Not sure how many folks around here are looking forward to HoI4 -- I for one can't wait (...in theory). But I am increasingly puzzled by Pdox's lackluster promotion of what is supposed to be one of their biggest franchises, that's supposed to release in Q2 2015 (4-5 months, give or take).
Does anyone else get the sense that Pdox's push for this game has been somewhat less than enthusiastic? It seems nothing like the buildup that preceded launch of Europa Universalis IV. There seemed to be huge energy behind that -- ample dev diaries, lots of sneak peeks offered to the community -- just a palpable sense of excitement on the part of the devs and community alike.
HOI4 feels nothing like this to me. Dev diaries have been sparse. Screenshots few and far between. About one known video of Alpha gameplay, which was hardly extensive. The whole thing just strikes me as increasingly odd.
Yes, they've still got some months to go -- but they announced HoI4 in Jan. 2014... and the energy level has been weirdly lacking...
I honestly can't say I have been following it. Would I buy it when it came out? Probably. Would I play it? Probably not ;)
Remember your New Year's resolution, JD! Be strong!
Seriously though -- check out Pdox's forums mainpage -- there's oodles and oodles about EUIV and CKII, and a single post about HOI4 (about its delay, in fact). It's been this way for months. It just seems like EUIV and CKII are way higher on Pdox's priority list, at least as far as marketing and PR are concerned --
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/ (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/)
But hasn't HoI always been a bit of a poison chalice for Paradox? I mean they always ALWAYS seem to get a lot of stick for it...any release but most notably HoI3 iirc.
Maybe they're just being cautious
Maybe the series has come to it's end and people becoming a little jaded...
CK2 and EUIV I think have become their main products now I reckon..esp CK2.
I don't get what others see in CK2...I really don't. Bland and very little "going on" - and I guess the "going on" is subjective.
EUIV on the other hand is a superbly deep game that doesn't get nearly enough attention from me.
And I really like HoI2 - actually got going on a campaign (though never finished it...shocker)...but I did like it. HoI3 looked very washed and bland. I did not like the interface at all.
I will most likely buy Hearts of Iron IV. But due to Paradox's infatuation with DLC, I won't be buying HoI4 until after it has been out for awhile and a compilation pack goes on sale with the base game and all its DLC for at least 50% off.
It's probably true that Pdox catches a lot more flack for HoI than its other games. CKII seems universally beloved (understandably -- I think it's their best game to date); EUIV seems well beloved, with grumbling from vocal minorities about how each new patch unbalances something and makes the game 'unplayable' ::) But clearly, between the positive response to CKII and EUIV, Pdox has built up a reservoir of good feelings after the extremely bumpy launch (debacle?) of HoI3. HoI3 became a very good game with the expansions, but the initial response was justifiably negative.
Still, in light of that, I'd think Pdox would be trying all the harder to gin up excitement for HoI4. The fact that they're not leads me to suspect the game's development is not going smoothly. The push-back for the launch is surely part of that.
EDIT -- I see from JD that CKII is not, in fact, universally beloved :)
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 05, 2015, 01:19:53 PM
...EDIT -- I see from JD that CKII is not, in fact, universally beloved :)
Yeah - I don't get it. I seem to be one of the few!
On a personal level, I'm really excited for HoI4 because it's going to support Linux so I'll actually be able to play it. :D
With regard to the original question, I dunno, 4-5 months is nearly half a year. I would expect the marketing machine to ramp up in 6-8 weeks.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on February 05, 2015, 01:27:47 PM
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 05, 2015, 01:19:53 PM
...EDIT -- I see from JD that CKII is not, in fact, universally beloved :)
Yeah - I don't get it. I seem to be one of the few!
It's not just you. I keep trying to play it and buying more DLC but I just cannot get into it. Nothing really interesting ever seems to happen. You get your economy or military rolling, then someone or another snuffs it, everything gets screwed up and you're back to square one. Then you spend the next two hours running the game at max time compression, hiring tutors, looking for stat boosting brides, reading pointless pop up boxes, and hoping your idiot council members actually succeed in their assigned task.
I think all Pdox games have this problem, to greater or lesser degree -- the 'OK nothing is happening now what the hell am I supposed to do next' experience. They're so open-ended that the onus is really on the player to direct events & 'forge your own destiny' rather than respond to random happenings (although there's no shortage of that as well).
I tend to avoid Pdox games entirely if I'm not mentally geared up for a game. They're mentally demanding, not in the sense that they're especially hard to play, but in the sense that you've got to be feeling creative in order to get fun out of them.
HoI4 They've been ambitious and had to roll back the date. I'm not concerned because A. it's one of their flagship titles; and B. They have made a real focus on release quality in recent times and regularly re-state this commitment. Even cancelling 3rd party titles because of it.
EUIV is great.
CK2. I've struggle to get into it. Have started to get into it after watching Game of Throne left me pumped for that sort of period, but still think I'll drift back to EU4.
Don't forget Victoria 2, it's very good.
Edited- I'd love to see them do a modern; Cold War or Rome game next.
Quote from: fabius on February 05, 2015, 02:17:38 PM
Edited- I'd love to see them do a modern; Cold War or Rome game next.
They were doing a cold war game and it got cancelled.
Also, they've done Rome before, and although it was an ok game, I agree, it could be wonderful if they gave it the EUIV/CKII treatment.
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 05, 2015, 01:01:49 PM
Remember your New Year's resolution, JD! Be strong!
Easy enough to do in this case: they won't have it feasibly patched and DLC'd up until sometime next year. :)
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 05, 2015, 02:12:16 PM
I think all Pdox games have this problem, to greater or lesser degree -- the 'OK nothing is happening now what the hell am I supposed to do next' experience. They're so open-ended that the onus is really on the player to direct events & 'forge your own destiny' rather than respond to random happenings (although there's no shortage of that as well).
I tend to avoid Pdox games entirely if I'm not mentally geared up for a game. They're mentally demanding, not in the sense that they're especially hard to play, but in the sense that you've got to be feeling creative in order to get fun out of them.
I don't really have that issue with HOI III or Vicky II. I guess I'm more interested in events than people. I barely know what the people in my real life are up to. I guess it shouldn't be a surprise that I take no interest in the comings and goings of little medieval twits on my computer screen. I just want my damned castle built.
For me, the stretch from 1936 to '39/'40 in HoI3 was always a painfully boring, just amassing of resources, building up the army, and being constantly interrupted by "your research in X is done!" messages. Not so much a "have no idea what to do next" problem but definitely a "jesus can we just be done with all this prologue and get to the fightin'?"
I love Vicky II but maybe even more than Pdox's other games, this sometimes felt to me like the game was playing itself -- especially if you are a capitalist country and your capitalists are on auto-pilot building whatever factories they want (even--or especially--when their choices made zero sense).
So no one else senses a certain lack of energy and excitement in Pdox's HoI4 'pr campaign'?
Maybe it's all subjective -- but it just feels night and day compared to the ramp-up to EUIV, even with several months to go --
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 05, 2015, 02:46:47 PM
So no one else senses a certain lack of energy and excitement in Pdox's HoI4 'pr campaign'?
Maybe it's all subjective -- but it just feels night and day compared to the ramp-up to EUIV, even with several months to go --
Not really, a combination of pushing things back, and being ambitious so they wont announce stuff until certain it going to working ups to a standard and in.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 05, 2015, 02:23:09 PM
Quote from: fabius on February 05, 2015, 02:17:38 PM
Edited- I'd love to see them do a modern; Cold War or Rome game next.
They were doing a cold war game and it got cancelled.
Also, they've done Rome before, and although it was an ok game, I agree, it could be wonderful if they gave it the EUIV/CKII treatment.
Sort of. They really was some modders given money and for periods staff support. They could not hit the targets despite being given an extension so it was cancelled.
That said, it and a 3rd party tittle published by them showed P'dox the interest in a game set in the period. And just speculation but I reckon the Cold War is on their radar now. To me many changes in the direction of HoI 4 leaves it open to a Cold War expansion or whole game based on or lessons learned from HoI4. For example 4 is more sandbox; the tech tree clearly has space after their last post war tech...
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 05, 2015, 01:01:49 PM
Remember your New Year's resolution, JD! Be strong!
Seriously though -- check out Pdox's forums mainpage -- there's oodles and oodles about EUIV and CKII, and a single post about HOI4 (about its delay, in fact). It's been this way for months. It just seems like EUIV and CKII are way higher on Pdox's priority list, at least as far as marketing and PR are concerned --
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/ (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/)
Already broken (Combat Mission:Black Sea) and I don't believe in "damage limitation" >:D
well, if you were going to break it, JD, you picked a great game at least --
fabius -- hope you're right --
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 05, 2015, 03:10:01 PM
well, if you were going to break it, JD, you picked a great game at least --
fabius -- hope you're right --
Me too !!! It's on my 1st day buy list for 2015.
That said, that they previously did stop 3rd party and one of their in house projects because of slow development in the past is reassuring. Plus the Run master or whatever that game was, staff have now augmented the HoI 4 Team.
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 05, 2015, 02:34:37 PM
For me, the stretch from 1936 to '39/'40 in HoI3 was always a painfully boring, just amassing of resources, building up the army, and being constantly interrupted by "your research in X is done!" messages. Not so much a "have no idea what to do next" problem but definitely a "jesus can we just be done with all this prologue and get to the fightin'?"
Maybe, but this is a crucial time for any game, especially when playing as an axis country. The decisions you make in terms of building your military, economy and infrastructure, as well as the paths you choose in technology research, usually spell the difference between ultimate victory or defeat. I think the game is usually won or lost before the war even starts.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 05, 2015, 03:21:07 PM
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 05, 2015, 02:34:37 PM
For me, the stretch from 1936 to '39/'40 in HoI3 was always a painfully boring, just amassing of resources, building up the army, and being constantly interrupted by "your research in X is done!" messages. Not so much a "have no idea what to do next" problem but definitely a "jesus can we just be done with all this prologue and get to the fightin'?"
Maybe, but this is a crucial time for any game, especially when playing as an axis country. The decisions you make in terms of building your military, economy and infrastructure, as well as the paths you choose in technology research, usually spell the difference between ultimate victory or defeat. I think the game is usually won or lost before the war even starts.
indeed, particularly if youre going to break with tradition
I enjoy the pre-conflict build up portion of the game. It let's me begin shaping the nation to reflect my overall strategy. The only tedious part for me is going through and reorganizing my force structures. That's painful.
Buildup to war is indeed crucial, which is why I felt I could never skip it by starting the campaign in '39. Really no choice but to go with the '36 Grand Campaign. But the prewar years were always way more tedious than fun for me...
Quote from: JudgeDredd on February 05, 2015, 01:03:32 PM
But hasn't HoI always been a bit of a poison chalice for Paradox? I mean they always ALWAYS seem to get a lot of stick for it...any release but most notably HoI3 iirc.
Yep.
Despite CK2 and EU4 being big improvements over previous releases, I think the HOI series has the most potential to be a disappointment at release. The earlier versions were a mess through much of their span.
Had some joy playing EU, CKII just sends me to sleep waiting for something to happen. It reminds me of lessons with the worst teachers I had, no excitement and a slow droning noise coming from the front of the class. HOI I have really enjoyed 2 more than 3 but I still put many hours in 3.
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 05, 2015, 12:26:22 PM
I am increasingly puzzled by Pdox's lackluster promotion of what is supposed to be one of their biggest franchises, that's supposed to release in Q2 2015 (4-5 months, give or take).
Does anyone else get the sense that Pdox's push for this game has been somewhat less than enthusiastic? It seems nothing like the buildup that preceded launch of Europa Universalis IV. There seemed to be huge energy behind that -- ample dev diaries, lots of sneak peeks offered to the community -- just a palpable sense of excitement on the part of the devs and community alike.
HOI4 feels nothing like this to me. Dev diaries have been sparse. Screenshots few and far between. About one known video of Alpha gameplay, which was hardly extensive. The whole thing just strikes me as increasingly odd.
Yes, they've still got some months to go -- but they announced HoI4 in Jan. 2014... and the energy level has been weirdly lacking...
I think it's reasonable to assume they are underplaying the hype, erring on the side of caution because of what happened with Hearts of Iron III last time. The HOI 3 release was a disaster.
On release the game was literally unplayable for a majority and those who could play found it full of serious graphical and mechanical bugs. The general response was overwhelming disappointment and the forum backlash was pretty bad. Paradox staff even received death threats.
We've already seen the game's release postponed from this quarter so I'm betting that it's low-key for this reason. They want to avoid another crapstorm and, as we know, this game's fan base generally is pretty fanatical so they are deliberately under-hyping it. A prudent strategy IMO.
Quote from: Greybriar on February 05, 2015, 01:19:09 PM
I will most likely buy Hearts of Iron IV. But due to Paradox's infatuation with DLC, I won't be buying HoI4 until after it has been out for awhile and a compilation pack goes on sale with the base game and all its DLC for at least 50% off.
This is going to be my strategy for getting this game as well. If I even think it's worth getting after seeing all the 'Let's play' videos on the game once it's released.
Quote from: Ian C on February 06, 2015, 09:22:31 AM
I think it's reasonable to assume they are underplaying the hype, erring on the side of caution because of what happened with Hearts of Iron III last time. The HOI 3 release was a disaster.
On release the game was literally unplayable for a majority and those who could play found it full of serious graphical and mechanical bugs. The general response was overwhelming disappointment and the forum backlash was pretty bad. Paradox staff even received death threats.
We've already seen the game's release postponed from this quarter so I'm betting that it's low-key for this reason. They want to avoid another crapstorm and, as we know, this game's fan base generally is pretty fanatical so they are deliberately under-hyping it. A prudent strategy IMO.
This was my thinking as well. Given the disappointment with HoI3's initial release, it only makes sense Paradox would want to be careful to avoid over-hype this time around.
I picked up HOI3 a year or so ago during a Gamersgate sale.
Is it worth the trouble of installing it ?
(I wasn't planning on getting around to looking at it until the leaves fall).
If you got all the expansions included (Semper Fi etc.) then definitely Yes. HoI3 turned into a very good game after its difficult birth. The best in the series, in my opinion.
I still don't agree that Pdox should be 'soft pedaling' expectations for HoI4. If they stand behind it with the same confidence they have in CKII and EUIV, they should be aggressively promoting it. The fact that they're not suggests to me that they have some doubts about how it's turning out...
Quote from: Philippe on February 14, 2015, 05:06:18 PM
I picked up HOI3 a year or so ago during a Gamersgate sale.
Is it worth the trouble of installing it ?
(I wasn't planning on getting around to looking at it until the leaves fall).
You also may want to install the Total Realism Project mod.
Quote from: Greybriar on February 05, 2015, 01:19:09 PM
I will most likely buy Hearts of Iron IV. But due to Paradox's infatuation with DLC, I won't be buying HoI4 until after it has been out for awhile and a compilation pack goes on sale with the base game and all its DLC for at least 50% off.
I tend to agree. I use Gamersgate Blue coins to buy new DLC, unless it's in a sale, or Steam sale. As a gamer I'm not a fan of dlc as a concept, as I prefer having a "full" game, although I see why companies do it, and it's part of the gaming landscape now.
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 14, 2015, 05:12:49 PM
If you got all the expansions included (Semper Fi etc.) then definitely Yes. HoI3 turned into a very good game after its difficult birth. The best in the series, in my opinion.
I still don't agree that Pdox should be 'soft pedaling' expectations for HoI4. If they stand behind it with the same confidence they have in CKII and EUIV, they should be aggressively promoting it. The fact that they're not suggests to me that they have some doubts about how it's turning out...
I'm kind of surprised too. Last summer (August IIRC) they were pushing it to the press at the 2014 Koln Games convention...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5HM0M8j310 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxGNpPz_W2A
It's a pity as it looks quite a good game, and although I like HOI2 (and am still "adjusting to" HOI3 (read learning curve)) it seems a very "new" take on the franchise, which is good.
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 14, 2015, 05:12:49 PM
The fact that they're not suggests to me that they have some doubts about how it's turning out...
It has been one of their most troubled series IMO. Maybe there have been some extra delays and they're waiting until closer to release before running the hype?
To be fair, they are showing plenty to those who are seeking it, and they've concentrated it all in their own forum where it can be easily found. As for outside marketing, the game isn't likely to ship until June so maybe it is a bit early for a niche game?
Quote from: Huw the Poo on February 15, 2015, 04:23:03 PM
To be fair, they are showing plenty to those who are seeking it, and they've concentrated it all in their own forum where it can be easily found. As for outside marketing, the game isn't likely to ship until June so maybe it is a bit early for a niche game?
The other thing to be fair is that they have delayed to get it right, both mechanic/gameplay and quality. That's the right thing to do. At Friday's livestream a dev said it's a flagship game so they'd delay further if needed. Fare better to release polished game than broken.
I'm all for getting the game right for opening day, believe me. But it's been a long time since the bad ol' days of the HoI3 launch. In the meantime, Pdox has had tremendous successes with launches of both CKII and EU4, and seems to me those are the benchmarks that Pdox knows they'll have to live up to with HoI4.
In short, I don't think there's any real danger HoI4's launch will be a repeat of the HoI3 debacle. But I don't see that setting a high standard for the game at release is in any way at odds with trying to generate a big head of steam in advance of the launch, in terms of audience interest and excitement. There's just no question in my mind that Pdox is being a lot more wary and cagey with the run up to HoI4 than they were with CKII or EU4. If they're trying to send a 'don't get your hopes up too much' message, I think they're succeeding, and I think it's the completely wrong approach.
Again, the game was announced to much fanfare in January 2014. Seems to me we're in now in the time-frame window of 'anticipating release' -- it's only (presumably) 4-5 months away, which in the long gestation of the game (over a year now since announced) is not a long time. Pdox has generated nothing like the buzz for HoI4 that they created for CKII and EUIV or their expansions at this stage in the game.
Angry Joe recently interviewed a couple Paradox guys.
There is some discussion of hesitant pre-release hype and other interesting things in there.
Thanks for the link to that video, Nefaro. O0
I had never seen Angry Joe interviewing anyone before.
When the AI does something resembling a D Day invasion, or the Pacific shows some actual resemblance to WW II, someone call me.
The Angry Joe video is excellent. He asks some tough questions of the developers. Not the typical softballs.
Quote from: bboyer66 on February 18, 2015, 10:28:17 PM
When the AI does something resembling a D Day invasion, or the Pacific shows some actual resemblance to WW II, someone call me.
That's part of how I've always viewed the HOI series. Rather problematic with the naval aspects, for one.
Quote
The Angry Joe video is excellent. He asks some tough questions of the developers. Not the typical softballs.
Yeah, he was pretty straight with them. I would've been surprised if he had done the typical cheese interview, glad I wasn't. O0 To their credit, the Paradox guys didn't mind answering them either. I definitely have a lot more respect for them since they've improved their release day quality since CK2, and implemented the modular system with their add-ons so there isn't a bunch of confusion or incompatibility between people with different expansions. Other developers could learn something from them.
I'm hoping they'll create an EU Rome 2 that has much more character and internal gov't depth than the original. Something with CK2's character system & interactions but with the extra internal gov't struggles. The original's expansion didn't fill that out anywhere near as much as it should have, leaving it slow and dullish much of the time. Starting with the CK2 engine and working that direction could have some great results. Vicky 3 would be nice too, if of the same quality as the recent series but I don't expect to see that for a bit either.
Hearts of Iron 4! PDXCon15 Livestream with Lead Designer Dan "podcat" Lind
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D0jNe_dUVE
Trust me, I have always wanted to like the HOI franchise. It's got all the bells and whistles. Just when you start playing it, you realize something other than WWII is playing out in front of you. Still I hold out hope considering how surprisingly competent I found the AI in EUIV.
If you have HOI3 complete (with Their Finest Hour) I recommend this excellent well-researched and produced mod:
http://blackicemod.com/
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?637689-Black-ICE-TFH
One thing I spotted on the video (at 15:30+) was that you can group divisions under a leader but there's no unit hierarchy. No corps, no armies. I hope this is just because it's alpha. If it's not this is a no-go for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6D0jNe_dUVE#t=925
Quote from: Ian C on February 19, 2015, 09:22:00 AM
One thing I spotted on the video (at 15:30+) was that you can group divisions under a leader but there's no unit hierarchy. No corps, no armies. I hope this is just because it's alpha. If it's not this is a no-go for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6D0jNe_dUVE#t=925
Maybe I'm being too much the devil's advocate here. But perhaps all the military hierarchy stuff in HOI3 helped cripple sensible AI control of it?
Quote from: Nefaro on February 19, 2015, 12:50:13 PM
Quote from: Ian C on February 19, 2015, 09:22:00 AM
One thing I spotted on the video (at 15:30+) was that you can group divisions under a leader but there's no unit hierarchy. No corps, no armies. I hope this is just because it's alpha. If it's not this is a no-go for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6D0jNe_dUVE#t=925
Maybe I'm being too much the devil's advocate here. But perhaps all the military hierarchy stuff in HOI3 helped cripple sensible AI control of it?
That would be my thought also. Then again, they might also be getting rid of it because it added complexity that they decided wasn't worth it.
Then there's always the issue of too much pre-release publicity deadening interest in a game. This happens with movies that show trailer after trailer for months before release in theaters. By the time the movie is out I've seen so many trailers it's like I already saw the movie and my interest wanes. Can the same thing happen with a game?
Quote from: Rayfer on February 19, 2015, 01:48:34 PM
Then there's always the issue of too much pre-release publicity deadening interest in a game. This happens with movies that show trailer after trailer for months before release in theaters. By the time the movie is out I've seen so many trailers it's like I already saw the movie and my interest wanes. Can the same thing happen with a game?
This happened with MS Surface tablet.
Quote from: fabius on February 19, 2015, 02:19:27 PM
Quote from: Rayfer on February 19, 2015, 01:48:34 PM
Then there's always the issue of too much pre-release publicity deadening interest in a game. This happens with movies that show trailer after trailer for months before release in theaters. By the time the movie is out I've seen so many trailers it's like I already saw the movie and my interest wanes. Can the same thing happen with a game?
This happened with MS Surface tablet.
I'm glad
my interest in the Surface didn't wane.... I played some Diablo 3 at lunch on my Surface Pro 2. ;-)
Elimination of the Chain of Command / OOB hierarchy is for me the biggest disappointment about HoI4's development. Dan Lind has openly admitted that it's gone because the AI in HoI3 couldn't handle it effectively. I understand that rationale, but I think it's a terrible decision. I'm not looking forward to returning to the "stack = army" simplifications of HoI and HoI2.
There's clearly a balance to strike between good promo and over-hyping a product. I'm not in favor of over-hyping anything.
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 19, 2015, 03:47:00 PM
Elimination of the Chain of Command / OOB hierarchy is for me the biggest disappointment about HoI4's development. Dan Lind has openly admitted that it's gone because the AI in HoI3 couldn't handle it effectively.
Well, fair enough but they could at least allow an option for us to group units and label them in groups, for immersion; and the new AI had better be good, in that case.
Guys, yes HoI has it's deficiencies. In the past Pacific war didn't always play out so well. And I'm not sure the dropping of OOB will be the optimal progression.
But it's a grand-strategy WW2 that has economics, tech, some diplomacy, espionage, some partisans, etc etc... and there are very few games that compete with it's breadth.
In fact the only other recent release I can think of has no, none, zero, nothing AI.
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 19, 2015, 03:47:00 PM
Elimination of the Chain of Command / OOB hierarchy is for me the biggest disappointment about HoI4's development. Dan Lind has openly admitted that it's gone because the AI in HoI3 couldn't handle it effectively. I understand that rationale, but I think it's a terrible decision. I'm not looking forward to returning to the "stack = army" simplifications of HoI and HoI2.
There's clearly a balance to strike between good promo and over-hyping a product. I'm not in favor of over-hyping anything.
I'd rather it function better than feature full OOB designations. Sounds like they had to choose one so in that case it's the right decision IMO.
I won't have a bloody clue what I'm doing when I play anyway, so they can do what they please as far as I'm concerned. :)
Quote from: Huw the Poo on February 19, 2015, 05:32:01 PM
I won't have a bloody clue what I'm doing when I play anyway, so they can do what they please as far as I'm concerned. :)
+1 ! Haha!
.
Quote from: fabius on February 19, 2015, 04:45:36 PM
Guys, yes HoI has it's deficiencies. In the past Pacific war didn't always play out so well. And I'm not sure the dropping of OOB will be the optimal progression.
But it's a grand-strategy WW2 that has economics, tech, some diplomacy, espionage, some partisans, etc etc... and there are very few games that compete with it's breadth.
In fact the only other recent release I can think of has no, none, zero, nothing AI.
The question begs, why have all these bells and whistles if the AI cant use them effectively, or sometimes at all?
Quote from: bboyer66 on February 20, 2015, 09:43:25 AM
Quote from: fabius on February 19, 2015, 04:45:36 PM
Guys, yes HoI has it's deficiencies. In the past Pacific war didn't always play out so well. And I'm not sure the dropping of OOB will be the optimal progression.
But it's a grand-strategy WW2 that has economics, tech, some diplomacy, espionage, some partisans, etc etc... and there are very few games that compete with it's breadth.
In fact the only other recent release I can think of has no, none, zero, nothing AI.
The question begs, why have all these bells and whistles if the AI cant use them effectively, or sometimes at all?
This just strikes me as laziness and also goes with the flow of making games less groggy and more 'elegant', ie, shallow. I also don't see how it is so difficult to have the AI handle the chain of command. With the bonuses given to difficulty level, its not like it has to be at the same efficiency level as a human, it has to be somewhere in the ballpark. So its 1941 and you get new officers... well have an algo run through the COC and see where the new guys fit in or don't. Front line units are get the best officers, garrisons get the scrubs. Add + whatever percent to their overall skill if the officer has some particular bonus, ie, panzer leader. Same thing a player is doing.
Externalize as much as you can with the AI scripting and let moders pick up your slack.
edit: forgot to address this - with the COC in HOI3 you wanted to have HQs within XXX distance of your units. Yes, that is some 'extra' overhead for the AI, but just factor that into your efficiency calculations. If I move this CORPS HQ two territories over my units fight at +15% efficiency. And again, if its not perfect so what? AI is usually pretty poor and once players get the hang of the game they have to keep giving it an increasing handicap, via difficulty or self imposed house rules, so just give it some extra bonuses if it keeps muffing the subtleties of the COC.
Quote from: Ian C on February 19, 2015, 09:22:00 AM
One thing I spotted on the video (at 15:30+) was that you can group divisions under a leader but there's no unit hierarchy. No corps, no armies. I hope this is just because it's alpha. If it's not this is a no-go for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6D0jNe_dUVE#t=925
Preview : http://www.gamewatcher.com/previews/hearts-of-iron-iv-preview/12158
Hearts of Iron 4 has a new command system that simplifies combat and leaves you free to concentrate on managing the infrastructure of your nation. You can assign several units to an AI commander, picked from a list of historical military leaders for each country, and assign them battle plans that will tell them where to attack and where to fall back to in case of defeat.
I like immersive gameplay. I don't give a rat's ass about the AI struggling with OOBs, I just want to be able to group 3 divisions together and label it a Corps. Group 3 corps together and label it '1st Army' and so on. HOI4 won't let us do this? AARs are going to be interesting. No Corps. No Armies. Seriously, how can they advertise a new 'battle plan' style of organsing attacks with pointy arrow maps etc and not have named basic unit groups?
Also, where are the NATO counters? Not one screen shot with a flat map and counters.
Quote from: Ian C on February 23, 2015, 01:33:38 PM
Also, where are the NATO counters? Not one screen shot with a flat map and counters.
I fear that they have dumped NATO counters since they don't fit their 'wonderful' 3D maps. They created a shitstorm with their original map for HOI3 in that no one could identify terrain without hovering the mouse over a province. Unfortunately, the easy terrain map didn't allow for weather to be shown so I pretty much ignored weather.
I have not played a single game of HOI1/2/3 with the sprites activated and probably never will. If HOI4 doesn't have NATO counters, they won't have me as a customer.
Quote from: bobarossa on February 23, 2015, 01:49:57 PM
I fear that they have dumped NATO counters since they don't fit their 'wonderful' 3D maps.
I think that's pretty much confirmed -- there's no 2D map view, and there won't be traditional NATO counters, but rather 'counters' in the sense of what you get when zoomed out playing CKII / EUIV -- those 'unit bar' things. Not thrilled about this myself.
The map in HoI3 left a lot to be desired, to put it mildly. While I love the maps in CKII/EUIV, what I see of the new HOI4 map leaves me a little concerned -- especially with the day/night cycles, the map looks more 21st-century satellite view than vintage WW2 (which is what they were going for in HOI3, and failed to achieve pretty miserably...) And the very foggy fog of war needs to be thinned out or toned down or something...
I would've thought the NATO counters would be modded in in pretty short order.
I had a great fear that some of those sprites were doing press ups
Quote from: Huw the Poo on February 23, 2015, 02:14:19 PM
I would've thought the NATO counters would be modded in in pretty short order.
I certainly hope so. I play HOI3 exclusively with nato counters. Without them I won't buy HOI4.
Quote from: Huw the Poo on February 23, 2015, 02:14:19 PM
I would've thought the NATO counters would be modded in in pretty short order.
That fact that
someone has to mod-in NATO counters for a Hearts of Iron game fills me with a crappy feeling.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on February 23, 2015, 02:21:02 PM
I had a great fear that some of those sprites were doing press ups
They are, and I made the mistake of starting a thread on the Pdox forum on exactly this topic, saying (in so many words) that it looks flippin' stupid. I should know better than to tangle with the tar-baby that is Pdox fanboyism, though.
The fact that we'll have to rely on someone modding out little soldiers doing jumping-jacks and push-ups doesn't leave me with a good feeling either, Ian...
Quote from: bboyer66 on February 20, 2015, 09:43:25 AM
The question begs, why have all these bells and whistles if the AI cant use them effectively, or sometimes at all?
For the multiplayer, of course... >:D
None of us like it being dumbed down.
However, if Pdox actually manages to create a relatively bug-free HOI in which the AI is effective and can emulate the WW2 military-political situations to a decent extent, then I'd consider it a success.
I'm not even sure that is possible, however. My faith in the HOI series tanked long ago. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.
Would still rather see a new EU Rome 2 or Sengoku 2 with it's own style of CK2 character & political system. Or even one in Ancient China. Lots of places to go with that. At least that system works.
Vicky III!
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 23, 2015, 03:24:29 PM
Vicky III!
That Angry Joe video interview made it sound like that wasn't going to be anytime soon.
Yeah, kind of got that sense as well. Vicky III needs a "champion," according to Wester.
Hey, I'd gladly take a leave of absence from my present employ if Pdox is hiring for that position :)
Quote from: JudgeDredd on February 23, 2015, 02:21:02 PM
I had a great fear that some of those sprites were doing press ups
They are doing pushups. If you look closely, you will see those units are actually in training. I presume the animation to represent this is the push-up position.
I wonder if someone will mod-in a frauline, when they're on Furlough.
A Rock/Paper/Shotgun hands-on mini-review of HoI4. http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/02/24/hands-on-hearts-of-iron-iv/
You know I only played Vicky II once, and must say I had a great time.
Played as Greece and had a very tough go against the Ottoman Empire the entire game. The AI was a good challenge.
The biggest problem with the game is the spells where you do not really have a whole lot to do and the game just kind of plays itself.
If it's fun, I'll play it. It's not like Paradox are Apple.
However -without NATO symbols and Corps/Armies/ Groups, the arrows are pretty frickin' pointless. However, I'm almost certain that the modding realism brigades will sort this out.
(https://cms-images.idgesg.net/images/article/2015/02/hoi4_3-100569515-orig.png)
More screamshots:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?837739-HoI-IV-Previews-and-more-Screenshots&s=8b83c72f546c4cccaf569646f463e834
i like the portraits
its still the most played game in my steam library and ill probably get it and conquer europe as Benito again
Quote from: undercovergeek on February 25, 2015, 03:21:33 PM
i like the portraits
... conquer europe as Benito again
At last! The trains will run on time!
I like the portraits too but the rest of the interface looks like it belongs on a mobile app, not a Paradox game.
I didn't come from the hex and chit crowd to these games, but, I have to say, no NATO counters is a bad decision on Paradox's part. Seems a funny thing to get close to calling a 'Game breaker,' but, it would be difficult for me to play it without them.
Quote from: MetalDog on February 25, 2015, 04:25:28 PM
I didn't come from the hex and chit crowd to these games, but, I have to say, no NATO counters is a bad decision on Paradox's part. Seems a funny thing to get close to calling a 'Game breaker,' but, it would be difficult for me to play it without them.
Agree - although I am one of the hex and
chit counter crowd :)
Then again I'll still probably buy it 3-6 months after release when it goes 75% off and most of the initial bugs have been ironed out as I have done with all of my Paradox purchases.
Quote from: MetalDog on February 25, 2015, 04:25:28 PM
I didn't come from the hex and chit crowd to these games, but, I have to say, no NATO counters is a bad decision on Paradox's part. Seems a funny thing to get close to calling a 'Game breaker,' but, it would be difficult for me to play it without them.
Yeah it's hardly a deal breaker for me either, and as I said, I'm sure they'll be modded in post-haste. Or released as a DLC. ;)
Soon as I get this I will let the AI play itself, and see if something resembling WWII happens.
One last thing. Has anyone noticed that the previews are almost all European theater exclusive? This does not bode well for the Pacific.
Not only that, everything has been centered on Germany Germany Germany...
A shift in focus would be nice. I'd like to see more about Pacific Theater myself. There was a dev diary a while back about naval stuff... Wasn't terribly informative though.
Naval warfare has long been an Achilles heel for HOI -- I really hope they make big improvements in that department...
Quote from: sandman2575 on February 27, 2015, 09:49:06 AM
Not only that, everything has been centered on Germany Germany Germany...
A shift in focus would be nice. I'd like to see more about Pacific Theater myself. There was a dev diary a while back about naval stuff... Wasn't terribly informative though.
Naval warfare has long been an Achilles heel for HOI -- I really hope they make big improvements in that department...
The whole Pacific war has been silly in past versions of HOI, which has been one of the major problems for me, because I wanted to play as the Americans, but the Pacific should be the funnest part for the Americans instead of just bleh. EU has managed to improve their naval warfare a little: it's still not very good, but it's not the disaster it was 5 years ago. Some of the new naval ideas in the Hoi dev diary look promising, but I've got to remain skeptical about Paradox's ability to simulate active carrier warfare.
Any news on HOI IV? Been quiet.
They've been doing weekly Dev Diaries of late, which is nice -- new one today:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hearts-of-iron-iv-26th-development-diary-25th-of-september-2015.883544/ (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hearts-of-iron-iv-26th-development-diary-25th-of-september-2015.883544/)
Johan's posts tend to be a little thin on details, but I guess that's the nature of 'weekly dev diaries'. Always nice to see new screenshots.
I'll have to say I do like the unit icons and sprites. Although I do understand how to read Nato symbols I've always preferred icons and sprites to my military games. I come from the mentality where pushing little plastic soldiers and tanks in the backyard lawn is much more fun than pushing cardboard boxes with x's or horizontal ovals in them. :coolsmiley:
Quote from: W8taminute on September 25, 2015, 10:40:33 AM
I'll have to say I do like the unit icons and sprites. Although I do understand how to read Nato symbols I've always preferred icons and sprites to my military games. I come from the mentality where pushing little plastic soldiers and tanks in the backyard lawn is much more fun than pushing cardboard boxes with x's or horizontal ovals in them. :coolsmiley:
Damn kids! Git off ma lawn! Hex and counter or die! :tickedoff:
Quote from: Barthheart on September 25, 2015, 10:42:48 AM
Quote from: W8taminute on September 25, 2015, 10:40:33 AM
I'll have to say I do like the unit icons and sprites. Although I do understand how to read Nato symbols I've always preferred icons and sprites to my military games. I come from the mentality where pushing little plastic soldiers and tanks in the backyard lawn is much more fun than pushing cardboard boxes with x's or horizontal ovals in them. :coolsmiley:
Damn kids! Git off ma lawn! Hex and counter or die! :tickedoff:
Haha! Ok I'm taking my little army guys and finding someplace else to play. ;D
No I do understand what you mean, and perhaps they should have included an option for the Nato symbols in the game. If their programming budget is limited I'm glad they went the way they did however. I'm sure someone in the community will mod the Nato symbols in. Far easier to mod a unit symbol than a unit sprite. O0
Quote from: W8taminute on September 25, 2015, 10:46:48 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on September 25, 2015, 10:42:48 AM
Quote from: W8taminute on September 25, 2015, 10:40:33 AM
I'll have to say I do like the unit icons and sprites. Although I do understand how to read Nato symbols I've always preferred icons and sprites to my military games. I come from the mentality where pushing little plastic soldiers and tanks in the backyard lawn is much more fun than pushing cardboard boxes with x's or horizontal ovals in them. :coolsmiley:
Damn kids! Git off ma lawn! Hex and counter or die! :tickedoff:
Haha! Ok I'm taking my little army guys and finding someplace else to play. ;D
No I do understand what you mean, and perhaps they should have included an option for the Nato symbols in the game. If their programming budget is limited I'm glad they went the way they did however. I'm sure someone in the community will mod the Nato symbols in. Far easier to mod a unit symbol than a unit sprite. O0
O0 I know what you mean as well. In fact I like unit sprites for so games as well. It's just that at this level, strategic, individual soldiers and tanks seems odd to represent 50,000 of each...
I do however love the period sprites used in EUIV and CKII.
Personally, I liked the system in HoI3, where you use both counters and sprites based on what 'magnification' you were viewing the map. I used counters 99% but then liked the view to switch to sprites at max magnification, just because I liked the look of some of the sprites... Cake and eat it to, this way.
Although playing the Black ICE mod, I just use counters because the counter graphics are superb, with divisions sporting their actual historical insignia. Very cool.
I used to map out country silhouettes using popsicle sticks on the ground and then place my little army guys down. In my imagination each army guy represented a division. So the battles I fought in the backyard were with little army guys yes, but regulated by dice rolls and popsicle sticks used as measuring devices. Not too bad for an 8 year old to come up with if I don't say so myself. Later in my teens I graduated to cardboard wargames with the real deal but always had a soft spot for my little guys.
Quote from: sandman2575 on September 25, 2015, 10:52:41 AM
[...]
Although playing the Black ICE mod, I just use counters because the counter graphics are superb, with divisions sporting their actual historical insignia. Very cool.
AGREE 100%!
playing blackice for some time now - feels like hoi5 all the way! O0
btw, did you try BI v8 already? great stuff!!
cheers!
Haven't tried v.8 yet -- I thought it was still in a very experimental stage of development, so I've held off. Must say, I feel increasingly daunted by BICE, with the zillions of new features / specialized units / specialized techs etc. etc. it keeps adding. Part of me wishes Panzeroo would stop 'iterating' on the mod and let it marinate for a bit. I don't know how he does it though, all the work and time he and the BICE team have put into this mod...
BTW, your beautiful maps for WitP:AE saved that game for me, Chemkid. Couldn't play without 'em. Tremendous work. O0
Quote from: chemkid on September 25, 2015, 11:48:26 AM
Quote from: sandman2575 on September 25, 2015, 10:52:41 AM
[...]
Although playing the Black ICE mod, I just use counters because the counter graphics are superb, with divisions sporting their actual historical insignia. Very cool.
AGREE 100%!
playing blackice for some time now - feels like hoi5 all the way! O0
btw, did you try BI v8 already? great stuff!!
cheers!
I've read/heard good things about this black-ice mod...is it usable with the Steam version of HOI3?
Ps. I prefer the counters, don't enjoy the sprites at all.
Quote from: sandman2575 on September 25, 2015, 09:02:58 AM
They've been doing weekly Dev Diaries of late, which is nice -- new one today:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hearts-of-iron-iv-26th-development-diary-25th-of-september-2015.883544/ (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hearts-of-iron-iv-26th-development-diary-25th-of-september-2015.883544/)
Johan's posts tend to be a little thin on details, but I guess that's the nature of 'weekly dev diaries'. Always nice to see new screenshots.
Any sense for release date? I am moderately interested in this. I actually liked much of what HOI III was all about. Except that the grand strategic AI was often brain dead...so hope they fix that.
My guess (and hope) for release is Q1 2016. But Pdox has been reluctant to give concrete info. on this since badly missing the initial release target of Q2 2015. They've admitted that the game was first announced *way* too early (first announced in Jan 2014!) and that they won't announce new games going forward until they are near (or in) Beta.
Quote from: Rayfer on September 25, 2015, 12:22:47 PM
I've read/heard good things about this black-ice mod...is it usable with the Steam version of HOI3?
Ps. I prefer the counters, don't enjoy the sprites at all.
I have mixed feelings about BICE. Overall, it's an amazing mod and an amazing achievement. I'm glad it's available. But it also feels a bit overkill to me at this point. It's essentially the Super Deluxe Ultra Mega Every Conceivable Bell & Whistle version of HoI3. I'm not sure More is always Better, in terms of the units, features, techs etc. etc. that BICE adds (and keeps adding).
Definitely worth trying though if you've had your fill of vanilla HoI3.
EDIT -- not sure about Steam compatibility -- I don't have HoI3 on Steam --
I'm surprised no one has pointed out that NATO counters give you a much better feel for the size and types of troops in the enemy region. You can count divisions when you are in counter mode; don't think that's possible with sprites.
I've never seen counters morph into sprites when you zoom out. I just get a slightly different version of counters (just one counter, can't count units).
I think Paradox's reason for no counters in HOI4 is that it doesn't look as pretty on the 3D maps they use these days. Not really sure since I never used their 3D map in HOI3; always used the simplified map mode since it let you see terrain type at a glance.
Quote from: bobarossa on September 25, 2015, 02:02:50 PM
I've never seen counters morph into sprites when you zoom out. I just get a slightly different version of counters (just one counter, can't count units).
There's a setting in Options -- "Counter Distance" or some such, IIRC. If you have this selected, Counters will morph into Sprites as you zoom *in*, just depends where you set the slider. Alternatively, you can always use 'counters only' or 'sprites only.' I always liked the 'morphing' option. But if I had to choose, counters > sprites, I agree.
I'm not getting my hopes up for HOI4.... The things I've read indicate they want it to be more sandbox, which is fine as long as something resembling WW2 breaks out or can be prompted. I don't want to have to rely on modders to do it again. Plus, until something resembling the Pacific War can be simulated, it's disappointing. I also didn't like HOI3s direction as far as coordinating with allies. Loses a lot of immersion for me if i can't absolutely count on the US and Britain to act in concert for large scale operations.
An earlier post indicated no counters in HOI4? If true, that's a huge disappointment for me, maybe even a game killer.
Quote from: smittyohio on September 25, 2015, 02:11:35 PM
I'm not getting my hopes up for HOI4.... The things I've read indicate they want it to be more sandbox, which is fine as long as something resembling WW2 breaks out or can be prompted. I don't want to have to rely on modders to do it again. Plus, until something resembling the Pacific War can be simulated, it's disappointing. I also didn't like HOI3s direction as far as coordinating with allies. Loses a lot of immersion for me if i can't absolutely count on the US and Britain to act in concert for large scale operations.
Too much sandbox was one my biggest issues with the Making History series. The weird political dynamics just got to be too much at some point.
I would like to see the return of controlling your allies. Pointing to where you want to invade and hoping the AI follows just doesn't really cut it.
Quote from: Rayfer on September 25, 2015, 02:17:30 PM
An earlier post indicated no counters in HOI4? If true, that's a huge disappointment for me, maybe even a game killer.
Well, apparently there are counters, hopefully they will work on all zoom levels. Take a look at last screenshot in this dev-blog :
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hearts-of-iron-iv-22nd-development-diary-28th-of-august-2015.879058/
Quote from: Beowulf on September 26, 2015, 04:18:32 AM
Quote from: Rayfer on September 25, 2015, 02:17:30 PM
An earlier post indicated no counters in HOI4? If true, that's a huge disappointment for me, maybe even a game killer.
Well, apparently there are counters, hopefully they will work on all zoom levels. Take a look at last screenshot in this dev-blog :
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hearts-of-iron-iv-22nd-development-diary-28th-of-august-2015.879058/
Thanks....you've restored my hope/faith in this iteration of HOI.
I think they've even stated that 3D models are a thing of the past as a whole for HOI 4 and counters will be the only way to display units.
Well, Johan says in that post that it was a toggle.
Looks like there's an 'Historical Mode' for the AI: http://www.pcgamer.com/hearts-of-iron-iv-streamlined-ww2-strategy/
I hope someone mods proper counters. The inclusion of traditional battle planning on-map and the historical mode seem to be at odds against the no-counters policy they seem determined to keep.
The division designer looks very cool. Judging by that, you can tell there will be some cool detail. It also sounds like they are abstracting air power a bit more. I have been saying that for years. Good news, although I hope they work on the Pacific AI more, that has always been a big let down IMO.
new dev diary out -- about weather and terrain effects --
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hearts-of-iron-iv-28th-development-diary-weather-terrain.885969/ (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hearts-of-iron-iv-28th-development-diary-weather-terrain.885969/)
Despite some misgivings (mostly the removal of OOB), I think the design philosophy behind HoI4 is spot on: eliminate as much micromanagement as possible, make information accessible and clear, streamline with minimal dumbing down. Podcat's vision really is to create the anti-HoI3, and that's a good thing (even though I think HoI3 became a terrific game in the end, for all its lingering flaws).
For me, the first test of whether HoI4 succeeds in besting its predecessor will be how it handles the pre-war years. In HoI3, prewar was a necessary evil: necessary for strategic planning, but hideously boring, slow, and micro-management heavy. If HoI4 makes me actually care about the prewar by making it engaging and not just "when does the shootin' start?", that will be a real achievement.
I love the pre-war years in HoI 3. That's my favourite part of the game. It's the late war grind that I find to be tedious affair in micro-management.
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on October 10, 2015, 03:01:46 AM
I love the pre-war years in HoI 3. That's my favourite part of the game. It's the late war grind that I find to be tedious affair in micro-management.
That's been my experience as well.
I know I might be in the minority, but I am hoping they simplify things quite a bit so it is easier for me to get into so this direction is up my alley. If they can include options for both hard core and casual gamers so that everybody gets what they want, even better.
Beta enrollment now available......
http://beta.paradoxplaza.com/signup/48/
while everyone's waiting for hoi4... the black ice mod just hit version 8.5!
BlackICE v8.5 Release Notes
Ok, gang. Here is the current release notes/change log for the upcoming release of BlackICE v8.5! As you will no doubt notice, this has turned out to be a HUGE, and pretty epic release. Lots of critical fixes, and a ton of new content.
NEW: Retextured map, and now with new higher resolution terrain textures!
Edited shader code to provide a bit more "pop" when rendering terrain tiles
NEW: Air Command units. Halved the air/surface detection of most normal air units. Added those bonuses back to the air command units. Created hidden AI tech to receive those bonuses without an air command unit. Types: Fighter Group - For Inties Heavy Fighter Group - For Twin Engine Fighters Night Fighter Group - For Multi-Role Fighter/Bombers Bomber Group (Light) - For light bombers and CAS Bomber Group (Medium) - For Tactical Bombers Bomber Group (Heavy) - For Strategic Bombers Bomber Group (Naval) - For Naval Bombers and Flying Boats Transport Group - For normal Transport Planes Transport Group (Heavy) - For Quad Engine/Heavy Transport Planess USA/JAP/ITA/SOV/GER get some historical air command units in the starting OOB USA/GER/ENG get other historical air command units via event OOBs All countries can build the generic versions of these Increased the # of units an air stack without penalty by 1, per rank, to allow for the new air command units.
NEW: Command Ships: Similar to the above "air command units", we are introducing an experimental "Command Cruiser (Light)" and "Command Battleship". These are flagships that are a bit more expensive to build, but they provide communications, office space, and accommodations for a fleet commander and his staff, and serve to coordinate fleet activities. They provide bonuses in several areas for your fleets, and they have enhanced defenses for better survivability. air/surface/sub detection stats have been halved for normal naval units Those bonuses are re-added/amped up by the inclusion of a command ship in your fleets They become available as soon as a country activates Light Cruisers and/or Battleships
NEW: Battle Commander Updates The major countries can rejoice! We have put some effort into the "battle commander" units to make them more unique and enjoyable. They now have custom counters, and have a counter priority just below the division HQs, meaning if you make "task force" units with them, you will easily be able to identify them on the battlefield as they will be the visible counter.
NEW: Air Training Missions for player fighters and bombers
NEW: Airborne Kampfgruppe unit These are airdroppable badasses that are unlocked via historical OOB events for the countries that had them.
GER: Kampfgruppes bon der Heyte, Shultz, Hubner, Ramcke
USA: 1st Marine Parachute Regimental Combat Team ("Paramarines"), 503rd, 517th Parachute Regimental Combat Teams
JAP: Takachiho, Ohmura, and Kaoru Airborne Detachments
NEW: Airborne Engineer Battalion unit Smaller than a normal engineer brigade, but air droppable! Focus is assault engineering.
NEW: New Battle Streamer events (Major Victories and Defeats - replaces old events) There are 6 levels of "major victories". Whenever a player achieves one of these, he will earn a "battle streamer". Each level will also confer a bonus in the form of a country modifier, but will only last for 90 days. Each level must be "chained". So to get level 2 the player must have to have level 1 in effect, etc. If all six levels are successfully chained, the player will receive a permanent bonus. Similarly, there are 6 levels of "major defeats". Each level of defeat will apply a malus! Removed old medal and victory/defeat events
NEW: Added custom event images for weather notification events.
NEW: Updated map icons for airfields, ports, AA, Radar, Land Fortress, and Coastal Fort
NEW: Added Geo battleplan from Aleksi
NEW: Added some more historical flavor events (Roosevelt's Promise Speech in 1940, The Closing of Brighton Beach in England, etc.)
NEW: Added some nation specific transport units
NEW: Allies: Added a series of historical flavor events featuring the award-winning radio broadcasts from noted war correspondent, Edward R. Morrow.
NEW: Allies: Added Declaration by United Nations event in 1942
NEW: AST/USA: New historical flavor event for the "Battle of Brisbane"
NEW: AST: Added historical event for capture of intact Mitsubishi Zero in 1942
NEW: Backstory Fallout Event: Feed the Poor
NEW: Backstory Fallout Event: Militant Followers, plus tweaks to others
NEW: Backstory Fallout Event: National New Business Program
NEW: Backstory Fallout Event: New Research Center Grand Opening
NEW: Backstory Fallout Event: Players with industrialist background will at some point get new supply factories
NEW: Backstory Fallout Event: Players with medical background as a Doctor will at some point get a new hospital grand-opening.
NEW: Backstory Fallout Events: Esprit de Corps events for air, land, and naval forces, if they chose a career as a soldier, sailor, or pilot as a young adult.
NEW: Added Backstory YOU units for medical and industrialist options. These are not based on the battle-commander unit, but rather the leader_brigade.
NEW: CAN: The Plebiscite of 1942 (Canadian Conscription)
NEW: ENG/USA: Flavor event: Churchill Addresses joint session of U.S. Congress
NEW: ENG: Added custom HQ unit and counter for the Chindits Expedition
NEW: ENG: Added ENG 10th Army custom historical unit
New: ENG: Added new custom unit - the Political Warfare Executive. Provides a counterintelligence bonus via underground propaganda radio broadcasts as long as it is alive and functional!
NEW: ENG: Added Ninth Army custom HQ unit
NEW: ENG: National Registration Act of 1939 for England
NEW: ENG: New historical event, Princess Elizabeth registers for war service in 1942
NEW: ENG: The Oslo Report is provided to British Intelligence
NEW: FRA: Added historical HQ unit counters and events for 5th Light Cav, 6th Light Cav, 4th Light Mech, and 7th Light Mech Divisions
NEW: FRA: Added model images for unique French BBs
NEW: FRA: Added unique counters for starting OOB ground units and battleships
NEW: GER: Added the training commands for the OKH, OKL, and OKM. Each training command confers a small related bonus to players, each of which will be lost if the corresponding HQ unit is destroyed!
NEW: GER: Added custom mapcounters for GER XLI (MOT), XLI (Pz) and XXXIX (MOT) corps
NEW: GER: Added Ger XIX Armeekorps
NEW: GER: Added ss_heavy_artillery_brigade
NEW: GER: Added XV. A.K.(mot) at historical date for Germany in Jena
NEW: GER: Added XVI AK mot and corrected xix_corps
NEW: GER: Added XXXIX and XLI Korps, and XLI Panzer Korps
NEW: GER: Adding the XIX. Armme korps for Gruppe Guderian/Panzergruppe Guderian event chain
NEW: USA/Allies: Historical flavor event for the debut of Charlie Chaplin's satirical film on Hitler and Mussolini, "The Great Dictator"
NEW: USA/GER: Added historical events for the Duquesne Spy Ring.
NEW: USA/JAP: Added a series supply throughput bonus to the Pacific Island Hopping Campaign. JAP and USA will now receive a global supply throughput bonus based on how many target islands they control. The more islands you control, the higher the cumulative bonus!
NEW: USA: Added 158th Regimental Combat Team (RCT) KG Unit and OOB Event
NEW: USA: Added 1st Marine Parachute Regimental Combat Team ("Paramarines") and event
NEW: USA: Added Battle of Los Angeles event
NEW: USA: Added custom counter for USA 517th Parachute Regimental Combat Team (PRCT).
NEW: USA: Added custom HQ unit for the Air Transport Command (ATC), responsible for military airlifts throughout the war.
NEW: USA: Added custom HQ units and events for 11th, 12th, 13th, and 14th Air Forces
NEW: USA: Added custom HQ units and events for USA subordinate naval commands (3rd, 4th, 5th, 7th, 8th, and 12th fleets)
NEW: USA: Added custom unit for U.S. 8th USAAF ("The Mighty Eighth")
NEW: USA: Added custom units for U.S. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th USAAFs. These units will load upon selecting "Yes" for the USAAF Reorganization event.
NEW: USA: Added event and unique theatre HQs for Southwest Pacific Area (SWPA/MacArthur) and Pacific Ocean Areas (POA/Nimitz).
NEW: USA: Added FDR Fireside Chat radio broadcast events
NEW: USA: Added Fleet Marine Force, Pacific (FMFPAC) historical HQ
NEW: USA: Added historical counter for Panama Canal Department
NEW: USA: Added historical counter for Philippine Department
NEW: USA: Added historical counter for the Hawaiian Department
NEW: USA: Added historical counters for Eastern and Western Defense Commands
NEW: USA: Added historical flavor event for the "Four Chaplains" tragedy
NEW: USA: Added historical flavor event for "Patton Strikes a Soldier"
NEW: USA: Added historical Iceland Base Command HQ unit/counter
NEW: USA: Added historical U.S. I Amphibious Corps HQ unit
NEW: USA: Added historical U.S. I Armored Corps HQ unit.
NEW: USA: Added historical U.S. V Amphibious Corps HQ unit
NEW: USA: Added historical unit counter/OOB for Alaska Department
NEW: USA: Added the historical 1942 reorganization of the Army GHQ, splitting it into three commands (Army Ground Forces, Army Air Forces, and Army Service Forces HQs). Each command confers a small related bonus to players, each of which will be lost if the corresponding HQ unit is destroyed!
NEW: USA: Added U.S. 370th Regimental Combat Team unit and event
NEW: USA: Added U.S. 503rd Parachute Regimental Combat Team and event
NEW: USA: Added U.S. China-Burma-India Command HQ unit
NEW: USA: Added units and events for 5th, 6th, 7th, 9th, and 10th Air Forces (USAAF).
NEW: USA: Added US Navy Fleet Reorganization event. The original 1936 OOB naval HQs are now replaced via the event choice to the Atlantic (CinCLANT), Pacific (CinCPAC), and Asiatic (CinCAF) fleets.
NEW: USA: Added Voice of America (VoA) units, one in the Atlantic, one in the Pacific. Historical propaganda broadcast units. These units can become available once the new Office of War Information (OWI) is launched.
NEW: USA: Edward O'Hare becomes first USN flying ace
NEW: USA: Flavor event for General John J. Pershing urging for aid to allies
NEW: USA: Flavor event for the alleged "Philadelphia Experiment" :D
NEW: USA: Implemented the major coal miner strike(s) of 1943. Also the first of what will be many of FDR's "Fireside Chats", this one related to the mining strike.
NEW: USA: MacArthur: "I Shall Return" event for Philippines evacuation
NEW: USA: New Office of War Information (OWI) events (domestic propaganda through the use of films). Added some minor boosts gained from the OWI propaganda film events, each one tying in some way to the purpose/goal of each film.
CHANGE: Made the "Death of You!" event available to only USA, GER, ENG, ITA, JAP, and SOV. Sadly, we can only check this for the majors, since the others get the generic units in their capital and we can't assign a brigade name without an OOB - bloody hell.
CHANGE: Replacement event images in several areas
CHANGE: some AI land units air attack values reduced
CHANGE: Partisans in Balkans will occur for Italy invasion as well as German
CHANGE: Special HQs terrain modifers tweaked
CHANGE: artillery CA bonus increased
CHANGE: artillery stat tweaks
CHANGE: Naval base efficiency boosted
CHANGE: Removed commando brigade from some build templates as they are event only now
CHANGE: Tweaked country build templates for Airborne divisions to use new airborne_engineer_bat unit
CHANGE: Added airborne_engineer_bat unit to some airborne OOBs and removed the old mixed_support_brigades from airborne OOBs
CHANGE: Changed motorized AA into heavy AA
CHANGE: Re-implemented a bit of the Backstory event/decision chain to ensure that the AI will get his leader units as well.
CHANGE: Light Infantry made a little weaker compared to normal Infantry brigades
CHANGE: Replacement event images for Second London Naval Treaty
CHANGE: Corrected PBB-models with better tech according to unique PBB's
CHANGE: Updated GUI. Added shadow to screens
CHANGE: The Officer Recruitment Program tech no longer reduces the number of officers required for each unit, but actually increases the officer recruitment bonus.
CHANGE: AST: Replacement event images for some AST events
CHANGE: GER: Added a level 6 airbase to Leipzig and changed airbase build event for Leipzig to 4 airbases
CHANGE: GER: Added additional information of XVI. AK(mot)
CHANGE: GER: Added airbases to match level 4 /6 /8 or 10. Also improved desciption. Not finished yet
CHANGE: GER: Added Guderian as leader PGG
CHANGE: GER: Adding better desciption for building airbases and adding some airbases to level 4 or 6
CHANGE: GER: Changed Gruppe Guderian activation to more historical date. Just after the battle of Dunkirk
CHANGE: GER: Renamed submarine names for germany
CHANGE: GER: Updated division build templates for Germany
CHANGE: GER: Updated welle 1 events with HQ only option for on map and production queque
CHANGE: ITA: Italian ETR event modifier less severe
CHANGE: SOV: Some soviet ports have industrial zones removed to allow other strategic resources to be built
CHANGE: USA: Added new airborne_engineer_bat to USA Airborne Division template
CHANGE: USA: Added several minor historic air bases for USA, to support the new historical air_commander unit OOBs
CHANGE: USA: Building the Pentagon now requires an investment of supplies and money.
CHANGE: USA: New event for the formation of the United Services Organization (USO). Formation of the USO is needed in order to trigger the periodic USO Camp Shows.
CHANGE: USA: Slight naming tweaks to USA Marine Special HQ OOBs
CHANGE: USA: Updated USA Army Air Force expansion events and localisations
FIX: The "Death of You!" event should now no longer fire prematurely :)
FIX: Addressed several CTD-related issues
FIX: Corrected blank lines in coding (CTD related)
FIX: ENG/French reinforcements to Norway now require them to also be at war with Germany :D
FIX: Research Lab events should not function properly when playing on HARD or GROFAZ
FIX: Fixed typos, added missing localisations, etc.
FIX: Added some missing techs to the infantry_brigade
FIX: Fixed event for reoutfitting the USA 7th Infantry Division to a Light Division.
FIX: Added missing tech to USA armor models
FIX: Fixed wrong HQ type and add half track transport to all Corps
FIX: The Build Beach Defence build icon will now show up properly in the build queue
FIX: SOV: Fixed rank for Stalin ... should only have one rank entry for 1936
FIX: Fixed issue with a FRA ARM HQ loading in SOV territory
FIX: Added check to venezuela oil: exists = VEN
FIX: Fixed USA build templates to work with new country-specific transports
FIX: Corrected some typos and the counter of 18. Panzer Division
FIX: Fixes for backstory fallout events spamming
FIX: Fixed bug where research center events could spawn an airborne mixed support unit in a random place lol
FIX: Fixed typo 18. Panzer Division cu_counter
FIX: Herman Goring div build fixed
FIX: lower neutrality event fix
FIX: Fixed issue which was causing a hang on Adapting History.
FIX: Corrected the USAAF Reorganization event to have the HQs loaded into the proper historical provinces.
FIX: GER: Fixed bug with SS Das Reich event 49324
FIX: Fixed bug with naval_combat for submarines
FIX: GER: Various fixes for the Norway landing event chain
FIX: Added another check 17. Pz-Div upgrade
get installer (network installer!!) here:
http://blackicemod.com/
and here:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/blackice-v8-5-now-available.901567/
cheers!
chem!
PHILADELPHIA EXPERIMENT!!!! -- wonder if it's just a fun flavor text or actually accomplishes something...
I'm hoping the simplification will allow the AI to actually............ play the game.
Just a heads-up: if you have a crash when saving a game , you need to go into your anti-virus and make an exclusion for the HOI III folder.
Quote from: bboyer66 on January 11, 2016, 08:37:20 AM
I'm hoping the simplification will allow the AI to actually............ play the game.
I'm not sure even the recent QA improvements at Pdox, nor AI simplification, can remedy the HOI series' screwiness.
Is the blackice mod for hoi 2 or version 3?
BlackICE mods HOI 3
In HOI3 I once ordered an invasion of Russia and assigned all the army groups etc..
I sat back and watched as they invaded Russia.
The only problem was they went through Norway and the Sweden and the Finland to get there.
I am all for sneak attacks, but that was a bit too much.
I remember just watching it happen , in semi-awe.
Did it work or was it a complete failure.
If it worked, that would be hilarious. >:D
It was working.
:2funny:
Well, it might have been the Belgium-ish variant of Barbarossa; Finland especially might have welcomed the effort.
Dev diary today about the single feature I'm most excited about: HoI IV's battle planner --
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hearts-of-iron-iv-45th-development-diary-19th-of-february-2016.909353/ (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hearts-of-iron-iv-45th-development-diary-19th-of-february-2016.909353/)
I'm in the minority of players who actually liked HoI3's 'Army AI control' feature. It was incredibly fiddly, but it did allow you to concentrate on the operational big picture while the AI (attempted) to carry out the micromanagement and unit shuffling.
If the HoI IV battle planner works as envisioned, that alone will make this the greatest HoI game in the series, and probably one of the greatest strategic level WW2 games in general...
Hopes running very high for this one. Just wish they'd give some clue as to a release...
Looks great. Hearts of Iron has long been my favorite WWII grand strategy game.
Is there any time frame at all for a release? I don't want to get too excited about this one since it could still be months away, although the beta's been running for what, three or four months now?
No, sadly, Beta just started a week or so ago. My *hope* for is something like a June or July release, although Q3 2016 might be more realistic.
Pdox has said nothing concrete (probably because the last advertised release date -- "Q2 2015" -- proved a debacle) -- they're not going to say anything until they are 100% confident they can meet the deadline.
Wow, they really got that forecast wrong. Oh well, I'm fine with waiting till later this year. Delayed games is pretty much the norm these days anyway.
Oh my god that battle plan feature looks like so much fun
It looks amazing. I've always pined for a wargame that would let you in essence recreate the kinds of maps you see in military history books, with their unit symbols and arrows and frontlines. In HoI3 you could draw the arrows on the map to your heart's content, but it was completely cosmetic, affected gameplay in no way. Here, it's going to be the main mechanic for carrying out operations.
I truly cannot wait. I have no doubt there will be birth pangs and bugs aplenty at first, but I think if anyone can pull this off, it's Paradox.
Very interesting feature indeed, I'm very interested in their approach as we're planning to use a similar approach to commanding units in our upcoming game. HOI IV's approach does seem to lack more than a single level of hierarchy, but given the game's scope it could be enough to avoid a lot of clicking. I wonder if they let you name the groups...
Quote from: george.van.venrooij on February 23, 2016, 07:23:50 PM
HOI IV's approach does seem to lack more than a single level of hierarchy, but given the game's scope it could be enough to avoid a lot of clicking. I wonder if they let you name the groups...
This has been a sticking point for me as well. I really loved HoI3's OOB organization, from Theatre down to divisional level. While I'm all for streamlining (and Lord knows there's much that can be streamlined from HoI3), the fact that they've tossed the OOB out the window in HoI4 doesn't feel great to me. I especially think the Division-Corps-Army-Army Group structure is needed, with emphasis on Corps, which seem the biggest casualty in the new system. Essentially you can 'lasso' a bunch of divisions and call it an "army" but that feels like a big step backward to the old days of "Stack = Army" of HoI1 and 2.
They've eliminated divisional commanders, and I actually think that's a good move -- the micromanagement of HoI3 with assigning divisional generals was tedious -- and on the scale HoI depicts, the quality of divisional generals cannot be really be considered a major factor. I would not say the same of Corps commanders, though. The idea that there are no Corps (less a problem for the Zhukov-reformed Red Army, but regardless) is a big drawback in my book.
Regardless, it's a somewhat minor thing to have to compromise on, given all else that HoI4 seems to be doing right.
How the heck can you get rid of corps structure. Thats the backbone of the allied armies
There's a feature on Theatres here:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads%2Fhearts-of-iron-iv-41st-development-diary-22nd-of-january-2016.903595%2F
Quote:
"In HoI4, we call our basic military unit for a division, even if it may be as small as a single battalion, or as large 30 battalions. These can be grouped into what we call Armies. They have been referred to as command groups in the past, but that concept was a bit confusing. An Army is the entity which interacts with battleplans, and be given a commander. You can have as many armies as you want, but you need at least 1 division in each. Each Army can be named to whatever you want it to be*.
Armies are organised in Theatres, which is a convenient aspect to group divisions according to your needs. Theatres do not have a specific area they cover, but besides giving a proper UI for quick access and a reference name, you can also define the reinforcement priority for that theatre compared to others."
*In essence you can have those armies organised as Corps, if I understand correctly.
List of previews of game features in developer diaries : https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hearts-of-iron-iv-developer-diary-archive-live-stream-videos.847266/
If their goal was to make it less confusing, they failed.
so has the whole concept of been able to design your divisions been dropped - i used to experiment with 3 elements of infantry and engineers, or 3 inf and 1 artillery, the same for the tank divisions?
Quote from: undercovergeek on February 25, 2016, 07:26:26 AM
so has the whole concept of been able to design your divisions been dropped - i used to experiment with 3 elements of infantry and engineers, or 3 inf and 1 artillery, the same for the tank divisions?
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hearts-of-iron-iv-dev-diary-6-division-design.783017/
hmmmmmm :-\
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on February 25, 2016, 07:17:42 AM
If their goal was to make it less confusing, they failed.
Totally disagree. I think it's pretty straight forward.
I do think overall HoI4 will be a lot more accessible and less confusing than HoI3 -- in the same way that EUIV improves on EUIII. Not less complex overall, but more user-friendly, with more information presented 'up front' so it's not a mystery why x is happening rather than y. And I'm sure the UI will be a big upgrade over HoI3 (not to mention the map -- HoI3's map holds its place of honor as the worst map Paradox has ever produced...)
I do wonder why they keep coming up with their own ideas for these mechanics, instead of falling back on something that resembles history. I get that you wouldn't want to confuse/burden the more casual gamer with having to study actual history, but that's the aspect of historical games I always found most appealing: if you DID your homework, you could become a better player. Figuring out some designer's abstract/streamlined reinterpretation of something like this, is less appealing to me.
It was stated early on after HOI4 was announced that the AI had a lot of trouble handling the hierarchy, thus they decided to drop it.
Quote from: george.van.venrooij on February 25, 2016, 02:51:01 PM
I do wonder why they keep coming up with their own ideas for these mechanics, instead of falling back on something that resembles history. I get that you wouldn't want to confuse/burden the more casual gamer with having to study actual history, but that's the aspect of historical games I always found most appealing: if you DID your homework, you could become a better player. Figuring out some designer's abstract/streamlined reinterpretation of something like this, is less appealing to me.
You've hit the nail on the head. Absolutely right. Maybe in our lifetime we'll see something surpass this.
Although, these days I tend to accept what a game is, and not get bitter about what it should be. I find I enjoy games more this way.
I am looking forward to HOI4 though.
EDIT: this week's dev diary is out. I like the idea of Focus Trees in the game.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hearts-of-iron-iv-46th-development-diary-26th-of-february-2016.910637/
I've read something over on the Paradox forums that has somewhat reduced my enthusiasm. Actually, it horrifies me.
Apparently, air units cannot be intercepted while travelling through regions to their target, only at their target. A dev (Podcat) has confirmed they 'teleport' there, from their point of origin, to a distant target.
Quote: "Podcat basicly said: Bombers teleport and get only intercepted in the target zone. There is no path tracking."
Podcat: "correct".
As Cpack pointed out: "England can bomb italian industry by flying through german occupied France (with hundreds of interceptors) just getting intercepted by a handful of outdated italian fighters at target Region? sorry...strange"
Am I over-reacting or is this particularly horrible?
This is a rather long thread but the first 5 or 6 pages spell it out: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/fighters-dont-attack-planes-passing-trough.909877/
Apparently this issue was also staring everyone in the face in the first game dev article on air combat.
See bottom left on hand-written note:
http://forumcontent.paradoxplaza.com/public/100225/DD7%20notes.JPG
I can see this being game-breaking.
I'm glad you brought this up, because if it is a feature of the final product, it is certainly game-breaking.
Did it work this way in the earlier versions of HOI ?
I seem to remember that any air units on a mission could be intercepted in a province they were traversing.
yeah that was the whole point of interceptors - you could put them at points you knew enemy air was crossing and ambush them
im not really a huge fan of the air game, it never seemed to have any bearing on any operations i planned
Bombing runs were great for opening the fog of war. And they could really ruin units days.
i suppose in my italy aar game having taken all of eastern europe i never came across a decent enemy airforce and by the time i took germany they were too busy with russia
I bet they made air planes teleport over because the AI was having trouble with something something. ::) :P
My brain is dying at the notion that an Army can have as little as one division, and one division can have as little as one brigade BATTALION -- so that an army can be as little as one brigade BATTALION -- but there are no corps.
And I'm someone who runs an extended multi-book joke about a commander being egotistic in calling a group of companies a brigade, and then assigning those companies (once she about triples her numbers from around 200 to around 600 soldiers) into divisions so that she can have an "army". That's supposed to be a subtle satire! :uglystupid2:
I agree this is disappointing and a little hard to fathom why Podcat's team didn't expect serious blowback over this dubious design decision -- but I don't think I'd go so far as to call it game breaking. If only because the strategic air campaign in HOI has always been a bit of a shambles. It's never really worked properly, rather like amphibious invasions. Once again, it won't really work properly. Still, it may represent a modest improvement over HoI3, which is all I can ask for at this is point.
Overall I'm actually a big proponent of the decision in HoI4 to do more to abstract the air war. In HoI3 trying to get air units to behave realistically was an enormous headache in micromanagement. I don't expect HOI4 to completely redress to shortcoming of HoI3, but I do think overall it will be an improvement.
Well it almost completely eliminates the need to tech up interceptors...at least as far as fuel is concerned.
Unless they code it in a way that the bombers don't get intercepted until they are at the target hex however all interceptors in the area have a chance to attack prior to the bomb run. That may work but then what if you set up to bomb runs in different locations where a given interceptor is in range for both?
If they code any interception attacks prior to the bomb run it may work but it really makes fighter escorts worthless then.
Dunno...I guess I can see why they may do it...but don't necessarily agree it's the BEST way to do it.
The OOB is much more concerning in my mind.
Quote from: jamus34 on February 28, 2016, 09:55:06 AM
Dunno...I guess I can see why they may do it...but don't necessarily agree it's the BEST way to do it.
The OOB is much more concerning in my mind.
Judging from the response here and in the Pdox forum, it doesn't appear that anyone besides Podcat thought this was a good way to model strategic bombing...
I'm also in the camp of those who are bitter about the loss of OOB. Still, I'll be able to forgive it if the game winds up being as good as it looks like it is going to be --
I think the order of battle would be a bigger issue if it was a turn based game. Being that it's real time, I felt like trying to juggle a multi layered OOB was taking away from the game.
I probably won't care as long as the end result can be used in a way that makes organizational sense. After all, strictly speaking the only land units on the map in HOI2 (and its descendants like Darkest Hour) are corps. No armies per se exist, but the attachment of an HQ unit to a stack essentially makes that stack, and any nearby stacks benefiting from the HQ, an army. And while divisions do exist as distinct units, they don't operate on the map outside a corps container. So a "corps" can have one division -- meaning it's really only a division. And the labels for the historical units tended to reflect this, with some "corps" being actually labelled a "division" and some being actually labelled an "army".
And I adjusted to that oddity of implementation and made it work, once I understood what the internal logic was supposed to be.
Quote from: OJsDad on February 28, 2016, 02:35:30 PM
I think the order of battle would be a bigger issue if it was a turn based game. Being that it's real time, I felt like trying to juggle a multi layered OOB was taking away from the game.
No question the OOB system in HoI3 left a lot to be desired. It was clunky and needlessly elaborate (the managing of discrete HQ units was a headache). But my hope was that HoI4 was going to streamline things, not just eliminate the OOB structure entirely.
I still marvel at HoI3, in that it is a deeply flawed game that does a lot wrong from a game mechanics and UI standpoint, and yet I still think it's one of the best -- maybe the best -- WW2 grand strategy games ever made. It is Paradox's most paradoxical game (ha).
At this point I just want HoI4 to get released. I'm not thrilled about the loss of the OOB or this newest revelation about strategic bombing. But I still think it's going to be a tremendous game, and much better than its predecessor.
im going to colour myself a logisitcs and micro managing geek - assignment of HQs to divisions and army groups was very RPG for me - you were rooting for each division in each corps because youd made them and out the commanders in charge - it made the OOB much more yours than the games
I found the initial reorg of your armies to be a very tedious chore in HOI3 but once it was done, I liked the system. I liked being able to design my corps hierarchies and fiddle with force composition. As for the bombing, I wish it were more detailed. I played a fun game as the UK and tried to mirror reality by spending the bulk of my IC on building up a massive strategic bombing force. It was micro managing to the extreme but I had a lot of fun plotting nightly raids and tracking their progress. I was able to knock down German industry so badly that the Soviets rolled them over by autumn 1944.
If they go with the teleporting bombers, I doubt I'll bother with the game until it's deeply discounted.
If someone could incorporate the detail of War in the West, knock it down a few notches, and cross it with Making History II and Hearts of Iron 3 I'll be happy.
I like simulations though. Something like a first-person turn-based sim where you're the Commander in chief with a beautifully rendered 3-D office, air ops room, naval map room, war cabinet meeting room. Zoom into maps, draw battle plans, have access to logistics and reports etc, appoint generals. That would be spectacular.
^^ Preach it brother!
C'mon Ubisoft, make that happPPPAARSSCCHHH...!!! :buck2:
(Ubisoft == publishers of the Silent Hunter series which tried the same thing in sub sim, and the goofy-named R.U.S.E. which looked like it was trying this but didn't.)
Although no specific date yet, interesting that some third party sites offering pre-order already....
https://www.instant-gaming.com/en/1284-buy-key-steam-hearts-of-iron-iv/
The fact that they have a listed retail price is significant. If can come to terms with the idiot air interception feature I might take the plunge, but I won't be paying 100% retail.
I'm tempted too, but not until we have some reliable info. On a release date. "2016" is a bit too ambiguous for me.
Has anyone bought anything from " Instant gaming"?
Another site that is listing for pre-orders identifies the time frame as Q2-2016.....who knows if right. I am not going to pre-order until at least there is an official announcement on actual release date. I am guessing we will see just as good pre-order offers or better by then....
HOI 3 was a huge dissapointment on release-although I have played it all patched and expanded with the DLCs and such that I thought it turned into a pretty good game-but HOI 2 is still my favorite. Not sure what to think of this.
Quote from: magnus on March 05, 2016, 10:42:26 AM
Has anyone bought anything from " Instant gaming"?
Yes. Several titles. Its legit. First time buyers though do have to submit a photo of an ID. I thought that was an unusual method of security, but it seemed to work out ok.
Quote from: ghostryder on March 06, 2016, 08:23:55 PM
HOI 3 was a huge dissapointment on release-although I have played it all patched and expanded with the DLCs and such that I thought it turned into a pretty good game-but HOI 2 is still my favorite. Not sure what to think of this.
I never went all the way on III. I have literally several thousand hours into II.
No idea if trustworthy...but suggests May 25 is release date
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/changes-to-the-hoi4-website-and-some-speculation.913602/
That's funny, I was just looking at this myself. I guess all will be revealed tomorrow.
May 25 is sooner than I would have expected.
Hope it's right!
My most anticipated release of 2016... :D
Quote from: sandman2575 on March 14, 2016, 07:29:31 PM
My most anticipated release of 2016... :D
Mine too. Apparently there will be a demo for download prior to release.
I remember when they released the HOI3 demo prior to release and uploaded the full game by mistake.
Quote from: Ian C on March 01, 2016, 08:43:43 AM
If someone could incorporate the detail of War in the West, knock it down a few notches, and cross it with Making History II and Hearts of Iron 3 I'll be happy.
I like simulations though. Something like a first-person turn-based sim where you're the Commander in chief with a beautifully rendered 3-D office, air ops room, naval map room, war cabinet meeting room. Zoom into maps, draw battle plans, have access to logistics and reports etc, appoint generals. That would be spectacular.
That makes me moist.
I cant get into HOI, I need some type of goal thats already set out for me. And it doesnt help that you can choose from any country even though THEY CANT DO ANYTHING THEY SHOULDNT BE AN OPTION
Whereas, most of us like the insanity of optional play choices in Paradox's Europa/Clausewitz engine games. :smitten: I CAN BE THE LAST NESTORIAN KING, ON SOCOTRIA! (and get eventually steamrolled by the Abassayid Empire, duh. But it was fun while it lasted.)
Come to think of it, have they switched to a next generation engine after Clausewitz yet?
Stellaris will be May 9th and their aiming for HoI 4 for June 6th. Paradox just overloaded my summer.
June 6, eh? Very clever, Paradox.
Hope it's not later than that.... Not, you know, like December 7 or something...
I got the impression June 6th isn't set in stone.
Yeah, they made a little skit about the release date and the developer guy said early summer and the boss guy said, so we'll say D-day then. So maybe not exactly June 6.
Even if they miss that date, I don't think it will be by more than a month.
No doubt they'll ship the launch date around, based on how stormy final assembly is.
Quote from: Hofstadter on March 15, 2016, 05:08:16 AM
Quote from: Ian C on March 01, 2016, 08:43:43 AM
If someone could incorporate the detail of War in the West, knock it down a few notches, and cross it with Making History II and Hearts of Iron 3 I'll be happy.
I like simulations though. Something like a first-person turn-based sim where you're the Commander in chief with a beautifully rendered 3-D office, air ops room, naval map room, war cabinet meeting room. Zoom into maps, draw battle plans, have access to logistics and reports etc, appoint generals. That would be spectacular.
That makes me moist.
It isn't a mystery what would work well. It would take one game developer with half a brain to realise this and blow everything else away. Just make a sodding WW2 C-I-C sim.
On the bright side, June 6 looks pretty firmed up as the launch date, according to Pdox -- I don't think they'd have announced a specific date unless they were certain they could deliver. Although delays are not unheard of in the gaming world, as we well know....
@Ian -- I think HOI4 may come closer to your vision than anything else available or likely to become available in the near future. As I've mentioned, I'm most excited about the Battle Planner feature, which should make HOI more operationally focused than any of the previous games in the series. *Love* the idea of drawing up operational plans and OOBs and then having the AI execute. This was already available in HOI3 in a primitive form, but I think HOI4 is going to improve it dramatically.
It appears that World War Wednesdays has been going on since early Dec.
Here's the start for anyone interested:
Quote from: sandman2575 on March 17, 2016, 08:30:28 AM
@Ian -- I think HOI4 may come closer to your vision than anything else available or likely to become available in the near future. As I've mentioned, I'm most excited about the Battle Planner feature, which should make HOI more operationally focused than any of the previous games in the series. *Love* the idea of drawing up operational plans and OOBs and then having the AI execute. This was already available in HOI3 in a primitive form, but I think HOI4 is going to improve it dramatically.
I agree. I've stopped raising false expectations of each game I buy and accept them for what they are (game-breaking bugs aside). I really can't wait.
There will be DLC. There will be mods (it has one of the best mod communities anywhere). It's all good. Roll on June!
While the game looks great when they are playing it with 2 Humans. 95% of us will be playing against the AI. Show me how that is progressing !!!
Quote from: bboyer66 on March 17, 2016, 12:01:52 PM
While the game looks great when they are playing it with 2 Humans. 95% of us will be playing against the AI. Show me how that is progressing !!!
Yea, my only real complaint against HOI3 was the crappy AI. I LIKE managing all my divisions in an attack.
I'd also like to see how the AI fares -- I think Pdox is planning a new 'World War Wednesdays' with one of the devs playing as Japan against the AI.
There are lots of reasons I liked army AI control in HOI3, imperfect as it was -- but one reason was that I liked how it leveled the playing field a bit -- I would give the overarching operational commands and let the AI figure out how to take the objectives. Yeah the AI would do some stupid things, but then, so was the defending AI. Made the game a little more challenging in a good way, IMO.
Quote from: sandman2575 on March 15, 2016, 08:23:10 PM
June 6, eh? Very clever, Paradox.
Hope it's not later than that.... Not, you know, like December 7 or something...
Based on prior versions of HOI? Not sure Paradox gets the significance of December 7.
Quote from: RedArgo on March 15, 2016, 08:56:01 PM
Yeah, they made a little skit about the release date and the developer guy said early summer and the boss guy said, so we'll say D-day then. So maybe not exactly June 6.
Which June 6 are they talking about? This year, next year?
Quote from: glen55 on March 17, 2016, 09:56:28 PM
Quote from: sandman2575 on March 15, 2016, 08:23:10 PM
June 6, eh? Very clever, Paradox.
Hope it's not later than that.... Not, you know, like December 7 or something...
Based on prior versions of HOI? Not sure Paradox gets the significance of December 7.
Too true that USA player could wait around for ages and never get attacked by Japan AI.
*Really* hoping they improve the Pacific War in HOI4....
Quote from: sandman2575 on March 18, 2016, 08:41:45 AM
Quote from: glen55 on March 17, 2016, 09:56:28 PM
Quote from: sandman2575 on March 15, 2016, 08:23:10 PM
June 6, eh? Very clever, Paradox.
Hope it's not later than that.... Not, you know, like December 7 or something...
Based on prior versions of HOI? Not sure Paradox gets the significance of December 7.
Too true that USA player could wait around for ages and never get attacked by Japan AI.
*Really* hoping they improve the Pacific War in HOI4....
Maybe the AI is improved and is smart enough to NOT attack the US.... just sayin....
Quote from: Barthheart on March 18, 2016, 09:16:05 AM
Maybe the AI is improved and is smart enough to NOT attack the US.... just sayin....
Reminds me of the end of the movie Wargames -- "The only winning move is... not to play."
OMG! Paradox has figured out how to recreate WOPR for the HOI4 AI!
Quote from: sandman2575 on March 18, 2016, 12:11:53 PM
Quote from: Barthheart on March 18, 2016, 09:16:05 AM
Maybe the AI is improved and is smart enough to NOT attack the US.... just sayin....
Reminds me of the end of the movie Wargames -- "The only winning move is... not to play."
Also my winning strategy for Tsarist Russia at the door of WW1 in the
Darkest Hour AAR / Grand Campaign HOI2 supermod. Don't
start no World War, there won't
be no World War. (Or not enough for me to even clearly see and so not to care about.)
Another video as the player tries out Japan.....liking what I am seeing so far...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUL1CqC61uA
Interesting video GR...I am also liking what I see so far. Maybe I missed it but did they say anything about automating trade like you can do in HOI3....??
Ugh, should not have watched that video... I know June 6 is only 2 months away, but man do I want to play this game NOW !!
Don't worry, Stellaris will be here before then!
It's an indication of how excited I am for HOI4 that Stellaris is going to be my 'just tide me over' game til it launches...
(Actually really looking forward to Stellaris as well.... it looks like it's going to be fantastic...)
It's the other way around for me. I was really looking forward to HoI4 especially since the previous entries in the series aren't available on Linux. But now it's going to be eclipsed by Stellaris.
I guess I'll buy the first game+dlc packs they release.
Just a small note which won't be very surprising, but amazon.de is showing HoI4 at the same price (40 EUR) as Stellaris, strongly suggesting it will be the same price as Stellaris everywhere else too.
As a modder myself, I'm really looking forward to this: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hearts-of-iron-iv-development-diary-52-modding.920875/
Yeah, official mod tools for HoI4 could really be huge. Folks are going to go to town on this -- exciting!
Ian, did you create any mods for previous HoI games? If so, which mods?
Quote from: sandman2575 on April 18, 2016, 03:29:23 PM
Ian, did you create any mods for previous HoI games? If so, which mods?
Yes - the Clear Map Mod and the first swastika mod for HOI3. In the past I've also modded Superpower 1 & 2, Star Wars Empire at War, and a few others including all of the Making History series.
If I do any kind of modding for HOI4, it will be realism mods. I think other people more skilled than I am have got that covered though.
Cool. Do you recommend the Making History games, by the way? I have both MHII and The Great War, but honestly have never delved into either -- might be a nice way to tide over the excruciating wait til HOI4 comes out :)
Quote from: sandman2575 on April 18, 2016, 03:40:21 PM
Cool. Do you recommend the Making History games, by the way? I have both MHII and The Great War, but honestly have never delved into either
Full disclosure - I have content in both those games which I was paid for. That aside, they are, to quote someone else, 'like Axis & Allies on steroids'.
They are very different games from HOI and have given me a lot of fun over the years. I also respect the people behind it, who are some of the nicest and best people on the planet.
Tomorrow on twitch : https://www.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive
14:30 CEST : World War Wednesday -> Hearts of Iron IV
Quote from: Pete Dero on April 19, 2016, 03:04:59 PM
Tomorrow on twitch : https://www.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive
14:30 CEST : World War Wednesday -> Hearts of Iron IV
For we chronically chronologically challenged US types, I think that is 8:30 Eastern Daylight Time.
Quote from: bobarossa on April 19, 2016, 03:42:18 PM
14:30 CEST : World War Wednesday -> Hearts of Iron IV
For we chronically chronologically challenged US types, I think that is 8:30 Eastern Daylight Time.
Correct : ( http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html )
Brussels (Belgium) 20 april 2016, 14:30:00
CEST UTC+2 hours
New York (USA - New York) 20 april 2016, 08:30:00
EDT UTC-4 hours
Corresponding UTC (GMT) 20 april 2016, 12:30:00