GrogHeads Forum

DW: Shadows has been released!  Let the raiding begin....

http://www.matrixgames.com/store/466/Distant.Worlds-.Shadows


PE

If you want the bundle price for DW+RTOS+Legends Erik suggests holding off for the time being. They are still setting up the promotion on the store.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3206160&mpage=28 (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3206160&mpage=28)

I'm seeing this:

Quote
For newcomers we have an amazing bundle offer. Get the entire Distant Worlds series and all its expansions for just $69.96! To get the bundle just add any Distant Worlds title to your cart and the bundle will be offered to you. That's a saving of nearly 40% off the base price!

If that's just too much content for you, we're also dropping the base game to just $19.99 and all expansion will be sold separately for just $19.99! if you purchase Return of the Shakturi or Legends as part of the bundle, they are available for only $14.99!  That's a savings of up to 50% off the base price!

As an added bonus to existing Distant Worlds fans, through the duration of the sale Distant Worlds – Shadows will be priced at $19,99, $5 off the regular price, or the same discount given to newcomers to the series who take advantage of our bundle discount.

I have the original, so I can get all 3 DLCs for ~$50.  I might do that...

Man, I have all the expansions already and am tempted to get this...even though I've only played for a grand total of 30 minutes or so.

Ever.

Quote from: donkey_roxor on May 23, 2013, 10:58:04 AM
Man, I have all the expansions already and am tempted to get this...even though I've only played for a grand total of 30 minutes or so.

Ever.

lol...I understand.  I got mared in a game that lasted forever because I choose a huge map.  This time around I will choose something in the middle to smaller before jumping out there to something larger and just may stat in the middle area....


PE

Can't wait to pick this one up. 

Quote from: donkey_roxor on May 23, 2013, 10:58:04 AM
Man, I have all the expansions already and am tempted to get this...even though I've only played for a grand total of 30 minutes or so.

Ever.

Heh...I might have you beat by 30 minutes or so but I too am very tempted by the Shadows expansion.

Playing it now...really enjoying the pre-hyperdrive start of your empire and the changes to how the pirates operate (as the ai, I haven't played as a pirate yet)....you can hire them to do a variety of missions for you.

Quote from: Rayfer on May 23, 2013, 08:32:22 PM
Playing it now...really enjoying the pre-hyperdrive start of your empire and the changes to how the pirates operate (as the ai, I haven't played as a pirate yet)....you can hire them to do a variety of missions for you.

+1

This is a winner.  Pre-hyperdrive system exploration and expansion is turning out to be a lot more fun than I thought it'd be, and adds an entire new level to the game.  I've just hired pirates to smuggle hydrogen to me since a lack of it stalled construction of a mining base.

The new graphic engine is a definite improvement.  Map scrolling and overall animations are much smoother and more natural.

Finally, being able to expand the information panel in the lower left is a godsend!

I'm out of practice playing, but I have been poking around the game and so far I like what I have seen.  I can tell it has been optimized, but the real test will be later in the game.  Going to continue doing a refresh of how to play.....


PE

Should probably go ask this on the official forum but is there a way to force your ships to not go off and attack space monsters at first sight? I have ships walking one by one into 2 giant space scorpions and getting themselves killed. I keep ordering them to patrol a planet but the AI over rules my orders and they go off anyway. Not to mention the fact I turned space monsters off in the settings yet I have 2 space slugs and 2 giant scorpion things floating around right after I discovered the first hyperdrive tech.

Quote from: Kushan on May 23, 2013, 11:11:48 PM
Should probably go ask this on the official forum but is there a way to force your ships to not go off and attack space monsters at first sight? I have ships walking one by one into 2 giant space scorpions and getting themselves killed. I keep ordering them to patrol a planet but the AI over rules my orders and they go off anyway. Not to mention the fact I turned space monsters off in the settings yet I have 2 space slugs and 2 giant scorpion things floating around right after I discovered the first hyperdrive tech.

There is a setting for how far away you want any specific ship or fleet to engage enemies.  Most individual ships default to 'System' which means they'll actively engage any opponents in the same planetary system.  You can change that to something smaller and it should fix it (unless the monsters come to attack whichever planet/station/ship you're patrolling). 

IIRC, the button is on the bottom left selection window - somewhere near the bottom right.  Just remember to change them back later, if you need to.

I also bought the expansion even though I've hardly played the original (or any of the 3 DLC's I bought!)

I'm about to play the tutorial (again - for the 5th? time?). You see - it's a game I see massive potential in - and I want to love it.

Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 24, 2013, 08:13:07 AM
I also bought the expansion even though I've hardly played the original (or any of the 3 DLC's I bought!)

I'm about to play the tutorial (again - for the 5th? time?). You see - it's a game I see massive potential in - and I want to love it.

Thinking of doing the same....its a game I want to love, but end up starting it and putting it down quickly:(

Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 24, 2013, 08:13:07 AM
I'm about to play the tutorial (again - for the 5th? time?). You see - it's a game I see massive potential in - and I want to love it.

IIRC the DW tutorial is almost as bad the paradox game tutorials. Definitely helps to go through it to get a feel for the where everything is and what it does. Like the paradox games, I think the best way to learn is to just dive in. DW gives you a lot more tools to pass things off to the AI that paradox doesn't have as well.

Quote from: Kushan on May 24, 2013, 10:04:26 AM
[quote author=JudgeDredd link=topic=6033.msg146334#msg146334 date=1369401187
I'm about to play the tutorial (again - for the 5th? time?). You see - it's a game I see massive potential in - and I want to love it.

IIRC the DW tutorial is almost as bad the paradox game tutorials. Definitely helps to go through it to get a feel for the where everything is and what it does. Like the paradox games, I think the best way to learn is to just dive in. DW gives you a lot more tools to pass things off to the AI that paradox doesn't have as well.
[/quote]

There is a new tutorial for starting out as a pre-warp civ,,,,it is short but it gives you the basics and some hints as to how to get going.  Then playing as a pre-warp civ makes the game much easier to learn because you are dealing with only one system. It really does make the game easier to learn.

I agree with the above.
Having to build up into one system rather than expanding into others right from the start makes things a lot more managable.

My suggestion is to watch several let's play and start out with smaller systems (pre-warp as well)... when you use large systems, the game can get out of hand.  Also, leverage the AI to handle a lot of task because you will have to rely on your advisers the further along you go.  Managing ships can get out of hand so I always make sure I have them in fleets and of course pause the game often if needed.


PE

I've hit a bit of a wall as the Ackadarians. I have a vast empire, a nice number of colonies, but my cash flow tends to be in the negative (but I still manage to stay in the black financially, how is that?). The Kaidans are situated in the middle of my territory and I got angry because I noticed they colonized the Ackar system (which, I suppose, is my ancestral homeworld - given it already had Ackadarians on it).

I had a war with them, took Ackar and another planet and set about trying to get their homeworld via orbital bombardment, but there was just no way to beat them, so I ended the war. Now I am trying to think of how I can rebuild my fleets to crush them once and for all. I think I need to build a smaller fleet of orbital bombers and upgrade my nuclear weapons. I focused on missile technology, so my missiles are a force to be reckoned with (when the AI designer decides to put them liberally in the designs). But it looks to be a war of attrition.

Is it possible to play this game as a "peaceful" race and avoid war and just build up....or is war unavoidable and a big part of the game?

Quote from: son_of_montfort on May 24, 2013, 12:07:04 PM
I've hit a bit of a wall as the Ackadarians. I have a vast empire, a nice number of colonies, but my cash flow tends to be in the negative (but I still manage to stay in the black financially, how is that?).

Whats your bonus income? You can check it under the empire summary screen (the one with crossed flags). Bonus income comes from apace port income (private sector building ships), foreign trade, and resorts. Even with a deficit in tax income they might have been enough to generate a positive cash flow.

I don't generally bombard planets. I normally just build up a mass of troops and invade in a island hopping style campaign. Needs a lot bigger budget to support all the troops and transports along with a normal battle fleet, but it has the advantage of taking the planets more or less intact without a loss to planet quality.

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on May 24, 2013, 12:16:16 PM
Is it possible to play this game as a "peaceful" race and avoid war and just build up....or is war unavoidable and a big part of the game?

You could probably play the game as one of the trader races and not declare war on anyone. A few even have a few race specific victory conditions like having the largest private sector or the most free trade agreements. None of that guarantees the AI won't declare war on you.

QuoteIs it possible to play this game as a "peaceful" race and avoid war

asks the guy with the name GrimReaper... :P

Quote from: son_of_montfort on May 24, 2013, 12:07:04 PM
I've hit a bit of a wall as the Ackadarians. I have a vast empire, a nice number of colonies, but my cash flow tends to be in the negative (but I still manage to stay in the black financially, how is that?). The Kaidans are situated in the middle of my territory and I got angry because I noticed they colonized the Ackar system (which, I suppose, is my ancestral homeworld - given it already had Ackadarians on it).

How many trade agreements do you have?  How large are your fleets?  Fleet maintenance can become a huge drain on your economy and if you have freighters setting around, you are losing money.  A large part of your economy is the private sector and will generate more revenue than taxes so get the freighters working by putting them to work.  If your freighters are busy working make sure you allow them to be built and are not being stepped on by monopolizing on building military ships.

PE

Quote from: Grimnirsson on May 24, 2013, 12:31:33 PM

QuoteIs it possible to play this game as a "peaceful" race and avoid war

asks the guy with the name GrimReaper... :P

Now that is funny:)  Never thought of it that way...... :)

Yeah, I think I am floating by on my bonus income rather than tax income. Ending the war also righted the ship of state a bit, as it were.

Clearly I needed more troops, as the homeworld for the Kaidan was around 400K and I mustered about 80K in troops. They also had special forces (and I had armored divisions) so that is a problem that will be rectified fairly soon. I was under the impression that bombardment would lower troop sizes, but it does not seem to be having that effect.

Loaded up the base game and two original expansions....proceeded to be confused just as before....think it cured my need to purchase the latest:)  I know I didn't give it enough time, but if something doesn't grab me quickly, usually a sign I won't enjoy it.

A hotfix/patch (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3331949) has been released...

The hotfix may be downloaded here: ftp://ftp.matrixgames.com/pub/DistantWorldsShadows/DistantWoldsShadows-Update1901.zip

Quote
Full Change List for 1.9.0.1 from 1.9.0.0:

CRASH FIXES
- fixed crash at game startup on some PCs (ManagementObject)
- fixed another rare crash

BUG FIXES
- fixed bug where could have two smuggling missions for a colony if both manually request and then also accept advisor suggestion
- fixed problem where certain races do not start with Resupply Ship when playing as pirate
- fixed colors of pirate bonuses (Empire Summary screen) so that penalties are red and bonuses are green

FREIGHTERS AND RESOURCES
- Construction Ships now also deliver initial retrofit resource cargo to bases they build, thus mining stations have retrofit resources without freighters needing to deliver them afterwards
- bases present at game startup (e.g. mining stations, etc) now have retrofit resource cargo presupplied
- now have less freighters built by private economy, especially in large empires
- now use less Carbon Fibre in components

USER INTERFACE
- Mining Station list in Empire Navigation Tool now shows resources mined instead of cargo
- remapped Screenshot key to "/" key on numeric keypad (instead of "0")
- added hotkey for opening/closing Ground Report screen ("[", open bracket)
- added pirate stats to *own empire* when selected in Diplomacy screen
- now properly adjust size of Ground Report screen so that edges are not off-screen when enlarged
- altered default values for scroll and zoom speed in Game Options so that zooming and scrolling is slower and smoother

OTHER
- AI is now properly sending advisor suggestion to player before sending a pirate fleet to carry out an assigned Defend mission - i.e. not overriding manual control of fleets

Different strokes for different folks but your missing out without even trying. Watch a few "lets play" videos, let the Ai control everything except production and just concentrate on sending ships to mine stuff, then add tech research and so on. The game plays itself on auto... Just turn off AI for stuff one at a time as you learn things

Any game that is deep and worth it's salt will take a few hours to learn.

Quote from: mikeck on May 24, 2013, 03:34:25 PM
Different strokes for different folks but your missing out without even trying. Watch a few "lets play" videos, let the Ai control everything except production and just concentrate on sending ships to mine stuff, then add tech research and so on. The game plays itself on auto... Just turn off AI for stuff one at a time as you learn things

Any game that is deep and worth it's salt will take a few hours to learn.

Your probably right.....some reason all these space games confuse me......likely just me.

SoM, the private sector can become a bit of a paradox.
If you have too many freighters milling about you will not be able to make money anymore. There is a break even point (which is not a hard number obviously) where shipping goods vs available ships is still lucrative.

Also a war drains pretty heavily on your economy. Especially if you are rebuilding a planet that has been bombarded into oblivion.

Quote from: Yskonyn on May 24, 2013, 04:19:26 PM


Also a war drains pretty heavily on your economy. Especially if you are rebuilding a planet that has been bombarded into oblivion.

Not to mention.. enemy ships will destroy your freighters if they happen upon them while there's a war on. 

Commerce raiders, yay!


Also:

This IS Ceti Alpha V!

Quote from: mikeck on May 24, 2013, 03:34:25 PM
...let the Ai control everything except production and just concentrate on sending ships to mine stuff, then add tech research and so on. The game plays itself on auto...

I think that's part of my problem with the game. I know you can't please everyone all of the time...but not knowing what to turn off and on and when seems to be the difficult hurdle of these configurable games.

I get that turning everything over to the AI makes it easy to get into - but then you have difficulty understanding what to switch off and what to switch on and when....

Sometimes there are so many options that the game becomes a battle with what you should be taking care off against what you can let the AI do - whilst keeping some control over proceedings.

I guess my problem seems to be with the game what to do and when...what to leave to the AI and what to take control of and - even more - WHEN to take control of AI controlled functions.

I end up just watching the game play itself and responding to random messages!

Like I said - I've bought the game and all the expansions (including Shadows) and I WANT to love it and I WANT to learn it - but it's one of those games that fights me every single time I start it.  :'(

Crap....I did the hot fix/patch and when it was over and I went to play, all of my saved games were gone.  It was probably in the patch notes which I, of course, didn't read. 

There still there. just navigate up one level in the load save game menu. DW saves games in separate folders based on the game version. From what Erik said the new patch is save game compatible.

Thanks....I went to the Matrix forums and got the same reply.  But I already started a new game....so no harm done!

Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 24, 2013, 05:29:10 PM

Quote from: mikeck on May 24, 2013, 03:34:25 PM
...let the Ai control everything except production and just concentrate on sending ships to mine stuff, then add tech research and so on. The game plays itself on auto...

I think that's part of my problem with the game. I know you can't please everyone all of the time...but not knowing what to turn off and on and when seems to be the difficult hurdle of these configurable games.

I get that turning everything over to the AI makes it easy to get into - but then you have difficulty understanding what to switch off and what to switch on and when....

Sometimes there are so many options that the game becomes a battle with what you should be taking care off against what you can let the AI do - whilst keeping some control over proceedings.

I guess my problem seems to be with the game what to do and when...what to leave to the AI and what to take control of and - even more - WHEN to take control of AI controlled functions.

I end up just watching the game play itself and responding to random messages!

Like I said - I've bought the game and all the expansions (including Shadows) and I WANT to love it and I WANT to learn it - but it's one of those games that fights me every single time I start it.  :'(

I get it. When I run into a game like this, I force myself to play for 2 hours straight. I promise myself that I won't quit for two hours. Start clicking things to see what they do. Right click a planet and see your choices...pick one, etc. At the end of the two hours, you should know enough to know whether you will like it or not

Doesn;t seem like the AI is designing mining ships with enough fuel tanks to reach across the solar system in a pre-warp start. I'm about to run out of fuel (caslon) because gas mining ships are just sitting in orbit around my home system. Whats strange is that the AI is designing freighters with enough fuel.

Are they que'd up waiting for their turn at the pump? Maybe if your starting planet is the only source for fuel? Just guessing

Does anyone else have trouble seeing the icons for your ships? I mean the little colored triangle or diamond around them? When I scroll out so the ship sprite isn't visible, I can barely see then icon thingy...very thin and faint.

Quote from: mikeck on May 24, 2013, 11:41:26 PM
Are they que'd up waiting for their turn at the pump? Maybe if your starting planet is the only source for fuel? Just guessing

Does anyone else have trouble seeing the icons for your ships? I mean the little colored triangle or diamond around them? When I scroll out so the ship sprite isn't visible, I can barely see then icon thingy...very thin and faint.

No they were all almost fully fueled. When I clicked on them the range ring barely reaches the planet in question. Not going to worry about it too much now. Normal freighters seem to be handling things now that my gas mining station is in place.

Now that you mention it, they do seem a little dim when zoomed out.

I'm having a lot more fun this second game then I did my first one. Set research to very expensive, so its dragging out the pre-warp phase a little more. In my first game I was just starting to get a system economy going when I got warp drives. This game I've actually going to have that economy up and running for more then 5 minutes by the time I get warp capability.

In a game that dependent on AI controlling so many aspects of the game it needs to be a real good AI - is it good?

I think the AI does a perfectly adequate job. Of course there are some problems with it, but that's bound to happen in complex games like these, but the AI is perfectly adequate in helping you manage your empire and it's also putting up quite the challenge as an opponent in this version of the game.

Economic peaks and valleys are still common, depending on your starting position, so you might find that the one game is much more easier than the next one you play.
You can enforce this somewhat by being smart about the setup of the game and the myriad of settings you have available to tailor the game. Still it might sometimes turn out to be a lot easier than the next start or a lot harder than the next start.

@Kushan, I have no idea why your freighters won't fly to the planet if its within their range?
If you mean that your ship building AI is not upgrading your freighters correctly with gear you want, you might want to check on the size of the hull. The AI cannot make designs if they would 'outsize' the hull it is using.

@JD, I feel you pain. :) I've had this with the original game. But I can safely say that you can just fiddle around with the settings. There is only one way to learn and that is to play.
The most confusing part, I found at first, was to keep tabs on what my ships and fleets were doing because most of them were set to automatic. You need to let this feeling go. You don't need to know where every individual ship hangs out. That is what fleets are for;

You select or build a given amount of ships to form a fleet with. This fleet will not be on automatic and you can roam about attacking and defending where needed with your input.
The rest of the denizens of your empire will roam about.
Exploration is something you can leave on automatic. I find it tedious and time consuming and to be honest I don't care where my general exploration goes to. I do, however, have 2 or 3 exploration ships on manual to quickly buzz off into interesting systems I find.
Another way to let automation help you, while still maintaining control.

In the options menu I would first go with getting rid of the following tickmarks for automation, so you can control this yourself:
Fleet Formation
Research
Ship Design (if you want, but for a first game I would leave this on auto)

Then in the dropdown list window I would go with the following options:
Set all to: Suggest, except for Colonization and Diplomatic Gifts. Set those to control manually.

This would give you a game (pre-warp or classic) where you can focus on some aspects, while the AI will help you build up, but suggests something before it will actually do it. This will make it much more clear what the AI does and helps getting stuff to be more clear.
Once you feel you start to know what you're doing, change other options to manual as you go.

^Thanks for the advice.

I'll be giving a pre-warp game a go today (if I can get my daughter off World of Warcraft!)

Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 25, 2013, 06:49:04 AM
^Thanks for the advice.

I'll be giving a pre-warp game a go today (if I can get my daughter off World of Warcraft!)

Let us know how it goes....if you can get into it, maybe hope for me too:)

Oh and JD, don't play as the Pirates for your first game.
I would only advise to play as them once you have a solid grasp on how the game works. Their ways of making money and running their economy is pretty different. Stick with a normal empire at first.

I have never won a game of Distant Worlds I can honestly say. Now, a disclaimer: I always manually select my opponents and I set a few of them to be one or two levels more advanced than me. After all, do we really think all civilizations are starting at the same time? Anyway , it force me to attack other races to secure resources and colonies and to forge alliances with other "special needs" races like me

Quote from: Yskonyn on May 25, 2013, 04:48:36 AM
@Kushan, I have no idea why your freighters won't fly to the planet if its within their range?
If you mean that your ship building AI is not upgrading your freighters correctly with gear you want, you might want to check on the size of the hull. The AI cannot make designs if they would 'outsize' the hull it is using.

Normakl freighters are working fine, it was the gas mining ships that the AI didn't design with enough fuel tanks. Not going to worry about it now unless it appears in other games. Everything is working fine now that I've got hyperdrive tech now and almost finished with the 2nd level fuel tank research. Thinking back I guess I could have thrown on a few fuel tanks manually. I seem to forget you can modify private sector ships.

Quote from: mikeck on May 25, 2013, 01:52:39 PM
I have never won a game of Distant Worlds I can honestly say. Now, a disclaimer: I always manually select my opponents and I set a few of them to be one or two levels more advanced than me. After all, do we really think all civilizations are starting at the same time? Anyway , it force me to attack other races to secure resources and colonies and to forge alliances with other "special needs" races like me

I've never won a game either. Then again, I usually play in sandbox mode with victory conditions turned off.

One of the great strengths of DW is being able to set up the galaxy you want. I've done both a few barbarian at the gates game, one high tech expansive empire with a lot of "barbarian" low tech civs set to high aggression, and the reverse with a low tech expansive empire and a bunch of high tech but smaller opponents. No other 4x on the market even comes close in this respect.

Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 25, 2013, 06:49:04 AM
^Thanks for the advice.

I'll be giving a pre-warp game a go today (if I can get my daughter off World of Warcraft!)

JD,

I suggest turning most AI control options to "AI Suggests" so they'll send you confirmation requests with details on what they wanna do.  That way, you can get a better idea of how it flows and can adjust the AI settings from there, while shooting down anything that may be working against your intended strategy.

Ya know JD, my 2 cents...and others may disagree, but you may want to consider starting out with a traditional post warp game to learn. I'm actually finding the pre warp era to be more difficult. Ships running out of fuel between stars, AI designs with insufficient fuel, etc. Generally, these are not bugs, but the lack if hyperdrives require more attention to certain things.

Create a huge map with 1000 stars, pick 5 or 6 races and set all races to have your same starting tech level. You should have plenty of time to casually explore and screw around...and your pre made ships will be able to go everywhere you want them to.

I've been easing back into the game with the ~440 star galaxy and 4 or 5 other civs, in post-FTL era with fewer Pirates.    Fewer stars = faster game, I'm guessing.

I like a bigger map as I have more room before I bump into neighbors. I always set monsters to "none" and pirates to "rare" and "distant" .  Makes things a but easier and I have a hard time believing there are giant space scorpions devouring ships

Quote from: mikeck on May 25, 2013, 08:08:34 PM
I like a bigger map as I have more room before I bump into neighbors. I always set monsters to "none" and pirates to "rare" and "distant" .  Makes things a but easier and I have a hard time believing there are giant space scorpions devouring ships

Be aware that if you activate shadow story line events, you will still get some space monsters. You won't any wondering around like if they were turned on, but you may have some in your home system or spawned from random events. I asked over at matrix and Elliot said they may change it so when space monsters are set to none, it will apply to the shadow events as well.

Yeah, I turn off all story lines

Quote from: mikeck on May 25, 2013, 07:48:28 PM
Ya know JD, my 2 cents...and others may disagree, but you may want to consider starting out with a traditional post warp game to learn. I'm actually finding the pre warp era to be more difficult. Ships running out of fuel between stars, AI designs with insufficient fuel, etc. Generally, these are not bugs, but the lack if hyperdrives require more attention to certain things.

Create a huge map with 1000 stars, pick 5 or 6 races and set all races to have your same starting tech level. You should have plenty of time to casually explore and screw around...and your pre made ships will be able to go everywhere you want them to.

mikeck.....I thought the whole idea of starting as a pre-warp civ was that you couldn't go out to the stars but had to basically stay in your starting solar system until you researched and made warp capable ships? At least that's the way I've been playing it, perhaps I'm wrong and you can go to the stars in pre-warp?

Lol....no, your right. See, I just sent my exploration ship to a nearby star under normal power (I had added a bunch of fuel tanks to max size). Problem is, I didn't check the range. Next thing I know, it's returning home before it got to the star. I checked and it was low on fuel. Never made it back home. So now it's drifting.

So, you can send ships to other stars...you just can't get them back

Ironically, I've not played in the Shadows era yet.  Since it's been a few months since I last played DW, I've started a post-warp empire in the "classical" era to get my bearings again. 

If I only spring for the base game and 1st expansion how much gameplay am I missing v. how much I get? I just can't bring myself to plunk down almost 70 bucks on a game I have not tried. Also, can the 'pre-warp' scenario above be accomplished with just the first two or is one of the later expansions needed?

Quote from: Martok on May 26, 2013, 12:06:38 AM
Ironically, I've not played in the Shadows era yet.

Me either. I can't wait to hear your impressions!

Quote from: Staggerwing on May 26, 2013, 06:43:25 AM
If I only spring for the base game and 1st expansion how much gameplay am I missing v. how much I get? I just can't bring myself to plunk down almost 70 bucks on a game I have not tried. Also, can the 'pre-warp' scenario above be accomplished with just the first two or is one of the later expansions needed?

Facing he same debate with myself.. so many games out there that 'everyone loves', but then when I get them, I don't click with them.. I love the civilization series of which I hear a lot of comparisons.. Then I watch videos of the space battles, and it looks to me, don't know if you remember, those toys you had as a kid with the little oblong peanut shaped magnet (supposed to be a car or other vehicle) in the sealed box, and you moved the magnet against that back to move it around.. lol. it reminds me of that with 100's of the lil cars.. just not seeing the love. But then on the other hand with everyone raging about how good it is, I wonder what I'm missing.. I think, "Hey, go by the base game to check it out".. But then I miss out on saving ten bucks by buying the two expansions...  Decisions, decisions...

Quote from: Tuna on May 26, 2013, 07:11:38 AM

Quote from: Staggerwing on May 26, 2013, 06:43:25 AM
If I only spring for the base game and 1st expansion how much gameplay am I missing v. how much I get? I just can't bring myself to plunk down almost 70 bucks on a game I have not tried. Also, can the 'pre-warp' scenario above be accomplished with just the first two or is one of the later expansions needed?

Facing he same debate with myself.. so many games out there that 'everyone loves', but then when I get them, I don't click with them.. I love the civilization series of which I hear a lot of comparisons.. Then I watch videos of the space battles, and it looks to me, don't know if you remember, those toys you had as a kid with the little oblong peanut shaped magnet (supposed to be a car or other vehicle) in the sealed box, and you moved the magnet against that back to move it around.. lol. it reminds me of that with 100's of the lil cars.. just not seeing the love. But then on the other hand with everyone raging about how good it is, I wonder what I'm missing.. I think, "Hey, go by the base game to check it out".. But then I miss out on saving ten bucks by buying the two expansions...  Decisions, decisions...

Its likely just me, but fired up the base game with the two original expansions yesterday to try and get into it.....just isn't clicking.  So many options that I find it overwhelming.  I am sure there is a good game in there, but just realizing it is not for me....

And this is exactly the reason these games need a demo...

Quote from: Staggerwing on May 26, 2013, 06:43:25 AM
If I only spring for the base game and 1st expansion how much gameplay am I missing v. how much I get? I just can't bring myself to plunk down almost 70 bucks on a game I have not tried. Also, can the 'pre-warp' scenario above be accomplished with just the first two or is one of the later expansions needed?

Shouldn't miss much. You'll get fighters/bombers but you won't get dedicated carriers (they were added in Legends). You will get ion weapons and missile weapon types along with some other new tech options. You will get some of the improved UI with ROTS. Can't seem to find the latest ROTS patch notes, but I'm pretty sure it got a patch this year so it might have gotten some of the Legends UI and AI changes. Legends also runs a little bit smoother (for me at least) then ROTS. ROTS is certainly playable, but Legends seems better optimized for the larger galaxies. Again some of the performance improvements might have been patched into ROTS as well.

You won't get the character system which was added in Legends. No ambassadors, faction leaders, fleet admirals, etc. They really just offer different negative and positive bonuses to your faction. The character system is nice for immersion, but you could go without it and no miss it.

No you can't set up a "pre-warp" start. You can set it up so you only start with your home system in the classic 4x start but you can't set it up to where you have to explore your home system and research hyper drives.

DW+ROTS isn't a bad way to try it out considering the lack of a demo.

I think Eric mentioned something about a pack coming out. I would just wait a bit.

LOL.. don't know why, just couldn't resist.. took the 'plunge'.. grabbed DW - Legends and Return.. hoping I love it like a lot of people do!

Quote from: Tuna on May 26, 2013, 08:03:16 PM
LOL.. don't know why, just couldn't resist.. took the 'plunge'.. grabbed DW - Legends and Return.. hoping I love it like a lot of people do!

I hope you enjoy it, Tuna!

I know it can be a daunting game, because there's a lot going on.  One of the things people who love it tend to really like is that it really is a living universe, with a ton of ship traffic going on, private sector ships running all around your empire (and being built at your spaceports), characters going on missions and conducting research - it's amazing, but can quickly seem like WAY too much - if you think you need to try and control it all and/or pay close attention to everything going on.

The first thing to know is that you don't.  The automation is really good.  If you've play Command Ops and come to trust the automation there, this is just as good.  Don't try and do it all.  Automate almost everything except the bits you really want to mess with.  You'll soon find out from the game's feedback system if there's something you should pay attention to and ignore something else.  The pace is not such that you'll be frantically trying to keep on top of it all.

I wrote the following in response to a request for some newbie advice on the Distant Worlds Reddit.  It concerns fleet postures and might be helpful to those just picking up the game:

You can automate a lot of fleet management by using fleet postures. There's a great post on how to do so on the Matrix forums:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2973167&mpage=1&key=Fleet%2Cposture&#2973167 (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2973167&mpage=1&key=Fleet%2Cposture&#2973167)

I'll typically create a number of Strike Forces equipped with frigates and destroyers, and station these at my colonies. I'll set my fleet posture to defend with either a range of "Target and nearby systems" or "Sector." If you have the "Show fleet postures" overlay turned on, you'll see a bunch of blue circles centered on the locations you've based your fleets. Any time there's an attack within those circles, your fleets will automatically move to deal with it.

On the offensive side, you can posture fleets for attack, and then give them a specific target. Again, you can set the range. If I think I'm about to get into a war with an enemy, I'll build several purely offensive fleets, base them behind what I think the front line will be (protected by my defensively postured fleets) give them a target like a space port or defensive battery, and set the range to what I think will be most effective. If it's likely to be a heavily defended system, I'll keep them focused on just that system. If I want more raiding and harassment, I'll tell them to hit the target and then go after targets of opportunity in the whole sector. Again, with the overlay you'll see red lines and red circles centered on your targets.

Then, when you declare war or have it declared on you, your offensive fleets will immediately begin moving toward their targets. I'll typically keep control of a single strike fleet and an invasion fleet mostly made up of troop ships, and I'll personally control those to go after targets of high priority. The rest of my fleets mostly take care of themselves, based on the fleet postures I've assigned.

I also turn on the automation for my advisors to suggest targets. That way, when one of my automated fleets has hit their main target, I'll usually get a good suggestions for what their next target of opportunity should be. By doing it this way I can more easily control a multi-fleet operation against several targets, keeping the enemy AI from concentrating and usually achieving my war goals fairly quickly. You can't totally ignore your automated fleets; you need to check them to be sure they aren't too damaged, out of fuel, etc, but it takes much less micro-management.

Finally, I find that limited wars for a definite objective (a particular colony or system, for example) are more effective than trying to go after an enemy all in one shot.

Was thinking of doing a how to AAR for new people or for people looking at the game. But it would seem that neither Fraps or the default DW screenshot button will work when a in game menu is open. Anyone happen to know of a fix for this or an alternate way to take a screenshot? Video seems to work just fine, but I don't have any recording software.

If FRAPS isn't working I'm not sure what you'd do unless print screen and paste into paint works.

Print Screen and then pasted it into paint.  One of the more annoying ways to do an AAR having to alt-tab in and out for each screen shot.  But I guess it works.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi830.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz227%2FBison36%2FUntitled_zps8afc787c.jpg&hash=1523b4a798eab65f75cb556a22be8186b9c52b85)

DW has a screenshot hotkey built in. I dont know which one it is out the top of my head, but I do know its there.

Alternatively I would suggest BandiCam over Fraps. It has the Same functions, but its performance is way better and its video's a lot smaller while retaining 720p.

Thanks Bison. I always forget about MS paint. I have two monitors so alt-tab isn't that bad. At least DW runs in windowed mode.

Quote from: Yskonyn on May 27, 2013, 03:42:57 AM
DW has a screenshot hotkey built in. I dont know which one it is out the top of my head, but I do know its there.

Its the "/" on the numpad. They remapped it from the numpad "0" in the shadows patch. But it doesn't take a screen shot when a in game menu is open, will only take a screen shot of the galaxy map.

Thanks for the tips Panzerde.. I went through the tutorials last night, and it certainly looks like something that's going to catch my fancy, at least I hope so!

Woah, I beat my first game as the Zenox. It wasn't a cake walk, by any means, but my technological superiority allowed me to crush those purple nasty bug guys. Otherwise, I grabbed a win by having a huge empire and completing the Galactic Archives. I have decided I like smaller galaxies with fewer enemy civs, as you get a quicker and more reasonable game.

I am having some problems with the automatic ship designs, however. I research all this cool weaponry and all the automatic ship designer wants to use is Electron Torpedoes and Maxos Blasters! So I manually go in and add stuff like graviton beams, area weapons, and Ion cannons. Trouble is, the AI decides - after a while - that it wants to "upgrade" those into a new MK II and puts back in the Maxos Blasters and Torpedoes!

Any advice on how to deal with this? It is really irritating. On the other hand, I also want to have the AI put in the nuts and bolts to all my designs (the turning engines and such). So I don't want to turn off automation completely.

SoM, this is something I have been experiencing too.
I know this has been a topic of extensive beta testing and I also thought we had nailed it. But I will put up the issue again on the beta tester's forum to get some feedback on it.
I'll report back.

I have been discussing with the beta guys;

Basically this is a problem that has been around since RotS and isn't properly addressed, but there are some workarounds.
What happens is that the AI has a certain focus on design templates. I assume its something like a scripted 'priority' of components it wants to use.

Here's a snippet from Darkspire to illustrate: "(...)for example the Acceleros engine is always dropped in favor of the Quantum engine, the Acceleros engine has a max thrust of 1530 and the Quantum only 1230, the cruise speed for Acceleros is 720 the Quantum is 620, the difference is the energy usage, as the Acceleros uses more energy it is replaced by the slower Quantum one. Same goes for the Equinox drive, it is always replaced by the Kaldos drive, Equinox speed is 18750 and the Kaldos is 13750 but the Kaldos is chosen to replace the Equinox because the Jump initiation is quicker, 12 on the Equinox and 7 on the Kaldos."

In short it comes down to having to babysit the AI when you want it to design ships.
A few things to keep in mind:

With automated design, you can go to the empire policies and uncheck the ones you want to design yourself.
So you can have the AI skip designs for frigates and small freighters, but handle the rest of them.

If you have automated design and manual research, be sure to research what the designs use. The quick way is to look at research priorities in empire policies. If Phasers and torpedoes are tech focuses, the AI designs use those. If you then research rail gun and missiles, fun things are likely to happen when you finally start expanding the blaster tree and low tech phasers.

This partly due to lore reasons where each race has a certain 'flavour' and the AI sticks with that.

The whole situation is a bit cumbersome and the beta team is looking with Codeforce to see wether this can be made working more intuitively.

Thanks for that Yskonyn

Whilst I can see why that might happen, it does seem like quite a major flaw and a pita to remedy.

So upgrades have different characteristics (energy used/speed or say (for weapons) armour penetration/rate of fire etc) and the AI decides which is best - with the user having no way to change the AI's point of view on that?

Hence (in SoMs case) even though he's seemingly researched better weapons - they are only better in one/some other characteristics but weaker in others - and the AI is deciding his torpedoes and Maxo Blasters (seemingly inferior because they've did research - why reserach weapons if they are weaker somehow?) are better?

Ouch.

I've yet to get into this - but that seems like a real headache...does that not kind of negate the use of research?

Surely either you should be able to give the AI priorities (that is tell the AI you prefer distance over speed for engines or armour penetration over rate of fire for weapons) - and I don't see how that would work because that might not be the case for some ships/weapons - or (probably better) is that EVERY researched improvement has an increase in ALL aspects...so the engines would be "slightly" better at (say) speed and much better at distance...then the next researched upgrade would be "slightly" better at distance and much better at speed

Dunno - I don't want to be the professor of doom (especially as I've yet to get into it) but that does make it sound like researched is kind of porked without needing to babysit

On the plus side I did go through the first basic tutorial last night when I found some time...but towards the end I was kind of nodding off with all the reading I had to do!

I am not deep into the inner workings, so I am not able to answer all your questions JD.
But the AI used policies and design templates. I don't think the things the AI want to use is hardcoded, but it judges what to build upon its research focus. And I *think* this focus is hardcoded for the different races.
Still the AI is coded in such a way that it can still go for other modules, it just gauges the coded focus to have more value.
So, A Gizzurean will focus on different stuff than a Teekan.

I would vouch for a system where, while playing the game designing your ships, a copy is then placed into a templates folder which the AI can use for its work. A bit like what GalCiv did after the manual ship design was introduced.

In the current version, though, there are templates. But they are not well documented and the modders are waiting on more info about what is actually meant in those files.

I am afraid that manual design is the best way to go if you really get annoyed.
Mind you, the AI does a decent job of designing ships for you. But you just can't trust on it 100% and need to babysit the process.

The problem, from a coders perspective, is that there are so many variables in here with so many situations that can develop that would call for a specific design of a ship that its almost impossible to have an AI adapt for every situation.
But to have a better working 'general design process' from the AI would be nice indeed.

And to close on a soothing note; it's still being looked into actively.

well - having gotten the first basic tutorial under my belt - I'm an expert obviously.  :P

I do hope it gets fixed - and I totally understand, given the parameters for research and how varied they are, how this could come about. It souns like a very hard thing to get the AI to do though - given all the variables involved with all the different ship designs.

I think I may be having a problem with the non-pirate AI only researching gravity weapons and none of the other weapon types. Granted I've only played 1 pre-warp game long enough to get into a war, and 1 classic age to the same point, and that is out of 3-4 total games I've started since shadows. So out I don't want to call it a bug with only 2 real games, but it does seem like non-pirates are using a lot of gravity weapons. Going to start a another classic age game tonight as a test.

I would actually like to see more restrictions on races not being able to research certain weapons types. For instance maybe humans couldn't research gravity weapons, or Zenox couldn't research rails guns. I've long been of the opinion that there are almost to many weapon types. The AI was already having trouble with designing to the ones we had. I don't think another weapon class needed to be added with shadows. Probably the only one who feels that way, so I'm just going to wait until the modder expansion where we will hopefully be able to modify the tech tree.


@Yskonyn

Would it be feasible to add another few categories under the "Research and Design" section of empire policy screen? Maybe add something like "Engines - fuel efficiency" , "Engines - speed" , etc.? Looks like there is a category for almost everything but engines. and having different categories of engines would allow for some better fine tuning on the players part.

I think I am going to fix this a simple way - I am going to stop being a wiener and design my own warships. The beauty of the DW system is that you can literally build any ship from the ground up, so having the AI design ships for me seems to be a complete waste of such an open system.

Kushan, I have seen other empires using different types of weapons. They do like gravitic weapons, but so do I, given that they bypass armor and shields. Last night, one of the AI civs was using this wave technology weapon that I had not seen before. I'll have to investigate exactly what that was!

I do sort of agree that there are too many weapon types. Having two varieties of phasers, for example, seems overkill - why not have a phaser that has better range or less loss over distance and then have a pulse laser that has shorter range but higher firing speed (instead of having a phaser that has longer range and less damage and a phaser with shorter range and higher damage AND a pulse laser with similar variants)?

I'm going to start another game now and wean myself off the AI ship design.

Quote from: son_of_montfort on May 28, 2013, 11:06:09 AM
I think I am going to fix this a simple way - I am going to stop being a wiener and design my own warships. The beauty of the DW system is that you can literally build any ship from the ground up, so having the AI design ships for me seems to be a complete waste of such an open system.

Kushan, I have seen other empires using different types of weapons. They do like gravitic weapons, but so do I, given that they bypass armor and shields. Last night, one of the AI civs was using this wave technology weapon that I had not seen before. I'll have to investigate exactly what that was!

Gravitics have that excellent benefit, but they're also very short-ranged.  There's also some allusion to having a lower hit chance against large targets, in it's description.  Range can definitely be a win/lose factor, too.  You can adjust by increasing thruster modules to speed up your ships and load up heavier on shields and/or armor in the hope that you don't explode before getting into range, of course.  All part of the ship design fun.

Quote
I do sort of agree that there are too many weapon types. Having two varieties of phasers, for example, seems overkill - why not have a phaser that has better range or less loss over distance and then have a pulse laser that has shorter range but higher firing speed (instead of having a phaser that has longer range and less damage and a phaser with shorter range and higher damage AND a pulse laser with similar variants)?

I'm going to start another game now and wean myself off the AI ship design.

I'm pretty sure that there are just such trade-offs between the different types of weapons/engines/etc.  For instance, the three early warp drive options are split between how quickly they can enter warp and how fast they actually go during warp.  Similarly, weapons often vary in range, damage, rate of fire, energy use, damage falloff, mount mass, etc.  The lasers or phasers (or whatnot) should have some small differences in stats.

Yes I can confirm that the given weapon types all have advantages and disavantages.
There is no such thing as 'another laser, just for the sake of another laser'. But the variables are not always readily available in their description. ;) Part of the fun is finding out what exactly is the benefit of this vs that. At least that (partly) the intention.

@Kushan; the problem is that the policy files are a bit of an obscure thing at the moment. Codeforce is not very clear in what they do and how they could be altered.

Quote from: Yskonyn on May 28, 2013, 01:37:04 PM
@Kushan; the problem is that the policy files are a bit of an obscure thing at the moment. Codeforce is not very clear in what they do and how they could be altered.

Was actually hoping maybe Matrix/Code Force could add these. Right now there is no engine category at all under the empire policy at all, at least not from what I can see.

Quote from: Kushan on May 28, 2013, 02:11:18 PM

Quote from: Yskonyn on May 28, 2013, 01:37:04 PM
@Kushan; the problem is that the policy files are a bit of an obscure thing at the moment. Codeforce is not very clear in what they do and how they could be altered.

Was actually hoping maybe Matrix/Code Force could add these. Right now there is no engine category at all under the empire policy at all, at least not from what I can see.

Well there is even *some* doubt that these are even used at all. But that will be cleared up soon.

SoM, one thing I would like to know about the AI issue you have brought up above;

Did you mean that AFTER you have made a design with Graviton beams / Ion Cannons and all the other goodies the AI actually wants to change YOUR designs back into Blasters and Torpedo Mk 2 designs?

How does the AI do with its own ships?? Meaning for the AI races...Same problem?

Quote from: Yskonyn on May 28, 2013, 02:52:10 PM
SoM, one thing I would like to know about the AI issue you have brought up above;

Did you mean that AFTER you have made a design with Graviton beams / Ion Cannons and all the other goodies the AI actually wants to change YOUR designs back into Blasters and Torpedo Mk 2 designs?

Yessir. If I leave full automation on, then I update a design (let's call it Kirk MK II) to have gravitic beams and AOE weapons. When I get a retrofit/upgrade dialog and accept it, the computer will automatically design a Kirk II or Kirk MK III (usually Kirk II, oddly enough) and it will be back to Maxos blasters and Epsilon Torps. Very irritating.

But I just now started a new game and I turned off the automation of Destroyers, Frigates, and Cruisers (I figure that it can do Carriers and Troop Carriers). I'm finding the self-designing to be manageable and fun, so it should not be a problem. Incremental upgrades are not necessary all of the time anyway.

Quote from: son_of_montfort on May 28, 2013, 06:29:05 PM

Yessir. If I leave full automation on, then I update a design (let's call it Kirk MK II) to have gravitic beams and AOE weapons. When I get a retrofit/upgrade dialog and accept it, the computer will automatically design a Kirk II or Kirk MK III (usually Kirk II, oddly enough) and it will be back to Maxos blasters and Epsilon Torps. Very irritating.

But I just now started a new game and I turned off the automation of Destroyers, Frigates, and Cruisers (I figure that it can do Carriers and Troop Carriers). I'm finding the self-designing to be manageable and fun, so it should not be a problem. Incremental upgrades are not necessary all of the time anyway.

Yes, this has been a problem since they introduced the design automation.  Believe it or not things have improved with this over several patches, though the core issue still exists.  The established workaround is to not automate upgrades of any ships you don't want that to happen with, which is actually the origin of the check boxes in the empire policy screen of which ships to not automate design for, IIRC.

I generally handle design of state ships and bases and for the most part allow the AI to handle the civilian sector.  From an immersion perspective, it always seemed more natural to me that the civilian ships would lag a bit and not have the best technology, anyway.

v1.9.0.2 Patch has been released.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3332321 (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3332321)

QuoteFull Change List for 1.9.0.2 from 1.9.0.1:

CRASH FIXES
- fixed crash when start new prewarp game with very few pirates
- fixed crash when last ship in fleet is destroyed while fleet selected, and then click next fleet button
- fixed various other crashes

GENERAL BUG FIXES
- fixed bug where private sector ships would sometimes stop working
- Improved bug (work in progress) where Build Order screen has zero values for ship construction amounts
- fixed bug where construction ship repairing a damaged ship at a planet would separate from damaged ship being repaired
- pirate faction manually scrapping ships and bases now properly earns looting income
- ensure money obtained as loot from raid is never negative

PIRATES, CONTROLLED COLONIES, FACILITIES AND RAIDS
- fixed bug where sometimes could not build Criminal Network except via advisor suggestion
- pirate facilities are now much less likely to be destroyed in raids
- destroying pirate facilities at colonies of normal empires is now harder, as more pirate raider troops are generated to defend pirate bases at colony. Pirates also receive a combat bonus when defending their controlled colony with a Pirate Base or Fortress
- enemy raids against colonies with pirate facilities will usually only damage the facilities instead of completely destroying them
- pirate control level at colonies now does not drop below thresholds when have pirate base or fortress present (50% or 100%), even when planet population passes cap where pirate control would normally decrease
- pirate military ships do not raid own controlled colonies when control level is above 50%
- raids against controlled colonies where you have own pirate facilities will not destroy these facilities
- pirate factions will now defend against enemy raids on their controlled colonies with pirate facilities
- pirate facilities are now faster to build at controlled colonies
- colony corruption level is now higher when pirates control the colony, and especially when pirate facilities are present

OTHER
- Gizurean alien race now has lower population growth from periodic race change event
- bombardment can now sometimes destroy planetary facilities
- construction ships no longer incorrectly load retrofit resource cargo when repairing damaged ships
- added message to player when foreign intelligence agent successfully sabotages construction at a base, colony or construction ship
- patrolling fleets now more likely to engage enemy targets in same system
- colony ships now always check whether colonization target is within range


Full Change List for 1.9.0.1 from 1.9.0.0:

CRASH FIXES
- fixed crash at game startup on some PCs (ManagementObject)
- fixed another rare crash

BUG FIXES
- fixed bug where could have two smuggling missions for a colony if both manually request and then also accept advisor suggestion
- fixed problem where certain races do not start with Resupply Ship when playing as pirate
- fixed colors of pirate bonuses (Empire Summary screen) so that penalties are red and bonuses are green

FREIGHTERS AND RESOURCES
- Construction Ships now also deliver initial retrofit resource cargo to bases they build, thus mining stations have retrofit resources without freighters needing to deliver them afterwards
- bases present at game startup (e.g. mining stations, etc) now have retrofit resource cargo presupplied
- now have less freighters built by private economy, especially in large empires
- now use less Carbon Fibre in components

USER INTERFACE
- Mining Station list in Empire Navigation Tool now shows resources mined instead of cargo
- remapped Screenshot key to "/" key on numeric keypad (instead of "0")
- added hotkey for opening/closing Ground Report screen ("[", open bracket)
- added pirate stats to *own empire* when selected in Diplomacy screen
- now properly adjust size of Ground Report screen so that edges are not off-screen when enlarged
- altered default values for scroll and zoom speed in Game Options so that zooming and scrolling is slower and smoother

OTHER
- AI is now properly sending advisor suggestion to player before sending a pirate fleet to carry out an assigned Defend mission - i.e. not overriding manual control of fleets

Regards,

- Erik

To elaborate on the ship design issue brought up here. Elliot (the dev) has replied:

"Hi Yskonyn

I think the questions you have here relate to a misunderstanding of what the "Auto Upgrade Selected Designs" button in the Designs screen actually does.

The "Auto Upgrade" button does not follow the standard AI process for creating a new design. It does not reflect in any way what the AI does when it designs new ships.

The "Auto Upgrade" button is just a convenience function for the player. It simply makes a copy of the selected design, but with old components replaced with new ones.

Sometimes it is not clear which is the 'latest' component to use when replacing an old one, i.e. multiple components of the same type exist at the same tech level. In this case which new components are selected depends on a number of factors, including empire policy settings. In any case, the "Auto Upgrade" button is not intended to produce a final design, it simply makes it quicker and easier to upgrade designs - the player still has to finalize things to their liking.

And just to emphasize: what the "Auto Upgrade" button does is completely different to what the AI does when it makes new designs - these are totally different processes.

Maybe it's worth renaming the "Auto Upgrade" button to better reflect that it's just a shortcut to help the player manually upgrade designs more quickly.

Anyway, hopefully that helps explain how things are intended to work 

Elliot"

Still, this only applies to the 'assisted mode' where you press the 'Auto Upgrade Design' button to quickly upgrade a given ship design, but further design your ships manually.

Your issue is more about the complete automation, which I have brought up again in my reply over at the beta forum.
Consider it being looked into. ;)

Thanks, Ysk, because I do not use the Auto Upgrade button. In fact, the only way to make sure that the AI doesn't immediately try to redesign with undesirable elements is to use the Manually Update Design button. And yes, this happens even when I push no button at all. I am glad you are on top of this!

But switching to Manual Design for war/state ships seems the best solution and it is not too overwhelming.

My god!!

I am kicking myself stupid trying to get into this game.

So I started a game (read basic and advanced tutorial) and I'm going through the manual

I've switched everything over to Suggest and took auto ship design off - but things seem to be moving at such a frenetic pace!!

So everything is on "Suggest"....but why really? I get a little message saying the scientists suggest building a ship...no reason why. I get a message saying researchers want to research something - no reason why.

I had selected few pirates (or very few - can't remember) and I've already met them
I had selected 3 other AI determined factions in a 400 star system in a 10x10 system and selected them to start very far away. In my two hour game I've already met two of them and one of them has shown up in MY grid - AND I'm at war with them because they decided to blockade my ports and the other one requested I go to war with them for money...

Ships are flying off in all directions.
One fleet ran out of fuel because when you select a fleet it shows a dotted ring (I thought it was a bingo fuel ring (something I had asked for in the very first release of Distant Worlds)) and I sent the fleet off to the edge of that ring....only to see them running out of fuel and limping back (I realise that is my fault and my lack of understanding) - but WHERE is the range and bingo fuel indicators for your fleet? Are they there?

I don't know why I bothered switching auto ship design off - because things have been going at such a pace I've had no time to look at them. I have NO idea what I'm researching.

The ships I do build become available and bugger off on their own somewhere!

I was at war with the faction closest to me and I had a "suggestion" that I should attack something of theirs. I said ok. My 1st Fleet went off to do battle - and was annihilated  because the bases they had were plentiful! So - yeah - I should've investigated - but the enemy area was shrouded (undiscovered?) with lines through the system...should I have sent an Exploration vessel? Why did the AI suggest I do battle with something I had no chance to beat?

I don't know boys. I'm very jealous of you lot - because I'm pretty sure I'm just crap and there's a great game in their - but I'm really, really struggling to find it and I'm rueing wasting more of my time on it...though I know if I don't, I'll never get anywhere with it.

I'm going to give it the weekend to sink in - and that's all I've got!

After writing all that I had started the game again - and decided perhaps I'm not paying enough attention to the messages I'm getting - so I'll do more of that...actually read the messages (there's so many though - one of the things I hated about the Hearts of Iron games)

I'm also slightly miffed at starting so close to other races and having already met pirates - both of which I choose to start as far away from as I could have selected.

I don't get this though.....

I was told there was a potential colony and I should build a colony ship to go there - so I did. And it went. And it left again because it came under attack from pirates.

So I sent my 2nd Fleet to defend it and sent it back - and got a message (at the top of the picture) telling me I wasn't able to colonise - they rejected me.

Then I get another message (the bottom image) telling me there's a potential colony...and it's the same one...and it's the same message.

My gripe here though is this - either the "potential" colony should be struck off the "potential" list, or the message should be changed to tell me to do something else...because I don't know what to do here. If I need to "forcefully" colonise the planet - then tell me that because I've already tried to colonise it by normal means.

Anyway - I have to go to work :-(

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1160.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq499%2Fwmar1967%2FMisc%2FSnap1-1_zps989fb191.jpg&hash=b7b32b377485b22bb9e4b0a072b154d76074c9bb) (http://s1160.photobucket.com/user/wmar1967/media/Misc/Snap1-1_zps989fb191.jpg.html)

Although I restrained from buying shadows, your experience is similar to mine when I tried to play the older versions.  I just can't wrap my head around everything to effectively understand and play it.  I also envy others who have seemed to master it and your comparison to hearts of iron is a good one.  Another game that completely overwhelms me in a similar manner.

ruh roh .. maybe I should've waited before making my purchase last week!.. oh well.. haven't really started the game yet.. "must keep an open mind, must keep an open mind"

^ I would definitely keep an open mind don't listen to me and GR!

I know it's a great game - I have no issues with that....but I knew it would be a long shot that something like this would grab me because 4X games aren't really my thing. I've not really played many (if any) before.

But don't be fooled and listen to everyone else...it is a great game...if you let it.

I'm not giving up on it yet...I've sank too much money into it and I love the idea of 4X games...so I'm staying with it...it might just yet click!

I think the manual says somewhere that if a planet has a pre existing colony of an independent race, then it has to be the same race to colonize without invading. Most colonies don't have anyone on them so its not an issue. If you click on the planet, it should tell you whether you can colonize in the window bottom left

As for starting location. You can't set every race to be far away but one or two should have worked. I get beat results when I set them all to random... Usually seven races on a huge map with with over 1000 stars

As for messages, Any options you can set which ones pop open which one scroll but I think there is no way to prevent you from getting them at all. in the end you'll learn over time which ones are important and which ones aren't most of them aren't. If you set most of them to scroll only you won't even notice them.

I definitely feel your pain. if you can't get into it, you can't get into it. there are several games ipeople on this forum love that I have tried to get into multiple times. I just can't do it. EU3 is one of them the matter how hard I play it, and no matter how much I want to like it, I just cannot sit down and play a game of it without you staring at the computer screen.

Don't work Judge.... It happens to lots of guys

Judge....are you playing with Shadows and if yes, pre or post warp civ?  This makes a huge difference regarding how pirates work in the game and where they appear in proximity to your empire.  Also, in the options screen, perhaps in empire settings, you can set all newly created ships to manual then by using the button that shows all ships without a mission you can set those you want the game to control to auto and keep control of those you want to give missions to, like warships, so that you can create and manage your own fleets (which is an option I would recommend).  You might want to also not have everything on 'show recommendations for me to decide' mode and take full control of research and fleet management, this gives you some hands on things to do while still getting suggestions regarding colonization, etc.   If you have Shadows and start on a pre-warp civ the game is much easier to learn and manage yourself.  You only have your own solar system to explore and there is no colonization outside of you solar system to deal with. It is very manageable even with most settings on manual.

Judge, I've found it's better to manually set up opponents then to use the "randomly generate opponents" option in the game set up. I usually set everything to random, except starting distance. I normally play with 9 races, and set 3-4 to "average" starting distance and the others to "distant" starting distance. Normally gives me enough room to expand a little before running into other races. As for pirates you can set there starting distance under the galaxy set up screen. But if your playing pre-warp its not recommended, since you will probably need at least one or two pirate factions to run resource missions for you early on.

Quote from: Kushan on May 31, 2013, 08:59:45 AM
Judge, I've found it's better to manually set up opponents then to use the "randomly generate opponents" option in the game set up. I usually set everything to random, except starting distance. I normally play with 9 races, and set 3-4 to "average" starting distance and the others to "distant" starting distance. Normally gives me enough room to expand a little before running into other races. As for pirates you can set there starting distance under the galaxy set up screen. But if your playing pre-warp its not recommended, since you will probably need at least one or two pirate factions to run resource missions for you early on.

If you play with 9 races, how many systems do you use?  The default 1000?

I've only been tinkering with the 400 system option because that's plenty large enough for jumping back in (and 3-4 AI races).  It may be a better introduction for those like Judge who feel overwhelmed, as I often felt like that once everything began to get established on larger settings.

Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 31, 2013, 02:23:11 AM
I don't get this though.....

I was told there was a potential colony and I should build a colony ship to go there - so I did. And it went. And it left again because it came under attack from pirates.

So I sent my 2nd Fleet to defend it and sent it back - and got a message (at the top of the picture) telling me I wasn't able to colonise - they rejected me.

Then I get another message (the bottom image) telling me there's a potential colony...and it's the same one...and it's the same message.

My gripe here though is this - either the "potential" colony should be struck off the "potential" list, or the message should be changed to tell me to do something else...because I don't know what to do here. If I need to "forcefully" colonise the planet - then tell me that because I've already tried to colonise it by normal means.

Anyway - I have to go to work :-(

That potential colony sounds like it is already occupied by a neutral race.  You can send in a colony ship to attempt a peaceful takeover of the place but they can reject the attempt and send you packing.  That's probably what happened the second time, after you had cleared out the pirate vessel.  You can keep trying to colonize it until it works (?) or send troops over to cap it, but the latter option will give you a galaxy-wide diplo relations hit.  It's usually pretty easy to colonize a neutral planet if the population is of the same race as you, and a bit easier if they're of the same race family, but it's no guarantee.

There are lots of tips on the Matrix boards for handling things such as research and just about everything else (in the 'War Room' sub-forum IIRC).  DW is the most complicated 4X out there, so it takes time to finger it all out.

^ No - first time I cleared the pirate vessel. Second time I was sent packing by the colony on the planet. The final pic is another message from the game telling me the same colony exists and I might want to create a colony ship and send it there - something I did 6 days previously and was asked to leave by the population.

Point being - given the message was displayedagain even though I was told to leave - it could potentially happen again...and again...and again...and...

And to answer the other questions, I let the AI choose my opponents because I was only allowing 3 in a 400 star galaxy and didn't think that would be a huge problem with starting as very far away selected - but one of the (just so happens the angry one) started in the same grid as me.

Sorry - but if I select 40 races and want them to start very far from me, I expect the game to put me in the middle and stick each of the baddies out in the outer rim of the galaxy in a 10x10 system...but I only had 3 AI - what was the problem with NOT putting one in MY grid?

I wasn't playing pre-warp. I thought about it, but as well as hearing it was easier because you are only dealing with your system, I also heard it was harder?!

I'm not playing Shadows - I'm playing the base game with Legends and Shakturi story

Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 31, 2013, 10:48:05 AM
Point being - given the message was displayedagain even though I was told to leave - it could potentially happen again...and again...and again...and...

This would be a great Monty Python skit!

PE

Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 31, 2013, 02:06:30 AM
I've switched everything over to Suggest and took auto ship design off - but things seem to be moving at such a frenetic pace!!

So everything is on "Suggest"....but why really? I get a little message saying the scientists suggest building a ship...no reason why. I get a message saying researchers want to research something - no reason why.

Suggest will actually increase the number of messages.  If part of the problem for you is the message spam, then it's better to either put everything on Manual control or on Automated and just take Manual control of a small part.  You can also turn on and off the different message types in the Options menu ("O" key).  You may want to turn off anything non-critical (like an attack notification) just to again reduce the number of message.

If you are not already taking advantage of slowing down the speed and using the pause function (space key) whenever you start to feel overwhelmed, please do so.  Distant Worlds is real-time, but it proceeds at your pace,  you can think things over and issue orders just like in a turn-based game and only let things "run" when you are ready.

QuoteI had selected few pirates (or very few - can't remember) and I've already met them
I had selected 3 other AI determined factions in a 400 star system in a 10x10 system and selected them to start very far away. In my two hour game I've already met two of them and one of them has shown up in MY grid - AND I'm at war with them because they decided to blockade my ports and the other one requested I go to war with them for money...

Bad luck on the empire placement.  Unless you pretty much set pirates to None you will meet some.  They have hyperdrive and they like to explore.

QuoteShips are flying off in all directions.
One fleet ran out of fuel because when you select a fleet it shows a dotted ring (I thought it was a bingo fuel ring (something I had asked for in the very first release of Distant Worlds)) and I sent the fleet off to the edge of that ring....only to see them running out of fuel and limping back (I realise that is my fault and my lack of understanding) - but WHERE is the range and bingo fuel indicators for your fleet? Are they there?

The ring is total range, you don't want to go past half of that (and in Shadows, fleets and ships will try not to if automated) if you want them to return at full speed and with fuel.

QuoteI don't know why I bothered switching auto ship design off - because things have been going at such a pace I've had no time to look at them. I have NO idea what I'm researching.

I would keep ship design on automatic.  That's probably one of the last things that people feel comfortable taking manual control over, once they have mastered the rest of the game.

QuoteThe ships I do build become available and bugger off on their own somewhere!

There is another option that lets you turn on and off whether newly built ships start automated.  If you want to make sure they don't get orders from your advisors, just turn that off and they'll wait until you tell them what to do.

QuoteI was at war with the faction closest to me and I had a "suggestion" that I should attack something of theirs. I said ok. My 1st Fleet went off to do battle - and was annihilated  because the bases they had were plentiful! So - yeah - I should've investigated - but the enemy area was shrouded (undiscovered?) with lines through the system...should I have sent an Exploration vessel? Why did the AI suggest I do battle with something I had no chance to beat?

The AI is not perfect. :-)  In general, the advisors will give you good advice, but occasionally they will steer you wrong, just like real advisors.  If you are at war and have enough exploration ships and they are automated, they will generally try to keep an eye on enemy systems for you.  You can also assign them to explore or monitor enemy systems manually.

I think the important thing to realize is that the game itself can be customized to play just about any way you want.  While there are defaults, there is no one "correct" way to play Distant Worlds.  I think trying out the different aspects and figuring out what interests you the most will give you a good idea of what you should start with as your first "manual control" area.  Just fully automate the rest and focus on one thing.  You could try being in charge of research, or a single ship or fleet, or construction, or diplomacy and characters.  It can be fun to start out determining research paths, deciding what ships of each type to build and then seeing what your advisors manage to do with the fleets you give them.  There are many possible ways to approach the game.

Did you try starting in the Pre-Warp era?  Many have reported that helps them understand the game as you start off with less to manage.  I posted some suggestions for a very easy introductory game here.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3333889

Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 31, 2013, 02:23:11 AM
I was told there was a potential colony and I should build a colony ship to go there - so I did. And it went. And it left again because it came under attack from pirates.

So I sent my 2nd Fleet to defend it and sent it back - and got a message (at the top of the picture) telling me I wasn't able to colonise - they rejected me.

Then I get another message (the bottom image) telling me there's a potential colony...and it's the same one...and it's the same message.

My gripe here though is this - either the "potential" colony should be struck off the "potential" list, or the message should be changed to tell me to do something else...because I don't know what to do here. If I need to "forcefully" colonise the planet - then tell me that because I've already tried to colonise it by normal means.

Anyway - I have to go to work :-(

What happened here is that it's an independent world.  Your advisors suggested colonizing because there's a high probability that sending a colony ship there will also convince the existing inhabitants to join your empire.  Your first colony ship did not succeed - there is always a chance it will fail.  They are willing to send another one because the probability is still high that a second expedition will convince the locals to join peacefully.  You always have the option to send an invasion fleet instead and give them an offer they can't refuse. :-)

Quote from: ERutins on May 31, 2013, 12:16:09 PM

Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 31, 2013, 02:23:11 AM
I was told there was a potential colony and I should build a colony ship to go there - so I did. And it went. And it left again because it came under attack from pirates.

So I sent my 2nd Fleet to defend it and sent it back - and got a message (at the top of the picture) telling me I wasn't able to colonise - they rejected me.

Then I get another message (the bottom image) telling me there's a potential colony...and it's the same one...and it's the same message.

My gripe here though is this - either the "potential" colony should be struck off the "potential" list, or the message should be changed to tell me to do something else...because I don't know what to do here. If I need to "forcefully" colonise the planet - then tell me that because I've already tried to colonise it by normal means.

Anyway - I have to go to work :-(

What happened here is that it's an independent world.  Your advisors suggested colonizing because there's a high probability that sending a colony ship there will also convince the existing inhabitants to join your empire.  Your first colony ship did not succeed - there is always a chance it will fail.  They are willing to send another one because the probability is still high that a second expedition will convince the locals to join peacefully.  You always have the option to send an invasion fleet instead and give them an offer they can't refuse. :-)

Welcome to Grogheads Erik!

Dammit! He found us...hide!

Quote from: mikeck on May 31, 2013, 01:00:33 PM
Dammit! He found us...hide!

Oops.. I didn't realize we were hiding!

Hi Erik! Don't mind the loonies here! :D

Quote from: Yskonyn on May 31, 2013, 02:08:46 PM
Hi Erik! Don't mind the loonies here! :D

I prefer paranoid schizophrenic with associate personality disorder

It's well worth attempting to send another colony ship if the neutral planet's racial type is the same, or even of the same family group.  The extra initial head start in population is always helpful, even if it takes some work to sway them.

This is the reAson I play with independents "rare". Annoying. I also play without space monsters and with pirates on rare. Except pirates in the new expansion, they are merely annoyances I feel

Quote from: mikeck on May 31, 2013, 05:05:58 PM
This is the reAson I play with independents "rare". Annoying. I also play without space monsters and with pirates on rare. Except pirates in the new expansion, they are merely annoyances I feel

I feel the same way about space monsters but I enjoy the pirates and independents, they throw a wrinkle into things, especially the pirates who you can do a lot more with in the Shadows release, you can hire them to attack other empire's bases, to protect your own or you can go to war against them (which I am finding much harder to win with Shadows, they are tough opponents now).

Agreed. I play with pirates on in shadows. Before they were just something to blow up your ships until you could build a military. Now they are useful as they can smuggle stuff for you and are a lot more useful as mercenaries.

On a side not, something really cool: I role play with this game(have to create a back story)... And in my current game, I play as if my planet are colonists from "the west"  who left earth. The excluded nations were left to fight for earths remaining resources for which they went to war and - in essence- destroyed themselves. So, I am exploring my galaxy and I find "sol". It has 8 planets...the third is a continental planet with remnants of a independent human civilization! Cool. Naturally, I  am going to return and reclaim it in the name of the "Commonwealth of Planets"

Incidentally, I noticed there's now a checkbox you can click so that destroyed pirate factions don't respawn.  Yay! 



I have both a Wekkarus and Zenox campaign going right now, same settings for both:  Classic age, max size galaxy (both number of stars & sectors), 12 empires total, Normal difficulty.  I'm having fun with them so far. 


I do have to second one of JudgeDredd's gripes however -- empire placement continues to be an issue (and has been since the original game):  In both my campaigns, I've started out near two other empires (both are barely a sector away).  In a galaxy with 1500 stars and 75 sectors -- and only 12 empires -- this seems a bit much.  Yes, I know I could set the other empires to max distance, but then it seems like they always wind up crowded to close to each other, which hampers the AI even further. 

I feel that some further tweaking of the algorithm governing this may be warranted. 

Quote from: Yskonyn on May 31, 2013, 02:08:46 PM
Hi Erik! Don't mind the loonies here! :D

Well that would be all of us...  :P 


In any case, welcome to Grogheads, Erik!  Good to see you on here. 

Quote from: Nefaro on May 31, 2013, 04:11:36 PM
It's well worth attempting to send another colony ship if the neutral planet's racial type is the same, or even of the same family group.  The extra initial head start in population is always helpful, even if it takes some work to sway them.

+1 

Don't give up on that independent colony, JD!  Even if you lose a colony ship or two, it's still worth a few attempts. 

Quote from: Nefaro on May 31, 2013, 10:17:14 AM

If you play with 9 races, how many systems do you use?  The default 1000?

I've only been tinkering with the 400 system option because that's plenty large enough for jumping back in (and 3-4 AI races).  It may be a better introduction for those like Judge who feel overwhelmed, as I often felt like that once everything began to get established on larger settings.

Irregular galaxy with 700 stars. Pre-warp, pirates set to many, and colony prevalence and independent life set to occasional/scattered. Colony range limit is set to 2. Shadow story events are turned off. Galaxy aggression is set to restless.

Its turning to out to be one of the more interesting and challenging pre-warp games I've had so far. Started in a system with 13 planets and a ton of moons. Have multiple sources from the common materials (lead, steel, gold, and irridium) and plenty of fuel sources. Its almost year 10 and I'm now finishing up construction of all the mining stations. Haven't run into any pirates. Which has made stockpiling chormium, carbon fibre, nekros stone. and polymer a real challenge. I've been able to avoid any resource shortages by not building any I don't have to. I waited until year 8 before I built any military ships. Even then all I built where a few escorts to try and protect the outlying mining stations from raiders. Going to need those resources en masse in the next few game years though.

Quote from: Martok on May 31, 2013, 07:52:45 PM

Quote from: Yskonyn on May 31, 2013, 02:08:46 PM
Hi Erik! Don't mind the loonies here! :D

Well that would be all of us...  :P 

I like to think I'm at least partially sane.

Quote from: mikeck on May 31, 2013, 07:34:28 AM

I think the manual says somewhere that if a planet has a pre existing colony of an independent race, then it has to be the same race to colonize without invading. Most colonies don't have anyone on them so its not an issue. If you click on the planet, it should tell you whether you can colonize in the window bottom left

As for starting location. You can't set every race to be far away but one or two should have worked. I get beat results when I set them all to random... Usually seven races on a huge map with with over 1000 stars

Greetings  from the Darkverse :) The following information is my own observations mixed with things I have learned over the last few years playing Distant Worlds and from the Matrix forum and is current with the new expansion Shadows.     

You can send a colony ship from any race to colonize an independent, it does not have to be the same race. When the message comes up that tells you that an independent colony has been found by one of your far flung exploration ships it will say if they are friendly or not, there attitude towards your race comes from the race biases.txt which contains how every race feels about each other (values from 50 to -50) and also from what race type you are (Humanoid, Ursidian, Insectoid, Reptilian, Amphibian, Rodent, Machine). Not to sure if there are other factors involved like your reputation but the first two definitely hold true. If you find an independent that is the same race as yourself then its more or less assured that they will join you if you send a colony ship. Useful thing to remember is not to click the flag to set up an auto colonize, if you do that the nearest planet will get the build order and if that planet is on the fringe of your empire it may be lacking resources. The best thing to do is go to the construction yard screen, select your homeworld and build one from there, then go into the expansion planner and select the planet and click to send your newly ordered colony ship from there. This of course is down to your own logical assessment as to whether you have good enough fuel cell capacity and your hyper drive tech is going to get the ship there in a reasonable amount of time.

All races can be set to be distant from you from the game setup screen, makes for some really weird games if you set your start point as the center of the galaxy with about 6-8 races.

There are some really good videos on how to play Distant Worlds, it does seem over whelming at first but all the various parts can be tackled separately, let the AI help you in some areas while you concentrate on others, once your comfortable and feel that you have got the hang of an area take over another area manually and just slowly reduce the AI help till you get to the point that you are happy with, the AI in Shadows has been improved immeasurably to that end. I myself after playing for a few years still leave the AI to deal with taxes, troop recruitment, suggestions for trade, war and sanctions and colony buildings, I sometimes take over the intelligence part as well if I am in the mood. The important thing to remember is that it is your game, if you want the AI to do 90% of the work then let it, if you want to micromanage everything and check out what freight is being hauled following freighters to see where and what they do, do it, as long as your enjoying the game then do not worry about how others play, if your stuck there are always folk to ask over at the Matrix forums, we are a small community but try to be a friendly and helpful one.

Darkspire

Quote from: Darkspire on June 01, 2013, 04:14:15 AM
...
All races can be set to be distant from you from the game setup screen, makes for some really weird games if you set your start point as the center of the galaxy with about 6-8 races.
...

Thanks for your tips - but this "placement" of races simply doesn't work.

Here...this is my galaxy - there are 3 AI factions and look where it placed one of them
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1160.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq499%2Fwmar1967%2FMisc%2FSnap1-1_zps9b4faf3c.jpg&hash=b7ddbb058cefeaf2ff326febdf885a2fd0ade085) (http://s1160.photobucket.com/user/wmar1967/media/Misc/Snap1-1_zps9b4faf3c.jpg.html)

I never use the setups for empires unless I am testing new races for my mod, rest of the time I just leave it on random for about 8 races.
All I can say from from your image is what size is the galaxy? looks like a 10x10+ possibly? how many stars and how many empires? I am no expert on this matter but I tend to look at like I am looking down from above at a square box and have, for example, 20 marbles (me and 19 empires) now I put one in the middle of the box (me) and then try to place the other 19 marbles equal distance and as far as possible away from myself, not sure but I would say that I would have a problem with placing them like that, there are going to be some closer than others.
After a few games under your belt and a fair understanding of the tech tree the setup you have posted would be a fairly decent start IMHO, resources are not distributed evenly across the galaxy, you have two close neighbors to trade with for any missing resources or two close targets to increase your empires planets, If that was me and I had mid range tech I would take the homeworlds and just expand the empire, I tend to go with the 'kill a sapling before it becomes a tree' approach, yet again with a few games under your belt you will know what races can cause you problems and which ones are cannon fodder.

Darkspire

It's 8x8 (I did think I had setup 10x10) - and 400 stars

You never mentioned the amount of empires but on a middle sized map you are going to have problems with distance from you with the more empires added on game setup. Even on a 15x15 1400 19 empires can sometimes be generated close to your home system. On a map of that size I would say set the number of empires to 8, the settings to distant and your empire at center on an irregular map and see what you end up with.
Remember that the amount of empires you set up do not mean that is the limit for the game, I generally put in 12 empires on a 10x10 700 and by mid game there are sometimes 15-16 empires and 10+ pirate factions.

Darkspire

Here is the game setup screen (400 8x8) and a map of the result, I am in the middle and the other red rings are the other empires (eight)
As you can see there is still one, green, possibly Zenox, that is still closer than the others but the setup does a fair job of setting things up the way you want it to.

Darkspire

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1125.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl588%2FNecrospire%2Fgamesetup1_zpsad48ca07.jpg&hash=64eaad766c5ab863e933d7cd6206dcc62b8a7764)

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1125.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl588%2FNecrospire%2Fgamesetup2_zps828b2091.jpg&hash=748c3505391ff18eb92525149c20180083ec17d8)

Ok. I think I'll take it you haven't read my posts...it would have helped. ..honestly.
I've said several times...3 factions.

So game setup was
Me
Least amount of pirates with no respawn
3 AI choosen factions and as far away as possible
400 stars
8x8 galaxy

Last time...given that setup...why did an AI faction land in MY sector out of the 64 available (or 32 just using the fringes)
Given the map size and the number of AI factions, I'd have expected at least 3 or 4 sectors around me to be clear of AI...I don't think that's unreasonable

That came off a little "short" - and I apologise.

But I have said all this in my posts which are in the last couple of pages of this thread and the whole reason I was a bit pissed off about an AI faction starting so close was exactly because of the size of the galaxy and the number of AI factions.

I dunno...seems to me you're making a mountain out of a molehill here.  So what, you played a random sandbox game and there were some AI empires located in or around your home sector. If you don't like that, reload and start again.  In my opinion, its a minor issue in an extremely complex game.  Does DW have some faults? You betcha'....but compared to the amount of stuff DW gets right, the foibles are negligible.

Based upon your complaints, you seem to have trouble managing the complexity of the game, and learning how to use the UI effectively while balancing the automation features.  No offense, but this is YOUR problem, not the game's. You may just not like this gaming system, and while that is totally ok, I don't think its fair to go out of your way to find faults with the game that do not really exist.  For instance, your complaint that ships zoom off in different directions at game start.  Why is this a problem?  IF you have them set to AI, those ships are off to perform the function that they were designed to do...you'd prefer them to just sit idle and do nothing?  Exploration ships go and explore...construction ships go and build...military vessels go and patrol and defend, etc. etc.  This is a strength of the AI, not a weakness.  Try learning it first, before you attack it as if there is something inherently wrong or bugged with the game.

DW is a unique game that offers players space 4x gaming in a manner that has never been done before.  You can't expect everyone to like it, but the vast majority of players praise it.  The few complaints I do see seem to come from people who just jumped in and want to give up at the first sign that effort may be required to master it.  They continue to fight and struggle against the system, rather than trying to learn it and adapt.

Quote from: JudgeDredd on June 01, 2013, 07:44:16 AM
That came off a little "short" - and I apologise.

But I have said all this in my posts which are in the last couple of pages of this thread and the whole reason I was a bit pissed off about an AI faction starting so close was exactly because of the size of the galaxy and the number of AI factions.

Not a problem, I know only too well what it is like when you are trying to find out why something is going wrong and can not find the solution. I misread, I thought you meant that those three empires were close to you at startup and the others were more where you wanted them, I just tried an 8x8 400 with three empires, irregular map with me at the center and three AI ended up at the edges. Maybe there starting position also has something to do with the map shape as well? Although I sometimes play on other map shapes I prefer the irregular map.

Darkspire

Can you actually 'see' where all the other Alien Races are at the start of the game? Or do you have to 'explore' to find them?

Quote from: Tuna on June 01, 2013, 08:58:44 AM
Can you actually 'see' where all the other Alien Races are at the start of the game? Or do you have to 'explore' to find them?

No you have to find them, most by exploring, some by pirates selling your details or you trading details with pirates. The only reason you can see them on the map above is I used the in game editor, that displays everything if you use it. The exploring part can yield lucrative trinkets beside races, abandoned ships, mines and bases, rare resources, planets with special resources, races awakened from hypersleep and many others, the exploring is quite fun.

Darkspire

Quote from: JudgeDredd on June 01, 2013, 06:01:51 AM
It's 8x8 (I did think I had setup 10x10) - and 400 stars

I just started a new 8x8 & 400 star game with 4 AI players.  And I, too, began near the center of the galaxy with an AI empire's homeworld under a sector away.  I've seen this kind of setup fairly regularly in all versions of DW. 

I just look at it as an unusual diplomatic challenge.  In this sense, you can end up with either an early ally or staunch rival fairly quickly.  The earlier friction and competition for quality planets can actually be pretty fun, if you can keep up. 

I don't expect all the empires to begin equidistant from each other, as that would make it a bit too predictable.  However, I would still like to see a minimum distance between them because your example is a bit too close (and I've experienced at least one start as close as that too).  I believe there's some setting for that?  Hopefully they'll take another look at capital placement if the randomness is putting you too close.

I dunno... I play 10x10 with 700 stars and 6 races. I set all to "random" and it seems fine. I e never had a race right next to me. All seem evenly spread out. Maybe luck of the draw. I usually set my own empire up I am out arm so may that has something to do with it?

I always have pirates far away because they annoy me.

nevermind

same again  ;D

It's all good in the hood.

BTW, welcome to Grogheads, Darkspire.  :) 

JD, someone started a similar thread concerning your complaint on Matrix:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3338163

May be good to keep an eye on to see what Matrix has to say.

Well I spoke too soon. Started a game with all 7 races on a 10x10 with 700 stars on random distance. At least 2 are on my doorstep. Just makes war inevitable

Quote from: Martok on June 01, 2013, 07:55:27 PM
BTW, welcome to Grogheads, Darkspire.  :)

Thank you  :) Do I call you general? Can not believe I did not find this place before now.

Quote from: mikeck on June 01, 2013, 10:41:45 PM
Well I spoke too soon. Started a game with all 7 races on a 10x10 with 700 stars on random distance. At least 2 are on my doorstep. Just makes war inevitable

And early trade options available or a good reason to change your tech direction and gain an advantage. Are you playing with the setup I outlined above (the one with the map)? As I said previously, just makes things more interesting, If you can take advantage of the situation you could end up with two homeworld systems and a couple of subjugated races to supply income for your empire.

Darkspire 

Quote from: Darkspire on June 01, 2013, 08:23:04 AM

Quote from: JudgeDredd on June 01, 2013, 07:44:16 AM
That came off a little "short" - and I apologise.

But I have said all this in my posts which are in the last couple of pages of this thread and the whole reason I was a bit pissed off about an AI faction starting so close was exactly because of the size of the galaxy and the number of AI factions.

Not a problem, I know only too well what it is like when you are trying to find out why something is going wrong and can not find the solution. I misread, I thought you meant that those three empires were close to you at startup and the others were more where you wanted them, I just tried an 8x8 400 with three empires, irregular map with me at the center and three AI ended up at the edges. Maybe there starting position also has something to do with the map shape as well? Although I sometimes play on other map shapes I prefer the irregular map.

Darkspire

I'm pretty sure I choose my position as random...so maybe that's the problem?

Quote from: mikeck on June 01, 2013, 10:41:45 PM
Well I spoke too soon. Started a game with all 7 races on a 10x10 with 700 stars on random distance. At least 2 are on my doorstep. Just makes war inevitable

Sorry Mikeck - but that deserves a wee lol  :P

Quote from: WYBaugh on June 01, 2013, 09:41:23 PM
JD, someone started a similar thread concerning your complaint on Matrix:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3338163

May be good to keep an eye on to see what Matrix has to say.

Thanks

I've just went to start a new game and went through all the options again...and I have to apologise

It seems letting the game generate the AI factions (which is definitely what I did) means you cannot specify proximity.

It seems my short term memory problem got the better of me and let me think I had specified the proximity

So I apologise.

Jarhead
It may have been a molehill to you, but it was my mountain. As it turns out it wasn't even that - but a stupid error on my part, likely partially caused by my lack of understanding of the mechanics and my frustrations experienced through that.

If you all don't mind, I'm off to have a HUGE chunk of humble pie - om nom nom.

Hey, I'm just glad you were able to to figure out what the issue was.  :) 


More importantly JD, I truly hope you're able to find some enjoyment out of Distant Worlds.  Of course it goes without saying the game's not for everyone, but I'd be genuinely sad if it turned out you were one of them.  There really is a great experience to be had with this game, especially if one comes at it from the right approach/perspective.  I know there has to be a way to put it in terms you would understand/appreciate so that you might "get it", but I'm frustrated that I don't know what that is.  :(  Argh. 

Quote from: Darkspire on June 01, 2013, 11:18:57 PM

Quote from: Martok on June 01, 2013, 07:55:27 PM
BTW, welcome to Grogheads, Darkspire.  :)

Thank you  :) Do I call you general? Can not believe I did not find this place before now.

Heh, you can call me "Dick-face" for all I care.  ;)  Either way, though, I'm glad you found us! 

Quote from: JudgeDredd on June 02, 2013, 03:06:46 AM
I've just went to start a new game and went through all the options again...and I have to apologise

It seems letting the game generate the AI factions (which is definitely what I did) means you cannot specify proximity.

It seems my short term memory problem got the better of me and let me think I had specified the proximity

So I apologise.

Jarhead
It may have been a molehill to you, but it was my mountain. As it turns out it wasn't even that - but a stupid error on my part, likely partially caused by my lack of understanding of the mechanics and my frustrations experienced through that.

If you all don't mind, I'm off to have a HUGE chunk of humble pie - om nom nom.

No Ned for pie or apologies. Just play! Hopefully, you'll get used to the mechanics and start really enjoying the game.

Well, I started a Pre-Warp game and I have to say - the pace is MUCH more to my liking.

I've always thought (from my own pov) that Distant Worlds strength is, for me, also it's weakness...it's configurability. I always start a game and everything kicks off. Ships are flying off in all directions, messages are appearing about potential colonies, new races, discoveries, requests for building ships and bases all fire at you...the user is bombarded with a lot of info...and as 4X isn't really my normal cup of tea - the initial bombardment of info has always put me off continuing.

But pre-warp is so much easier. I'm still a bit flummoxed with things - but the information overload is not there.

Much better  :D

Quote from: JudgeDredd on June 02, 2013, 03:06:46 AM
I've just went to start a new game and went through all the options again...and I have to apologise

It seems letting the game generate the AI factions (which is definitely what I did) means you cannot specify proximity.

It seems my short term memory problem got the better of me and let me think I had specified the proximity

So I apologise.

Jarhead
It may have been a molehill to you, but it was my mountain. As it turns out it wasn't even that - but a stupid error on my part, likely partially caused by my lack of understanding of the mechanics and my frustrations experienced through that.

If you all don't mind, I'm off to have a HUGE chunk of humble pie - om nom nom.

Hmmm.. I'll have to look at how I started, because for my 'first' game.. I had a big ugly AI neighbor in my neighborhood.. played for a lil while, then he declared war on me and that was that.. Will try and start again, paying attention to the settings you mentioned Judge.

Quote from: Tuna on June 02, 2013, 08:07:58 AM

Hmmm.. I'll have to look at how I started, because for my 'first' game.. I had a big ugly AI neighbor in my neighborhood.. played for a lil while, then he declared war on me and that was that.. Will try and start again, paying attention to the settings you mentioned Judge.

First setup screens.
normal empire in classic age.
10x10 700 on an irregular map
set pirate proximity to distant
leave everything else as it is

Second screen
set the independents to scattered (this gives the pirates 'less to feed on' so they wont grow to much) and the colony prevalence to abundant
leave the influence range (should be 100%) and the range limits as they are

Third screen
Try the Ackdarian race

Fourth screen

Set your location to center
home system to excellent
corruption to low
Government to Monarchy
Any other settings ignore for now

Fifth screen

This setup will give you four empires, they start on the same level with the same tech but there home system is not as good.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1125.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl588%2FNecrospire%2FSecret%2520Squiggle%2Fgamesetup3_zpsb7351f24.jpg&hash=9caad6a9979d68ecbcce87a9114add521435a90c)

Sixth screen

Turn off all the enable options (wait till you have got a few games under your belt the ROTS storyline in particular can be quite hard)
select territory 100%
victory threshold 100%
make sure everything except territory has the check boxes off

Start the game!

This will give you a pretty good start and let you get used to how things work, give it a few games and you have more of an idea of what does what then you will understand more about how to set a game up.

Have fun  :)

Darkspire

Quote from: Darkspire on June 02, 2013, 09:50:53 AM

Quote from: Tuna on June 02, 2013, 08:07:58 AM

Hmmm.. I'll have to look at how I started, because for my 'first' game.. I had a big ugly AI neighbor in my neighborhood.. played for a lil while, then he declared war on me and that was that.. Will try and start again, paying attention to the settings you mentioned Judge.

First setup screens.
normal empire in classic age.
10x10 700 on an irregular map
set pirate proximity to distant
leave everything else as it is

Second screen
set the independents to scattered (this gives the pirates 'less to feed on' so they wont grow to much) and the colony prevalence to abundant
leave the influence range (should be 100%) and the range limits as they are

Third screen
Try the Ackdarian race

Fourth screen

Set your location to center
home system to excellent
corruption to low
Government to Monarchy
Any other settings ignore for now

Fifth screen

This setup will give you four empires, they start on the same level with the same tech but there home system is not as good.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1125.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl588%2FNecrospire%2FSecret%2520Squiggle%2Fgamesetup3_zpsb7351f24.jpg&hash=9caad6a9979d68ecbcce87a9114add521435a90c)

Sixth screen

Turn off all the enable options (wait till you have got a few games under your belt the ROTS storyline in particular can be quite hard)
select territory 100%
victory threshold 100%
make sure everything except territory has the check boxes off

Start the game!

This will give you a pretty good start and let you get used to how things work, give it a few games and you have more of an idea of what does what then you will understand more about how to set a game up.

Have fun  :)

Darkspire

Cool thanks.. Hopefully this will be like the wading pool for beginners  ::)

It will still be a challenge in Shadows for a player that has played Distant Worlds before  ;)

Like I said about the AI except in this case just increase the difficulty as you feel more comfortable with the game. The game setup I laid out is still on normal difficulty and the AI can come up with a few surprises when you do not expect them to with the new AI routines added in Shadows, that is one of the best things about DW, there is so much to do in it, what with story lines, game setup, difficulty etc. IMHO I found the MOO2 level up that I have been looking for for the last 18 years and then some :)

Darkspire

Judge...let me make two recommendations to reduce the feeling of being overwhelmed:

First: automate your exploration ships and construction ships unless there is a specific location you want to look at. If you have a about 12 exploration ships, you will have the surrounding areas mapped in no time. This way, you don't have the constant "this ship is done with its missio " stuff. The construction ships will just wait for the next assignment on auto. So and you see a planet worth mining, click on it and in the display window (bottom left) click on the "build gas/ mine her" icon. It will Automatically send it to the closest construction ship...so keep them on Auto.

This way, you are ignoring exploration and construction ships

2. DON'T WORRY ABOUT SHIPS FLYING AROUND. I know it can fluster you to see a bunch of ships flying around for no reason but here's the deal: those are private ships owned by private companies. Each one is flying to a mine to pick up a resource flying to a construction ship/shipyard to drop off a resource. Ignore them, when they are flying around, it's a good thing.

The beauty of DW is this private sector. Every constructor or shipyard that is building something (building, ship, mine, etc) requires minerals like silicon, lead, gold, etc. the constructor ships and shipyards actually carry supplies of this stuff on board. The ships will load up on different supplies depending on what it is building. If it runs out, construction stops while a private freighter is dispatched to carry that mineral to it from a mine. The game actually keeps track of what each freighter is carrying, what each shipyard is using and how much supply the shipyards have.

So in effect, you have a REAL private trading sector that is not abstracted,...every mineral needed must be mined and transported by a ship to the shipyard building it. The more items traded by Judge Dread priva-co... The more money it makes.  This is wht makes warfare so fun...targeting his mines and trade ships really matters.

So, short version is : automate explorers and construction ships and then ignore all ten ships flying around...they aren't yours

Quote from: Darkspire on June 02, 2013, 10:48:01 AM
It will still be a challenge in Shadows for a player that has played Distant Worlds before  ;)

Like I said about the AI except in this case just increase the difficulty as you feel more comfortable with the game. The game setup I laid out is still on normal difficulty and the AI can come up with a few surprises when you do not expect them to with the new AI routines added in Shadows, that is one of the best things about DW, there is so much to do in it, what with story lines, game setup, difficulty etc. IMHO I found the MOO2 level up that I have been looking for for the last 18 years and then some :)

Darkspire

I actually don't have Shadows.. just bought the base game and first to expansions.. figured 50 bucks was enough for something I wasn't too sure I was going to like.. Even struggled with doing that.. lol.. wanted to just by the base.. but hear great things about adding expansions and figured if I didn't do it now, I'd lose out on saving 10 bucks..

The sale for Shadows does not end till July, you can buy it at the discounted rate even without buying all the others I think. Have a look on the Matrix site, I must admit the new features in Shadows really turned the game on its head and a lot of work has gone into balancing, AI and economic features and what with the three new game starts as well is well worth the investment, I was really surprised at the content and what has been done to the overall game, I have not really stopped playing Distant worlds for the last 2+ years, there is no other game than X2 that has scored that high on my games mark and ever kept my interest for so long and I have been gaming since the late 70's (yes I am a fossil) on just about every computer and console you can think of  :)

Darkspire

Quote from: Darkspire on June 02, 2013, 11:28:33 AM
The sale for Shadows does not end till July, you can buy it at the discounted rate even without buying all the others I think. Have a look on the Matrix site, I must admit the new features in Shadows really turned the game on its head and a lot of work has gone into balancing, AI and economic features and what with the three new game starts as well is well worth the investment, I was really surprised at the content and what has been done to the overall game, I have not really stopped playing Distant worlds for the last 2+ years, there is no other game than X2 that has scored that high on my games mark and ever kept my interest for so long and I have been gaming since the late 70's (yes I am a fossil) on just about every computer and console you can think of  :)

Darkspire

Thanks for the info on the sale, if I 'click' with this game, then I will probably grab Shadows as well..

Quote from: mikeck on June 02, 2013, 11:05:48 AM
Judge...let me make two recommendations to reduce the feeling of being overwhelmed:

First: automate your exploration ships and construction ships unless there is a specific location you want to look at. If you have a about 12 exploration ships, you will have the surrounding areas mapped in no time. This way, you don't have the constant "this ship is done with its missio " stuff. The construction ships will just wait for the next assignment on auto. So and you see a planet worth mining, click on it and in the display window (bottom left) click on the "build gas/ mine her" icon. It will Automatically send it to the closest construction ship...so keep them on Auto.

This way, you are ignoring exploration and construction ships

2. DON'T WORRY ABOUT SHIPS FLYING AROUND. I know it can fluster you to see a bunch of ships flying around for no reason but here's the deal: those are private ships owned by private companies. Each one is flying to a mine to pick up a resource flying to a construction ship/shipyard to drop off a resource. Ignore them, when they are flying around, it's a good thing.

The beauty of DW is this private sector. Every constructor or shipyard that is building something (building, ship, mine, etc) requires minerals like silicon, lead, gold, etc. the constructor ships and shipyards actually carry supplies of this stuff on board. The ships will load up on different supplies depending on what it is building. If it runs out, construction stops while a private freighter is dispatched to carry that mineral to it from a mine. The game actually keeps track of what each freighter is carrying, what each shipyard is using and how much supply the shipyards have.

So in effect, you have a REAL private trading sector that is not abstracted,...every mineral needed must be mined and transported by a ship to the shipyard building it. The more items traded by Judge Dread priva-co... The more money it makes.  This is wht makes warfare so fun...targeting his mines and trade ships really matters.

So, short version is : automate explorers and construction ships and then ignore all ten ships flying around...they aren't yours

This is definitely true. In my first game, I played the Ackdarians and the Sluken homeworld started 2 stars away from me. Naturally war broke out rather quickly. They were a bit ahead with tech, because I got off to a slow start with the warp precursors. I managed to take out a lot of their ships raiding my homesystem, but they had targeted mining stations and were effective. A while later my entire navy was out of fuel because I didn't realize there weren't any gas mining stations.

Anyone answer what's going on here?

I've set a construction ship to build a defensive platform at the highlighted planet - but it seems to be buggering off in the wrong direction. It does say "Build Defensive base at Acorea 12" and Acorea 12 is the circled planet - but it's heading off north east!
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1160.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq499%2Fwmar1967%2FMisc%2FSnap3_zpse25c1cb5.jpg&hash=57f0bc771ba067b1d1270d05c22af19ba2925f8e) (http://s1160.photobucket.com/user/wmar1967/media/Misc/Snap3_zpse25c1cb5.jpg.html)

Was there a resource shortage preventing progress on it?

I'm not sure if construction ships have to load up on resources for building, too.   Was it resupplying?

Could've been Nefaro. I am having some supply issues.

Starting as pre-warp certainly made the game easier to handle from a pace perspective - but it does leave you resource hungry!

Quote from: JudgeDredd on June 02, 2013, 03:13:43 PM
Anyone answer what's going on here?

I've set a construction ship to build a defensive platform at the highlighted planet - but it seems to be buggering off in the wrong direction. It does say "Build Defensive base at Acorea 12" and Acorea 12 is the circled planet - but it's heading off north east!
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1160.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq499%2Fwmar1967%2FMisc%2FSnap3_zpse25c1cb5.jpg&hash=57f0bc771ba067b1d1270d05c22af19ba2925f8e) (http://s1160.photobucket.com/user/wmar1967/media/Misc/Snap3_zpse25c1cb5.jpg.html)

When you tell a construction ship to build a mine or gas mine it will 'bugger off' to the nearest SP to get the needed resources and then return to build the mine, hence increasing the tech level for warp drives becomes a high priority to save time, the Equinox drive is a good choice of drive till you can access a Torrent one.

Darkspire

Quote from: Nefaro on June 02, 2013, 03:16:01 PM
Was there a resource shortage preventing progress on it?

I'm not sure if construction ships have to load up on resources for building, too.   Was it resupplying?

That was the first thing I thought of as well.  JD, it's possible your construction ship first needs to swing by a mining station or two to pick up needed materials. 


EDIT:  Never mind, Darkspire beat me to it.  :) 

Well...it's with great sadness I have to say - my game is done. I'm in negative equity and I've lost my space port (I accidentally retired it lol)

Also, I saw a message (more than once) telling me I should stop my protection payments to pirates - and this time I decided to do so - only they had a rather powerful ship in my system that wiped out my 1st Fleet, 2 Defence bases and a weapons research station before I found out where to go to ask them for protection again!

I eventually worked out how to design a ship and designed a Colony ship - only to discover I created one that had a max speed of 2 and only 4% range of my system...meaning it can't go anywhere - and where it can go, it goes really, reeeeaaaalllly slowly! lol - disaster!

I'm being told I should consider hyperdrives - but I can't actually see any hyperdrive components in my list of components.

Anyway - I have to start again I think. I don't have any money (-4k) and -9k cash flow.

But I've learned some stuff.

Erik also posted some settings for a beginner game on the Matrix forums. http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3333889

You have to research hyperdrives. Once you do, it will show up in the components as a name like "gerax" or something like that. In the right of the design screen under the graph are numbers...one will say "sector range" with a number like 3.5. That is the sector diameter of the range.

If I was you, I would seriously let the AI design every ship except military ships. If you want to colonize a planet, click on it and them click the checkered flag. If it says "no colony ship designed" then you need to make sure you have researched colonization tech and the two underneath that have to due with storage and enhanced storage (I think that's it)

^ I did  - but there was no Colony Ship design...so I designed one - a bad one.

Also Research is on auto...and I've been told we have hyperdrive capability - and the ship design page was saying (at the top where it suggests modules) in yellow "Consider Adding Hyperdrive component" - but I can't see anything in the list of components that says Hyperdrive...or even looks like it's some sort of propulsion system except for the ones already in use - fuel cells, Proton thrusters, fission reactor

Actually I've just spotted Warp Bubble Generator!

AI is pretty good about designing non military ships. If it hasn't designed a colony ship, then it's probably because you can make one that's worth a crap. Usually it's because you haven't researched construction yards up to the point that you can build size 400 ships which is about the size a hyperspace traveling colony ship will be.

If you feel up to it, I would set research to manual. Then pause the game and take your time looking at the 3 fields and what each does. Then select some. You can queue research

Also, you may not know that you can slow and speed up the pace of the game with the arrows in the top left. I usually run at 50%...makes for a more "realistic" pace I find

Stupid question, how do you build a research station so it stays in orbit of a planet?

Quote from: vyshka on June 02, 2013, 05:33:08 PM
Stupid question, how do you build a research station so it stays in orbit of a planet?

Build it through the planet construction que, either by right clicking on the colony and selecting from the build option, or go through the colony menu, the planet icon on the top left of the UI.

Quote from: mikeck on June 02, 2013, 04:49:34 PM
AI is pretty good about designing non military ships. If it hasn't designed a colony ship, then it's probably because you can make one that's worth a crap. Usually it's because you haven't researched construction yards up to the point that you can build size 400 ships which is about the size a hyperspace traveling colony ship will be.

If you feel up to it, I would set research to manual. Then pause the game and take your time looking at the 3 fields and what each does. Then select some. You can queue research

Also, you may not know that you can slow and speed up the pace of the game with the arrows in the top left. I usually run at 50%...makes for a more "realistic" pace I find

Well - I'm not going to go on and on for fear of making a big issue out of this - because I'm not - just answering some of your points.

There was no colonial ship in the design shop - I had to make one. Once I had made one, it became available under the planets available construction options. I had been getting messages about increased size of ships being available, though I'll be honest and tell you I can't remember anything specific about the size - just that the capacity had grown.

There was also hyperspace technology researched - unfortunately I was looking in the list for Hyperspace and not some other name it had assigned to it (in this case Warp Bubble Generator. I discovered, when I found that, that the TYPE column showed HYP....so I know what to look for next time.

But I was able to design a Colony ship with the Warp Bubble Generator and enough drives, power and fuel to give it a decent punch.


Having said that...
I did (once) get a message to say there was a colony I could colonise...but that was after I had created my design and had started building the ship. It's more than likely that I didn't have the resources when I created the design (some of the components added did show a lack of resources, but I carried on designing anyway because I guessed they would show up) and therefore I "jumped in" before the AI could...likely had I not jumped in to design one, then the AI would have offered to create one when I had the necessary resources.

So I think the AI would have created one when I had the necessary resources available. I jumped in as soon as I saw my population grow to more than 5m (which I believe is what is required to create a colony?). What can I say - I was excited that I had eventually developed Hyperdrive and the colony module and got to 5m pop.


My current game is a dead dog though. My cash flow is positive, but I've ran out of just about everything I need to make anything at all. All building is on stall and I really don't know where I'm likely to get the things I need.

One thing I would like to ask...I'm sure I saw someone post on here about getting Pirates to do missions (bring you resources) you need. Well...they could've made a shed load out of me - but they didn't offer and I couldn't see where to ask. The only thing the pirates were doing to me were blockading me, attacking me or offering me protection

Is there some special menu you need to go to to get them to bring you stuff you need, or did I misread that on here?

I am not to sure what goes on with the tick box for the auto refit check box in the empire options, every time I had that on when I first started playing it used to do the same for me, I leave it unchecked now and the auto designs are made as soon as the tech is available, I manually design state ships, bases and private bases, the private sector ships (freighters etc) I leave to the AI to design, the AI designing in Shadows seems much better, that may have something to do with the new design templates, leave the check box off in empire options and click apply and see how that works for you.
The smuggling missions are selected from any planet in your empire, select a planet and look at the control bar below the planet status box, you have a defend and smuggling mission assign button, one for each, click on the smuggling one and select all, the pirates (if there about) will then fill any resource blanks in your empire.

Darkspire

Just remember that hiring Pirates to smuggle goods to one of your locations costs money for each one delivered.

Usually the AI will suggest a pirate smuggling mission to you, if you're hurting for resources.  BUT they won't if you're also hurting for cash.

Well - after my initial enthusiasm for the pre-warp game - I'm afraid to say that's not really working. Resources are incredibly low, there are a shit load of pirates about who either want to attack you or take money off you, I've got everything on auto as advised (except when my ships seem to be doing nothing) and I've ran out of just about everything (including money). Also because I have no warp capability, I can't intercept a pirate destroying my mining stations - so they always end up deader than a dead thing.

It really is an incredibly difficult start - which is a pit - because I much preferred the pace of the game.

One last wee bitch before I go and try another game on normal....I HATE games that don't tell you why you can't do something and you have to go digging. One I remember from the past was Gary Grigsby's World at War. You'd select a fleet and click on a region to move it there - and it said "You can't move there"...now the game knows why I can't move there - because it just told me - so why not (for the love of god) tell ME why I can't move there...why is it a secret.

Same with this one. Had 3 construction ships doing nothing so I ordered one to build a Gas Mining Station at a planet to get the much needed Caslon - and it started heading home. No message. No warning. It knew it couldn't do what I was asking so simply ignored the order...for the love of god - why not TELL me it's because I don't have the required Silicon and Steel? I had to go looking in the Ship Design page to see what was required to build a mining station and saw that I didn't have the required Silicon or Steel.

I don't know if developers think that's part of the beauty of a game - but it's not.

I know - mountain molehill and given the grand scheme of the game, molehill for sure - but the game excels in information. You have hot tips. You have context sensitive help pages. You have additional links on help pages. The whole game seems to be designed to provide help...and yet it can't tell you why you can't build something?

Anyway - I'm off to try a normal game and watch all the ships fly off in all directions. At least my fleets will be able to intercept enemies at a fairly reasonable rate.

Don't say I didn't warn you...pre warp is harder. Try normal start with space creatures at none and pirates at the lowest setting (other than none) and put them at "distant". Your not doing anything wrong. It's a hard game. I am in a fight for my pixelated life right now. I have protection agreements with 5 pirate orgs right now. I can't attack any of them because I am preoccupied in a war. If I cancel an agreement, they start raiding my colonies. My defensive bases at coming along slowly due to resource shortages. Money is tight limiting military. This is REAL difficulty...not fake "give the AI a ton of extra money or resources" cheat difficulty.

FYI, construction ships will almost always run home before building something in early games be aide their storage is so small. They can't carry enough...it's normal. Just click on the planet with te Caslon and then in the window click the "build mine here" window. That will send the closest constructor. Just keep queuing them up and let the AI do its thing.

Your "fighting" the Ai...getting frustrated with stuff like that. Just que up your mines, set explorers to auto and drive on.

Another hint...manually set up your AI races. Give them all the same tech level as you. If you leave it at random, some will be very advanced

Judge, I started my second game with Darkspire's recommendations where I specified each opponent one at a time specifying that they start far away from me, and it's going a lot better than my first game, where I got stomped on quickly!  8)

I need to play the new expansion.  I bought it.  Installed it and just have not gotten around to firing it up yet.

Bison,
Generally, I am finding Shadows to be much more difficult: even excluding the pre warp start gimmick and increased pirate abilities. The big one for me is the economy changes. Used to be that once I had a few colonies, I was rolling in cash. Also, from the beginning,  I could spam mines. My first game I bankrupted my private sector doing that and with new colony growth rates, you will have chronic financial difficulties and chronic material shortages. Very challenging

I got a message tonight saying that another empire had hired a pirate faction to attack me. So I go to the diplomacy screen to return the favor in kind and realized that I don't have the option. Am I missing something? Does a pirate faction have to build a base on my planet for that option to open up?

Quote from: mikeck on June 03, 2013, 06:26:37 PM
Don't say I didn't warn you...pre warp is harder. Try normal start with space creatures at none and pirates at the lowest setting (other than none) and put them at "distant". Your not doing anything wrong. It's a hard game. I am in a fight for my pixelated life right now. I have protection agreements with 5 pirate orgs right now. I can't attack any of them because I am preoccupied in a war. If I cancel an agreement, they start raiding my colonies. My defensive bases at coming along slowly due to resource shortages. Money is tight limiting military. This is REAL difficulty...not fake "give the AI a ton of extra money or resources" cheat difficulty.

FYI, construction ships will almost always run home before building something in early games be aide their storage is so small. They can't carry enough...it's normal. Just click on the planet with te Caslon and then in the window click the "build mine here" window. That will send the closest constructor. Just keep queuing them up and let the AI do its thing.

Your "fighting" the Ai...getting frustrated with stuff like that. Just que up your mines, set explorers to auto and drive on.

Another hint...manually set up your AI races. Give them all the same tech level as you. If you leave it at random, some will be very advanced

You did say it was harder...I was liking the calmer beginning and got sucked in.

Two games down in pre-warp and it's a no go - way too difficult for me at the moment.

And I think you're right - I am fighting the AI to a certain extent. I have a habit of wanting to micro manage (Command Ops is a prime example) and rather than let the AI get on and do things I'm continually questioning it.

There are "some" reasons for that though...
1. AI advising me to cancel a deal with pirates - then they come in and destroy my bases - so I NEVER listen to those anymore
2. AI Telling me Warp Bubble Generator is available and immediately after I am asked if I want to build 4 exploration ships...I guess it's because there's Hyperdrive available - so I say yes - only to see 4 Exploration ships sitting there with no hyperdrive fitted AND nothing to do (my system is explored...I only agreed because of the previous message about hyperdrive!)
3. AI continually (and I mean pretty constantly) advising me that I should build ships for X amount of money (value of X varies) and quite often I click on that message to open up the ship building dialogue only to see NO ships being recommended for build

Those are just some examples off the top of my head which makes you doubt the games AI and starts you along the path of wanting to control everything and second guessing what the AI is doing.

As for the construction ships - it's fair enough it's down to my lack of understanding. For example I didn't know they had to carry components in order to build something (don't ask me how I thought they built something - with fairy dust I expect)...but if you tell something in game to do something (regardless of what kind of ship it is or what task) and it can't do it - the game should report that to you. There's no reason for a game to NOT tell you that information. If the ship had a lack of resources a message should've been displayed saying "Not enough resources - job queued" or something

I know...this from the guy who was saying he was bombarded with messages...but that is the kind of message that I want to see - in place of, say, advisor messages telling me I should build ships and then not let me know what ships they were advising I should build  :P

BUT - I'm not giving up quite yet. I'll give it another go tonight or tomorrow (going to see Star Trek again tonight!) and hopefully have something positive to report by the weekend.

I should point out I am still reading the manual - though I find that as infuriating as jumping into a game because I often forget just about everything in the manual!

Hi Judge,

You should also try the settings I posted for an easy introductory game in the Age of Shadows.  The Age of Shadows is difficult by default but can be made much easier.

Regards,

- Erik

Thanks Erik - I may just do that. I did like the pre-warp start I have to say...

Lol....yeah, I turned off the "build ship" Notifications along time ago...otherwise You are constantly getting messages that you need to build 27 destroyers and 56 frigates or it's finally time to build five aircraft carriers when you have  3000 credits and reserve.

If you get a message that a new technology has been unlocked, like a new hyperdrive system,  you can go to your existing ship and in the little display window click the icon for retrofit. when you put your mouse over a tooltip should tell you whether a new model is available. if so it's probably a new model with the updated component

Hi JD,

Not sure its going to help you - but it sure did help me....

I saw these videos by Larry Monte:


He is a total micro manager and I now follow his steps in a game of my own.  If you are playing in the prewarp era as a normal empire then remember to set your starting resources to max, it really helps in the beginning. And set research to very expensive, so you have time to get a feel for the different designs.

I'm really a turtler that builds slowly and defend my self, but the new bubble drive has opened up for my race to get stuff they need and kill some of those pirates (which I pay as soon as I encounter them!)

Cheers
Mark

Quote from: Cougar_DK on June 04, 2013, 12:54:51 PM

I'm really a turtler that builds slowly and defend my self, but the new bubble drive has opened up for my race to get stuff they need and kill some of those pirates (which I pay as soon as I encounter them!)

Cheers
Mark

Kill pirates with showers of cold hard cash, you say??  :P

Hehe, first I pay and now I'm going to kill them  ;D

I'm playing as the wekkarus and their race specific beam weapon, the Pulse Wave cannon cuts throug the pirate ships pretty easily  :)

Thanks Cougar - but that guy is hard core.

I guess you recommended it because he does micro manage?

I tried last night - unfortunately I followed everything he did - including difficulty - and I was having a rather awful time.

But I will use his videos to micro manage just so I get a feeling for everything and use Erik's suggestions for an easier game.

He gave some great insights in that video though.

Yes, I must confess that its was AFTER starting to micro manage that the game really clicked for me - not that I enjoyed the game before the Shadows expansion, but the build up is more me.

And I have now my exploration ships on auto, seeking out those pesky pirates and other civilizations.

(I have now tried to play CK2 with all expansions beside the new one, and I just stare at the screen wondering what to do next - so I know the feeling  :))

Definitely watching his video and playing my game whilst watching showed me quite a bit I was unaware of.

I have a question for all you DW nuts...I gave my construction ship a build task for a gas mining station on a big gas giant....the ship was on it's way when I noticed a moon which had much needed resources...and the construction ship was going to have to pass that moon in order to get to the gas giant...so I changed it's build task so it built a mining platform on the moon...

It then turned and headed for home. I didn't want it going all the way back and losing all that time on the distance travelled...so I changed the task back to building a gas mining platform on the gas giant again - and low and behold the ship turned round and headed back to the gas giant and when it got there it started building the gas mining plant.

So the question is - why did it head back for home when I changed it's mission to creating a mining platform instead of a gas mining platform? Is it that different "resources" are required to build those different types of platform? And if that's the case, was it heading home because it was loaded with resources to build a gas mining platform and not for building a normal mining platform?

Hi JD,

I not a hard core DW player but could I think it could have something to do with the resources required to build the two stations.

The default gas mining station needs:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.twins4ever.dk%2Fpictures%2FPC%2FDistant%2520Worlds%2FGasMiningStation_ComponentRequired.png&hash=e53d4195e18f6f581c32fb866bbf09ef8df3e101)

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.twins4ever.dk%2Fpictures%2FPC%2FDistant%2520Worlds%2FGasMiningStation_ResourcesRequired.png&hash=d15dded326c5931567d345e235688d116c15ad19)


And the default mining station needs:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.twins4ever.dk%2Fpictures%2FPC%2FDistant%2520Worlds%2FMiningStation_ComponentRequired.png&hash=0af2d383d784c182ad055d6ad45f53ec5ea99169)

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.twins4ever.dk%2Fpictures%2FPC%2FDistant%2520Worlds%2FMiningStation_ResourcesRequired.png&hash=d80b52324582b8bef9b786e7b29e095b2b3b9c93)

So it could be missing some of those? I'm not sure if we can see what a ship contains....

Ok - thanks Cougar. That kind of makes sense.

Thanks for checking that out for me.

Np JD  ;)

If you double click in the data window for the constructor or freight ship, it will take you straight to the ships and bases screen for the selected item, there is a tab on there for cargo so you can see what the ship has in its hold.

Darkspire

^ Thanks Darkspire. That'll be very useful.

Quote from: Cougar_DK on June 05, 2013, 02:58:55 AM
Hi JD,

I not a hard core DW player but could I think it could have something to do with the resources required to build the two stations.

The default gas mining station needs:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.twins4ever.dk%2Fpictures%2FPC%2FDistant%2520Worlds%2FGasMiningStation_ComponentRequired.png&hash=e53d4195e18f6f581c32fb866bbf09ef8df3e101)

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.twins4ever.dk%2Fpictures%2FPC%2FDistant%2520Worlds%2FGasMiningStation_ResourcesRequired.png&hash=d15dded326c5931567d345e235688d116c15ad19)


And the default mining station needs:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.twins4ever.dk%2Fpictures%2FPC%2FDistant%2520Worlds%2FMiningStation_ComponentRequired.png&hash=0af2d383d784c182ad055d6ad45f53ec5ea99169)

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.twins4ever.dk%2Fpictures%2FPC%2FDistant%2520Worlds%2FMiningStation_ResourcesRequired.png&hash=d80b52324582b8bef9b786e7b29e095b2b3b9c93)

So it could be missing some of those? I'm not sure if we can see what a ship contains....

its amazing what it takes to turn someones eye - having ignored the game forever, this post right here detailing the necessity of ferrying the right things to the right place has piqued my logistic interest - i love me some micromanagement and have never had that 'need for a pad moment' since dropping WitP AE

Quote from: undercovergeek on June 05, 2013, 11:50:25 AM
never had that 'need for a pad moment' since dropping WitP AE

That's a good observance.  The games I tend to enjoy the most require me to write things down.  On DCS I'll jot down GPS coords to adjust my flight path or to come back and blow something up after rearm.  My WitP game with jomni (now a year + ago...I really need to pick that up again if I get time...sorry Jomni) I was jotting things down every day.  Convoy names with destinations and cargo's and why I was doing it, etc.

I do have to say, both WitP and Distant Worlds could use someone creative to redesign their UI's.  A good example would be Eve Online.  I know lots of people call it "spreadsheets in space" but it really does good at presenting enormous amounts of data in a way that you can manipulate and understand.  Especially with the latest updates with all the mouseover info.

v1.9.0.6 is now available:

CRASH FIXES
- fixed various crashes

BUG FIXES
- fixed bug where some pirate games would often 'stall' on some hardware configurations
- fixed bug where pirate relations would sometimes get mixed up
- corrected bug where pirates were offering negative pirate protection amount when normal empire cashflow was negative
- fixed bug where pirates could not manually change tax rate at colonies where they build Criminal Network
- fixed bug where pirate colonizing planet where already have spaceport would cause spaceport to be removed
- fixed bug where a pirate faction raiding a colony where they already have a pirate base or fortress resulted in them battling against their own troops who defend the base
- fixed bug where galactic storms would often get 'lost' when reload game

WEAPONS AND ARMOR
- fixed Ion Pulse weapons to properly disable weapons and engines
- fixed bug where normal components were getting damaged before Armor was completely destroyed

RETROFITTING
- when retrofitting damaged ships or bases, damaged components are now first repaired
- Troop loadouts for ships are now reviewed when the ships is retrofitted to a new design
- pirate construction ships no longer retrofit or repair at controlled (but unowned) colonies
- fleets will no longer go to retrofit when no ships in the fleet have newer designs available

SHIP DESIGN
- AI ship design process no longer creates unbuildable new designs (too large) for a ship subrole when there is an existing buildable design for the same subrole

USER INTERFACE
- added some filters at the top of the Pirate Missions panel in the Empire Navigation Tool at screen left: attack/defense/smuggling mission types, accepted/open missions
- fixed Design Detail screen warnings panel so that text wraps and scrolls
- increased text size in Research screen

GAME SETUP
- altered "Random" proximity setting in Game Startup to distribute starting empires *EVENLY* across the galaxy
- now exclude space creature appearance Shadows events if space creatures are completely disabled in game setup

CHARACTERS
- characters no longer have skill increases until skills and traits are revealed
- fixed bug where Demoralizing and Inspiring character traits were sometimes not working

OTHER
- pirate and diplomatic offers now ensure that offered empire has *excess* money to purchase (not just enough)
- weak pirate factions (no spaceport, weak military, negative cash and cashflow) now join stronger nearby pirate factions
- added new Engagement Stance settings for *manually* controlled ships and fleets (Game Options > Empire Settings). These settings default to 'no change', so that Engagement Stance does not change when a player manually assign missions to ships and fleets. Existing Engagement Stance settings now apply to auto-controlled ships and fleets
- military ships will now 'gang-up' on enemy targets better, assigning many attackers to take on a target

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm...1&mpage=1&key=

Looking good Erik.

This:
- altered "Random" proximity setting in Game Startup to distribute starting empires *EVENLY* across the galaxy

Quote from: ERutins on June 14, 2013, 03:50:09 PM
- now exclude space creature appearance Shadows events if space creatures are completely disabled in game setup

Thanks for adding the Erik.

Has anyone else getting an exploration ships has finished it mission message, when it has not explored an entire system? Seems like mine are stopping after they have only explored half of a system and when I order them to continue they either go to the star or sit there idle.

Edit: Also want to add that I think boarding is the most annoying feature in the game. Its the equivalent of swatting flies. Given the new economic model, I don't think you can feasibly afford to have a group of ships at every mining station to prevent it from being boarded. I have to keep a force of dedicated boarding ships just to take back every little mining station that gets taken over by pirates. It was coll for awhile not its just annoying as ....

I have always found pirates annoying. Which is why I turn them off

Quote from: mikeck on June 14, 2013, 09:55:55 PM
I have always found pirates annoying. Which is why I turn them off

I like having them to give missions to, especially the resource mission. Helps supply a new colony with the needed strategic resources. But I really think the AI is going overboard with the whole boarding thing.

Thanks for the update, Erik.  Will download today! 

Quote from: mikeck on June 14, 2013, 05:06:35 PM
This:
- altered "Random" proximity setting in Game Startup to distribute starting empires *EVENLY* across the galaxy

Probably my favorite change/addition as well.  Yay! 

Kushan,

    Have you looked at arming  your stations with a few light weapons to fend off pirates.

How is everyone getting on with the pirates with 1.9.0.6? Would have to say these have been the best games to date so far in the 2+years I have been playing, I am on normal difficulty, on a 10x10 400 prewarp and it has been complete and utter chaos, constantly under attack and planets having raids, which fortunately I am able to hold, just about, the pirate factions I have not found and destroyed are usually in another empires domain and some of them now are numbering 100+ military ships and are really having a party, now about 25 years into a new game and am only just getting on top of them, the attacks and raids have been so thick and fast I have not even had a chance to stem the growth of other empires.

Darkspire

I'm loving the game now, always liked it before but it is better now.  You can still set the pirates on few, although you will get them in the pre-warp era as part of the Shadow addon.  At least that's how it seems to me.  I am finding them much tougher than they used to be but I enjoy being able to hire them to attack other civs bases, protect my own and smuggle in rare resources that I need....adds a new element to already great game.

I haven't got back into it since my faction ran out of money (creating ships to try and thwart pirates).

I hate the pirates.

Quote from: JudgeDredd on June 19, 2013, 11:32:19 AM
I haven't got back into it since my faction ran out of money (creating ships to try and thwart pirates).

I hate the pirates.

You will have a good reason to hate them playing a prewarp empire with the current update  ;D

Darkspire

Have they made them more of a bastard then? Because if so - that's really not going to help me decide to go back to it. They were already a pain in the arse.

Though I suppose I could turn them off. FWIW I never seemed to get them to gather resources for me anyway. I used to get a message asking if I wanted to, I'd reply yes then a while later I'd get the message saying the agreement was up and I never seemed to pay anything out.

I have been on holiday. I am itching to start up a game of Shadows again after reading the reports about the new patch! YARR!

Quote from: JudgeDredd on June 19, 2013, 11:53:21 AM
Have they made them more of a bastard then? Because if so - that's really not going to help me decide to go back to it. They were already a pain in the arse.

Though I suppose I could turn them off. FWIW I never seemed to get them to gather resources for me anyway. I used to get a message asking if I wanted to, I'd reply yes then a while later I'd get the message saying the agreement was up and I never seemed to pay anything out.

They seem to supply quite well now from a prewarp point of view, as long as they are not to near my colonies I let them exist but its a whole new ball game trying to find the balance to keeping them about for supplies and whittling them down because there numbers tend to grow. As for the pirates, the words, 'stirred up a hornets nest' seems to spring to mind, they are very aggressive but it just makes the game so much more interesting really.

Darkspire

Quote from: Darkspire on June 19, 2013, 11:09:06 AM
How is everyone getting on with the pirates with 1.9.0.6? Would have to say these have been the best games to date so far in the 2+years I have been playing, I am on normal difficulty, on a 10x10 400 prewarp and it has been complete and utter chaos, constantly under attack and planets having raids, which fortunately I am able to hold, just about, the pirate factions I have not found and destroyed are usually in another empires domain and some of them now are numbering 100+ military ships and are really having a party, now about 25 years into a new game and am only just getting on top of them, the attacks and raids have been so thick and fast I have not even had a chance to stem the growth of other empires.

Darkspire

Despite my complaining, I do like the current pirate strength. I have not been having an easy time squashing them. I made the mistake of expanding to quickly, went from 2 colonies to 4-5 before I had the defenses to guard them. Now my 2 main fleets and 2 smaller fleets are to spread out defending and trying to hold my mining stations and defend my new aquisitions, that I don;t have the spare strength to go on the offensive. Sooner or later I'm going to have to bite the bullet and do it, or the pirates are just going to run over me with ships. And that doesn't even take into account my several unhappy neighbors. Some naturally dislike me, but now the Securans, who before I ran into the humans where the strongest military power, are starting to dislike me because the "covet my colonies and resources". Not good since I'm only 6th or 7th in military ranking.

With the new economic system, I'm struggling to afford a bigger fleet without running a huge deficit.

@Darkspire:

Normally I leave ship design to the AI, but I'm doing my first full micromanage game right now and seem to be having trouble coming up with good weapon combinations/ship designs. Do you have any advice? I believe you mentioned you did a fleet redesign in a thread on pirates on the DW forums, and I'm wonder what exactly you did.

Thanks.

Designs. That is a very good question, I gave up on normal empire play as you have to use the design templates and although I have written a master document in word to make it easier they are so much more work than what was the standard in Legends. I now have a master set that I designed for prewarp, all prewarp design and just the basics, load them in at the start of a game and add new tech as and when needed. Weapons of choice for me are:

Escort 2x Phaser Lance + 2x Plasma Torpedoes + 2x Ion Cannon
Frigate 4x Phaser Lance + 2x Plasma Torpedoes + 2x Ion Cannon
Destroyer 6x Phaser Lance + 4x Plasma Torpedoes + 2x Ion Cannon + 1x Assault Pod
Cruiser 8x Phaser Lance + 6x Plasma Torpedoes + 2x Ion Cannon + 2x Assault Pod
Capital 10x Phaser Lance + 8x Plasma Torpedoes + 2x Ion Cannon

Remember that the escort is really a fighter and that the frigate is a just a heavier version, thus they do not have to much added regards weapons. Also to put missiles on and there upgrades until you have the spare power with quantum reactors to use torpedoes and then add the various defense tech like ion defenses, they seem to use ion cannons a fair bit, with the escort and frigate having less on they are fast and can keep hitting till something heavier comes to help, my escort and frigate designs run circles round the pirates, with the ion cannons stalling them they are easy prey in lower numbers. Also do not forget the added bonuses that combat targeting, counter measures and damage control give, I also make extensive use of hyper deny when I have ship size, power and engine speed, I add one unit to each class of ship, make cleaning out a base much easier, the smaller classes can keep up and stop them warping and the heavier ones can fire torpedoes and assault pods. If you can try to set capture settings to capture and disassemble, you will reap the rewards of tech advances which can really help.

Hope that helps a bit.

Darkspire

What do you aim for with shields and armor? What a minimum speed of your ships? The games a lot different when your micromanaging everything, a ton of things I've never really had to think about. Right now I have missile armed escorts, rail gun armed frigates, and beam/capture destroyers. The DD"s armed with maxos blasters are probably my most successful design so far, with my escorts being the second. From reading the forums, my impression is that most people prefer rail guns early game, but I just don't get it. They don't seem that effective to me. My missile boats with standoff setting seem to be a lot more effective then my frigates.

Noticed all your ships are armed the same. Do you phase out escorts and frigates as the game progresses and go with all big ships in the end game? I try to specialize my ships so that way I have a reason to build escorts and frigates. I'd do it for immersion anyway, but I'm always curious what others do?

Will ships armed with assault pods automatically use them if you don't specifically give them the capture order?

Shields and armor.
6x armor on all classes except escort that gets 1x

shields:

Escort 2x
Frigate 2x
Destroyer 2x
Cruiser 4x
Capital 6x

My designs have a general theme of 'one size fits all' approach, cuts down on the need to micro fleets and  means I have less to worry about if I send them off and forget to monitor a battle. The designs are the same from the start, I just upgrade the tech and ship size to accommodate as the game progresses.

Engines and thrusters.

Thrusters I never have at the top of list, engines are way more important and I generally upgrade those as soon as I have enough research power to get them done quickly, getting to the vortex first level is my main aim, get proton as soon as possible and get all the upgrades, you will need the last upgrade to get the multi vector thrusters anyway, I ignore the other engines and upgrade the engines on the designs from proton to vortex. I keep 2x reactors on the escort and frigate, 3x on destroyer, cruiser and capital. As for speed, I add engines on all the class designs till I get a line on the graph that levels out with the power usage see the image, personal choice really but I find doing it that way I can get a good idea of the ship speeds and they become slightly slower as the classes get larger.
Ships fitted with assault pods will capture if they can, you do not need to intervene, just set your capture settings accordingly (see image 2), that is really very useful, see the point about the research bonus of doing so, as the pirates want to steal my tech, seems fair I should return the favor  ;)

Darkspire

EDIT: I have just upgraded the hyper drive which obviously requires more power  so I have added extra engines (image 3), and leveled out the power graph again, hopefully you can see now why I do it that way by comparing the two images.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1125.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl588%2FNecrospire%2FSecret%2520Squiggle%2Fdesignspeed_zps2463dc80.jpg&hash=0f5c5d7b85bc903ffeb80b8f0dc86d7d97e90886)

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1125.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl588%2FNecrospire%2FSecret%2520Squiggle%2Fcapturebang_zpsf4f0cf88.jpg&hash=9de0b6158f51734aa6d3dd8d245109b3c7cfee6c)

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1125.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl588%2FNecrospire%2FSecret%2520Squiggle%2Fdesignspeed2_zps61867d8d.jpg&hash=9b03f750b94a05905143a43da6b91eddfff1bf37)

Started a new game as a standard empire in the Classic Age.  Was immediately bombarded with protection offers from three different pirate factions...for just 48 credits a month (each).  :o 

WTH?  Not that I'm complaining, but were pirates this cheap before the latest update, and I'm only now belatedly noticing it?  And in any case, why does their protection suddenly cost to little?  Is that due to Shadows' tighter economy? 

Quote from: Martok on June 20, 2013, 02:26:12 AM
Started a new game as a standard empire in the Classic Age.  Was immediately bombarded with protection offers from three different pirate factions...for just 48 credits a month (each).  :o 

WTH?  Not that I'm complaining, but were pirates this cheap before the latest update, and I'm only now belatedly noticing it?  And in any case, why does their protection suddenly cost to little?  Is that due to Shadows' tighter economy?

More likely you are getting stronger and they are grasping at straws, I have noticed the stronger they are than the more they will charge, so use it as an indicator of there strength, the smaller more shattered factions will now give up and join the stronger ones in 1.9.0.6

Quote
- weak pirate factions (no spaceport, weak military, negative cash and cashflow) now join stronger nearby pirate factions

Darkspire

One of the recent patch notes mentioned that they lowered Pirate protection requests amounts so that they don't take all your income.  It must count totals from all factions, too.  Obviously it's lowered them some, along with the new economy.

Thanks Nefaro.  That would definitely explain it. 


Thanks Darkspire, but when I say I immediately received those three protection offers, I mean immediately -- as in, 0 seconds into my game.  There'd *literally* been no time for me to become stronger yet.  Ergo, I have to believe the smaller protection payments must be a result of the new update as Nefaro indicated. 

Thanks for the help Darkspire.

Quote from: Darkspire on June 19, 2013, 11:09:06 AM
How is everyone getting on with the pirates with 1.9.0.6? Would have to say these have been the best games to date so far in the 2+years I have been playing,

I just had one of the best games I've played in years on v1905. On hard w/ aggressive AI, pre-warp, all homeworlds the same, some of the AIs with larger starting empires, race victories turned off, pirates one bump up from minimum and R&D slowed to cost 800 and a 1400 star galaxy with all races present. I am retired and had the luxury of playing for four 12 hour days before winning. There was never any credible threat to me, sadly, but it took much longer than usual to win. I guess the next step is, as usual, to keep stacking the deck in the AI's favor. 1906 looks like a step forward, but I can't get enthused about another game yet. I'll play Civ4-Caveman-to-Cosmos and wait on 1907.

Any decent Lets Play videos for Distant Worlds? I've dabbled in the original release (and I think I even purchased Shakari) but I probably got sidetracked with Armada 2526 and then sidetracked again.....

Quote from: spelk on June 20, 2013, 10:47:42 AM
Any decent Lets Play videos for Distant Worlds? I've dabbled in the original release (and I think I even purchased Shakari) but I probably got sidetracked with Armada 2526 and then sidetracked again.....

Can only presume you mean the first installment? There are these:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2953353 (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2953353)

If not then have a look in The War Room:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=793 (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=793)

Darkspire

I've never understood the whole mineral/resource thing.  When I go to ship design, it says I may have shortages.  However, I've never had trouble building anything.  What am I missing.

Quote from: spelk on June 20, 2013, 10:47:42 AM
Any decent Lets Play videos for Distant Worlds? I've dabbled in the original release (and I think I even purchased Shakari) but I probably got sidetracked with Armada 2526 and then sidetracked again.....

Larry Monte and DAS24680 both have really good let's plays of DW. Watch Larry Monte's Legends and Shadows let's plays is what's encouraged me to try a full micromanage game myself.

Larry Monte:
http://www.youtube.com/user/LarryMonte2011 (http://www.youtube.com/user/LarryMonte2011)

DAS24680:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Das24680/featured (http://www.youtube.com/user/Das24680/featured)

Someday I'm going to have to try Armada again. I tried playing it when it was first released but found it flat with no personality.

Quote from: OJsDad on June 20, 2013, 03:54:47 PM
I've never understood the whole mineral/resource thing.  When I go to ship design, it says I may have shortages.  However, I've never had trouble building anything.  What am I missing.

I believe it just takes longer while the shortage is filled. 

Don't you also get some extra via civilian trade with other friendly empires, or something?

Shadows Updated to 1.9.0.7

This build has the following changes from version 1.9.0.6 to 1.9.0.7:

BUG FIXES
- fixed bug where mining stations marked to not auto-retrofit were still retrofitting
- fixed bug where assigning fleet retrofit would sometimes not work (fleet would simply refuel)
- fixed bug where fleets would sometimes not attack space creatures

BUILD ORDER SCREEN
- added civilian ships (freighters, mining ships, passenger ships) to Build Order screen when playing as a pirate faction
- fixed bug where Build Order screen was building new pirate construction ships at controlled (but unowned) colonies

PIRATES
- pirate factions now build more freighters and less military ships
- pirates now more likely to build new mining stations
- slightly reduced pirate income from controlled colonies
- improved willingness of pirate fleets to engage enemies near controlled colonies

MINING AND RESOURCES
- improved distribution of mining station build locations for AI controlled construction ships
- slightly decreased Steel usage in components

COLONY RAIDS AND INVASIONS
- fixed problems with battles at colonies with pirate raiders and standard troops (invasions sometimes being mistaken for raids, etc)
- reduced population losses during colony invasions, especially at smaller colonies

GRAPHICS
- fixed bug where ringed planets and stars would sometimes not be drawn when near edge of screen

OTHER
- improved damage from Ion Weapons against Bombard weapons and Vectoring engines
- captured ships now consider whether hyperdrive is merely disabled (instead of destroyed) before scrapping at capture point (instead of sending to disassemble at yard)
- slightly increased difficulty of 'Destroy Base' intelligence missions

Wow, that was fast.  Nice to see Elliot coming out with these updates so quickly. 

Quote from: Nefaro on June 21, 2013, 05:53:44 PM

Quote from: OJsDad on June 20, 2013, 03:54:47 PM
I've never understood the whole mineral/resource thing.  When I go to ship design, it says I may have shortages.  However, I've never had trouble building anything.  What am I missing.

I believe it just takes longer while the shortage is filled. 

Don't you also get some extra via civilian trade with other friendly empires, or something?

Yep, that's it.  I'm getting messages that point out the shortages, and the request for missions to smuggle resources.

I'm wondering of they teaked some elements of the economy in the new patch. I loaded up my current game, started it in v1.9.0.4. When I last saved I was running a 7k deficit in income, now I'm 26.5k in the black. The reason for the boost was one of my colonies, my first outside my home system, had a revenue of 5-10k (I think) before the patch, and now it has a 22k income.

Edit: Never mind, I missed the message saying I complete the Bakuras Shipyard wonder. My homeworld has a revenue of 364k now.

Since I've not gotten deep into Shadows yet, I'll ask others who have:  How's the AI?  Any better in your opinion? 

Quote from: Martok on June 23, 2013, 08:34:06 PM
Since I've not gotten deep into Shadows yet, I'll ask others who have:  How's the AI?  Any better in your opinion?

For the most part I would say yes.

Ship and fleet AI on the other hand has become almost asininely stupid. I've got ships flying off to join up with their fleets without fueling first, I've got a fleet of ships sitting in planetary orbit/patrolling, while pirates fly in and raid the planet. As much I love DW, I'm really thinking of shelving it until these issues are solved. I should not have to spend 20 minutes just to get a ship to refuel because it refuses to refuel where I tell it too.

With the latest patch, I was getting by clocked cleaned due to lack of funds and getting over run by pirates.  I was bum rushing colonies, and trying to build defense bases at each planet to protect them, but was greatly slowed due to lack of resources.  I even start with three planets colonizable in my home system (playing abundant colonies).  I've started over, with the goal of growing more slowly.  Escort colony ships with escorting fleets that stay on station until defense base and small space port are built. 

I restarted as well. Hoping the weird ship refueling behavior was because I started the game on v1.9.0.2 and kept patching it without restarting. Reduced pirates to "few" and set them to an average starting distance. I'm changing my strategy a bit, and researching colonization at the start instead of improved storage system. Hoping that by the time I have hyperdrive tech researched I'll have colonization as well and can start to expand right away.

Quote from: OJsDad on June 26, 2013, 12:43:43 PM
With the latest patch, I was getting by clocked cleaned due to lack of funds and getting over run by pirates.  I was bum rushing colonies, and trying to build defense bases at each planet to protect them, but was greatly slowed due to lack of resources.  I even start with three planets colonizable in my home system (playing abundant colonies).  I've started over, with the goal of growing more slowly.  Escort colony ships with escorting fleets that stay on station until defense base and small space port are built. 

One thing I learned is to not expand too quickly, and not to build a space port as soon as you colonize/invade a planet. Now I do a pirate smuggling mission as soon as a I colonize a planet, which gives it a good early boost to resources, and also gives your private sector time to build ships to help support the planet.

Yeah, I've just learned the hard way to not build a space port as soon as I colonize a planet, as I'm now badly strapped for resources. 

Quote from: Kushan on June 26, 2013, 02:05:56 PM
Now I do a pirate smuggling mission as soon as a I colonize a planet, which gives it a good early boost to resources, and also gives your private sector time to build ships to help support the planet.

By the by, how *do* I offer smuggling missions to pirate factions?  When I open up the diplomacy screen and talk to one of them, I can't find the option for it. 

Its in the unit selection window in the lower left of the main screen. Its a button.

Aha!  Grazie. 

Quote from: Martok on June 27, 2013, 12:11:02 AM
By the by, how *do* I offer smuggling missions to pirate factions?  When I open up the diplomacy screen and talk to one of them, I can't find the option for it. 

You can have one pirate mission per planet. So each of your colonies can have a smuggling or defense mission on it. Same goes for setting attack mission for enemy stations and colonies. Except in that case you may need a scout to lift the FOW so you can select the target you want attacked.

Thanks for clarifying, Kushan.  It definitely helps to know that. 

Distant Worlds Shadows Updated to 1.9.0.11

QuoteChange History:
This build has the following changes from version 1.9.0.10:

CRASH FIXES
- fixed rare crash when selecting space creatures

BUG FIXES
- fixed pirate attack missions not completing due to message "Mission has been canceled because it has been captured by someone else"
- fixed bug where exploration ships sometimes get stuck at planet
- fixed rare bug where captured ships would sometimes not be scrapped or disassembled when empire policy specified that they should be
- fixed bug where "Most Time At War" race victory condition was sometimes not completing
- fixed bug where Defensive Bases were not being designed beyond current maximum base construction size, even though typically built at a colony (no construction size limits)
- ensured that Defensive Base designs always correctly show in design list in Designs screen when filter is set to "Show Latest Buildable Designs" or "Show Buildable Non-Obsolete Designs"
- no longer incorrectly cancel transport missions when cargo pick-up point is destroyed but freighter has already loaded cargo
- now properly preserve Engagement Stance settings for manually controlled ships when start a new game

CHARACTERS, RACES AND MODDING
- implemented missing Character skills: SmugglingIncome, SmugglingEvasion, BoardingAssault
- fixed bug where Colony Ground Report screen would have blank planetary background if a custom theme did not include a set of PlanetMap images. Now properly fallback to default images if theme does not contain any
- new settings now avilable to add to race files: CharacterRandomAppearanceChancePirateLeader, CharacterRandomAppearanceChanceShipCaptain, CharacterStartingTraitPirateLeader, CharacterStartingTraitShipCaptain
- fixed problem with custom characters where startup characters would sometimes not appear because they were being assigned to pirate factions of the same race
- pirate troops now properly use correct image of their race

GAME BALANCE
- further increased defensive troop levels at non-player homeworlds, especially on higher difficulty levels
- updated Planet Destroyer design to make slightly stronger
- Creative Reengineering race event (Ugnari) now only occurs for research projects less than 60% complete

USER INTERFACE
- added construction resource shortage icon to colony and base lists in Empire Navigation Tool
- changed color of "Local Defense Tactics" message to green in Selection Panel (when fleet with relevant Admiral selected)

OTHER
- improved game performance, especially in late-game with large empires
- now periodically check for and nationalize any unowned cargo at bases/colonies from defeated empires

Darkspire 

Thanks Darkspire!  Going to download now.  :) 



Incidentally, part 2 of SpaceSector's interview with Erik (http://www.spacesector.com/blog/2013/08/distant-worlds-interview-part-2-further-work-and-sequel/) is now up as well. 

Thanks Martok. Was wondering when the second part was being published, very good interview. When I saw the first one with the photo of Erik I thought he looked like Bruce Wayne from the recent Dark Knight Trilogy, now when I see him I keep seeing Batman sitting there  :o

Darkspire

I have DW up to Legends, so is DW Shadows worth it?  I hear the pre-Warp period is very short and I have no interest in playing raid/pirate type race.

I have 2 issues with DW, where any of these fixed?

Loading and Unload Troops
- I always screw up with the left/right mouse click unloading when I want to load, just give me a pop-up menu.

Ship/Fleet Refueling
- there needs to be a refuel ship that can travel with a fleet, resupply ships only works if there is a gas giant with the right type of gas in the system you are going to.

Can't answer your question about the issues you have and whether they were fixed.  But I am very glad I got the Shadows upgrade.  To start out pre-warp and only be able to explore and even colonize only your starting system, build mining stations, etc., was a lot of fun and also a great way to learn the game for someone new to it.  You will fairly early on open up the research for warp drive but you don't have to do it right away if you don't want to.  But once you do and you begin to explore other star systems and colonize other worlds.....well, I found the immersion factor was raised significantly because I started out with one system, built it up then grew from there...it's like being an adult and now having a childhood to remember.

Quote from: SgtRock on August 23, 2013, 09:31:58 AM
I have DW up to Legends, so is DW Shadows worth it?  I hear the pre-Warp period is very short and I have no interest in playing raid/pirate type race.

I have 2 issues with DW, where any of these fixed?

Loading and Unload Troops
- I always screw up with the left/right mouse click unloading when I want to load, just give me a pop-up menu.

Ship/Fleet Refueling
- there needs to be a refuel ship that can travel with a fleet, resupply ships only works if there is a gas giant with the right type of gas in the system you are going to.

Load and unload troops with the menu that is brought up after the right hand button is pressed with the cursor over the colony.

Resupply ships are awkward to use, If I do use them I have a fleet of 4-6 and send them near the system I wish to attack and set them up there, the resupply fleet is sent first with a small fleet to protect them then the main attack fleet is sent to attack the target, by the time the attack fleet has got to the target system the resupply fleet should have had enough of a head start to be deployed and filling up with fuel, once the attack fleet has finished I just send it to the resupply fleet and go from there.

Shadows has added a lot to DW besides pirates and prewarp starts, the private sector has been overhauled, logistics, new character types, the pirates have been turned into factions and can be quite a handful if you so choose, design templates have replaced the optimized designs and quite a few other bits and pieces, really worth getting IMO, have a look at the features over on the Matrix site. Lots of work has been done since it was released on fixing, balancing and adding things, the modders guide has just been published as well. The prewarp start is great as Rayfer has pointed out, I now much prefer the prewarp start to the classic one, very immersive with there being only one planet at the start, pirates attacking from all directions (there is now a slider that was introduced in the last update so you can decrease there strength if there a bit too much :o) You now have four starts to choose from, two empire and two pirate.

Darkspire

<Casts Lesser Thread Resurrection>


By the by, the 1.9.0.13 update has been officially released (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3501474).  I still haven't gotten around to checking it out myself, but I'm looking forward to the changes, especially with regards to freighters and resource mining/distribution. 

Good stuff! Any additional stuff over that .12 public beta?

Quote from: Yskonyn on December 22, 2013, 04:01:23 PM
Good stuff! Any additional stuff over that .12 public beta?

Version 1.9.0.13 – December 19th. 2013
Change History:

CRASH FIXES
• fixed crash when exiting game that uses custom theme with extra races (message says: missing race images)
o reduced chance of thread abort exceptions occurring
o fixed rare crash with freighters
o fixed crash when lock computer (Ctrl-Alt-Del) while playing DW (graphics device lost)

BUG FIXES
• hyperdeny components now working properly for ships (not just bases)
o fixed bug where some failed intercepted intelligence missions were not counting towards victory conditions
o fixed bug where characters were not being properly transferred to troop transports from Troops tab of Colonies screen
o fixed bug where pirate facilities would sometimes not be removed from colonies when pirate faction wiped out
o fixed bug where hyperdeny components not being used on bases defending against attack
o fixed bug where captured and gifted ships would sometimes be attacked when not an enemy
o fixed bug where invading troops disappear when planet bombarded to extinction
o fixed bug where defending troops dropped at rebelling colonies would sometimes join invaders if they were victorious (i.e. rebels or invaders conquered colony)
o fixed bug where troop generals participating in successful clearance attacks against pirate facilities at your colonies would get event history message indicating that the battle was lost, when it was actually won
o fixed bug where displayed cashflow was not including facility maintenance
o fixed bug where freighters would sometimes attempt to dock at mining stations that did not yet have docking bays

OTHER
• improved freighter network for transporting resources
• AI now more willing to build more freighters when necessary
o pirates now more careful about honoring protection arrangements
o improved willingness of passenger ships to perform tourism missions
o Retrofit button in Ships and Bases screen now enabled for bases not at colonies

• RESOURCES AND FREIGHTERS
o improved freighter resource transport network, especially for construction resource shortages
o added option to disable construction resource shortage messages
o the random allotment of startup luxury resources at your colonies now exclude super-luxury resources (Loros Fruit, Zentabia Fluid, Korabbian Spice) (alleviates cashflow swings when these run out)

• TROOPS AND INVASIONS
o fixed problems where troops were sometimes being recruited incorrectly (e.g. clone troops)
o improved garrison levels of troops at colonies, especially when empire is in low- or negative-cashflow situations
o colony populations now defend better against invasions - their defend strength has been doubled

• FLEETS AND SHIPS
o improved fleet response to enemy threats in other systems (i.e. non-automated fleets follow their posture settings to engage enemies in other systems)
o fleets in battle now tolerate lower fuel levels (i.e will wait longer before refuelling)
o ensure that automated fleets load troops when space available
o changed ship behavior so that if already hyperjumping away (for whatever reason) then they will not reassign an Escape mission (i.e. they are already 'escaping')
o further improved boarding and capture so that ships and fighters no longer fire at a target once you already have overwhelming boarding parties onboard the target
o exploration ships now check for uninvestigated ruins or galaxy locations once they have explored the entire galaxy

• DIFFICULTY LEVELS
o Game difficulty has been increased on higher levels in the following ways:
o more defending troops at colonies, especially larger colonies
o buying tech from other empires is more expensive for the player
o selling tech to other empires is less lucrative for the player
o relationship thresholds for buying tech from other empires is higher for player (i.e. other empire has to like you more)
o non-player empires build more exploration and construction ships when they are able
o overall difficulty factors have been increased (i.e. each difficulty setting above normal is now harder)

• RESEARCH AND SHIP DESIGN
o Ship Design editor now warns when Resort Base designs are missing passenger components or are too big to build
o AI-designed spaceports and defensive bases now properly use area weapons when specified in design templates
o lessened chance of critical research success or failure for larger/longer research projects

• GAME PERFORMANCE AND DISPLAY
o improved game performance, especially in late-game with large galaxies
o improved rendering performance, especially when zoomed out to sector- or galaxy-level
o improved appearance of stars in main view

That is a beefy patch! Thanks!