Why don't we see kickstarters for computer war games?

[SgtRock]

I'm always amazed at the amount of money that some games get through kickstarters yet, I don't know of any kickstarters for computer war games, do you?

One wonders, would CM Campaigns been completed if kickerstarts had been available at the time?

[carnator]

i just made a computer war game and no one seems to want to play it.  maybe that has something to do with it...

[tgb]

i just made a computer war game and no one seems to want to play it.  maybe that has something to do with it...

You would probably see more interest if it wasn't on-line multiplayer only.

[Jarhead0331]

i just made a computer war game and no one seems to want to play it.  maybe that has something to do with it...

You would probably see more interest if it wasn't on-line multiplayer only.

+1.  carnator...our community here consists of some pretty hardcore wargamers.  We make up a significant portion of your niche market.  Please don't take the lack of interest personally.  It has not been meant that way. Rather, use it constructively to try to modify your game into something the community would be interested in playing.   Just my .02.

[carnator]

i just made a computer war game and no one seems to want to play it.  maybe that has something to do with it...

You would probably see more interest if it wasn't on-line multiplayer only.

Probably.  But, I don't know why you guys are so against playing an online multiplayer game.  I mean, you play table top war games and board games right...do they have single player???

[LongBlade]

i just made a computer war game and no one seems to want to play it.  maybe that has something to do with it...

You would probably see more interest if it wasn't on-line multiplayer only.

Probably.  But, I don't know why you guys are so against playing an online multiplayer game.  I mean, you play table top war games and board games right...do they have single player???

I remember looking at it, but got distracted. (happens a lot)

I'll see if I can clear some time to spend with it and give you some feedback.

[carnator]

i just made a computer war game and no one seems to want to play it.  maybe that has something to do with it...

You would probably see more interest if it wasn't on-line multiplayer only.

Probably.  But, I don't know why you guys are so against playing an online multiplayer game.  I mean, you play table top war games and board games right...do they have single player???

I remember looking at it, but got distracted. (happens a lot)

I'll see if I can clear some time to spend with it and give you some feedback.

Thanks LongBlade.  Msg me on the chat client, I am 'carnator' there as well.  I can show you the ropes, teach you how to play.  I am jordanbrock123 on Skype if you want to chat there. 

[Capn Darwin]

I can think of a couple reasons.

1. It takes some time and effort to have a successful KickStarter campaign. Most computer wargames are made by small teams already with day jobs and trying to produce a game. That's our case at least.

2. Computer games are very hard to tie down to a ship date. In fact, nearly impossible. KickStart projects really need to have a set time frame to keep the folks supporting happy.

3. Not a lot of folks making war games and even less so these days doing it on computer. If you have a good system in place, a board wargame can get turned around in pretty short order. Biggest hurdle for them is getting them made and shipped. Computer games are the opposite. Takes a long time to produce, but can be distributed in hours.

4. To really have a successful (in terms of sales) wargame, you need to have it play single player. That means AI and AI is a #$@#% to code and code well. As Carnator points out most board game require more than one person to play (although a good wargame system should allow for some form of solitaire play). Where 99% of multiplayer games fail is having folks find decent players to play against. If you are playing a board game, chances are you know the person across the table.

5. I think if the Grogheads here had not started the GARPA articles, most of the posters here would not know about kickstarter. It would be interesting to see how many folks here would support a computer wargame development and what they would want for the money. We would also need to know just how long they would wait. Could be years for a small free time crew or months if the funding pays the bills for full time labor on the game.

Great question.  8)

[carnator]

I can think of a couple reasons.

1. It takes some time and effort to have a successful KickStarter campaign. Most computer wargames are made by small teams already with day jobs and trying to produce a game. That's our case at least.

2. Computer games are very hard to tie down to a ship date. In fact, nearly impossible. KickStart projects really need to have a set time frame to keep the folks supporting happy.

3. Not a lot of folks making war games and even less so these days doing it on computer. If you have a good system in place, a board wargame can get turned around in pretty short order. Biggest hurdle for them is getting them made and shipped. Computer games are the opposite. Takes a long time to produce, but can be distributed in hours.

4. To really have a successful (in terms of sales) wargame, you need to have it play single player. That means AI and AI is a #$@#% to code and code well. As Carnator points out most board game require more than one person to play (although a good wargame system should allow for some form of solitaire play). Where 99% of multiplayer games fail is having folks find decent players to play against. If you are playing a board game, chances are you know the person across the table.

5. I think if the Grogheads here had not started the GARPA articles, most of the posters here would not know about kickstarter. It would be interesting to see how many folks here would support a computer wargame development and what they would want for the money. We would also need to know just how long they would wait. Could be years for a small free time crew or months if the funding pays the bills for full time labor on the game.

Great question.  8)

This is basically why Just Tactics is multiplayer only.  We were a tiny team (now we are small team), and we had a tiny budget, none of us was good at AI.  We were, however, proficient at building out the multiplayer end of things (having extensively modded and run counterstrike servers and tournaments for a number of years).  So we decided to go with multiplayer only, because we knew that we could get that done (and actually finish the game). 

So, where we are now is a multiplayer online game (a pretty sweet one IMO).  You guys will play a tabletop wargame in person...well what I am suggesting is that I have built basically that.  And that grogheads is an online community, a community of gamers that isn't necessarily going to meet up and have a gaming session in real life, perhaps some of us will never meet in real life to play with each other.  But, I did build this game, and it is an opportunity for us to play online, just like the groghead community is online.  In our (tiny) Just Tactics community we don't have any of the annoying people you find in like online Call of Duty servers screaming horrible obscenities at each other, I am sure we will come across some of them, but, for the most part, the genre of the game will keep those types over playing mindless FPS titles. 

I am suggesting we can chat, skype, whatever you want online, and get a community going as if we were playing an in-the-flesh wargame session, the advantage being that even though this community is spread across the globe, we can do it online!  hooray technology.  anyway, I am 'carnator' online, I am down to chat and teach you how to play.  Once a couple of you guys learn you can teach other grogheads how to play, and this thing can spread a bit.  We have a rating system in place, and also the ability to create private matches, so getting a good (or friendly) opponent should be doable. 

[bbmike]

I mean, you play table top war games and board games right...do they have single player???

I mostly played Star Fleet Battles all by myself. Big, huge galactic wars that went on and on. Fun stuff! I also play Civilization V alone in hotseat mode and control 7-8 civs myself. Don't underestimate the desire for single player games.  ;)
Back on topic, I think there would be more if there were more success stories. One day I need to go back and look at all of the 'coming soon!' games that I drooled over and see what happened to them. I hear about a cool game in the works now and it's like 'meh, they'll never finish it'.
That said, I'm really hoping doomtrader has success with Worlds of Magic.  ;D

[magnus]

 " Just Tactics " from me checking it out is a strategy game but not a wargame.

  Strategy games can go from Chess to monopoly but none of those are wargames.

At least not from my perspective.

  I wish you all the best with your game but it is not my cup of tea.

[LongBlade]

" Just Tactics " from me checking it out is a strategy game but not a wargame.

  Strategy games can go from Chess to monopoly but none of those are wargames.

At least not from my perspective.

  I wish you all the best with your game but it is not my cup of tea.

Yes and no. Certainly Just Tactics isn't a historical wargame.

However, it is a turn-based tactical combat game. Not strictly a wargame maybe, but much closer something like Combat Mission than it is to, say, Total War.

[carnator]

" Just Tactics " from me checking it out is a strategy game but not a wargame.

  Strategy games can go from Chess to monopoly but none of those are wargames.

At least not from my perspective.

  I wish you all the best with your game but it is not my cup of tea.

Yes and no. Certainly Just Tactics isn't a historical wargame.

However, it is a turn-based tactical combat game. Not strictly a wargame maybe, but much closer something like Combat Mission than it is to, say, Total War.

I will put my reputation out there and guarantee you that:  Just Tactics is 100% historically inaccurate. 

[LongBlade]

I will put my reputation out there and guarantee you that:  Just Tactics is 100% historically inaccurate.

Heh. Quite the risk taker there, aren't ya?  ;D

[Arctic Blast]

I'm always amazed at the amount of money that some games get through kickstarters yet, I don't know of any kickstarters for computer war games, do you?

One wonders, would CM Campaigns been completed if kickerstarts had been available at the time?

Honestly, I think far too many wargame developers are stuck in the past compared to devs in any other segment of gaming. Ancient graphic engines mean they don't exactly have much to 'show off'. Antique UI's stuck in the past are not an easy sell. And too much of it ends up being fairly same-y. "Help me fund the dream of letting you fight the Battle of the Bulge. Again."

As for CM Campaigns, it was probably an unworkable mess of an idea from the start. "Let's bolt a campaign system on top of a series of games that weren't designed with that in mind years after they were released." Not so much.