Bioshock Infinite

[son_of_montfort]

A not-so-subtle message from the devs.

Infinite looks steampunky enough to be interesting, but stepping into the political realm as noted by SoM isn't exactly a smart marketing move IMHO. I'm interested in gaming, not discussing 9th grade civic history. This is likely to be a bargain bin purchase - if that.

You are doing this game a HUGE disservice by assuming the Founders are there as some Leftist attack on the *modern* Right. The politics it criticizes are largely from the time period of the game - the late-1800s and early-1900s. The "cult of the Founding Fathers" is interesting, and - IMHO - is not an indictment about the Founders and more the skewed perspective on the Founders of the late-1800s US Jingoist Imperialist. The "rebels" have a fascination with Lincoln (and the "bad-guys" despise Lincoln). I actually see it as a commentary on post-reconstruction American divisions of class, race, ethnicity, and religion. Don't assume that the "anti-Founder" faction is any better behaved or presented- they represent the anarchist movements of the same era.

There are much more disturbing things in the game than the treatment of the Founders (which is really not representative of the actual Founders). One worry I have is that the dialog brought up by the game will have some people saying things that are not particularly pleasant. The treatment of race runs the risk of pushing people into confronting the social remnants of segregation mentality, social Darwinism, and racial stereotypes (that still exist). Further, the treatment of religion, which is much more clearly Christianity than a Founder's cult, will certainly have some people miffed. I'm not saying that Christianity is viewed as the cause of all the bad stuff, but overzealous Christianity is not made to look particularly pleasant. The ending may have some people very ruffled.

If anything, the game confronts the player with actual negative mindsets, events, propaganda, beliefs, and actions that are part of America's history (the Battle of Bull Run and the Boxer Rebellion factor largely in the narrative). Many of these still haunt the present. As a historian, I think that people should know and think about our country's history in a critical way - you can't whitewash the past and expect to get a good future. But I do worry if this is the proper medium or the proper gravity with which to do so.

That all being said, I think Bioshock Infinite is one of my top favorite games of all time. More so than Bioshock. But it illicited both a visceral and emotional response from me for a variety of reasons intellectual and personal, many of which I would rather not discuss.

[Gusington]

I give the developer respect for taking on mature themes. Doing so, even if we don't agree with some of the themes presented, will bring games up from the level of kiddie toys closer to the level of respect held for great movies.

[Arctic Blast]

I give the developer respect for taking on mature themes. Doing so, even if we don't agree with some of the themes presented, will bring games up from the level of kiddie toys closer to the level of respect held for great movies.

Exactly how I feel. Enough of this nonsense that some things are 'beyond games'.

[W8taminute]

I've just started playing today for about 2 hours.  My initial impressions are that there doesn't seem to be anything controversial...yet.  As I said I still haven't met up with the girl so I've basically gone through the introductory portions of the story.  Great game so far both visually and gameplay wise.  I will say this though, the baseball scene wasn't too horrifying but I chose an option that did not end up particularly bloody.  Those that have played through probably know what I'm talking about but I don't want to give any more detail out lest I spoil it for others.

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

I don't think it matters which option you choose with the baseball, the outcome will be the same.  There isn't a lot of choice in Infinite. That's one thing I missed from the earlier System Shock and Bioshock games.    SoM said earlier that the devs probably didn't want to go down the road of allowing you to play as a racist and I can see that, but it does seem a bit at odds with their earlier games.  Hell, Bioshock let you decide if you wanted to murder little girls just to feast on the delicious goo inside.


*****SPOILER QUESTION******

What there any difference in the game based on which locket you gave to Elizabeth?  I didn't see it referenced again in the game at all.  I chose the bird.  Anyone know if chosing the cage altered the game in any way?

[son_of_montfort]

We need spoiler tags...


*Slight Spoiler Alert* (Highlight the text between the spoiler tags to "see" it)

SDR, given how this all "turns out" I think the lack of choice is intentional. Constants and variables - but the variables are often minute in their impact. I don't think the bird/cage dichotomy has any purpose other than to highlight the constants and variables aspect. Notice, in the final scene before the credits, the brooch is gone...

*Spoiler Off*

Another thing, people need to make sure they watch the credits.

I give the developer respect for taking on mature themes. Doing so, even if we don't agree with some of the themes presented, will bring games up from the level of kiddie toys closer to the level of respect held for great movies.

Exactly how I feel. Enough of this nonsense that some things are 'beyond games'.

Yes, I think this is true. But there are scenes that don't pull any punches in their delivery. In particular the "Hall of Heroes." That is pretty wild.

I will say one thing, BS:I is one of the few games I want to go back and play a second time right after I beat it. This is what I call the System Shock 2 effect (the only story-game I have beaten like 4 times). That says something.

[W8taminute]

There is only one flaw with this otherwise great game; where is the manual save option?

[LongBlade]

A not-so-subtle message from the devs.

Infinite looks steampunky enough to be interesting, but stepping into the political realm as noted by SoM isn't exactly a smart marketing move IMHO. I'm interested in gaming, not discussing 9th grade civic history. This is likely to be a bargain bin purchase - if that.

You are doing this game a HUGE disservice by assuming the Founders are there as some Leftist attack on the *modern* Right. The politics it criticizes are largely from the time period of the game - the late-1800s and early-1900s. The "cult of the Founding Fathers" is interesting, and - IMHO - is not an indictment about the Founders and more the skewed perspective on the Founders of the late-1800s US Jingoist Imperialist. The "rebels" have a fascination with Lincoln (and the "bad-guys" despise Lincoln). I actually see it as a commentary on post-reconstruction American divisions of class, race, ethnicity, and religion. Don't assume that the "anti-Founder" faction is any better behaved or presented- they represent the anarchist movements of the same era.

There are much more disturbing things in the game than the treatment of the Founders (which is really not representative of the actual Founders). One worry I have is that the dialog brought up by the game will have some people saying things that are not particularly pleasant. The treatment of race runs the risk of pushing people into confronting the social remnants of segregation mentality, social Darwinism, and racial stereotypes (that still exist). Further, the treatment of religion, which is much more clearly Christianity than a Founder's cult, will certainly have some people miffed. I'm not saying that Christianity is viewed as the cause of all the bad stuff, but overzealous Christianity is not made to look particularly pleasant. The ending may have some people very ruffled.

If anything, the game confronts the player with actual negative mindsets, events, propaganda, beliefs, and actions that are part of America's history (the Battle of Bull Run and the Boxer Rebellion factor largely in the narrative). Many of these still haunt the present. As a historian, I think that people should know and think about our country's history in a critical way - you can't whitewash the past and expect to get a good future. But I do worry if this is the proper medium or the proper gravity with which to do so.

That all being said, I think Bioshock Infinite is one of my top favorite games of all time. More so than Bioshock. But it illicited both a visceral and emotional response from me for a variety of reasons intellectual and personal, many of which I would rather not discuss.

It sounds to me like this game needs to be reviewed here...

[son_of_montfort]

Ok, you twisted my arm!  ;)

[Arctic Blast]

Ok, you twisted my arm!  ;)

Time for an informal poll!  Which is easier to do :

1. Convince SoM to review a game he really likes

2. Convince Gus to buy a game

[Sir Slash]

Or take candy from a baby?

[Arctic Blast]

Or take candy from a baby?

I thought about adding that as a third option, but the baby could probably be expected to put up more of a fight than either SoM or Gus.

[Gusington]

Still haven't bought this, btw

[LongBlade]

Ok, you twisted my arm!  ;)

Time for an informal poll!  Which is easier to do :

1. Convince SoM to review a game he really likes

2. Convince Gus to buy a game

SoM's time is not really his own these days. He's actually quite busy. We got lucky on this one :)

[Arctic Blast]

Still haven't bought this, btw

Uh huh. And how many other games have you purchased in the time since this came out (2 weeks)?  :P