Well the good news here is that perhaps the DRM will be changed for the betterment of everyone. It doesn't change the ill feelings that Norb festered over time towards his developement house.
http://www.matrixgames.com/news/958/Slitherine.and.NorbSoftDev.Ink.Publishing.Deal
Birds of a feather
Do you think this news will signal any improvements in the game or is it just a new distribution platform?
Quote from: TheCommandTent on September 18, 2012, 06:59:01 PM
Do you think this news will signal any improvements in the game or is it just a new distribution platform?
Slitherine has money. Norb knows history and builds good games. Depends on whether they use their talents or squander them. The signs are good, but as with all things only time will tell.
Quote from: TheCommandTent on September 18, 2012, 06:59:01 PM
Do you think this news will signal any improvements in the game or is it just a new distribution platform?
It's about distribution, not quality. Norb stole the rights of the engine from his dying partner. Slytherine doesn't mind that; the game sells well.
I dont mind either.. its a great game and I'm not the ethics police. Happy to see it will be available to a wider audience. Can't wait for his Chancellorsville addon. I also don't eat dolphin safe tuna nor do I care about Apple Inc.working conditions in China. I'm not trying to be overly sarcastic as I get the apprehension, but every thread about this game ends up in a discussion about Norb's eithics.
That aside, this game is the best tactical simulator of 19th century warfare around, hands down.
I just hope this means the DRM disappears.. I Never play it due to it being a pain in the ass!
I don't get why every thread about Nazi Germany devolves into a discussion about their ethics. They had the best army in the world at the time, hands down. :P
Quote from: Tuna on September 18, 2012, 07:36:53 PM
I just hope this means the DRM disappears.. I Never play it due to it being a pain in the ass!
This is what I am betting on. Slitherine and Matrix don't do online activation. All of their games use the simple serial key. Now we don't want this NorbSoft game to change the tradition right?
I paid full price right when it came out.. I should be able to play on both my laptop and desktop without jumping through hoops...
Oh well, if DRM is your main concern, have fun.
I thought mikeck was the ethics police. Damn.
Quote from: Gusington on September 18, 2012, 08:10:48 PM
I thought mikeck was the ethics police. Damn.
It's not an easy thing to do: *great* game. Dubious pedigree. Norb, not Mike. ;)
FWIW, JD told me there was another side to that story, and that he had helped Norb break away. I can't speak to the facts of that side of the issue, though as some of you know I have my own history with JD.
I still play Slitherine's games and praise them when it's justified.
Sometimes Life gives us a gray area and we just have to muddle through.
You guys watch - it'll only be a matter of time before Slitherine/Matrix implements some more complex DRM system. I can just feel it.
Quote from: MIGMaster on September 18, 2012, 09:06:45 PM
You guys watch - it'll only be a matter of time before Slitherine/Matrix implements some more complex DRM system. I can just feel it.
Well, to be fair, Matrix's DRM scheme is a serial number. They have (or had) one of the most lenient policies in the industry. *Any* change will be a shift to a more draconian side. The question is whether it's reasonable or not.
Quote from: Bismarck on September 18, 2012, 07:14:30 PM
Quote from: TheCommandTent on September 18, 2012, 06:59:01 PM
Do you think this news will signal any improvements in the game or is it just a new distribution platform?
It's about distribution, not quality. Norb stole the rights of the engine from his dying partner. Slytherine doesn't mind that; the game sells well.
I was active on the forums for several years when TC2M came out. I loved the game, and had a tremendous amount of respect for the developers.
...but you're right. Something very, very bad happened, and the second nastiest flame war I have ever seen in gaming resulted. The first? Derek Smartt, of course.
I won't be purchasing anything from Norbsoft games, ever. Even his new game is almost identical to TC2M..I just cannot see much difference.
Controversy aside, Erik Rutins confirms that it will use the usual serial number scheme.
http://www.wargamer.com/forums/posts.asp?t=584575
Quote from: Tuna on September 18, 2012, 07:36:53 PM
I just hope this means the DRM disappears.. I Never play it due to it being a pain in the ass!
I'd be extremely happy if the online activation disappeared, too.
Although with Matrix/Slitherine publishing the game now, I'd expect the pricing to skyrocket back up on future new stuff. :-[
Hopefully those of us with a copy can get the non-DRM version, and not have to purchase it again..?
Quote from: Nefaro on September 19, 2012, 06:32:05 AM
Although with Matrix/Slitherine publishing the game now, I'd expect the pricing to skyrocket back up on future new stuff. :-[
Slitherine has changed Matrix's pricing strategy - now you can just wait for it to go on sale.
So when is the changeover?
I'm still planning on getting that last expansion before long. I should probably wait to make sure I get the Slitherine expansion that only requires a code..
I asked on the site and they said that a DRM removal will be available to the previous owners of the game. You will just enter activation code as your serial.
I really have no idea about the history of the developers of the game besides what has been discussed in forums....I wonder how many people that have commented on this matter and refuse to play the game really have firsthand knowledge of the matter from both sides, versus just speculating on the web and through hear-say. Regardless, everyone is entitled to their opinion and can show it by buying or not buying the game. For me, I continue to buy the games and enjoy them. If I had 100% concrete evidence of something really horrible happened, then maybe it might make me pause. But I don't think we'll ever have that kind of evidence since likely only known by the actual parties involved.
Quote from: Tuna on September 19, 2012, 04:22:13 PM
I asked on the site and they said that a DRM removal will be available to the previous owners of the game. You will just enter activation code as your serial.
Ok, but where do we download the version that only take a serial code? :)
Slitherine is now selling Gettysburg: http://www.slitherine.com/news/item502
Quote from: LongBlade on September 20, 2012, 04:21:33 PM
Slitherine is now selling Gettysburg: http://www.slitherine.com/news/item502
Good to see pricing model seems the same.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on September 19, 2012, 05:11:43 PM
I really have no idea about the history of the developers of the game besides what has been discussed in forums....I wonder how many people that have commented on this matter and refuse to play the game really have firsthand knowledge of the matter from both sides, versus just speculating on the web and through hear-say. Regardless, everyone is entitled to their opinion and can show it by buying or not buying the game. For me, I continue to buy the games and enjoy them. If I had 100% concrete evidence of something really horrible happened, then maybe it might make me pause. But I don't think we'll ever have that kind of evidence since likely only known by the actual parties involved.
This is a fair comment. Like I said, I posted on the board, a very small, very tight-knit board, very early in this game's history. Even now, I am hesitant to say more, for a variety of reasons. Too much like dirty laundry being aired...but I can absolutely and utterly assure you, that MOST of the individuals who had thorough, and sure and certain knowledge of what happened between the two developers were both shocked and angry, and what happened. Only one gets to rewrite the history, and THIS is what makes me unhappy.
Quote from: Cougar_DK on September 20, 2012, 03:37:50 PM
Quote from: Tuna on September 19, 2012, 04:22:13 PM
I asked on the site and they said that a DRM removal will be available to the previous owners of the game. You will just enter activation code as your serial.
Ok, but where do we download the version that only take a serial code? :)
I was thinking perhaps an update will be released or something? *shrug*
This does kinda push me towards buying the expansion sooner, though.
did the other guy die or was he just out of work for some time?
......
I am going to provide a link to the most extensive public discussion of the underlying ethics. Here are some things of interest which fell out of that thread:
(1) The thread was begun by one of the original MMG team members. He did so, since his and other posts were being deleted at MMG. Norb was the domain administrator and had full technical control of the site.
(2) A quite old thread on the International Game Developers Association by Norb demonstrated that he had long contemplated how he could liberate "his" code from the duly legal ownership of MMG.
(3) At least six members of MMG and some of NSD participated in the discussion. Not all agreed.
(4) There are numerous post by a user ID, "Coder", which highly praised Norb in all of this. However, due to an error where Norb neglected to logout and login, it was determine that Coder was actually Norb masquerading as a third person.
Here is the lengthy thread. Buy the game, or don't buy the game. At least, a couple of years ago the truth did see the light of day.
http://www.wargamer.com/forums/posts.asp?t=302136&pg=1
Quote from: MarkShot on September 22, 2012, 09:15:59 PM
I am going to provide a link to the most extensive public discussion of the underlying ethics. Here are some things of interest which fell out of that thread:
(1) The thread was begun by one of the original MMG team members. He did so, since his and other posts were being deleted at MMG. Norb was the domain administrator and had full technical control of the site.
(2) A quite old thread on the International Game Developers Association by Norb demonstrated that he had long contemplated how he could liberate "his" code from the duly legal ownership of MMG.
(3) At least six members of MMG and some of NSD participated in the discussion. Not all agreed.
(4) There are numerous post by a user ID, "Coder", which highly praised Norb in all of this. However, due to an error where Norb neglected to logout and login, it was determine that Coder was actually Norb masquerading as a third person.
Here is the lengthy thread. Buy the game, or don't buy the game. At least, a couple of years ago the truth did see the light of day.
http://www.wargamer.com/forums/posts.asp?t=302136&pg=1
I think I was still at WG when that took place. Or maybe not.
Doesn't matter - everyone is welcome here. Pass the word. It won't be deleted.
Quote from: Nefaro on September 21, 2012, 04:17:32 AM
Quote from: Cougar_DK on September 20, 2012, 03:37:50 PM
Quote from: Tuna on September 19, 2012, 04:22:13 PM
I asked on the site and they said that a DRM removal will be available to the previous owners of the game. You will just enter activation code as your serial.
Ok, but where do we download the version that only take a serial code? :)
I was thinking perhaps an update will be released or something? *shrug*
This does kinda push me towards buying the expansion sooner, though.
Patch is here http://www.scourgeofwar.com/downloads.shtml