Hey friends, I couldn't find a thread for promotion so I hope you don't mind me creating a new thread. I'm writing because I'm launching a new podcast today! It's called Retro Dogfight, and it's two other old flight sims grogs and myself talking about classic flight sims! I couldn't find a podcast talking about old sims, so I decided to make my own!
You can listen, subscribe, and learn more here:
https://www.retrodogfight.com
And join our Discord here, if you'd like:
https://discord.retrodogfight.com/
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Let me know if you ever need a Subject Matter Expert for any of your casts. Retro sims are my jam. :ThumbsUp:
Ohhh, which are your favorites?
Quote from: SpaceGameJunkie on May 01, 2025, 01:53:58 PMOhhh, which are your favorites?
Pretty much all of them, but certainly the Falcon series, the Jane's series, all of the old Microprose classics all rank at the top of the list.
If you could pick one, as your favorite sim, which would it be?
Please make sure you keep dcs as part of the podcast? I don't think their is s podcast specifically for dcs?
Not really into retro flight sims nut it might be fun to hear stories about the older one.
Wait, sorry, what are you asking?
Do you cover DCS world in your podcast at all?
DCS isn't really retro, but its lineage is. I think Flanker and Flanker 2.0 and LOMAC would be fair game for coverage.
As far as picking only one sim as an all time favorite, I'm not sure I can do that. I've been thinking about it all night.
I might be able to pick favorites in categories, ie. Modern aircraft, jets, helos, WWII, etc. but picking just one seems impossible to me. I'm still thinking about it, but picking just seems out of reach for me.
Do you have one?
Quote from: Destraex on May 02, 2025, 02:44:01 AMDo you cover DCS world in your podcast at all?
No. We'll cover the games it came from, like SU-27 Flanker, for example. Was I not clear in explaining the whole thing?
I mean, there are already other podcasts that talk about DCS. This one, for example. (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/air-combat-sim/id1661963020) I couldn't find a podcast that talked about the old stuff, or as I like to call it, the good stuff, so here we are. ;)
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on May 02, 2025, 04:57:04 AMDo you have one?
Yup. Gunship 2000. Has pretty much everything I want in a flight sim.
Quote from: SpaceGameJunkie on May 02, 2025, 05:19:53 AMQuote from: Jarhead0331 on May 02, 2025, 04:57:04 AMDo you have one?
Yup. Gunship 2000. Has pretty much everything I want in a flight sim.
Definitely on my top 5 list.
European Air War :RockOn:
Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 02, 2025, 05:38:26 AMEuropean Air War :RockOn:
One of my co-host's favorite sim. So good.
Chuck Yeager's Air Combat was my first. I also had a WW1 title at about that time that I don't think was RB3D. Then I guess Rowan's Battle of Britain, CFS3. Does IL2 '46 count as retro?
Quote from: Father Ted on May 02, 2025, 12:44:44 PMChuck Yeager's Air Combat was my first. I also had a WW1 title at about that time that I don't think was RB3D. Then I guess Rowan's Battle of Britain, CFS3. Does IL2 '46 count as retro?
Yeah, it's on our list.
I'd say rowan's BOB definitely needs a modern redo. It had a campaign that was the WWII version of the falcon campaign. So immersive playing as the RAF and seeing the campaign map that looked like the pictures of fighter command HQ and the sounds of phones ringing and women plotters moving the plane icons across the board.
Microprose should have done that one for retro remake, it's turn key as is. Just needs the graphics updated to 2025 DX12 standards. If you can get the current version to run, it might be worth a playthrough. There's a mod that adds a ton of content too.
Let's not all forget Mig Alley.
Quote from: Skoop on May 02, 2025, 03:25:31 PMI'd say rowan's BOB definitely needs a modern redo
Double ooosh
Quote from: SpaceGameJunkie on May 02, 2025, 05:19:53 AMQuote from: Destraex on May 02, 2025, 02:44:01 AMDo you cover DCS world in your podcast at all?
No. We'll cover the games it came from, like SU-27 Flanker, for example. Was I not clear in explaining the whole thing?
I mean, there are already other podcasts that talk about DCS. This one, for example. (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/air-combat-sim/id1661963020) I couldn't find a podcast that talked about the old stuff, or as I like to call it, the good stuff, so here we are. ;)
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on May 02, 2025, 04:57:04 AMDo you have one?
Yup. Gunship 2000. Has pretty much everything I want in a flight sim.
Fair enough. If you
Don't play it, you don't play it. I know DCS was not in your podcast brief, but no harm in asking.
I don't think I have found a podcast that does DCS justice yet.
Good luck with your podcast. I will probably have a listen at some stage out of curiosity, but am not as interested in older sims. What I would be more interested in is a comparison between newer and older sims.
Nah, DCS is all about switchology and not about gameplay, in my opinion. That's fine for folks who want it. That's just not me.
Starting a podcast isn't difficult. Why not start your own DCS podcast?
Quote from: SpaceGameJunkie on May 02, 2025, 05:21:35 PMNah, DCS is all about switchology and not about gameplay, in my opinion. That's fine for folks who want it. That's just not me.
Starting a podcast isn't difficult. Why not start your own DCS podcast?
I have toyed with doing a podcast in the past. However I don't specialise enough for long enough in one game for that to work well. Streaming would be more what I would end up doing and absulutely everybody is doing that, many without adding much new content or value to the scene.
As for DCS being a switch simulator. I guess it can be more of a study simulator in some respects. Some of the ww2 and cold war aircraft in DCS beg to differ though.
Now I am interested in whether you like lock on or flaming cliffs?
Quote from: Father Ted on May 02, 2025, 12:44:44 PMChuck Yeager's Air Combat was my first.
Same here. My laptop at the time had a sort of trackball mouse built into it which made controls very interesting. There was another one around that time that was like Combat Flight Simulator that I remember enjoying but not sure what version it was?
Haven't flown a flight sim since IL-2 1946! Started with F15 Strike Eagle (Atari 800?). Airwarrior 2 on Genie (not really a flight sim, just arcade). Then tried AirWarrior and had to learn how to fly. Also played Red Baron, SWOTL (arcadey), EAW, PAW, Rowan's BoB, and Mig Alley. Longbow Gold was also great. Never liked jet sims with missiles/radar as there was too much learning curve.
Quote from: Destraex on May 02, 2025, 06:44:35 PMNow I am interested in whether you like lock on or flaming cliffs?
Haven't played them. After playing the Flanker games I realized they're a little too high fidelity for me.
Quote from: bobarossa on May 02, 2025, 07:45:52 PMNever liked jet sims with missiles/radar as there was too much learning curve.
Have you played F-117A? Very easy to get into, very fun.
Retro sims for me hold a sacred place in my soul. I remember them so fondly, having spent countless hours exploring these wonderful sims. They are truly part of some of my greatest memories. The problem for me is that most of them have just not held up to the test of time. The genre has evolved so much and in so many ways since the 90s and early 00s that I tend to get very little satisfaction out of playing them now. I will buy them on gog or steam and then spend almost no time p,aging them because their ancient graphics, sounds and archaic UI frustrate and even take away some from the magic that remains in my mind.
I'm just not sure I agree. Sure, the graphics are old, but the gameplay just shines above all that. Like, I was playing 1982's Hellcat Ace for the first time recently, and I was shocked at how compelling it was given the super rudimentary graphics.
But I get that some folks can't go back that far and enjoy a game. I feel fornutate that I still can.
I just wish that old and retro sims were smarter when it comes to peripherals. With all the hardware controllers connected to my gaming PC that often means trouble.
I have a USB hub with power switches for each individual port to help with this very problem. I almost always have the gamepad on, but when flying something, I turn that off and turn the joystick port on. It works wonderfully and I highly recommend it.
Quote from: SpaceGameJunkie on May 03, 2025, 05:02:57 AMI have a USB hub with power switches for each individual port to help with this very problem. I almost always have the gamepad on, but when flying something, I turn that off and turn the joystick port on. It works wonderfully and I highly recommend it.
I'll have to investigate this. Not so much for retro sims (I'm in the Jarhead camp on these), but more for a whole slew of games (mostly FPSs) that I "can't" play because they interpret my throttle, etc as mouse input, WASD keys and so on. This could be a solution, TY.
Quote from: SpaceGameJunkie on May 03, 2025, 05:02:57 AMI have a USB hub with power switches for each individual port to help with this very problem. I almost always have the gamepad on, but when flying something, I turn that off and turn the joystick port on. It works wonderfully and I highly recommend it.
Good idea. I never got my pedals to register for the rudder in IL-2 '46. Maybe that would help.
Oh you guys, it's marvelous. Some games only see my stick, which is one device. Some games are my entire HOTAS, which is three devices. This hub allows me to tailor which devices my PC sees for each game. It's amazing.
This is the one I have, FYI.
https://a.co/d/h1bAOLV
Hey friends, episode 2 of Retro Dogfight is out, wherein we look at the three LucasFilm WWII sims!
https://www.retrodogfight.com/02-a-look-at-lucasfilm/
I would listen to an episode on Xwing, tie fighter. Kinda in the same vein as retro flight sims.
Quote from: Destraex on June 02, 2025, 05:48:00 AMI would listen to an episode on Xwing, tie fighter. Kinda in the same vein as retro flight sims.
I have a different show for that.
https://www.spacegamejunkie.com/podcasts/sgj-podcast-188-x-wingtie-fighter-series/
Ahhh nice.
Sweet! Thank you and a request for some Mig Alley by Rowan attention at some point!
Quote from: Dammit Carl! on June 03, 2025, 08:17:29 PMSweet! Thank you and a request for some Mig Alley by Rowan attention at some point!
We're going in chronological order, so we'll definitely get there at some point. It'll be a while though.
I'm ashamed to admit this but I used to plan multiple raids on aircraft factory targets in SWOTL as the allies and let the computer handle those missions. Then I'd jump into a fighter, cross the channel and obliterate a V1 site which was pretty easy to do.
This was an exploit where the computer handled missions performed better if the human controlled mission was a success. The more successful the human controlled mission the more devastating the computer controlled raids. After a few missions I brought the Luftwaffe to it's knees and was able to bomb targets all over Germany with absolutely no opposition.
Quote from: W8taminute on June 20, 2025, 07:36:56 PMI'm ashamed to admit this but I used to plan multiple raids on aircraft factory targets in SWOTL as the allies and let the computer handle those missions. Then I'd jump into a fighter, cross the channel and obliterate a V1 site which was pretty easy to do.
This was an exploit where the computer handled missions performed better if the human controlled mission was a success. The more successful the human controlled mission the more devastating the computer controlled raids. After a few missions I brought the Luftwaffe to it's knees and was able to bomb targets all over Germany with absolutely no opposition.
Hah. Honestly I am not surprised by this at all. That's amazing.
My brother used to drive a B-17 into Germany in SWOTL, land near his target which effectively put him under the AI's ability to target with interceptors, roll up to it, drop a bomb at 0 feet (because most of the target would be flat paint on the ground and there wasn't code for the bombs to damage the bombers), and then drive back to the coast shooting up and bombing targets of opportunity along the way. At the coast he'd take off and cross back to England without anything chasing him because the AI would see nothing in the sky to chase and so wouldn't even launch interceptors upon ground damage.
It's possible that was in the prior game, but I know he (and I) played SWOTL more.
I think only SWOTL had the B-17, so it was probably that one.
Friends, episode 3 is out, in which we discuss the earliest text-based flight sim games. Yay!
https://www.retrodogfight.com/03-early-text-based-flight-sim-games/
Before the internet was widely known, before the term "PC" was a thing, we moved a crosshair across a mainframe terminal's screen.
My first job out of college (electrical engineer) in late 70's was to help design a digital flight simulator for the FAA. They wanted something to help them understand the digital cockpit that was coming out in the Boeing 747. I designed and programmed the displays (HP oscilloscope tubes, Smith Industries graphics generator and DEC minicomputer). Based it on NASA documents about advanced flight displays (path in the sky). Was a ton of fun. A few months after delivering it to FAA, NASA swooped in and confiscated it because it wasn't the FAA's job to investigate advanced flight controls!
Quote from: bobarossa on July 03, 2025, 09:57:43 AMMy first job out of college (electrical engineer) in late 70's was to help design a digital flight simulator for the FAA. They wanted something to help them understand the digital cockpit that was coming out in the Boeing 747. I designed and programmed the displays (HP oscilloscope tubes, Smith Industries graphics generator and DEC minicomputer). Based it on NASA documents about advanced flight displays (path in the sky). Was a ton of fun. A few months after delivering it to FAA, NASA swooped in and confiscated it because it wasn't the FAA's job to investigate advanced flight controls!
Holy shit, that's amazing!!! What a career!
Quote from: SpaceGameJunkie on July 03, 2025, 12:11:38 PMHoly shit, that's amazing!!! What a career!
It was all downhill from there :tickedoff:
Side note: The FAA's manager was married to a woman who's family owned strip clubs. Every place we went on that project the FAA boss ended up taking us to a strip club!
Quote from: bobarossa on July 03, 2025, 02:49:52 PMQuote from: SpaceGameJunkie on July 03, 2025, 12:11:38 PMHoly shit, that's amazing!!! What a career!
It was all downhill from there :tickedoff:
Side note: The FAA's manager was married to a woman who's family owned strip clubs. Every place we went on that project the FAA boss ended up taking us to a strip club!
*tugs at collar* Yeeeeeeee
As a retired FAA controller, all I can say is... sounds about right. :twirl:
Friends, episode four of Retro Dogfight is out today, in which we talk about some of the earliest MicroProse games like Hellcat Ace and Spitfire Ace!
https://www.retrodogfight.com/04-early-microprose-sims-the-ace-series/
Friends, the latest episode of Retro Dogfight is out! This time, we're looking at some of MicroProse's earliest hits, including F-15 Strike Eagle, Gunship and Project Stealth Fighter! Yay!
https://www.retrodogfight.com/05-microprose-takes-off/
Friends, the latest episode of Retro Dogfight is out, and this time we discuss F-19 and F-117A!
https://www.retrodogfight.com/06-f-19-stealth-fighter-and-f-117a-nighthawk-stealth-fighter-2-0/
Played as much F-19 as I could back then. And the LHX demo.
Quote from: mbar on October 02, 2025, 11:05:10 AMPlayed as much F-19 as I could back then. And the LHX demo.
You should revisit the full LHX game, it holds up.
Friends, the latest episode of Retro Dogfight is out, in which we take a deep dive into not only F/A-18 Interceptor, but also the Amiga itself.
https://www.retrodogfight.com/07-f-a-18-interceptor-and-an-education-on-the-amiga/
Friends, the latest episode of Retro Dogfight, in which we look at the Air Warrior series, is now out for your podcatching pleasure. Thank you so much for listening, and happy New Year!
https://www.retrodogfight.com/09-the-air-warrior-series/
Glad y'all finally got around to Air Warrior!
I first ran across it when they had a booth at Origins in Baltimore in 1987, still have the "disc" they were giving away:
(https://i.postimg.cc/SQzt0YB6/Image1.png)
We played it some on GEnie, but it wasn't till it came on AOL that I could afford to play as much as I wanted. My expendable income was going towards attending all the 125th ACW events anyway.
When it showed up on AOL I got hooked. Still miss it, and MPBT Solaris and the Aliens game and the other stuff from Kesmai.
Found this just now while listening to the podcast:
https://www.cgwmuseum.org/galleries/issues/cgw_67.pdf
<S!> BZ forever!
I remember getting a disk from Genie that let me play 40 hours for free on their service. Played Air Warrior 2 and loved it. When the free hours ran out it switched to I think $2/hr. My first credit card bill shocked me and I had to start watching my hours. They came out with Air Warrior 3 and my video card wouldn't run it. I was hooked on flight sims by then and switched to Warbirds (done by same company that developed Air Warrior). Warbirds was much more of a sim as I learned when I tried to turn my plane by yanking the stick and promptly spun into the ground.
Lovely memories of Air Warrior y'all, thanks for sharing! I had no idea it was so formative for so many people. I hope the upcoming Steam releases do well.
Y'all talking about "black dots" made me laugh. First time I got in game I flew around for about 15 minutes wondering where the hell everybody was. I was up pretty high, and eventually it occurred to me to go see what all those little black dots were...
I talked a couple friends into playing when it went on AOL, and we got recruited into a squadron. I think the squadron had maybe 20-30 members, it sure made the game more fun to have folks to fly with. We did some death star runs too. One of the guys was really good at dogfighting in the A26 of all things, was pretty funny.
My buddy and I would occasionally (usually after drinking a bit) grab a couple flak panzers and drive for an hour or two across the map (its a pretty big map if yer in a flak panzer) to an enemy airfield and vulch em from the ground at the end of the runway. This usually stirred up a hornets nest.
I learned what the "rope a dope" was, after being the dope more than a few times. I learned the difference between B&Z and turnfighting. I looked desperately for a copy of Robert Shaw's book lol. Some of those guys were scary good. I had just as much fun running paratroops in a C47 as I did dogfighting.
At the time, it was the coolest game going, at least to us.
Our squadron mates were also organized as a unit in the Multiplayer Battletech Solaris game so we played that with them once in a while for a change of pace. Or Aliens Online, or Jack Nicklaus Golf, or Virtual Pool, or whatever that game was that was sort of like Quake with Wizards. But mostly we flew Air Warrior.
EA killed it all.
What a lovely post. Thank you for sharing!
Friends, in the latest episode of Retro Dogfight, we take a holiday break from reviewing a game or two to answer many, many user questions!
https://www.retrodogfight.com/10-qa/
Man, this podcast is great. I only just started listening. Thank you for putting this out into the world. It has gotten me itching to try my hand at a flight sim.
To that end, I picked up Apache Longbow (https://www.gog.com/en/game/apache_longbow) from GOG. I hope it accompanies a board game (https://dvg.com/product/thunderbolt-apache-leader/) that I received as a gift that I have yet to crack open but intend to this Spring. Finally, CS Vietnam is one of the best wargames ever, and that has helicopters. Why not expand my horizons!
Thank you so much for listening, so glad to hear you're enjoying it. I do hope you enjoy Apache. If you like it, try its follow-up Hind, it's even better. :)
And then there's Apache vs Hind, which exists! {g} Though its sequel/expansion Comanche vs Hokum is deservedly more famous.
Quote from: Bardolph on January 02, 2026, 09:46:40 PMI looked desperately for a copy of Robert Shaw's book lol.
Maybe not terribly on-topic, but I have a copy of that! Hasn't done me any good, mind you...
Lol! I eventually found one, years later. It was rumored back then that if you saw a lone P-51 high up, carefully picking its targets that it could very well be Shaw.
I doubt reading it would have helped me much either, I think the big difference was the sheer number of hours some of those guys had put in. I had a hell of a lot of fun in AW anyway.
Quote from: JasonPratt on February 04, 2026, 12:57:46 PMAnd then there's Apache vs Hind, which exists! {g} Though its sequel/expansion Comanche vs Hokum is deservedly more famous.
Close... the first game in the Enemy Engaged pair was Apache vs Havoc. GoG still has both available, but for some reason Steam has the first game and the inferior standalone expansion to Comanche vs Hokum, Desert Operations, but no Comanche vs Hokum itself.
There was an Apache vs Hind game for Palm OS, but I don't think you were referring to that. :grin:
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Quote from: Bardolph on February 04, 2026, 04:34:12 PMLol! I eventually found one, years later. It was rumored back then that if you saw a lone P-51 high up, carefully picking its targets that it could very well be Shaw.
I doubt reading it would have helped me much either, I think the big difference was the sheer number of hours some of those guys had put in. I had a hell of a lot of fun in AW anyway.
I've had a copy for around 30 years, read it several times, and I still suck at dogfighting.
Quote from: Sigwolf on February 04, 2026, 07:10:50 PMI've had a copy for around 30 years, read it several times, and I still suck at dogfighting.
Hahahaha same.
Quote from: Sigwolf on February 04, 2026, 07:10:50 PMQuote from: JasonPratt on February 04, 2026, 12:57:46 PMAnd then there's Apache vs Hind, which exists! {g} Though its sequel/expansion Comanche vs Hokum is deservedly more famous.
Close... the first game in the Enemy Engaged pair was Apache vs Havoc. GoG still has both available, but for some reason Steam has the first game and the inferior standalone expansion to Comanche vs Hokum, Desert Operations, but no Comanche vs Hokum itself.
There was an Apache vs Hind game for Palm OS, but I don't think you were referring to that. :grin:
True, I had forgotten the Havoc.
Apache Air Assault however did allow flying the campaigns with a Hind as well.
I wonder if the extensive mods for ComVHok only needed the standalone DLC?
Just checked GoG to see if the DLC is included; realized I hadn't bought them on GoG! Currently massively discounted, both games together not quite US$2.50! (plus sales tax) DLC not apparently included.
Yeah, it is strange that the dlc is not on GoG, but it is standalone. I actually don't have it (but do have the primary two) and from what I've read it is from completely different developers and not that good, so I don't think I will even bother getting it on Steam.
Never played Apache Air Assault, but it is a shame that is does not appear to be available at all, anymore.
I no kidding listen to the Apache Air Assault musical score at least twice a year in my car on folder rotation. Mixed along with the musical scores to the two National Treasure films, which fit together surprisingly well.
Hm, let's see...
Can't tell if that's going to the playlist, so this direct link may work better...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LsATabGugk&list=PLB66719B92170A876
Friends, the latest episode of Retro Dogfight covers the sadly short-lived A-10 Tank Killer series!
https://www.retrodogfight.com/11-the-a-10-tank-killer-series/
Friends, episode twelve of Retro Dogfight, in which we discuss F-15 Strike Eagle II and III, is now out! Thank you for listening!
https://www.retrodogfight.com/12-the-remaining-f-15-strike-eagle-series/
Friends, the latest episode of Retro Dogfight, in which we discuss F-22: Air Dominance Fighter, is now live! Yay!
https://www.retrodogfight.com/13-f-22-air-dominance-fighter/
Today, which should have been April 1, I learned there was an F-15 Strike Eagle 3 ga... wait, April first!?
Quote from: JasonPratt on May 02, 2026, 08:17:21 PMToday, which should have been April 1, I learned there was an F-15 Strike Eagle 3 ga... wait, April first!?
Hahaha
Latest episode of Retro Dogfight is out y'all, looking at my favorite sim, Gunship 2000!
https://www.retrodogfight.com/14-gunship-2000/
Hey y'all, episode 15 of Retro Dogfight is up, wherein we discuss my co-host Denny's favorite sim, 1942: The Pacific Air War!
https://www.retrodogfight.com/15-1942-the-pacific-air-war/
Friends, episode 16 of Retro Dogfight is up, this time looking at European Air War!!
https://www.retrodogfight.com/16-european-air-war/