This one almost flew under the radar for me - because it was so long since I bought the 4 upgrade and had forgotten that Fortress Italy was not included (for Windows).
Is it about yet? I just looked at the mega pack download and it still doesn't contain 4.0 for FI and I can't find it on their website. As they said it would hopefully be available mid January - 2 months ago - I was wondering if it's buried somewhere I don't know about.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on March 28, 2017, 04:48:27 PM
This one almost flew under the radar for me - because it was so long since I bought the 4 upgrade and had forgotten that Fortress Italy was not included (for Windows).
Is it about yet? I just looked at the mega pack download and it still doesn't contain 4.0 for FI and I can't find it on their website. As they said it would hopefully be available mid January - 2 months ago - I was wondering if it's buried somewhere I don't know about.
No. Not done yet as far as I know. I have learnt not to anticipate stuff from the timetable they give and tend to accept now things are done when they are done. Makes the waiting much easier.
Thank you
I'm just concerned they won't be proactive about sending links or emails to people who bought the bulk upgrade pack and I'll forget I should have it.
Unfortunately, CM Fortress Italy is the only CM title I own.
I might consider other titles if I could experience Upgrade 4 with CMFI.
This is the only CM title I don't own. The Italian front never really appealed to me for some reason. Any particular reason to pick this one up if I have all the other WWII era titles?
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on March 29, 2017, 09:37:40 AM
This is the only CM title I don't own. The Italian front never really appealed to me for some reason. Any particular reason to pick this one up if I have all the other WWII era titles?
Flavour maps and a little oob adjustment that's all
Quote from: undercovergeek on March 29, 2017, 10:31:48 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on March 29, 2017, 09:37:40 AM
This is the only CM title I don't own. The Italian front never really appealed to me for some reason. Any particular reason to pick this one up if I have all the other WWII era titles?
Flavour maps and a little oob adjustment that's all
Thanks...pretty much why I never picked it up.
My main reason for playing CMFI is some of the earlier war stuff and some of the more obscure Italian stuff. I like playing around with non-mainstream units.
IIRC there was something good that came with the Italy release to the engine beyond Normandy, but i cant remember what it was exactly ...and it was later patched into Normandy with v2.0 ...maybe it was AAA working against airthreats? or some AAA in a ground role first time usable at all? and decals and some new commands ...?
I remember that i played a test with a Flakvierling (or the US equivalent 4 x .50 cal) on a halftrack and loved what i saw at that time.
also there was the new arid mountainous terrain in vanilla version and with Gustav Line Module there came snow for the first time ...so that some ppl. were even building 'Bulge mods' for Italy
Italy alone was mostly US fighting in Sicily, and Gustav module brought Anzio and especially famous Monte Casino fight possibilities.
Now with 4.0 patch in all Combat Mission games (when Italy get its 4.0 patch also in a short time) its just about the special landscape and the equipment of participants in the battles that time period and location
I think CMFI/GL is highly underrated. I really enjoy it, the setting, the campaigns, everything. Beyond the different, earlier (and more interesting) OOB, the setting really does play very differently from Beyond Normandy or Red Thunder. Lots of hilly, vertical maps. No bocage to contend with -- though plenty of olive groves and vineyards. Just an interesting and unique experience all around. I guess Italy will always be the neglected theater by comparison with Normandy and aftermath -- but I find it very cool.
Frankly, the CMx2 module that I find redundant is Final Blitzkrieg. Doesn't feel like there's much new content here compared to Beyond Normandy. Yes it's snowing. I dunno -- it's the one CMx2 module I find pretty disappointing.
I always felt that if any CM2 game was just an overblown module, it was CMFB. There isn't a whole lot there that a battle pack and vehicle pack wouldn't have delivered.
I supported all the games like Cmbb, cmbo, cmak, Normandy and Red Thunder. However, I lost interest once they started charging for all the upgrades. I would still rather play Cmbb. I also never see the prices go down much. Therefore, I haven't purchased any of the new games.
I was going to start a new topic but this looks like an appropriate thread, apologies if it is a derail.
My question is: What IS next for BFC, anyway? I don't follow their forums and there seems to be little discussion elsewhere. What is on the horizon next? I've upgraded my CMX2 with the 4.0 engine. CM:FB is out. I'll admit I felt a bit of anticipation for this one. Will be even happier if/when they add Commonwealth troops to CM:FB. For that matter, will welcome the Waffen-SS to Red Thunder, too. But what is the next major release?
What's the buzz among the hardcore CM'ers?
I think the CMFI module is the next "big" thing. Then Steve mentioned a CMBS battlepack. But beyond that, I don't you can count on much. Over the last few years, they always put up this grand plan and then deliver maybe a module a game a year. Then they appear to be moving the CMSF reboot up the priority list. I am guessing that will consume most of 2018. So might not see CMFB until 2019.
It really has felt for a while now that BFC has scaled back their ambitions significantly. We still don't have (or appear to have any hint of) an add-on to Red Thunder, which came out in 2014. (Not to mention Black Sea.) Gustav Line was 2013. They have yet to update their webpage storefront this year (last post is Dec. 24).
I can't say that updating Shock Force feels like 'big news' to me. It's nice, no doubt. But again, just seems evidence of diminished ambitions and expectations.
Thanks, gents. Thought maybe I had missed some big announcement. I am subscribed to their newsletter but it seems to always bring the 'big' news a couple of weeks or more 'after' the big thing has been released.
Sounds like they are in Montgomery mode, 'tidying up their lines' so to speak and bringing the current stuff up to the same standard. Some logic in it, I guess.
Probably a reworking of the entire engine - CM3 so to speak
For some reason, my upgrade never took.
I bought the upgrade, applied it, but Gustav Line was then deactivated. After a few weeks go around with the help desk (they were actually very responsive, but I was traveling so I could not respond timely), I had to deactivate, reinstall and then I managed to get Gustav working again. But the upgrade did not take.
Anyway, after several hours of futzing around with CMFI / GL and upgrade, I just gave up.... and I am out my $10....
As nice and as friendly as the help desk is, they are supporting a stupid upgrade / activation scheme.
I won't be buying any more upgrades until they figure out a better way.
Quote from: ArizonaTank on April 02, 2017, 03:26:24 PM
I won't be buying any more upgrades until they figure out a better way.
They won't, for two reasons. Number
1: People keep buying their games with the shitty DLC scheme, and
B: They keep taking heat
* for the shitty DLC so coming up with a better alternative would be too much like swallowing pride and admitting error.
*Not on their own well policed forums.
I lost interest in all these upgrades, to me, a lousy way to do this plus the games don't go down in price. I am not paying $55.00 for Black Sea when I can get a few other top games for the same price. I have moved to Matrix for most games
Quote from: ArizonaTank on April 02, 2017, 03:26:24 PM
For some reason, my upgrade never took.
I bought the upgrade, applied it, but Gustav Line was then deactivated. After a few weeks go around with the help desk (they were actually very responsive, but I was traveling so I could not respond timely), I had to deactivate, reinstall and then I managed to get Gustav working again. But the upgrade did not take.
Anyway, after several hours of futzing around with CMFI / GL and upgrade, I just gave up.... and I am out my $10....
As nice and as friendly as the help desk is, they are supporting a stupid upgrade / activation scheme.
I won't be buying any more upgrades until they figure out a better way.
I managed to upgrade CMBN and CMRT but for some reason, my Gustav Line was deactivated. My Fortress Italy seems equally useless now.
Quote from: Michael Dorosh on April 06, 2017, 10:28:33 PM
I managed to upgrade CMBN and CMRT but for some reason, my Gustav Line was deactivated. My Fortress Italy seems equally useless now.
well, at least now I don't feel alone, or crazy...;)
I had the same issue also. A couple things:
You need to install updates and patches in specific order and make sure you still have activations for GL. I had an issue where I somehow lost an activation during upgrades. I ended up spending $5 on CMFI 3.0 again to get some back.
This discussion made me go back over and see what the status of the update is. Looks like it is still a little bit before its released. I guess this shows why the product release speed is crawling. If it takes this long and this much effort to fix the OOBs for one game's upgrade, it must take years o develop a new game or module.
Quote from: RyanE on April 07, 2017, 06:04:30 AM
I had the same issue also. A couple things:
You need to install updates and patches in specific order and make sure you still have activations for GL. I had an issue where I somehow lost an activation during upgrades. I ended up spending $5 on CMFI 3.0 again to get some back.
To fix it, I did a complete deactivation, then step by step install. And after a few hours of that (looking for old SNs etc.), I just got a very bad taste in my mouth for the whole process. I gave up once I got to a place where GL was at least working again...even though the new version did not take.
I'm too old and too busy to be spending hours of my life fixing software installs for games when there are so many other great options.
IMHO, my experience with the CMFI patch is an example of the kind of dogged devotion to protecting IP that eventually made Storm Eagle Studios the powerhouse of computer publishing it has become..(lots of dripping sarcasm...;) ): I would hate to see Battlefront go down the same path.
I think BFC recognizes that to some extent. It has gotten better, but every change in DRM strategy seems to come with new issues.
Interesting discussion guys, thanks.
Quote from: RyanE on April 07, 2017, 06:20:36 AM
I guess this shows why the product release speed is crawling. If it takes this long and this much effort to fix the OOBs for one game's upgrade, it must take years o develop a new game or module.
I do find it a bit shocking how long it's taking them to get the 4.0 update ready for FI/GL. When they released 4.0 in December, they mentioned that FI/GL still needed "a little more time" -- well, it has been over 3 months now... and still waiting. Agree it does not bode well for the pace of putting out actual new content, which really doesn't appear to be anywhere on the horizon, since updating Shock Force doesn't really fit the bill.
I think the CMSF upgrade in 2017 is very suspect. My guess is probably mid- to end-2018. That is a whole lot of content and if CMFI is taking 4-5 months just fix OOBs, I can't imagine how long the CMSF modules will take.
And we were already a quarter through 2017, plus all the other things they say they are working on.
Quote from: RyanE on April 07, 2017, 02:14:32 PM
I think the CMSF upgrade in 2017 is very suspect. My guess is probably mid- to end-2018. That is a whole lot of content and if CMFI is taking 4-5 months just fix OOBs, I can't imagine how long the CMSF modules will take.
And we were already a quarter through 2017, plus all the other things they say they are working on.
What if they just do the main game? Have people re-buy it. Then do the modules later and have people re-buy them again. :wow:
Quote from: ArizonaTank on April 07, 2017, 08:30:56 AM
IMHO, my experience with the CMFI patch is an example of the kind of dogged devotion to protecting IP that eventually made Storm Eagle Studios the powerhouse of computer publishing it has become..(lots of dripping sarcasm...;) ): I would hate to see Battlefront go down the same path.
They're working hard on it. ::) To semi-quote and paraphrase a couple of other posters in this or one of the related BFC threads, the CMFI module that I payed for is FUBAR(unplayable). When I think of trying to fix that or else upgrade my CMBN or CMRT modules, I consider all the hoops that I'd have to jump through and I end up playing something else instead. I have a feeling that BFC won't get any more of my money until they either move to Steam or otherwise lighten up on the DRM. (When hell freezes over)
Edit: I just checked out of curiosity. My CMRT module that I payed for doesn't work either! CMBN still launches (for how long? ???) CMFI and CMRT are both down for the count until I feel like jumping through whatever hoops BFC has lined up. No thanks. >:( Grats on getting so much money from me in the first place, though. Imagine how much shit I would take if I dared make this post on their forum. :o
Quote from: jomni on April 07, 2017, 05:14:24 PM
Quote from: RyanE on April 07, 2017, 02:14:32 PM
I think the CMSF upgrade in 2017 is very suspect. My guess is probably mid- to end-2018. That is a whole lot of content and if CMFI is taking 4-5 months just fix OOBs, I can't imagine how long the CMSF modules will take.
And we were already a quarter through 2017, plus all the other things they say they are working on.
What if they just do the main game? Have people re-buy it. Then do the modules later and have people re-buy them again. :wow:
I suspect even the main game won't make it in 2017. There is a lot of updating to do on OOB, models, as well as functions. And then there the rebuilding of scenarios that would need to be done because of changes in gameplay and AI. BFC doesn't exactly have the best track record on releasing at anything close to estimates. They should write down an estimated release time, double it, and then say something publicly.
Another stealth release...CMFI 4.0 is out. Now the install fun starts.
Fun's already started. They require reactivation of all CMFI products...CMFI, 3.0, GL. Guess what...no activations left for CMFI. Looks like another trip to the help desk. I can't believe what they put you through to play their games.
I have now tried activation 3 times and no luck. My install and activations seem to be completely borked. Read through the CMFI thread and a number of people are having issues and are completely confused. I have read the install instruction 6-7 times and am still not sure what I am doing.
What a mess and a shame that such a good game continues to be hobbled with incompetent DRM.
In fairness to Battlefront, I was able to purchase the upgrade and install it with no problem. But the instructions on the site were very confusing, contradictory, and alarming. The instructions suggested I was simply getting an upgrade patch (both versions 3 and 4 with a "light" update included for just version 4 in case I had already upgraded to 3, which I had). But what I got was a full install of the game (now confusingly referred to as version 2). In red text, they warned about having to re-activate and admitted it was a hassle.
As it turned out, these instructions and warning weren't necessary as the install and re-activation went fine and told me exactly what to do.
After a 14 year break from CM, I'm starting to get back into it and intend to buy the other titles. But their upgrade process makes me appreciate the Matrix approach. I have upgraded / patched Command: Modern Air and Naval Operations probably over 20 times with ease and never a problem.
Exactly...I got it running, but again consider billing BFC for my time wasted.
I think I read on the BF forum that a full install negates most of the registration hassles. But who knows, it's hella confusing. I've not yet got the 4 upgrade and will probably wait a while until things have settled down.
It doesn't negate them. Its just a beta tester recommendation to make sure you don't have any legacy issues leftover from other installs. Kind of makes sense except the 5 gig download vs a 400 meg download.
btw, Steve seems to be a little more humble with regards to people having issues getting the upgrade to work. Still does a lot of butt-covering, but isn't jumping down people's throats who complain.
User documentation is definitely not their strong suit. Engineers make lousy writers, which is why larger companies hire technical writers specifically for that purpose (friend of mine works for the local cable/tech company as a manual writer).
Still remember some of the old third party software for CM - Gordon Molek's CMMOS, the Cocat maps, etc. - all of which also had pretty confusing and unintuitive interfaces and documentation. Getting stuff to actually work as the developer intended while reading their instructions was kind of a victory in itself.
I've also had an issue with Matrix's drm, when adding a dlc/module to it. This kind of drm isn't easy to do, and its natural that with modules being part of the core battlefront business, they go wrong a lot
Not sure what the solution is. I understand them not wanting to put everything through steam; not only for the perceived hit in revenue but also there are people around who still think steam will turn their microwave into fbi video surveillance.
I would assume steam would bring in enough customers to offset both those losses, but strategy game companies other than paradox seem to be very cautious about throwing everything they have into steam.
Quote from: dinsdale on April 11, 2017, 11:35:41 AM
I've also had an issue with Matrix's drm, when adding a dlc/module to it. This kind of drm isn't easy to do, and its natural that with modules being part of the core battlefront business, they go wrong a lot
Not sure what the solution is. I understand them not wanting to put everything through steam; not only for the perceived hit in revenue but also there are people around who still think steam will turn their microwave into fbi video surveillance.
I would assume steam would bring in enough customers to offset both those losses, but strategy game companies other than paradox seem to be very cautious about throwing everything they have into steam.
I'm curious. Other than entering a serial number....what DRM does Matrix have?
They had a serial for one of the add ons to the ageod games which looked for the main game and couldn't find it. I think it was the Roman game, can't remember now other than my surprise at how quick the tech support was
I've gotta say that you are the first person I kow of to have an issue with Matrix DRM. Plenty of people have had issues with downloads and corrupt files. I have probably bought 50-60 items from Matrix and simple serial number with no DRM application running.
BFC has recently admitted several times that the DRM scheme is not very user friendly. They keep changing and adjusting it. CMSF was a nightmare if installing without the unlicensing tool. CMBN was only slightly better, but became kind of a nightmare with the module addons. Recently, it has gotten a lot better. But every release is a new adventure in detailed DRM instructions. And every time Steve swears this pain will make the next time easier. And here we are again with people running around confused.
Quote from: RyanE on April 11, 2017, 02:10:11 PM
I've gotta say that you are the first person I kow of to have an issue with Matrix DRM. Plenty of people have had issues with downloads and corrupt files. I have probably bought 50-60 items from Matrix and simple serial number with no DRM application running.
BFC has recently admitted several times that the DRM scheme is not very user friendly. They keep changing and adjusting it. CMSF was a nightmare if installing without the unlicensing tool. CMBN was only slightly better, but became kind of a nightmare with the module addons. Recently, it has gotten a lot better. But every release is a new adventure in detailed DRM instructions. And every time Steve swears this pain will make the next time easier. And here we are again with people running around confused.
BFC has a much higher frequency, but self made drm will always spawn issues. The alternatives require paying someone else money.
Have you read the installation instructions for graviteam's games? This is not a problem exclusively owned by Battlefront.
Graviteam might not be the best example for your argument. They went to Steam for exactly that reason. There are still a few intracacies in patching, but its 100 times better now on Steam. I just wish BFC would smarten up on it.
I don't even consider Matrix DRM. Its a one time order verification. There are no online connections, no limited installs, and no virus-activating monitoring apps.
Also, I don't think BFC's DRM is self-made. I think they license something. The old one was called eLicense. I forget the name of the new one. I remember one of the BFCers mention they pay for the DRM use.
Quote from: RyanE on April 11, 2017, 04:57:28 PM
I don't even consider Matrix DRM. Its a one time order verification. There are no online connections, no limited installs, and no virus-activating monitoring apps.
Yeah, and the lack of DRM nightmares is exactly why Matrix/Slitherine is on the verge of going out of business.
.
.
.
.
Oh, wait ...
Quote from: RyanE on April 11, 2017, 04:57:28 PM
Graviteam might not be the best example for your argument. They went to Steam for exactly that reason. There are still a few intracacies in patching, but its 100 times better now on Steam. I just wish BFC would smarten up on it.
What Graviteam is doing now doesn't erase what it took to install their games before. Glad they've seen sense though.
I think steam or drm free is the way to go, I don't disagree with you. What I do see though, is the futility in waiting for an extremely conservative company gambling on everything they have stood against the last 10 years. I haven't been to the battlefront forums for a long time, but last I remembered they weren't exactly welcoming of criticism or suggestions about anything at all.
So $20 or $40 per year and a few hours to a few days of installation torment is the buy-in to play CM. Thats it. Given their business philosophy, I don't think thats going to change and given the shittyness of their DRM, which I'm shocked is a paid product BTW, I don't see any alternatives.
Quote
I don't even consider Matrix DRM. Its a one time order verification. There are no online connections, no limited installs, and no virus-activating monitoring apps.
Its one time every patch. Which means its many times. I don't consider it onerous, I only brought Matrix up because the one time I bought an add on from them it wouldn't install. Glad you haven't had an issue, that doesn't mean there aren't any.
Actually, its not one time every patch. It shows the license page, but its already filled in and you just hit enter. And again, its not online. No server connection needed. Again, verification of purchase only, not true DRM. It is probably the minimum of what you can do if you sell on line. Uness you give the software away.
I am not sure why you are going on about Graviteam. They are the poster child of what BFC should follow. A screwed up patching system, customer complaints for a couple years, move to Steam. Its exactly what BFC should do.
Quote from: RyanE on April 12, 2017, 07:57:53 AM
Actually, its not one time every patch. It shows the license page, but its already filled in and you just hit enter. And again, its not online. No server connection needed. Again, verification of purchase only, not true DRM. It is probably the minimum of what you can do if you sell on line. Uness you give the software away.
I am not sure why you are going on about Graviteam. They are the poster child of what BFC should follow. A screwed up patching system, customer complaints for a couple years, move to Steam. Its exactly what BFC should do.
BFC on Steam for easy updates/upgrades......that would be awesome. It did the trick for me with Graviteam and would do the same with BFC. :notworthy: