India buys third aircraft carrier amid rivalry with China
Refurbished Soviet-era vessel purchased for £1.4bn as India modernises military to counterbalance Chinese expansion
Conal Urquhart and agencies
theguardian.com, Saturday 16 November 2013 12.42 GMT
The Indian Navy's aircraft carrier Viraat is reaching the end of its service
The Indian Navy's aircraft carrier Viraat is reaching the end of its service. Photograph: Kamal Kishore/Reuters
India has heightened its rivalry with China by taking possession of its third aircraft carrier, a refurbished Soviet-era vessel.
The £1.4bn ($2.3bn) aircraft carrier, handed over on Saturday at a north Russian shipyard, will help India to counterbalance the expansion of the Chinese navy.
The 45,000-tonne ship, built in the final years of the Soviet Union and named the Admiral Gorshkov, will be escorted by warships to India on a two-month voyage from Russia's northern coast. It has been renamed INS Vikramaditya.
A recent upgrade means the carrier, originally designed to carry Yak-38 vertical take-off aircraft, has been re-equipped to carry Mig-29K fighter jets. It can carry up to 30 aircraft and will have a crew of around 2,000.
China and India, the world's most populous countries, co-existed peacefully for centuries but relations became strained after the Communist party won the Chinese civil war in 1948. There were three conflicts between the neighbours in the second half of the 20th century, although since 1987, Sino-Indian trade has grown rapidly. India views China's relations with Pakistan with suspicion and China is concerned over Indian activity in the South China Sea. In March this year, tensions between troops were defused after a three-week standoff along their disputed border.
India signed the deal to buy the carrier in 2004 after a decade of negotiations. Its reconditioning was to be finished in 2009, but the price was increased and delivery postponed until 2012 under a new agreement, according to the Indian navy.
The handover was later delayed by another year.
India's first, British-built, aircraft carrier was bought in the 1960s and was decommissioned in 1997. Another ex-British carrier, the INS Viraat, is reaching the end of its service.
In August, India launched its first home-built carrier. The 37,500-tonne INS Vikrant is expected to undergo extensive trials in 2016 before being inducted into the navy by 2018.
India is the world's largest arms buyer and Russia's biggest arms customer, buying about 60% of its arms needs from there. But it has started to look for new suppliers and aims to build more hardware itself as part of plans to spend $100bn in the next 10 years on modernising its military. It has recently rolled out new military purchase rules to attract local companies into the sector.
The INS Vikramaditya was commissioned into the Indian navy at the Sevmash shipyard in Severodvinsk, on the White Sea, in a ceremony attended by the Russian deputy prime minister, Dmitry Rogozin, and Indian defence minister, AK Antony.
China put its first-ever aircraft carrier, another retooled Soviet-made craft called the Liaoning, into service in 2011 amid tensions with Japan over contested islands and a show of strength in the South China Sea.
In the past year China has been involved in a series of territorial spats with Japan over islets in the East China Sea; and with the Philippines, Vietnam and others over the South China Sea, the location of essential shipping lanes and important natural resources, including oil and gas.
Here there be dragons.
It seems to me a carrier is way more offensive than a missile sub. You could not sustain any invasion with subs but you could retaliate if attacked. That makes me curious what their strategic goal is. Maybe lay the smackdown on Pakistan if pushed? Become the official police force of the Indian Ocean? Something else?
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on November 16, 2013, 09:50:54 PM
It seems to me a carrier is way more offensive than a missile sub. You could not sustain any invasion with subs but you could retaliate if attacked. That makes me curious what their strategic goal is. Maybe lay the smackdown on Pakistan if pushed? Become the official police force of the Indian Ocean? Something else?
Ask Windy. I think he's written a couple of books on the subject.
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on November 16, 2013, 09:50:54 PM
It seems to me a carrier is way more offensive than a missile sub. You could not sustain any invasion with subs but you could retaliate if attacked. That makes me curious what their strategic goal is. Maybe lay the smackdown on Pakistan if pushed? Become the official police force of the Indian Ocean? Something else?
think about all of those TLAMs we sent in ahead of the planes during both Gulf Wars. ;)
Quote from: LongBlade on November 16, 2013, 10:08:24 PM
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on November 16, 2013, 09:50:54 PM
It seems to me a carrier is way more offensive than a missile sub. You could not sustain any invasion with subs but you could retaliate if attacked. That makes me curious what their strategic goal is. Maybe lay the smackdown on Pakistan if pushed? Become the official police force of the Indian Ocean? Something else?
Ask Windy. I think he's written a couple of books on the subject.
Writing is easy, its the publication bit that's hard.....
I'll go with "policing the Indian Ocean" for 1000.00.
Quote from: Windigo on November 16, 2013, 10:55:45 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on November 16, 2013, 10:08:24 PM
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on November 16, 2013, 09:50:54 PM
It seems to me a carrier is way more offensive than a missile sub. You could not sustain any invasion with subs but you could retaliate if attacked. That makes me curious what their strategic goal is. Maybe lay the smackdown on Pakistan if pushed? Become the official police force of the Indian Ocean? Something else?
Ask Windy. I think he's written a couple of books on the subject.
Writing is easy, its the publication bit that's hard.....
Yes, well, expertise is one of those tricky words. To some it means "I looked it up on dictionary.com" while to others it implies slightly more substance.
Don't worry, e-publishing is incredibly easy these days. You'll get there.
Quote from: LongBlade on November 16, 2013, 11:56:19 PM
Quote from: Windigo on November 16, 2013, 10:55:45 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on November 16, 2013, 10:08:24 PM
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on November 16, 2013, 09:50:54 PM
It seems to me a carrier is way more offensive than a missile sub. You could not sustain any invasion with subs but you could retaliate if attacked. That makes me curious what their strategic goal is. Maybe lay the smackdown on Pakistan if pushed? Become the official police force of the Indian Ocean? Something else?
Ask Windy. I think he's written a couple of books on the subject.
Writing is easy, its the publication bit that's hard.....
Yes, well, expertise is one of those tricky words. To some it means "I looked it up on dictionary.com" while to others it implies slightly more substance.
Don't worry, e-publishing is incredibly easy these days. You'll get there.
Boorish is a word that I don't have to look up... I recognize it when I see it being displayed
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthirdplan8fromthesun.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F02%2Firony.jpg&hash=e658025c194bca1495b4e486c10c0ac0c4a1c3ea)
Kids, come on, we're all equally obnoxious here.
Quote from: Gusington on November 16, 2013, 11:04:23 PM
I'll go with "policing the Indian Ocean" for 1000.00.
Correct!
Quote from: Gusington on November 17, 2013, 11:07:19 AM
Kids, come on, we're all equally obnoxious here.
Thank you.
Yes, I'm done for now.
Quote from: Gusington on November 17, 2013, 11:07:19 AM
Kids, come on, we're all equally obnoxious here.
holy moley! I went googling for a pic with the caption "Fine!"
didn't find what I was looking for..... but I got a lot of 'fine' women - so it wasn't a waste of time
Back to the regular schedule. Excellent.
Cool avatar Windy.
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on November 17, 2013, 01:51:37 PM
Cool avatar Windy.
thanks... not sure if I found it while I was oogling Fine! or WTF??? is with this snow already?
How'd you fair down in windy city?
I aint goin out in that shit. Nice and warm here.
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on November 17, 2013, 11:06:35 PM
I aint goin out in that shit. Nice and warm here.
spent the AM shoveling out the street parking, a path to the back alley parking/garbage cans and the backyard... (dogs need places to pee)
helped a few people get out too...
I watched one woman high centre herself pushing snow in her CRV ... had to curb that inner voice that snorted in contempt about 'women drivers'
meanwhile my Philippine neighbours are learning fast, leaving their car wwipers up over night, sanding/salting the walkways, shovelling snow on to their property and not onto the street where it just makes it difficult for them to pull into and out of their spaces
Back to talking about the carrier...I hadn't realized how much the Russians have been modifying the Kiev class carriers for the Indians. They took this:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F5%2F5c%2FCarrier_Baku.jpg%2F457px-Carrier_Baku.jpg&hash=77b9e25784c14bd7ea1830c5993655337eaa1ce8)
An turned it into this:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fc%2Fcf%2FINS_Vikramaditya_during_trials.jpg%2F800px-INS_Vikramaditya_during_trials.jpg&hash=3ee667ad4da234bb603d88908993a025bdd578dc)
The new incarnation can carry up to 24 Mig 29Ks, not an insignificant amount of air power.
wow - some transformation!
Quote from: bob48 on November 18, 2013, 02:11:17 PM
wow - some transformation!
indeed, extreme makeover edition
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on November 18, 2013, 01:37:22 PM
Back to talking about the carrier...I hadn't realized how much the Russians have been modifying the Kiev class carriers for the Indians. They took this:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F5%2F5c%2FCarrier_Baku.jpg%2F457px-Carrier_Baku.jpg&hash=77b9e25784c14bd7ea1830c5993655337eaa1ce8)
An turned it into this:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fc%2Fcf%2FINS_Vikramaditya_during_trials.jpg%2F800px-INS_Vikramaditya_during_trials.jpg&hash=3ee667ad4da234bb603d88908993a025bdd578dc)
The new incarnation can carry up to 24 Mig 29Ks, not an insignificant amount of air power.
Why not have 2 full length runways, one on each side of the island? One for takeoffs, one for landings.
have you ever seen Indians drive?
Seriously, in general, why don't carriers have that configuration?
thats getting a little to big for an easily deployed ship. keep in mind that all US Navy ships have there size limited by both the Suez and Panama canals.
Interesting I did not know that...
haven't you read that bit about how ancient roman roads determined the size of the space shuttle?
http://www.astrodigital.org/space/stshorse.html (http://www.astrodigital.org/space/stshorse.html)
the technology is there to make a carrier the size of a supertanker but why? its to big, it couldnt get anywhere quicky and you would have to many eggs in one basket.
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on November 18, 2013, 01:37:22 PM
Back to talking about the carrier...I hadn't realized how much the Russians have been modifying the Kiev class carriers for the Indians. They took this:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F5%2F5c%2FCarrier_Baku.jpg%2F457px-Carrier_Baku.jpg&hash=77b9e25784c14bd7ea1830c5993655337eaa1ce8)
An turned it into this:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fc%2Fcf%2FINS_Vikramaditya_during_trials.jpg%2F800px-INS_Vikramaditya_during_trials.jpg&hash=3ee667ad4da234bb603d88908993a025bdd578dc)
The new incarnation can carry up to 24 Mig 29Ks, not an insignificant amount of air power.
That's amazing. Just looking at it, you could have easily convinced me it was refurbed Kuznetsov-class.
Quote from: Gusington on November 18, 2013, 03:33:00 PM
Interesting I did not know that...
Star is not just a pretty tart.
Nice carrier!
I sense possibly more military simulation & training in Asia (save for China). I'm wondering where me and my colleagues will be sent next! There was a 2 year project in Singapore a few years back, and some shorter ones in India.
Thanks Biggs. :)
so heres the layout difference:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bharat-rakshak.com%2FNAVY%2FImages%2FGorshkov6.jpg&hash=e552fe0a2c977e83af12ced0f31edda0e1a2fb58)
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on November 18, 2013, 03:11:22 PM
Why not have 2 full length runways, one on each side of the island? One for takeoffs, one for landings.
Probably too wide. Also, the angled landing is designed to keep landing planes from plowing into the ones parked and ready for takeoff since arrestor cables and even the 'net' have been known to fail. If the decks run parallel then only a few degrees' deviation during landing means that everything on the front half of the decks could get wiped out. With the angled approach the more likely scenario during a flameout or crippled landing would be the aircraft sliding off the end of the angle deck into the briny while the crew punches out in their zero-zero ejection seats.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 18, 2013, 06:38:49 PM
Thanks Biggs. :)
so heres the layout difference:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bharat-rakshak.com%2FNAVY%2FImages%2FGorshkov6.jpg&hash=e552fe0a2c977e83af12ced0f31edda0e1a2fb58)
Star, what's the difference betweent the second two diagrams?
Most of the helos are on a different part of the deck?
If the carrier is at war anything sitting around on the front top is fodder. A simple strafe would do serious damage to the ship. Better to have all maintenance done under the deck then a lift at the back puts them to launch position, a lift at the front lowers planes to the hangers. I'm thinking a conveyor belt type system. If you have to get all your planes up fast you could launch staggered off both.
We shall see what they do when the panama canal gets to post panamax size.
QuoteStar, what's the difference betweent the second two diagrams?
2 different parking layouts. the first lets you use just the angled deck for flight ops.
the 2nd lets you use both the angled section and the ski ramp.
QuoteIf the carrier is at war anything sitting around on the front top is fodder.
no carrier can hold all of its planes in the hanger, not even a Nimitz.
Then I will sell you the new improved design. ;)
then it wont fit through the Panama Canal. ;)
I find it funny that the former communist country sells used aircraft carriers whilst the so called capitalist country gives someone a penny to take one off their hands. ???
not the whole story.
there's obligations to be met???
So with this purchase, it seems the Indians have three carriers, each of which is more or less comparable to China's Liaoning. Any thoughts on whether the Chinese are building up their navy more in response to India than to the US?
On a side note, from reading Wikipedia it sounds like the purchase process for this latest carrier between India and Russia had some moments where the Russians assumed the role of Darth Vader: "I have altered the deal, pray I do not alter it further."
I think Chinas naval program is geared more as a response to the navies of the US, India, Japan, Australia and all of the other island countries in the region.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 20, 2013, 09:31:26 AM
I think Chinas naval program is geared more as a response to the navies of the US, India, Japan, Australia and all of the other island countries in the region.
That's the problem for China. They're in a pissing contest with pretty much the entire Pacific Rim.
and they cant win. ;D
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 20, 2013, 11:58:57 AM
and they cant win. ;D
He's baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!
welcome back... hows the dental work/alcohol induced hangover?
Ive been posting all morning.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 20, 2013, 12:21:15 PM
Ive been posting all morning.
haven't seen you post in the Geeksgonewild thread yet....
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on November 18, 2013, 01:37:22 PM
Back to talking about the carrier...I hadn't realized how much the Russians have been modifying the Kiev class carriers for the Indians. They took this:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F5%2F5c%2FCarrier_Baku.jpg%2F457px-Carrier_Baku.jpg&hash=77b9e25784c14bd7ea1830c5993655337eaa1ce8)
An turned it into this:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fc%2Fcf%2FINS_Vikramaditya_during_trials.jpg%2F800px-INS_Vikramaditya_during_trials.jpg&hash=3ee667ad4da234bb603d88908993a025bdd578dc)
The new incarnation can carry up to 24 Mig 29Ks, not an insignificant amount of air power.
Thanks for this post AB.
But it begs the question: if the Indians acquired this ship to help counter the Chinese, where (exactly) are they expecting to face-off against the Chinese? Certainly not over their actual land locked mountainous border with China. Do the Indians have a claim over the Spratley's too??!!
Perhaps the Andaman and Nicobar Islands... but there is an Airbus and 737 accessible airport there. Interesting.
Quote from: Centurion40 on November 20, 2013, 03:35:28 PM
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on November 18, 2013, 01:37:22 PM
Back to talking about the carrier...I hadn't realized how much the Russians have been modifying the Kiev class carriers for the Indians. They took this:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F5%2F5c%2FCarrier_Baku.jpg%2F457px-Carrier_Baku.jpg&hash=77b9e25784c14bd7ea1830c5993655337eaa1ce8)
An turned it into this:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fc%2Fcf%2FINS_Vikramaditya_during_trials.jpg%2F800px-INS_Vikramaditya_during_trials.jpg&hash=3ee667ad4da234bb603d88908993a025bdd578dc)
The new incarnation can carry up to 24 Mig 29Ks, not an insignificant amount of air power.
Thanks for this post AB.
But it begs the question: if the Indians acquired this ship to help counter the Chinese, where (exactly) are they expecting to face-off against the Chinese? Certainly not over their actual land locked mountainous border with China. Do the Indians have a claim over the Spratley's too??!!
Perhaps the Andaman and Nicobar Islands... but there is an Airbus and 737 accessible airport there. Interesting.
In other words it's about the ability to block off Pakistan from the sea.
India doesn't have a claim to the Spratly's but they are assisting Vietnam with oil exploration in the region, which displeases China.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/9726916/China-warns-India-on-oil-exploration.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/9726916/China-warns-India-on-oil-exploration.html)
And keep in mind that China's SLOCs to Mid-East oil run through the Indian Ocean.
Quote from: mirth on November 20, 2013, 04:22:49 PM
And keep in mind that China's SLOCs to Mid-East oil run through the Indian Ocean.
That's what I was thinking. Also, I believe that China imports a lot of raw materials from Africa. And, India could cut off trade with Europe.
I find it interesting that with all this carrier building, very few countries can pull off catapult launch systems. Other than us I know the French use them, but is there anyone else doing catapult launches from their carriers these days? Maybe Brazil?
Now that I've thought about it a little more, I have to wonder if a carrier is the best choice for the Indian's to use if they wish to interdict oil going to China. I would think that subs and long range bombers would be a better investment. India already has three Mainstays (AWACS). Purchase a few more of those and some Backfires, or whatever the replacement is for the Backfire, and they could do a lot of damage to shipping going across northern and central Indian Ocean.
Well the carriers would also provide protection for their own assets and allow for some force projection outside the IO. You make good points though .
Quote from: mirth on November 20, 2013, 06:45:54 PM
Well the carriers would also provide protection for their own assets and allow for some force projection outside the IO. You make good points though .
nothing says payday to hookers like a carrier arriving at port though
Quote from: Windigo on November 20, 2013, 07:07:42 PM
Quote from: mirth on November 20, 2013, 06:45:54 PM
Well the carriers would also provide protection for their own assets and allow for some force projection outside the IO. You make good points though .
nothing says payday to hookers like a carrier arriving at port though
Insightful ;-)
Quote from: mirth on November 20, 2013, 07:26:46 PM
Quote from: Windigo on November 20, 2013, 07:07:42 PM
Quote from: mirth on November 20, 2013, 06:45:54 PM
Well the carriers would also provide protection for their own assets and allow for some force projection outside the IO. You make good points though .
nothing says payday to hookers like a carrier arriving at port though
Insightful ;-)
closer to my observations would be how Brits exercising at CFB Suffield was positively correlated to the number of skanky women in Medicine Hat
Quote from: OJsDad on November 20, 2013, 04:51:25 PM
Quote from: mirth on November 20, 2013, 04:22:49 PM
And keep in mind that China's SLOCs to Mid-East oil run through the Indian Ocean.
That's what I was thinking. Also, I believe that China imports a lot of raw materials from Africa. And, India could cut off trade with Europe.
Chinese shipping to the EU goes through Panama.
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on November 20, 2013, 08:28:45 PM
Quote from: OJsDad on November 20, 2013, 04:51:25 PM
Quote from: mirth on November 20, 2013, 04:22:49 PM
And keep in mind that China's SLOCs to Mid-East oil run through the Indian Ocean.
That's what I was thinking. Also, I believe that China imports a lot of raw materials from Africa. And, India could cut off trade with Europe.
Chinese shipping to the EU goes through Panama.
Take the long way home?
With global warming, part of the year they can use the Northwest Passage above Russia.
Quote from: besilarius on November 20, 2013, 10:17:03 PM
With global warming, part of the year they can use the Northwest Passage above Russia.
just stay the hell away from Russia's drilling platforms
I just had a great area denial idea! in contested waters with oil platforms we use Canadian subs for patrol. that way the Ruskis wont know where or when one will catch fire and blow up an oil rig.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 20, 2013, 10:52:32 PM
I just had a great area denial idea! in contested waters with oil platforms we use Canadian subs for patrol. that way the Ruskis wont know where or when one will catch fire and blow up an oil rig.
or hit an underwater obstacle
Quote from: OJsDad on November 20, 2013, 06:17:13 PM
Now that I've thought about it a little more, I have to wonder if a carrier is the best choice for the Indian's to use if they wish to interdict oil going to China. I would think that subs and long range bombers would be a better investment. India already has three Mainstays (AWACS). Purchase a few more of those and some Backfires, or whatever the replacement is for the Backfire, and they could do a lot of damage to shipping going across northern and central Indian Ocean.
See, this is exactly what I am thinking. Apart from being a status symbol, why would India need such a carrier? It is not a defensive weapon. Both Pakistan and the Chinese mainland are well withing the reach of existing Indian Air Force bases. Unless they are looking to project force far from the Indian mainland, or existing airfields on territorial islands, there is not reason for Indian to possess such a ship.
Are they in the early stages of building into a regional or world superpower? Do they fantasize of an era of Pax Indiana?
India has had carriers for a long time. following the US model, theyre central to any sea control strategy and the Indian Ocean is a rather large body of water.
I imagine if, during the course of a conflict, India did interfere with China's SLOCs through the Indian Ocean, China would be forced to send their own navy to try to protect their interests. A robust carrier force would be pretty useful in that situation.
I remember in one of Tom Clancy's non-fiction titles, Carrier I think, a US Carrier group sinks an Indian carrier in a hypothetical conflict in one of the mini-novels at the end of the book.
India is a weird nation of contradictions (sounds familiar eh?). It has millions of desparately poor, yet its high tech industry is growing very fast.
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on November 21, 2013, 11:24:12 AM
I imagine if, during the course of a conflict, India did interfere with China's SLOCs through the Indian Ocean, China would be forced to send their own navy to try to protect their interests. A robust carrier force would be pretty useful in that situation.
I think that if India and China are in a shooting war then Chinas navy is going to stretched pretty thin.
I think that if India and China get in a shooting war the navies are going to be pretty irrelevant
Quote from: bayonetbrant on November 21, 2013, 12:16:59 PM
I think that if India and China get in a shooting war the navies are going to be pretty irrelevant
Not if India can use their's to strangle China's economy, especially in a limited war with limited goals. Weren't they just in some sort of face-off over China's claims in Kashmir or something?
AR... always
I do wonder if the carrier's intended purpose would be to provide improved patrolling of the Indian Ocean in the event of hostilities with China? Using it as a force projection tool in the face of Chinese land-based airpower seems... poorly thought out.
And I can't imagine that India really wants to shoulder the burden of regional policeman. Way too many problems at home to worry about the tiresome responsibilities associated with superpower status, especially so long as the US remains willing to foot that bill.
Quote from: FarAway Sooner on November 28, 2013, 01:39:13 PM
And I can't imagine that India really wants to shoulder the burden of regional policeman. Way too many problems at home to worry about the tiresome responsibilities associated with superpower status, especially so long as the US remains willing to foot that bill.
I think our willingness and ability to do that in the future is a real concern of India and others in the region.
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/9df45f259a32
Article on India's carrier force with some nice pictures of their formation.
Quote from: mirth on November 28, 2013, 01:48:58 PM
Quote from: FarAway Sooner on November 28, 2013, 01:39:13 PM
And I can't imagine that India really wants to shoulder the burden of regional policeman. Way too many problems at home to worry about the tiresome responsibilities associated with superpower status, especially so long as the US remains willing to foot that bill.
I think our willingness and ability to do that in the future is a real concern of India and others in the region.
I don't think anybody *wants* to be the world's policeman. But for countries that are wealthy enough have have economic interests on a regional or global scale, the role is thrust upon them.
well its not like its a new or unknown cost for the Indian Navy. Ive just always questioned the sanity of not only buying an ex-Soviet carrier but getting ripped off for years by the shipyard doing the renovations.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on January 06, 2014, 08:56:30 PM
but getting ripped off for years by the shipyard doing the renovations.
welcome to Canukistan!!!