip into the Enterprise-D, from The Next Generation, a few times. We consulted with a couple of Treksperts just to supplement our Trek knowledge.
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: GDS_Starfury on January 15, 2015, 12:21:07 PM
Ive really never been a huge fan of the overall design layout.
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: LongBlade on January 15, 2015, 12:23:31 PM
1) Fun read.

2) Who cares what Star thinks?

3) Give me a Romulan Warbird any day.
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: Centurion40 on January 15, 2015, 12:26:08 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on January 15, 2015, 12:23:31 PM
1) Fun read.

2) Who cares what Star thinks?

3) Give me a Romulan Warbird any day.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages-cdn.perfectworld.com%2Fwww%2Fpictures%2F1364576893209.jpg&hash=1523f5909a35b7b42a757494f129817695132dc2)
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: LongBlade on January 15, 2015, 12:27:32 PM
I'm partial to the old school, though that is one sexy ship, too.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffc04.deviantart.net%2Ffs71%2Ff%2F2014%2F320%2Fb%2Fe%2Fstar_trek_tos___romulan_v_8_warbird__sfb__by_remandel-d86obyn.png&hash=8555de79a05c350d251a56737ba296c648b572a2)
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: airboy on January 15, 2015, 12:56:18 PM
The list missed the easiest flaw to correct.  Every single scale on the sensors is tiny.  Really, how often is something "off the scale" from the sensors.  How big are those scales?  Do they run from say, .5 to maybe .7?

Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: bbmike on January 15, 2015, 01:02:28 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on January 15, 2015, 12:23:31 PM
1) Fun read.

2) Who cares what Star thinks?

3) Give me a Romulan Warbird any day.

Yeah, he probably thinks that stupid looking Firefly ship looks cool.  ::)
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: GDS_Starfury on January 15, 2015, 01:20:17 PM
nope.  from an industrial design standpoint its silly.
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: Centurion40 on January 15, 2015, 01:22:55 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on January 15, 2015, 12:27:32 PM
I'm partial to the old school, though that is one sexy ship, too.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffc04.deviantart.net%2Ffs71%2Ff%2F2014%2F320%2Fb%2Fe%2Fstar_trek_tos___romulan_v_8_warbird__sfb__by_remandel-d86obyn.png&hash=8555de79a05c350d251a56737ba296c648b572a2)

Is this not a Bird of Prey?
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: endfire79 on January 15, 2015, 01:34:27 PM
She is one well-endowed lady. I'd like to get my hands on her "ample nacelles," if you pardon the engineering parlance.  :)
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: LongBlade on January 15, 2015, 05:02:35 PM
Quote from: Centurion40 on January 15, 2015, 01:22:55 PM
Is this not a Bird of Prey?

Honestly I'm not 100% sure. I'd have to dig out my Star Fleet Battles gear to get you a precise definition.

Suffice it to say that in TOS there are a variety of sizes and ship names which all bear the same general silhouette. Some are cruiser class, some destroyer, etc, but other than size they share the same outline.

There are exceptions - the Romulans do employ some old Klingon D7s, as well as having their own distinctive dreadnought which does not follow this outline.





OK, fine.

King Eagle, War Eagle, Snipe are how they're classified. I think "Bird of Prey" may be the Federation's general term for them, but I could be wrong. Here's a comprehensive list - probably better defined by Amarillo Design Bureau than any official codex.

http://www.starfleetgames.com/federation/Commanders%20Circle/romulanships.shtml
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: bbmike on January 15, 2015, 05:12:12 PM
It's a War Eagle. Where is Martok when you need him?  ::)
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: bbmike on January 15, 2015, 05:40:33 PM
Looking at the script for "Balance of Terror" (yes, I'm a TOS geek) there is only one reference to 'bird of prey':

STILES: You'll know, sir. They're painted like a giant bird-of-prey.

That's not a classification of the ship in my mind. TNG established BoP as a class, I think. I'm sticking with my SFB education. That's a War Eagle.
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: LongBlade on January 15, 2015, 05:44:13 PM
Quote from: bbmike on January 15, 2015, 05:40:33 PM
Looking at the script for "Balance of Terror" (yes, I'm a TOS geek) there is only one reference to 'bird of prey':

STILES: You'll know, sir. They're painted like a giant bird-of-prey.

That's not a classification of the ship in my mind. TNG established BoP as a class, I think. I'm sticking with my SFB education. That's a War Eagle.

Ha!

Awesome. Thanks for the assist :)
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: endfire79 on January 16, 2015, 08:50:15 AM
In star fleet command that ship ship was a pain to maneuver, although you had type R plasmas and nuclear mines
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: LongBlade on January 16, 2015, 10:31:38 AM
Quote from: endfire79 on January 16, 2015, 08:50:15 AM
In star fleet command that ship ship was a pain to maneuver, although you had type R plasmas and nuclear mines

I've only played Federation Commander a few times. That plasma scares the socks off of people, but I have yet to see it make contact. I think it's probably best used in conjunction with other ships (we played one-on-one) to maneuver them in such a way that the target vessel can't outrun/flee.
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: endfire79 on January 16, 2015, 10:58:10 AM
Danger close [emoji6]

Thanks I had not heard of that card game.  My regular buddies aren't trekkie boardgamers unfortunately.
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 16, 2015, 12:21:15 PM
#7 is technically not true (bridge is easily cut off), because there was access to the Bridge other than the turbolift. IIRC it was in an unseen space that ran all the way around the bridge.

Found it (see #20) - http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/constitution/constitution-15.jpg

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cygnus-x1.net%2Flinks%2Flcars%2Fblueprints%2Fconstitution%2Fconstitution-15.jpg&hash=dbfcd0a9804f9a28dd730cb96be26ec174978b81)

I had a set of Constitution-class blueprints that I got in 1975 or so (you can see it here: http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Blueprints-Enterprise-Constitution/dp/B001RJ9RHU). I can't remember what I did with it though.
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: LongBlade on January 16, 2015, 12:27:18 PM
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on January 16, 2015, 12:21:15 PM
I had a set of Constitution-class blueprints that I got in 1975 or so (you can see it here: http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Blueprints-Enterprise-Constitution/dp/B001RJ9RHU). I can't remember what I did with it though.

I still have mine ;)
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: GDS_Starfury on January 16, 2015, 12:28:23 PM
The Miranda, NX, Defiant and Voyager classes make much more sense in overall design.
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: GDS_Starfury on January 16, 2015, 12:29:52 PM
And whe LB may want to mock me I'm the only one here thats built space from the keel up.  So pffft  :buck2:
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: LongBlade on January 16, 2015, 12:36:51 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on January 16, 2015, 12:29:52 PM
And whe LB may want to mock me I'm the only one here thats built space from the keel up.  So pffft  :buck2:

Mock you? Moi?
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: LongBlade on January 16, 2015, 12:37:50 PM
Actually, I wish you and I could get together for some starship projects. I'm pretty much all thumbs when it comes to artistic ability, but I'd love the opportunity to go through the process with ya.
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: GDS_Starfury on January 16, 2015, 01:01:14 PM
Check out Resinilluminati.com  lots of scratch builds there.  It can be a mind numbing process of sketching, cutting, getting cuy and digging through the parts boxes.  Fyi super soaker type water guns are great starting points for starships.
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: LongBlade on January 16, 2015, 01:18:17 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on January 16, 2015, 01:01:14 PM
Check out Resinilluminati.com  lots of scratch builds there. 

Those are so far beyond my skill level that I struggle to wrap my head around them.
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: endfire79 on January 16, 2015, 01:20:47 PM
Super soakers? Hadn't thought of that.  I still don't get it, enlighten me Star
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: GDS_Starfury on January 16, 2015, 01:47:41 PM
Im on my phone so cant link pictures but if you take a typical super soaker rifle, flip it upside down, add some hull plating, engines and whatnot you end up with an Aliens Sulico type ship.
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: endfire79 on January 16, 2015, 03:50:20 PM
Yes now I see it.
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: Martok on January 20, 2015, 11:19:01 AM
Can't really argue with most of the design flaws noted in the article.  The bridge's vulnerability has always been especially/laughably obvious.  For that matter, most Trek ships -- Federation vessels in particular, but even most of the other major powers' vessels as well -- seem to have their bridges located such that they're just daring the enemy to shoot out the entire command crew.  ::) 

The Enterprise is still one of the coolest ships ever, though.  :smitten: 




Quote from: bbmike on January 15, 2015, 05:12:12 PM
It's a War Eagle. Where is Martok when you need him?  ::)
LOL.  I appreciate the implied compliment regarding my Star Trek knowledge, bbmike; thanks! 

In truth, though, LongBlade, you, and (I strongly suspect) at least a few others here are going to have a far better idea on this one than myself.  My knowledge of TOS has always been incomplete at best; I have more expertise where the movies, TNG, and DS9 are concerned.  :) 

Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: mirth on January 20, 2015, 11:38:36 AM
Quote from: LongBlade on January 15, 2015, 05:02:35 PM
Quote from: Centurion40 on January 15, 2015, 01:22:55 PM
Is this not a Bird of Prey?

Honestly I'm not 100% sure. I'd have to dig out my Star Fleet Battles gear to get you a precise definition.

Suffice it to say that in TOS there are a variety of sizes and ship names which all bear the same general silhouette. Some are cruiser class, some destroyer, etc, but other than size they share the same outline.

There are exceptions - the Romulans do employ some old Klingon D7s, as well as having their own distinctive dreadnought which does not follow this outline.





OK, fine.

King Eagle, War Eagle, Snipe are how they're classified. I think "Bird of Prey" may be the Federation's general term for them, but I could be wrong. Here's a comprehensive list - probably better defined by Amarillo Design Bureau than any official codex.

http://www.starfleetgames.com/federation/Commanders%20Circle/romulanships.shtml (http://www.starfleetgames.com/federation/Commanders%20Circle/romulanships.shtml)



Standard Romulan V-8 Bird of Prey. http://home.comcast.net/~ststcsolda/romulans/V-8/V-8.html (http://home.comcast.net/~ststcsolda/romulans/V-8/V-8.html)


I need to dig out all my old FASA stuff. STSCS was a fun game.
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 20, 2015, 11:51:48 AM
I remember when I was a wee lad, maybe 6th grade, we were visiting friends of the family in Pennsylvania and I found a hobby store and had a choice between the Top Secret RPG or the Klingon D-7 Battlecruiser deck plans. The TS RPG kept me highly occupied that summer but I'd always wished I got the D-7 plans.
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: GDS_Starfury on January 20, 2015, 11:59:55 AM
You can still get them you know.
Title: Re: Top 10 biggest design flaws of the USS Enterprise (Trek)
Post by: bbmike on January 20, 2015, 12:01:55 PM
Quote from: mirth on January 20, 2015, 11:38:36 AM

Standard Romulan V-8 Bird of Prey. http://home.comcast.net/~ststcsolda/romulans/V-8/V-8.html (http://home.comcast.net/~ststcsolda/romulans/V-8/V-8.html)

I need to dig out all my old FASA stuff. STSCS was a fun game.


Hmm, FASA. That's post Amarillo Design Bureau which used Franz Joseph's TOS Star Fleet Technical Manual. I'm sticking with War Eagle.  :P
I did play quite a bit of FASA's Star Trek RPG in the way back. I've heard good things about their combat simulator but never got around to trying it.