Matrix Games, Whatever Are You Thinking?

[JudgeDredd]

Big post - I know.

Actually - I'm not that into this. I didn't like the tone of Iain's or Erics post tbh - and that got my back up. And I am totally fed up with hearing about the niche market. To be fair, I expect they get fed up talking about it!

At the end of the day - their games are reasonably priced - for the most part. They're older titles? Not so.

Somone here mentioned if ACW2 comes out, reduce the price of ACW. That's kind of cool - and I'm pretty sure they do that - but not to the extent I think they should. There are still alot of people will hold off WitP because of the price. WitP - WHICH has a sequel out - is priced at £48.99 which turns into - including tax - turns into £64.74. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

They may have an argument about playing hours and cost. But still...£65 for a product which has a sequel out - a better game with more detail and support - for £85? Makes no sense - unless...perhaps they look at it another way??

Perhaps they keep them high so that people won't buy that unsupported older game - but instead buy the newer one - which is only a little bit more expensive? Keep old product A at a price which is close to new product B and most people would likely opt for new product B...right?

Who in their right mind is going to buy WitP at £65 when WitP:AE sits there for £20 more? Not many...but knock WitP down to £40, or £30 and watch what happens to sales of AE.

So that's why I'm rather cheesed off with the "trust us" and "we're the good guys" and "it's a niche market" statements floating. I'm sorry. I don't trust them.

I know and suspect what they are doing is good for their business and their profits (and I'm not a commie - I have no issue with a private company making money) - but it's not in keeping with "trust us". Especially when they are telling people they are closing down all other avenues to get a game so you have to buy it at their inflated price (and I would not argue against those that the price they are asking is fair for PoN).

[JudgeDredd]

^ oh - and to back that up I recall Conquest of the Aegean being at a price for some time....and guess what - when Command Ops was coming to release? The price of CotA went up...not down. Now it was a month or two that CotA had gone up - but it DID go up prior to the release of BftB...and it's right there I suspected what they did was make CotA less appealing so people would buy BftB - or make BftB not look quite so inflated in price.

Conquest of the Aegean is a fantastic game by the way and anyone who doesn't have it and is a wargamer should get it.

Matrix are not a bad company. Not at all and I'll always buy games from them. But I don't think they do alot for enticing new members to the market. I don't think they do enough to promote wargaming. And the statements that came out in the thread over there...well, they just left a bad taste in my mouth tbh. I don't need to be spoon fed.

There's also a very good post over there by Johan from Paradox - which makes total sense (partly because some of it relates to what I am talking about) ;P

[Tamas]

thread title should be "Matrix Games, what is your strategy?"

[Nefaro]

One of the reasons I suspect PoN didn't sell the volumes it did wasn't because of price - but because - as always - Paradox threw something out the door that wasn't ready for market.

Yes, indeed.  It's typical Paradox to kick something out the door early, at a bargain price, and drop support for it fairly quickly.  Not all of them but PON was surely a good example.  Zulu's mention of the cheap pricepoint as an example of failure to entice more sales isn't the reason that it floundered at release.  It was how buggy & unfinished the game was.  It doesn't matter how cheap you price something, if everyone finds out from the pre-orderers that the game is in an unfinished state then they will not buy it.  It had little to do with the price, other than those who blindly pre-ordered it.

Fortunately PON is still getting some work, and Phil has also mentioned the possibility of adding the use of an extra CPU core for turn calculations in the engine, in the future.  The real star of the AGE games has been Alea Jacta Est & Birth Of Rome and fortunately the guys at AGEOD seem to have kept Matrix from astronomically pricing them, although I hear that they raised it after getting publishing rights.   I am a bit wary of future releases steadily increasing, however. :-\

[Barthheart]

Rock Papre Shotgun gets in on the action.....

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/04/19/the-flare-path-indecent-proposal/#more-150192

[Arctic Blast]

Actually - I'm not that into this. I didn't like the tone of Iain's or Erics post tbh - and that got my back up. And I am totally fed up with hearing about the niche market. To be fair, I expect they get fed up talking about it!

Ian's posts have been absolutely bizarre. He starts talking about Paradox's pricing of AGEOD games as something that should be illegal. Then he seems surprised that PoN was available in so many places. Finally, in his exchange with Johan, it's like he doesn't know that Paradox have released games since Magicka. Really, really odd.

And here's another bit that I find baffling about Pride of Nations : they bring in the game as a 'priority', and yet the DLC content won't be available until sometime in MAY? What in the world is that about? Of course, once you remove every single alternative purchase location I suppose that it doesn't matter.  ::)

Rock Papre Shotgun gets in on the action.....

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/04/19/the-flare-path-indecent-proposal/#more-150192

Yeah, I pretty much agree with every single word that he said.

[spelk]

Slightly Off Topic, but just to put the answer where the question was...

What?  Let me get this straight - there is a Linux version available if you buy from the devs or Steam, but not if you buy from Matrix?

You'll have to not hold me to this, because I haven't tried the Linux version of Steam yet, but from what I gather, your Steam key for Unity of Command will transfer over to the Linux Steam client.

Ok, I can CONFIRM that the Linux version of Steam can install Unity of Command, using the Key code you got for the PC version of Steam. And it works for the DLC too. So, effectively, you can just load up Steam on a Linux box, and register UoC to play there too.

Some games come across with the Steam login account, but I had to stick the Key code in for Unity of Command.

[LongBlade]

As I read over the RPS article (really good, though he missed the point that Close Combat: Modern Tactics is essential the game sold to the USMC) I look back at my close discussions from time to time with David Heath.

David used to *never* discount games except for one annual holiday sale.

Slitherine, by contrast, seems to slightly discount them from time to time. It's like they want to not discount them, but can't bring themselves to truly mark things down. It's the worst of both worlds.

[Arctic Blast]

As I read over the RPS article (really good, though he missed the point that Close Combat: Modern Tactics is essential the game sold to the USMC) I look back at my close discussions from time to time with David Heath.

David used to *never* discount games except for one annual holiday sale.

Slitherine, by contrast, seems to slightly discount them from time to time. It's like they want to not discount them, but can't bring themselves to truly mark things down. It's the worst of both worlds.

It really seems to me like they're making this up as they go without a long term plan. One game they attempt to get wider distribution for while pulling other games off of other stores. No demos...except for when a game has one...but then others don't. Rush to bring in the game, but we won't bother with DLC importation for another month. It's all so weirdly random.

[LongBlade]

It really seems to me like they're making this up as they go without a long term plan. One game they attempt to get wider distribution for while pulling other games off of other stores. No demos...except for when a game has one...but then others don't. Rush to bring in the game, but we won't bother with DLC importation for another month. It's all so weirdly random.

It probably is random. Unless they've added someone with marketing expertise, they lack that. They have a good sales guy, good development and project managers, and a good accountant/finance guy. Marketing probably seems random because it probably is.

[phredd1]

My two cents.......................................................

I've followed this thread, and I have to side with those not liking Matrix's pricing policies.

Having said that, they were once my favored gaming company because they were putting out games that I liked. Despite the cost, I indulged myself by buying many of their revamped versions of older games like TOAW_3. JT's Campaign Series, and Combat Command and have received much pleasure from them.

Now that they've acquired so many other developers, I no longer feel as comfortable with buying on a whim, as I don't know enough about many of these developers to risk the higher prices. Good demos could alleviate part of my reluctance, especially for the higher priced choices.

I admit part of my recent slowdown in game purchases from Matrix is because I feel that with their expansions of late, they have become the 800 lb. gorilla  and are beginning to act like it. Higher pricing and no longer permitting other merchants to carry their product and price it as they see fit, is just step one, folks. What comes next, invasive DRM and/or having to be online to play the games?

Now, I am clearly paranoid, the proof being that I posted a message that I was uncomfortable with the Slitherine-Matrix merger, in the thread that appeared on the subject on the old Wargamer forum. I had no specifics in my post, I just felt in my gut that it wasn't a good thing.

It appears the old saying, "Just 'cause you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.", may not be so far fetched after all.

We're too eclectic a group to ever be able to agree on something like a boycott of Matrix, so my personal action is merely to get around to playing all the games I've bought, but never really explored. It has been successful to a greater degree than I thought possible, my urge to buy the latest games has been greatly blunted.

[Zulu1966]

I admit part of my recent slowdown in game purchases from Matrix is because I feel that with their expansions of late, they have become the 800 lb. gorilla  and are beginning to act like it. Higher pricing and no longer permitting other merchants to carry their product and price it as they see fit, is just step one, folks. What comes next, invasive DRM and/or having to be online to play the games?

We're too eclectic a group to ever be able to agree on something like a boycott of Matrix, so my personal action is merely to get around to playing all the games I've bought, but never really explored. It has been successful to a greater degree than I thought possible, my urge to buy the latest games has been greatly blunted.

I suppose this is the bit of this argument I just dont get. Seems most of the people taking issue with Matrix are the very ones who jump all over them if they dont act like a proper business with regard to support / quality etc but seem the first to take issue when they actually act like a proper business . You see "No longer permitting other merchants to carry product and price it as they deem fit" is just sound business practice. Indeed - why would you buy the rights to something and then allow other people to sell it at a lower price. ?

The other half of the argument simply seems to be a lot of people on the matrix boards who dont run a computer strategy game company telling matrix they know best how to run a computer strategy game company. Thats without any numbers, sales data and yet the entire thrust of their argument is simply based on what they believe would happen rather than matrix who know what has happened.

there also seems to be a third camp who argue that pricing brings in new wargamers - again without evidence - but the point is maybe matrix as a business arent that interested in that. If they are running a business model that works why experiment with it based on the heresay of others and for reasons that lie outside of them making more money. Maybe Mcneil isnt that interested in what happens to wargaming as a whole - just what happens to his company - why is it a problem if thats the case ?

I suppose what I dont see is what peoples issue is. So if matrix dont want to reduce the price of their older games and the reason for that is primarily because of the data they have they dont see that as beneficial to them - and if people accept they are a business then what exactly is it that people are complaining about - beyond the fact they simply want something for less money. I'd like a ferrari - but I guess they arent going to reduce the price.

Maybe what wargaming needs is to be run as a business and not some garage industry yet whilst half the argument seems to be  about wargaming getting bigger the other half seems to be about people complaining matrix is acting like a big comapny.  Dont get it at all.

[FlickJax]

Well Mr Zulu, you certainly seem to be in the minority on this forum so perhaps we just don't get what your smoking?

[Zulu1966]

Well Mr Zulu, you certainly seem to be in the minority on this forum so perhaps we just don't get what your smoking?

Seven pages in ... I guess someone had to get personal ... disappointing in that this board seems relatively free of that kind of thing . Still - maybe time to retreat into the lurking shadows again.

[FlickJax]

That was not meant to be personal, sorry if you thought it was.

But if you look at the posts on this subject you do seem to be the main protagonist for the defence against a majority of similar minded responses.