WitE - The Lost Battles

[jjdenver]

Both AI and Humans use the carpet strategy mainly because there's no choice.

Unit carpet is a by product of the 3 unit stacking rule.  Only 3 units are allowed in a hex.  It is supposed to be based on historical unit frontage and prevents people from overstacking a hex with a stack of doom.    Fortification calculations are modified now so that the carpets aren't as formidable as before but still a potent strategy to use since there isn't any alternative.

As a balancing factor, surrounded units die instantly the next turn.  A lot don't like this feature as well.  Germans hate the carpet, Soviets hate the instant surrender.

Thanks for the explanation Jomni. This made me very sad after I bought the game and played it for a month or 2, because really this could have been a dream game for me - I really love this type of game but when I realized the unit carpets were here to stay I couldn't even bring myself  to play anymore. Very tragic really that such a flaw is in what is otherwise a very good game imo.

[MengJiao]

Both AI and Humans use the carpet strategy mainly because there's no choice.

Unit carpet is a by product of the 3 unit stacking rule.  Only 3 units are allowed in a hex.  It is supposed to be based on historical unit frontage and prevents people from overstacking a hex with a stack of doom.    Fortification calculations are modified now so that the carpets aren't as formidable as before but still a potent strategy to use since there isn't any alternative.

As a balancing factor, surrounded units die instantly the next turn.  A lot don't like this feature as well.  Germans hate the carpet, Soviets hate the instant surrender.

Yes - WiTE got an awful lot wrong in my view. Subsequent attempts to fix things up have only made things worse or broken other things. Probably my most disppointing game ever.

I agree.  There was a lot that was potentially really good about WitE, but they didn't come together for me, sadly.

[sandman2575]

Probably my most disppointing game ever.

WitE tops my disappointment list as well.  Sigh...

[Tuna]

FYI cruising the WITE forum on Matrix, I saw this post for a free kindle book on Amazon

Decision in the Ukraine: German Panzer Operations on the Eastern Front, Summer 1943 (Stackpole Military History Series)

Thanks very much for that. I initially thought it was just a US thing, but found it on the UK website

So cheers  :D

Looks like that deal is over, must've been limited time.. Glad a few people got to use it!

[SgtRock]

I never got the play out of WITE that I got out of years of WITP/AE. It seems every time I started a WITE campaign 20-30 hrs in, they would release a new patch fixing some major issue so after a dozen or more restarts I just gave up.

[JudgeDredd]

^ and that right there is one of the major issues. And whilst support (and long term support) is great - at the end of the day, when a developer finds and fixes game breaking bugs that weren't discovered for months just feel like a kick in the nuts when it requires a campaign restart...especially for these big games.

[BigBlueFleet]

I enjoy WITE and am not regretting the Don to the Danube purchase so will have to buy this as well.  My few critiques of WITE the air war would be more in detail  (like WITP;AE) and the GHC would be able to streamline their industry to give the AXIS a better chance.

[Bismarck]

I enjoy WITE and am not regretting the Don to the Danube purchase so will have to buy this as well.  My few critiques of WITE the air war would be more in detail  (like WITP;AE) and the GHC would be able to streamline their industry to give the AXIS a better chance.

More detail?!  Better man than I.

Welcome, BTW.

[BigBlueFleet]

Thanks Bismarck, long time reader, rare poster... ;) :) 

[SgtRock]

Historically, WITE got a lot right, the mobile German forces surrounding and destroying Russian armies at will in the beginning of the war and the growing problems with supply lines as the Germans advance.  How playing the Russians is a shock, it's the only east front game I know, that shows just how close the Russians came to losing it all. Why you have create and throw rifle division after rifle division at the enemy and not run away to slow the German advance. How weather gave the Russians the chance to catch their breath and more than anything else crippled the German offense. The air war does seems weak, other than recon, it seems almost useless after the first few turns when playing the Germans. Still no game options to show what Germany could have done if it's economy was at 100%, the effects on how much man power/logistics was wasted on Hitler's final solution as the war went on or what if there was no lease/lend. The editor is great at adjusting forces but, using it to adjust German production/economy, is like trying to figure out & fix the US tax code.  I wish they would fix the air war in WITE before WITW (War in the West) where the air war was much more of a factor.

[jomni]

Sgt Rock pointed out a problem with the game design.  If you make the game too historically accurate, that means the Germans will almost always lose. :)

[Rogo727]

FYI cruising the WITE forum on Matrix, I saw this post for a free kindle book on Amazon

Decision in the Ukraine: German Panzer Operations on the Eastern Front, Summer 1943 (Stackpole Military History Series)

I have this book also as an ebook.   Sadly their best book called "the panzer legions" is not yet in ebook form.  Reading about each and every German division that was ever formed in ww2 is very fascinating to me.  Like others on here I too have WITE but not the expansions.  I get about an hour a day (if that to play wargames) and while I would love to get to know this game better I just don't have the time.

[SgtRock]

Sgt Rock pointed out a problem with the game design.  If you make the game too historically accurate, that means the Germans will almost always lose. :)

Your right, if a game always plays out the same way just like history, what's the point? Better to just read a book, I like games that allow one to explore the "What if's". If they put out an Expansion pack that explored some of these What if's then I might buy it.

[Rayfer]

Sgt Rock pointed out a problem with the game design.  If you make the game too historically accurate, that means the Germans will almost always lose. :)

Your right, if a game always plays out the same way just like history, what's the point? Better to just read a book, I like games that allow one to explore the "What if's". If they put out an Expansion pack that explored some of these What if's then I might buy it.

Well...is it necessarily to have a variant, 'what-if' scenario or could you explore different strategies than those employed by the Germans in their efforts to conquer Russia?  Could you create your own variant by trying something different....i.e. start by throwing most everything into the center for a rush to take Moscow, or protect your northern flank and throw everything into a drive on Stalingrad and the Caucasus oil fields, that sort of thing?  I own and play the game but only the shorter scenarios, I've yet to try the campaign so I don't know if what I am suggesting would even work.

[JudgeDredd]

I've had WitE for some time but only recently decided to make a concerted effort to actually learn how to play it.

Step one - play the Tutorial scenario (takes about an hour)

Step two - play through the Operational Bootcamp (took me 4-5 hours over two or three weekends)

Both the above have dedicated manuals which I found convenient to have in a second window on screen alongside the game window.

The Operational Bootcamp was origionaly on the forum here http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2649216 with the PDF version now available with the game (when the current patch is applied)
...

Can I ask where the Operational Bootcamp manual is? My game is patched up (AND I have Don to the Danube expansion) and not only can I not see the Operational Bootcamp manual on the game interface, I can't see anything that looks like that in the Manuals folder for the game