(Reuters) - Hundreds of mayors from across the United States this weekend called for new laws letting parents seize control of low-performing public schools and fire the teachers, oust the administrators or turn the schools over to private management.
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/18/us-usa-education-trigger-idUSBRE85H0J620120618 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/18/us-usa-education-trigger-idUSBRE85H0J620120618)
Wow, SoM is going to freak.
Oh dear, thats not go at all, thinking "to private managment" being the real reason. I just see the corp sponsor teams rubbing hands. Geez and who decides if its a low preforming school ?.
"parent trigger has support from many of the big players seeking to inject more free-market competition into public education, including the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation and the Walton Family Foundation"
This has epic fail stamped all over it.
"Mayors are moving in a new direction on education, one that's more consumer oriented... and focused on serving parents and giving them choices" just like micky D's ,may have drive thu opions..
I wonder if the mayors would support the same ass hatted stupidity regarding the ousting of the incumbents and subsequent privatization of city hall?
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on June 19, 2012, 07:36:49 AM
I wonder if the mayors would support the same ass hatted stupidity regarding the ousting of the incumbents and subsequent privatization of city hall?
In theory that's what elections are about.
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on June 19, 2012, 01:33:08 AM
(Reuters) - Hundreds of mayors from across the United States this weekend called for new laws letting parents seize control of low-performing public schools and fire the teachers, oust the administrators or turn the schools over to private management.
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/18/us-usa-education-trigger-idUSBRE85H0J620120618 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/18/us-usa-education-trigger-idUSBRE85H0J620120618)
Wow, SoM is going to freak.
Because mayors and parents, with all their training in education, are such experts to be able to "fix" public schools. ::)
I say, let's give them a school and let them try it. I've seen this in action. My home school system, where my parents worked for 30+ years, saw a "fiscally responsible," home school advocating, anti-teacher's union guy become president of the School Board. Guess what happened? He oversaw the hiring of a superintendent that spent the school's surplus on needless building projects, the money set aside for future teacher's raises was frittered away, and took a decent scoring standard-bearer school down several performance notches. That "libertarian" school board president acted just like any politician - he stopped listening to constituents and spent money like it was going out of style.
This is one example of several school system in my area that had the same exact thing happen. If folks think that non-professionals can properly administrate a school corporation, they are vastly incorrect. This kind of movement is the step in the wrong direction.
But sure, let those parents get in there. At least it means that they are actually getting involved in their child's education - which is a far cry from the vast majority of public school parents.
^The last comment there is a little unfair.
Quote from: Gusington on June 19, 2012, 03:51:19 PM
^The last comment there is a little unfair.
It's not entirely off base though. I don't know that I would say a "vast majority" of public school parents are uninvolved, but a significant portion of them do not care much about their children's education. At least that was my experience after 8 years working in various public schools.
P.S. Welcome back, Gus! We missed you (at least I did).
Quote from: Gusington on June 19, 2012, 03:51:19 PM
^The last comment there is a little unfair.
Ok, sure. Mirth put it better than I did. You have to realize that nearly all of my friends and my entire family (including many Aunts and Uncles) are primary and secondary schoolteachers. So I have heard a lot of stories of neglect and parental apathy from several decades of experience. So maybe "vast majority" was off-base, but far too many of them.
Mirth's "significant portion" would be better.
Still, I think it is ironic. The parents who think they could run the school better than the professionals seem to be more vocal than parents who are actually able to encourage learning in their children.
Quote from: son_of_montfort on June 19, 2012, 05:11:03 PM
Quote from: Gusington on June 19, 2012, 03:51:19 PM
^The last comment there is a little unfair.
Ok, sure. Mirth put it better than I did. You have to realize that nearly all of my friends and my entire family (including many Aunts and Uncles) are primary and secondary schoolteachers. So I have heard a lot of stories of neglect and parental apathy from several decades of experience. So maybe "vast majority" was off-base, but far too many of them.
Mirth's "significant portion" would be better.
Still, I think it is ironic. The parents who think they could run the school better than the professionals seem to be more vocal than parents who are actually able to encourage learning in their children.
Good points all around.
I think we can all agree that our education system could stand some improvement. Communication, rather than torches and pitchforks, is probably a better way to handle things, but there ya go.
Quote from: son_of_montfort on June 19, 2012, 05:11:03 PM
Still, I think it is ironic. The parents who think they could run the school better than the professionals seem to be more vocal than parents who are actually able to encourage learning in their children.
Sounds like my ex-wife to a 'T'. She spent so much time yelling at other people (school staff, family, medical staff, me...) about what they were doing wrong in taking care of her kids that she never actually got around to doing any real parenting herself. ::)
Quote from: LongBlade on June 19, 2012, 08:00:37 AM
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on June 19, 2012, 07:36:49 AM
I wonder if the mayors would support the same ass hatted stupidity regarding the ousting of the incumbents and subsequent privatization of city hall?
In theory that's what elections are about.
Nice retort. ;D
Quote from: son_of_montfortStill, I think it is ironic. The parents who think they could run the school better than the professionals seem to be more vocal than parents who are actually able to encourage learning in their children.
Funny, the School Boards are are made up of us unwashed masses that are not professional educators, and I'm pretty sure they're the ones running the school districts.
And while your and Staggerwing are correct, the can be a significant amount of parents that don't care about their kids education, its just free day care as far as they are concerned, but that varies widely from not only district to district, but from school to school.
You've also got a fair share of teachers that are more than happy to pay lip service to parents but do not want the parents involved in their childrens education, after all, their only the parents.
Then you have the teachers that have no business in a classroom and should have their teachers licenses revoked, but are protected by the unions. All the while, the unions are wondering why we just wont pass a tax levy so they can get 2.5% pay raises each year.
And finally, lets not forget about all of the experts in our state capitals and in DC. They are constantly changing, tweaking, adjusting and overhauling everything to the point that everyone, teachers, administration, parents, and students have no idea what is going on.
I have to say the US teachers do seem underpaid. With job security, long summers, I would expect a decent teacher to make 45-50k. I remember reading they make 30-40k vs in Canada 55-80 which is unreasonable.
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on June 19, 2012, 07:53:52 PM
I have to say the US teachers do seem underpaid. With job security, long summers, I would expect a decent teacher to make 45-50k. I remember reading they make 30-40k vs in Canada 55-80 which is unreasonable.
We just hired two teachers last night. Both have Masters. One with 6 years and the other with 10 years experience. They're getting $41 and $48.5 plus benefits.
Ohio is getting close to implenting a new merit program to help reward the best teachers and hopefully, get rid of the worst performers. It should be interesting to see how that works out. Of course, if you don't have any money to give pay raises, then it may be a moot point.
I taught in various countries for 15 years and I was forced to follow a "merit" based system at two schools. I can tell you it's a terrible idea that does nothing but fail to provide education to the students. Adopt it and get ready for grade inflation, rote learning, teaching to the test, no failing grades, massive interfence from the administrative body, threats from parents, threats from students, and a poisoned, backstabing faculty.
China is buying its way into universities around the world.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/canadian-universities-colleges-confront-questions-about-chinese-ties/article4353705/ (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/canadian-universities-colleges-confront-questions-about-chinese-ties/article4353705/)
All these broke schools are at risk of being bought. Corporate sponsorships are a bit less onerous, typically they just want their names on the building rather than control of the message.
It all seems screwy. Costs should be falling not going up. Things like edX [size=78%]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18191589 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18191589)[/size]
democratize access to the top schools. Frankly I think this will sink many middle tier schools as well as the crap diploma mills. The same will happen in secondary then primary. As more people work from home via things like skype, the babysitting will not be required. Poor schools will just shut.
Far be it from me to defend the drooling mouth breathers out there, parents, teachers or whatever. I have learned this: do not count on anyone to do hard work for you. If you want your kids to not turn into drooling mouth breathers themselves, you as a parent have to work at it, just like anything else.
I personally live in a village where the majority of people give a crap. It is reflected in the schools (they are amazing). But at home I must work with my girls every day, even if it's just to encourage them or spark curiosity.
So, to tie it back to the article: I'm sure there are tons of communities out there in which the local schools are just horrendous. It takes participation from parents to make schools work well. Without it, well, parents reap what they sow.
This issue links into so many others, it just gets more and more complex. But at the end of the day: try not to produce more drooling mouth-breathers and leave the world a better place than you found it.
Quote from: OJsDad on June 19, 2012, 07:32:31 PM
Funny, the School Boards are are made up of us unwashed masses that are not professional educators, and I'm pretty sure they're the ones running the school districts.
Not every state or system uses school boards and not every school board is made up the same way. And I've seen some VERY bad examples of why non-professional school boards are a bad thing (I gave you one, even). But they don't run the "day-to-day" of the school system, they run the big decisions like hires and fires and they are
supposed to listen to the advice of their administrators. So I disagree that school boards run the districts, they oversee along with the superintendent. The majority of the work gets done by hired employees with professional degrees.
Please don't attribute "unwashed masses" to me. I never said any such thing.
Quote from: OJsDad on June 19, 2012, 07:32:31 PM
Then you have the teachers that have no business in a classroom and should have their teachers licenses revoked, but are protected by the unions. All the while, the unions are wondering why we just wont pass a tax levy so they can get 2.5% pay raises each year.
Protected, but not invincible. A close member of my family was in charge of firing "union protected" teachers. It can be done, and done easily, when a teacher is bad. It may be different outside the Midwest.
Quote from: OJsDad on June 19, 2012, 07:32:31 PM
And finally, lets not forget about all of the experts in our state capitals and in DC. They are constantly changing, tweaking, adjusting and overhauling everything to the point that everyone, teachers, administration, parents, and students have no idea what is going on.
No argument there! The Hoosier state house always has some idea for education. Now Mitch Daniels is getting rewarded for his mucking around with education by being given a position as Purdue University's President! ::)
QuoteWe just hired two teachers last night. Both have Masters. One with 6 years and the other with 10 years experience. They're getting $41 and $48.5 plus benefits.
That pay seems low to me. Average starting salary for a teacher in my area is ~$32K. With a Master's you can get ~$40. Hypothetically a PHd could get closer to $50K, but primary and secondary systems rarely hire PhDs because of the high initial buy-in. With nearly a decade experience for both teachers and an MA, I would have expected more in the $45K range.
Ohio, however is a little weird because of STRS and no Social Security deduction on the paycheck. I'm going to enjoy one of those things immensely, but STRS won't help unless I stay in OH for 5 years.
Teacher don't have *bad* pay, you aren't going to get rich, but you can live comfortably. The benefits help, as do the summers.