Looks like Wolverine Studios throwing their hat into the ring with an American football game...seems they partnered with the developer from the Professional Football Simulator game. Not much detail yet, but here is a brief blog on it.
http://www.wolverinestudios.com/2015/10/09/are-you-ready-for-some-football-simulation/
Awesome news.
Especially that Brooks is also working on it too. I don't know how well the game outcomes were with Wolverine's college football game, but the later version of Brook's PFS had some very believable stat outputs. The problem with PFS was some of the UI and the weird fits-all-types player rating system. Hopefully those latter bits will be alleviated with Wolverine's far better UI & such.
Wolverine's been talking about doing this for years. I suppose after getting their old Bowl Bound college game up on Steam recently, it lit a fire.
Bowl Bound College is actually from Greydog, not Wolverine...different animal:)
Although I want a good football game, not as encouraged as you. Really never thought PFS got over the hump but maybe that can change with this new partnership. But that is where my biggest concern is, with Wolverine. I personally don't believe they have a great track record, although they put out interesting games. The cycle is usually something like this...
1) Announce a new exciting game, lot of hype and even some beta testing....high excitement at this point
2) For a short time after release, some reasonable support and patches....but doesn't seem to last long
3) The developer disappears from the forums and its like crickets, even though issues seem to remain
4) All of a sudden, the next version is announced and the cycle begins again
Just can't see that being different since every game has been that way.....although I hope I am proven wrong in the end.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on October 09, 2015, 07:18:51 PM
Bowl Bound College is actually from Greydog, not Wolverine...different animal:)
Damn, I get those two mixed up all the time.
Quote
Although I want a good football game, not as encouraged as you. Really never thought PFS got over the hump but maybe that can change with this new partnership. But that is where my biggest concern is, with Wolverine. I personally don't believe they have a great track record, although they put out interesting games. The cycle is usually something like this...
1) Announce a new exciting game, lot of hype and even some beta testing....high excitement at this point
2) For a short time after release, some reasonable support and patches....but doesn't seem to last long
3) The developer disappears from the forums and its like crickets, even though issues seem to remain
4) All of a sudden, the next version is announced and the cycle begins again
Just can't see that being different since every game has been that way.....although I hope I am proven wrong in the end.
Being mistaken about one part of the dev team, this may not be as great a proposition as I originally imagined. But I'll be hopeful because we desperately need some new developments in this genre.
You're right about PFS not quite being finished. It was still missing features. Hopefully these guys can collaborate to get something new to a satisfactory finish.
Greydog is also working on a football game as well.....so at some point we'll have options from OOTP, Wolverine, and Greydog.....the question is, will any of them actually finish their game:)
I know it won't happen, but I would love to see graphics in this.
Reading some more on it...seems like big portion of the game will be pfs with improved gui. I'll take any football game, but this one has me least excited.
As suspected, seems like it mostly will be the pfs engine wrapped in wolverines user interface....some recent info from the developers. If they can improve the engine and actively support the game after release, I'll certainly keep an eye on it.....mostly wondering how close they are to being complete, I am guessing likely in time for next season, but who knows...maybe they surprise us.
Introduction to Draft Day Sports: Pro Football
Hello! I'd like to introduce myself as the latest developer to join Wolverine Studios. I've spent several years as a developer working on various sims, including a football sim called PFS. WS approached me recently and we decided to join forces. With the successful sim engine I've created, combined with the outstanding UI and features that Wolverine Studios is known for, we expect to launch a very exciting new game.
Some of the main aspects of the game include:
Updated and easy to use UI
Single Player, Online Multiplayer, or Sandbox Simulation modes
Fast and accurate sim engine with dozens of detailed statistics and reports
2-d game engine to visualize in-game action
Dozens of settings for customization, allowing for many different league structures, financial settings, and statistical output
Highly integrated multiplayer makes it easy for both commissioner and players to participate online
Historically accurate rosters and teams
Please keep an eye on this blog and the site forum for more details. Over the coming days we will be releasing screenshots of the game as well as diving in to the details of features. Don't forget to head over to the forums and discuss DDS:PF 2016 there as well.
I'm extremely happy to be a part of the Wolverine team, and we're looking forward to working with the community to release Draft Day Sports: Pro Football 2016!
-Brooks
I'll jump on this after it's released.
The biggest thing PFS needed was an improved & better looking UI. Hopefully this provides that big leap. Sure, it could still use some more features, but all the basics were there and the game results didn't have some of the weird anomalies others did (such as FOF's runaway Fumble rates & nutty formation-play AI picks).
Quote from: Nefaro on October 27, 2015, 04:25:42 AM
I'll jump on this after it's released.
The biggest thing PFS needed was an improved & better looking UI. Hopefully this provides that big leap. Sure, it could still use some more features, but all the basics were there and the game results didn't have some of the weird anomalies others did (such as FOF's runaway Fumble rates & nutty formation-play AI picks).
I don't know...from the last version I played, remembered some odd stats and questionable use of players. Maybe they cleaned it up in a later version I didn't try. Every sports game has its warts but certainly willing to give it a try since it is football, but I also have to see this publisher support it and not dsappear like the other games.
Couple more updates....more or less just talking about the features that were already part of PFS...
http://www.wolverinestudios.com/2015/10/28/draft-day-sports-pro-football-2016-feature-discussion-game-modes/
http://www.wolverinestudios.com/2015/10/30/draft-day-sports-pro-football-2016-feature-discussion-league-formats/
Funny thing is I did the logo for PFS years ago.
PE
Quote from: PanzersEast on October 31, 2015, 06:09:23 AM
Funny thing is I did the logo for PFS years ago.
PE
Nice....hopefully they are paying you royalties:). Do you actually play pfs? Any thoughts on it? Seems like this new game will just be pfs in wolverine ui.
Maybe closer to release than I thought....quote from the developer.....
"Our goal is to release it soon - I will give an exact date once I have one"
Couple screenshots...nothing earth shattering yet.
http://www.wolverinestudios.com/2015/11/09/draft-day-sports-pro-football-2016-screenshots/
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on October 31, 2015, 06:30:11 AM
Quote from: PanzersEast on October 31, 2015, 06:09:23 AM
Funny thing is I did the logo for PFS years ago.
PE
Nice....hopefully they are paying you royalties:). Do you actually play pfs? Any thoughts on it? Seems like this new game will just be pfs in wolverine ui.
Sorry I missed your post, I did back in the day.... however there where still a lot of tweaking needed on the engine and I drifted back to OOTP and FM. I really never went back to see how far a long it came afterwards.
PE
Didn't see this coming so fast....release day is tomorrow! Got email from them today......
DDS: Pro Football 2016 To Be Released 12/23/15
Although extremely cautious about this one and the publisher....its American Football and no doubt I will pick up tomorrow:)
I'll definitely be having it before long. Unless it has a bug that accidentally opens a portal to hell or brain-wipes you.
I played one of the latest major PFS versions and the game outcomes (aka statistics) were quite believable for three or four years ago. Better than FOF in my opinion. It just didn't have as many of the intricacies modeled and, while the actual spreadsheet sorting & such was better, the rest of the interface could be troublesome. The AI would also put all it's starters on the special teams by default, so you'd be spending extra time sorting that out. The player rating/values were also a bit confusing, but that's not unusual for football text sims.
PFS just had development time left to go, needing a better and more personable interface and some more depth or extrapolation to some areas added. I think the developer did a great job on the guts of the sim; the game outcomes/stats, which usually have issues for a long time in sports management series.
Looking forward to see how all the improvments & new UI turn out! ^-^
Personally, I still remember some very odd statistics and choices being made by the game and always thought FOF was more believable...but I guess we'll see soon enough. Makes me nervous when you hear very little about a game and then receive a release notice the day before it goes live. Really hoping it turns out good, but I have very low expectations. As I have mentioned in the past, I think Wolverine has a spotty record of supporting products and being involved with the community and I don't suspect that will change with this game.
But regardless, unless the price is beyond what I am willing to pay, I will pick it up tomorrow and give it a chance....I'll be the test dummy for the GH group and post impressions:)
Some good news for people that will be on the fence of purchasing....they announced a demo would be available, that has been pretty typical of their past games as well.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 23, 2015, 08:17:08 AM
Some good news for people that will be on the fence of purchasing....they announced a demo would be available, that has been pretty typical of their past games as well.
That's really good news. I was about to pull the trigger on a bunch of games in my Steam cart but that's now on hold until I evaluate this. It would be great if this filled the shoes left empty since Front Page Sports Pro Football 97 & 98 :smitten:. Yeah, it's been that long since there was a good football game.
Quote from: KyzBP on December 23, 2015, 08:38:49 AM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 23, 2015, 08:17:08 AM
Some good news for people that will be on the fence of purchasing....they announced a demo would be available, that has been pretty typical of their past games as well.
That's really good news. I was about to pull the trigger on a bunch of games in my Steam cart but that's now on hold until I evaluate this. It would be great if this filled the shoes left empty since Front Page Sports Pro Football 97 & 98 :smitten:. Yeah, it's been that long since there was a good football game.
Agreed. Funny how Madden still is no where near the level FPS (in siimulation) and NFL 2k series (in physics) were and those game series ended 2 and 1 decade ago respectively.
EA - destroying everything it touches since 1980!
Quote from: KyzBP on December 23, 2015, 08:38:49 AM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 23, 2015, 08:17:08 AM
Some good news for people that will be on the fence of purchasing....they announced a demo would be available, that has been pretty typical of their past games as well.
That's really good news. I was about to pull the trigger on a bunch of games in my Steam cart but that's now on hold until I evaluate this. It would be great if this filled the shoes left empty since Front Page Sports Pro Football 97 & 98 :smitten:. Yeah, it's been that long since there was a good football game.
Those are some pretty high expectations:) Can't argue that would be awesome if it happened, but I really expect the first release to mostly be focused on transferring the PFS game into Wolverine UI. Plus, I don't believe it is their goal to show the action on the field, besides the 2D circles and squares they have, but maybe someday they will consider it.
In any event, like you I am just excited there might be another American Football game to consider, just hope the developer and publisher do it justice.....they have a good opportunity to beat OOTP Football to the market and also the new version of FOF....they will only have one chance to beat those competitors since once those other new versions come out, tons of people will switch to them because of all the past loyalty.....unless this football game blows them away.
Quote from: jamus34 on December 23, 2015, 08:43:04 AM
Quote from: KyzBP on December 23, 2015, 08:38:49 AM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 23, 2015, 08:17:08 AM
Some good news for people that will be on the fence of purchasing....they announced a demo would be available, that has been pretty typical of their past games as well.
That's really good news. I was about to pull the trigger on a bunch of games in my Steam cart but that's now on hold until I evaluate this. It would be great if this filled the shoes left empty since Front Page Sports Pro Football 97 & 98 :smitten:. Yeah, it's been that long since there was a good football game.
Agreed. Funny how Madden still is no where near the level FPS (in siimulation) and NFL 2k series (in physics) were and those game series ended 2 and 1 decade ago respectively.
EA - destroying everything it touches since 1980!
Although I would love for Madden to be more simulation-like, I think we just have to accept that is not the mission of that game.....their goal is to reach a billion people of casual gameplay versus the much smaller crowd of hardcore sims....would be nice if both could exist, but they are simply going to put their money in the place they can make more money....
Crazy as it seems, the thing I really likely about NFL 2k was the actual halftime show....really felt like a halftime where they went through all the scores and showed actual highlights from the games....that was awesome!
I enjoyed PFS but, even though I don't consider myself a graphics whore, I really like to see the plays being played out by little men. The simulation in PFS was pretty solid. I have high hopes. I do own a couple of Wolverine games. They could support them a little better. Brooks was really good about supporting PFS so maybe that'll carry over.
The demo will be an instant DL for me today.
Quote from: KyzBP on December 23, 2015, 09:07:26 AM
They could support them a little better.
To be honest, this is my biggest concern.....have not been impressed with Wolverine's support and how they treat games...kind of the same thing happened already to Football.
1) Usually get little warning of new releases, they seem to appear out of nowhere...almost an afterthought.
2) Limited support on existing games--seems maybe for a couple weeks after release, a few patches come out....then the company seems to disappear until next year's version comes out
3) Seems like nagging issues don't seem to get resolved
4) Very little support on their forums...maybe with this new developer will be different...but take a look at their football forum now. A major new product that people have always wanted is coming out and its like a ghost town...maybe that changes after release. If I was the developer/publisher, I would be advertising this all over the place and keeping the excitement level high.
5) I own a bunch of their other titles and even beta tested a bunch of them....what has always concerned me is they always seem to have a bug/issue with multiple seasons. You don't notice the issue right away, but at some point after investing a lot of time in a career, the bug pops up and you career is down the drain. Nothing worse then playing many seasons and then encountering something crushing like this.
6) I really hope they have had a secret army of beta testers for this game.....its been odd that they have mentioned nothing. In the past, they freely talked about the beta testing so a little concerned on how much testing this thing has had...unless because it might be just a quick port to a new UI, they aren't worried about that.
I guess we will find out today:) As I mentioned before, I am a sports junky so likely will purchase regardless, I'll at least give them a chance with the first version to see how this all goes down.
Judging by the few screenshots they have, it just looks like PFS with the new UI around it. For this version anyway.
I'm saying that because the middle screenshot from this page (http://www.wolverinestudios.com/2015/11/09/draft-day-sports-pro-football-2016-screenshots/)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wolverinestudios.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F11%2Fwarroom.jpg&hash=0e2b4a52d83f91d95d0699de90009bd02ed1cbb0)
has that exact same old PFS spreadsheet format & font for the table. Which looks like an Excel spreadsheet from MS Office on Windows 3.1 Quite possibly worse. :-\
One of the UI upgrades I had been hoping for also involved upgraded spreadsheet tables & fonts to the new UI standard. Those tiny numbers, and the column headers that don't scroll down when you do, need some serious help.
Quote from: Nefaro on December 23, 2015, 12:57:12 PM
Judging by the few screenshots they have, it just looks like PFS with the new UI around it. For this version anyway.
I'm saying that because the middle screenshot from this page (http://www.wolverinestudios.com/2015/11/09/draft-day-sports-pro-football-2016-screenshots/)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wolverinestudios.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F11%2Fwarroom.jpg&hash=0e2b4a52d83f91d95d0699de90009bd02ed1cbb0)
has that exact same old PFS spreadsheet format & font for the table. Which looks like an Excel spreadsheet from MS Office on Windows 3.1 Quite possibly worse. :-\
One of the UI upgrades I had been hoping for also involved upgraded spreadsheet tables & fonts to the new UI standard. Those tiny numbers, and the column headers that don't scroll down when you do, need some serious help.
Yep, I really think this will largely be transferring the old UI into the new, although not sure if it will be drastically more usable...I guess we'll see later today if they made any other improvements:)
Have you picked it up yet, Grim?
I see it's $34.95
May check out the demo sometime soon.
Their games use limited online activation DRM don't they? ???
I didn't since the release was delayed until late last night....I will hopefully get a chance today, likely will start with demo to make sure just not a UI change:)
My first five minute impression.....the screens are the same as PFS and the menu bar is the same as PFS, just wrapped in some different colors and graphics. Haven't gotten into actually functionality, stats, and such....but on the surface, looks like a reskin so far....of course only a few minutes in:)
From what I can see, maybe two new options/screens...
1) Set a training program...some basic options.
2) Create a custom playbook...haven't looked deep yet
* That's likely why they spoke about those two features in the blog, since everything else already existed
Besides that, on the surface looks the same.......fingers crossed the AI/engine saw improvements.....I am going to do a pre-season quick test because one of my big issues from PFS was related to pre season game sub management.
I posted this on their forum too, but my initial thoughts...at a high-level, I would recommend trying the demo first.....originally I was going to purchase but at least with this first version, it does not seem drastically different to me to warrant spending another $35 on it.....
On the surface with the demo, the screens, menus, options, etc. are largely the same as PFS, but with some different colors and graphics. The training and custom playbook features look new, but everything else roughly looks like same. Can't speak to the actual engine (AI and stats) since not enough time, although one of my biggest issues I had with PFS still exists and might actually have taken a step backwards.
Pre season game roster/sub management......the game does not play backups/starters realistically during pre season games. Even with the strategy to play backups set, my starters (including my QB and RB) played the whole game and in fact my starting QB got hurt in the 4th QTR of pre season game #1. Also I had RB committee selected and my starting RB received all carries in the pre season game.
It certainly will take more time for final judgement, but to me this initial release looks largely like a move to a new UI (although not really drastically new since most screens/menus still are the same, just different colors and graphics). But my initial impression is I believe I originally paid $19 for PFS and not sure why at this point I would spend another $35 without any major advancements. I do hope they stick with it and future versions improve the game.
hhmm...yeah, not looking good so far for me and oddly looks like some things have gone backwards....
Just completed a season where I have strategy set to use my RBs in a committee.....for the entire season, only (2) RBs touched the ball.....one ran the ball 475 times, while the other 6. If I am not mistaken, the NFL records is around 416.
Hate to say it, I think our best opportunity for a good and realistic American football simulation lies with the new version of FOF coming out in 2016.....
Thanks for the update Grim. I had a feeling this was going to happen. :'( Like you, I don't really need a second version of PFS.
Quote from: KyzBP on December 24, 2015, 08:31:11 AM
Thanks for the update Grim. I had a feeling this was going to happen. :'( Like you, I don't really need a second version of PFS.
And that is exactly what it feels like.....although I thought this version would move to a new UI, I thought they would actually improve the UI. But the screens are nearly exactly the same, except being different colors and having a few sprinkled graphics. Really no attempt to improve anything. Although I want to support them, I can't justify paying $35 for something I paid $19 years ago with no major advancement.
Too bad.....although I was skeptical, thought it might have something worth purchasing.......:(
I guess I remain baffled. Anyone even casually following the constant stream of disappointment in the American Football Management Sim community can see that the products continually released fall short of what the community clambers for: A more detailed/in depth version of Front Page Sports Football Pro series with at least Madden 05 graphics. It must have multi-player options, and little things like "Running Back By Committee" should work. I honestly believe the Lions will play the Browns in a Super Bowl before a game like this is produced.
The long wait continues. :-\
sad for sure...this certainly is not the holy grail:(
The recurring Football management sim issue is that the handful of rough and unfinished old versions are just getting small touch-ups and being re-released. :-\
That little roster table screenshot posted months ago kinda tipped me off in this case, as mentioned before in this thread. I had hoped it would be a full conversion into a new UI, but it's not. Hopefully they make advancements over the next few years because PFS had potential if enough is done to get it there.
I recall making my own offensive playbook in PFS, although the interface for it was painful & simplistic. At least that has been improved, from what Grim mentioned. I had been getting sick of getting too many End Around plays called every game in PFS (often 1-3 per game!) so I dug around and found the playbook. Turns out there were more than one End Around plays in the list, IIRC, so the ratio was higher than it should've been. It was just a list with a transfer <-> on/off for each but you had to choose as you went down the list or start again, so it's functionality wasn't done at the time.
No doubt it has always baffled me as to why American Football continues to lag behind other sports, for goodness sake they have day of the week dedicated to them for "NFL Sunday" :)
I continued to play around with this version and it "may" have some bright spots....some of the stats I was seeing were related to depth chart issues that I am guessing they can correct and there is a workaround for it. Pre season still bothers me, but the developer reached out to me and said they were interested in improving that so I provided feedback. Handful of other tweaks needed, but maybe it will grow on me.
Don't get me wrong, still largely the same game as PFS, but "if" the developer at least continues tweaking and improving the engine itself, might be something worth tinkering with until the next FOF or OOTP football...still also think $35 for a reskin was not a great idea for the first version, they should have done for $20-$25 (or at least offered initial discount to existing owners) to entice people to buy it and then when major enhancements included next year, then increase the price...but that is their choice.
Have to be fair to them.....they actually released a patch today on Xmas which did correct a number of stat issues.....still a number of other issues to address, but maybe if they are committed to frequent patching and actually listening to the people, maybe it be something worth purchasing. Even with its warts, I likely would have bought it by now if it was a cheaper price, but going to still hold off for now, but if enough progress is shown, may end up buying.
You put me back on the fence. If they show solid support and dedication to this title then I'll purchase it, if for no other reason than to allow them to develop a better game in the future.
Quote from: KyzBP on December 25, 2015, 08:07:55 PM
You put me back on the fence. If they show solid support and dedication to this title then I'll purchase it, if for no other reason than to allow them to develop a better game in the future.
That's kind of how I am feeling...may wait for another couple of patches just to confirm they won't abandon the support like Wolverine typically does after awhile:) Just make the purchase knowing what it is and is not....if you think this is far different than PFS, then you'll be disappointed. If you think it is basically the same UI and game features, but with possibly improved stats, then it might be worth getting.
Brooks, the developer for PFS, put out regular updates to that previous version for a few years. Near the end there were large expanses between them but at least it wasn't a 3-and-out with the updates, nor was it completely abandoned.
I wouldn't be surprised if he updates steadily for awhile before starting on next year's.
Quote from: Nefaro on December 25, 2015, 10:43:02 PM
Brooks, the developer for PFS, put out regular updates to that previous version for a few years. Near the end there were large expanses between them but at least it wasn't a 3-and-out with the updates, nor was it completely abandoned.
I wouldn't be surprised if he updates steadily for awhile before starting on next year's.
I would agree but the publisher wolverine has the opposite reputation so hopefully the developer over rules in this case:)
I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I must.
I am looking at this game and " Football mogul " on Steam.
Is either any good at simulating historical seasons?
Is there a way in this or any other game to lock in the players for the year?
I still think " Pro League Football " was the best game that was ever made.
Personally, I rank Football Mogul at or near the bottom of my list. I bought it a few years back and didn't enjoy it at all. If I remember correctly, it was pretty buggy and the score/stat results were pretty unrealistic. I wish I could give you examples but it's been awhile.
Quote from: magnus on December 26, 2015, 08:30:20 AM
I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I must.
I am looking at this game and " Football mogul " on Steam.
Is either any good at simulating historical seasons?
Is there a way in this or any other game to lock in the players for the year?
I still think " Pro League Football " was the best game that was ever made.
just want to replay historical seasons? go for http://www.secondandten.com/
Quote from: KyzBP on December 26, 2015, 09:36:12 AM
Personally, I rank Football Mogul at or near the bottom of my list. I bought it a few years back and didn't enjoy it at all. If I remember correctly, it was pretty buggy and the score/stat results were pretty unrealistic. I wish I could give you examples but it's been awhile.
Ditto. I last played it a couple of years ago. In my game, two teams with a combined 5 wins in the real world played for the Super Bowl. The Cleveland Browns won. Sigh. Front Office Football is far superior.
Quote from: magnus on December 26, 2015, 08:30:20 AM
I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I must.
I am looking at this game and " Football mogul " on Steam.
Is either any good at simulating historical seasons?
Is there a way in this or any other game to lock in the players for the year?
I still think " Pro League Football " was the best game that was ever made.
For career football games, I would rank them as the following:
- Front Office Football
- Draft Day Football
- Football Mogul (would never purchase this again....developer does very little to advance it)
If your looking for season replay football games, I would rank the following:
- ActionPC Football (although you have to purchase seasons separately, but more strategy/options available while coaching)
- Second and Ten (all historical pro seasons come free, but feels more like a board game to me with less options, but still a very good game)
- Strat Football (decent game, but seems dated, expensive and they hardly ever add features)
I'll tell you, this football game has me going back and forth...now I am leaning towards not purchasing right now after spending more time with it....think I need to give it a rest:)
- Weather is not modeled in the game, plus no difference between dome and outdoor stadiums
- No CPU to CPU trading or CPU making offers to human player......plus, when you initiate a trade, seems like you can really take the CPU for a ride, especially in taking their draft picks
- No real obvious way to scout opponents so you can adjust your gameplans, unless I have missed it
- Drafting seems a little shaky.....just had a draft where 10 QBs went in first round (5 in a row) and in the 3rd round, 19 RBs were drafted.....seems a little position excessive
- Questionable strategies selected by the CPU (at least for my team)...based on team talent and situations, seems to really favor bizarre strategy/formations...for example, for long yardage situation, it seems to always want to use a power formation and favor run, versus using a vertical/spread type formation that favors passing.
- Some strange scheduling, such as a team having a week 17 bye and divisional opponents playing each other in pre season (I do realize this has happened in the NFL in the past, but believe no longer)
I really think in a strong desire to have a good football game to play, I am trying to somehow justify this is a reasonable game to purchase...maybe should just stick with FOF until its newer version comes out next year.
Thanks Grim, for taking the time to test the Demo.
The issues you're reporting only confirm my initial impression to stay away from this release.
Most of those issues already existed 2 or 3 years ago, the last time I played PFS.
Quote from: Tosh on December 26, 2015, 06:37:31 PM
Thanks Grim, for taking the time to test the Demo.
The issues you're reporting only confirm my initial impression to stay away from this release.
Most of those issues already existed 2 or 3 years ago, the last time I played PFS.
+1.
I have seen the comment mentioned before the game was initially created for online leagues and from what I am seeing, certainly seems like that. It appears the single player mode really needs to be flushed out. With that said, if you were playing in an online league, some of this could be overlooked since you wouldn't be relying on some this stuff.
I am still testing things because I like a challenge:) I've posted a bunch of stuff on their official forums on my findings and if they attempt to resolve these issues, maybe something salvageable...time will tell.....I may just purchase the darn thing so I can see how it behaves beyond the 2 included demo seasons:)
As a side note, I read at OOTP forums they may be close to hiring a replacement programmer for their game so maybe we start to see progress again....I suspect though it likely has put them far behind and skeptical anything will be released in 2016. Next up, FOF 8 :)
Spent some time going through PFS's old forums before Wolverine and it is surprising to see a lot of issues/concerns reported back then, which still seem very relevant today. Really think Wolverine should have taken some time to clear up those issues before releasing, even if the UI did not change. Some of the surprising items raised that may still be a concern:
1) The computer does not use game planning or strategy based on opponent. The strategy is only dictated by personnel, injuries, etc.....not the strengths/weakness of their opponent.
2) Questionable play calling, especially end of half and end of game.......I have seen this some myself when I looked through the logs. For example, my team was down by 6 with under 2 minutes to go on their on 20....they run four straight running plays and this was even with my strategy set to be very pass heavy when trailing under 2 minutes. Game over.
3) Time outs...it appears the older version didn't even have the teams using time outs during the game. However, I have seen the new version use them, but it does appear at times to be questionable uses.
4) One of the biggest older complaints was salary cap and financial planning....this stuff is a little over my head, but seems those issues have carried forward as well. Even not being an expert, I can readily see a ton of teams leave unrealistic cap space. Also, I found it interesting on how you figure out the cap hit to your team if you release a player. They don't actually show you a cap hit number, but instead you set a percent of cap hit globally....you then need to manually take that percent and multiply it by the salary of the player to determine how much of a hit....seems like it would have been much easier to put a field on the screen:)
I have posted a lot of feedback and questions to them, a lot of them are going unanswered even though they are visiting the boards because they answer other questions....maybe they are tired of me pointing out these issues:)
All of that is just more reason to wait and see if Brooks and Wolverine will make the game worth buying...again. With everything you've said so far, I don't see a need to buy this version.
Again, thanks a lot for taking the time to post your experiences with this. O0
Quote from: KyzBP on December 27, 2015, 09:05:19 AM
All of that is just more reason to wait and see if Brooks and Wolverine will make the game worth buying...again. With everything you've said so far, I don't see a need to buy this version.
Again, thanks a lot for taking the time to post your experiences with this. O0
Yep, if your a single player type person, all the signs point to very little reason to buy this instead of FOF at this point...unless you are OK living with all the limitations. I know FOF is not perfect and can be tedious to play at times, but even in a lackluster UI, it contains all the required features and for the most part outcomes/stats very believable.
But for some reason I am drawn to giving this game a chance to see if the developers will actually take the necessary steps to be a true contender and not just a quick money grab before other better games come out.....if they don't, can't see how this game survives, except for multiplayer leagues.
Quote from: magnus on December 26, 2015, 08:30:20 AM
I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I must.
I am looking at this game and " Football mogul " on Steam.
Is either any good at simulating historical seasons?
Is there a way in this or any other game to lock in the players for the year?
I still think " Pro League Football " was the best game that was ever made.
Football Mogul has actually gotten worse over the past two or three years.
They've not really added much at all. Almost nothing other than new rosters and some YAC mechanics. Yet each new one I picked up had become buggier than the previous year's.
It's another sad case of a Football text sim that has some potential but doesn't get anywhere near the development attention it should. I like how you can create your own plays & playbook. The interface is friendly & easy-to-use... when it's not getting screwed up by some mysterious UI bug introduced a couple years ago that the developer couldn't or wouldn't track down & fix.
It's severely lacking in many areas that need to be expanded. A perfect example is player contracts. In the dev's other game, Baseball Mogul, it is dynamic and different players will negotiate with varied goals. In Football Mogul, however, the players just demand the exact same amount simply based upon their overall rated value. No real contract negotiations.
I purchased about three years of them in a row and almost nothing was done with it. That became exceptionally frustrating when compared to all the extra features the same dev had created for that same engine in their other baseball game, years before (the contract negotiation being only one example).
TL;DR
I stopped buying Football Mogul because the developer was doing approximately jack & shit with it year after year. Their focus has been on their Baseball Mogul title and it shows. I lost all hope that FM would receive a similar depth of features.
To be honest, I am amazed that anyone actually buys Football Mogul anymore, they should discontinue it. I guess they can trap a few poor souls into buying it and doesn't cost them much since they put no effort into it. Such a wasted opportunity, seems to be the theme with American Football games:) Even with FOF there has been wasted opportunities....that developer over the years was on and off in making adjustments to the game.....no idea why he never adapted a model of making big yearly new versions (and selling them) like OOTP and other game companies did. If he would have, he would have dominated the market and companies like OOTP/Wolverine wouldn't have even attempted to get in.
Strange decisions indeed since FOF has always been so close in being the holy grail.....maybe with FOF8 it will become this, but I doubt it:)
They just released a second patch to the game.....
After one season simulation, I declare the patch must have broken the game entirely.......the CLEVELAND BROWNS won the Super Bowl !!!!
In all seriousness, nice to see two patches in one week.
ROFL.. Cleveland. :D
I do recall the AI constantly besting me at the Free Agent bidding wars before the season started in PFS. Some of the teams with mediocre rosters would end up with good veterans and kick my ass later because they had the room to afford it.
Not sure what pre-season time period the rosters are set up for on this one but it may be early enough that many of the players who went to free agency are available, which is a big deal. Some sports sims start with first game rosters while a few leave more of the inter-seasonal stuff open on new games.
I broke down and purchased the Steam version of Bowl Bound, despite numerous reports of regular crashes & the need to constantly save.
Not even into college ball much, due to the roster turnover rates for one. But I'm guessing the new FOF with the revised (and MUCH needed) gameplan stuff won't be out until.. next year?
I do enjoy FOF although it has issues and some annoyances in certain areas. I really hope they can ditch that godawful gameplan percentage matrix nonsense. Not only does it seem more like programming than creating an offensive/defensive plan, it's nutty randomness regularly results in the AI (and your own team when simmed) doing nonsense like calling a "Dime Defense keying heavily on the Run" on 2nd & 7. ::)
Quote from: Nefaro on December 31, 2015, 01:58:30 PM
I broke down and purchased the Steam version of Bowl Bound, despite numerous reports of regular crashes & the need to constantly save.
Not even into college ball much, due to the roster turnover rates for one. But I'm guessing the new FOF with the revised (and MUCH needed) gameplan stuff won't be out until.. next year?
Well since tomorrow is next year, that is safe bet:)
The out of eight guy did a video review, but he really didn't get deep into a lot of the issues.....after playing the demo quite a bit, just too many issues/concerns to warrant me purchasing this year. If they actually take all the feedback and make a lot more adjustments for next year, maybe will consider it then.....it appears they are already in typical "Wolverine" mode after releasing a few early patches (really not much fixed/enhanced), pretty much things have slowed down and likely won't see any major stuff until next year. I really think they made a price mistake for the first version since this initial version is not much different then the previous PFS version, should have been for under $20 to get people interested...then in the future when they actually add stuff, then bump up the price.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCkCoIWtqUc
I completely agree.
On the few league sites I visited, seems like most people hesitant to move to the new version...if they can't even get those people to move, will be difficult for new people and single players.
Which, of course, means the game will develop no further due to "Lack of Interest" in this type of game. :idiot2:
Quote from: KyzBP on January 24, 2016, 11:00:43 AM
Which, of course, means the game will develop no further due to "Lack of Interest" in this type of game. :idiot2:
Yep...ultimately I have big expectations for next version of fof, plus bts....so this game likely missed its opportunity anyway