Shogun 2 Total War

Martok · June 22, 2013, 04:23:15 AM

Holy crap, I already lost my first "serious" campaign...and this was on Easy difficulty! Haven't experienced anything like this since MTW/VI.

I think I have to consider myself officially put on notice to take the AI seriously. Love it.

undercovergeek · June 22, 2013, 04:27:13 AM

yeah that happened to me - dabbled, enjoyed and then jumped in - then got gloinged by the AI

had to do a bit of research on what to do and how to do it, i was a bit embarassed

bob48 · June 22, 2013, 06:15:10 AM

'Tis an excellent game. I'm really enjoying Fall of the Samurai :)

TheCommandTent · June 22, 2013, 07:29:45 AM

Glad to see you are enjoying it Martok.

I just started a new Rise of the Samurai campaign this weekend. I thought things were going well until one of my spy characters got caught, causing my neighbor and all his allies to declare war. I lost most of my trade income and have been fighting a tactical withdrawal as I desperately try to raise a new army. It has been tough but alot of fun.

Sir Slash · June 22, 2013, 09:08:25 AM

I think the factions to the south and west are a little easier than the ones in the middle of the map. ROTS has been tougher for me because of the slower pace and I neglected to build a navy from the start, but it's fun anyway. FOTS is my favorite. Gotta love those Gatling guns.

Martok · June 22, 2013, 09:43:11 AM

In the interests of full disclosure, I did commit a series of major mistakes (veterans of Shogun 2 will undoubtedly call them a "comedy of errors") that ultimately sank my last campaign ( :P ):

1.) While I defeated the Ogigayatsu army in my territory, I was not quick/aggressive enough in eliminating them entirely. By the time I actually moved into their (last) province of Musashi, the Satomi clan had already destroyed the Ogigayatsu and had taken ownership of Musashi themselves.

2.) Deciding I needed Musashi regardless, I went ahead and attacked the Satomi. The problem with this was two-fold:

3a.) When I declared war on the Satomi, I didn't bother to first check to see if they had any allies...which they did -- the Satake clan.

3b.) Even if I *had* checked, though, I'd still have dismissed have dismissed the Satake as irrelevant. (I mean, it's not as if alliances in previous TW games have really been that useful... ::) )

So you can imagine my (unpleasant) surprise when not only the Satomi appeared with an army to retake Musashi, but the Satake suddenly showed up at my doorstep with a fair-sized army as well -- this, despite the latter already being at war with the Uesgui. :o I quite unexpectedly found myself in the disagreeable position of being caught between two forces -- either of which I could've taken on singly, but not together or in close succession [unless we're talking about RTW]...and my line of retreat was blocked. I immediately tried suing for peace with both clans, but they would have none of it.

So I did what I could: I managed to crush the Satomi, and inflicted serious losses on the Satake; unfortunately, this cost me the destruction of the only real field army I had at the time...along with my best (and only other) general. I frantically rushed reinforcements (led by my daimyo) to the area, but it was too late. All I accomplished was to get my daimyo killed in a hopeless battle to retake Musashi...and with no adult heirs, the mighty Hojo clan disintegrated.

Now admittedly, I didn't play the smartest game -- far from it, in fact. But then I've not *had* to play very smart in this series for ages. (Plus, like I said, I was playing on Easy, for cryin' out loud!)

For all that I'd heard about the improved AI in Shogun 2, I confess I hadn't truly believed it until now. Not that it'll be passing the Turing Test anytime soon, of course, but I gotta give props to the AI programmer(s). For the first time in years, I'm playing a Total War game that actually feels like a genuine challenge. Halle-freaking-lujah!

I also will give credit to CA for bestowing the game with a good sense of atmosphere & immersion. It's still nowhere near as fantastic as the original STW or MTW/VI -- there's something about the old Risk-style maps and parchment-style artwork that gives the aesthete in me a huge metaphorical stiffy -- but the music & artwork are top-notch (no surprise with the former, given they finally brought Jeff back), and the voice-work is very decent as well (it almost sounds like they got the narrator for the original STW to come back for the sequel, although I wouldn't bet money on it).

I don't know if I'll be able to declare Shogun 2 the best game in the Total War series (to date) like some of you fellas have -- I suspect my love of the first two titles may simply be too strongly ingrained to ever be fully overcome -- but I will say it's the first TW game in a decade I've actually had fun playing. At the very least, it's a worthy addition to the franchise, and makes me cautiously optimistic that Rome 2 may just turn out okay.

Gusington · June 22, 2013, 11:07:59 AM

^Stubborn git! Shogun 2 is one of my favorite games...I have yet to win a campaign in Fall of the Samurai or the original campaign...haven't even tried Rise of the Samurai yet.

mikeck · June 22, 2013, 12:03:22 PM

This is why I'm so excited about Rome 2

Sir Slash · June 22, 2013, 01:17:54 PM

I love the Shogun 2 agents. They allow you to play like a real devious bastard as opposed to a pretend devious bastard. After a few levels of advancement, they can really have an effect on the game. In my current FOTS game, I've got an assassin that's advanced all the way to 6 stars, he's got the cute little devil mask. He's my go-to guy/ stone-cold killer. He never misses. The AI also uses these units very well too.

bob48 · June 22, 2013, 02:33:03 PM

^+1

Just started to realise what these guys are capable of. Adds a nice dimension to the game.

Gusington · June 22, 2013, 08:27:43 PM

Yeah man, the agents in FOTS are the most versatile and fun to use of all the TW games, IMHO.

Martok · June 22, 2013, 10:42:34 PM

Quote from: Gusington on June 22, 2013, 11:07:59 AM
^Stubborn git! Shogun 2 is one of my favorite games...I have yet to win a campaign in Fall of the Samurai or the original campaign...haven't even tried Rise of the Samurai yet.

What difficulty have you been playing on, btw? Normal? I'm just wondering how much of a challenge I'm really going to face...

Quote from: Sir Slash on June 22, 2013, 01:17:54 PM
I love the Shogun 2 agents.

<snip>

The AI also uses these units very well too.

I've already discovered this, to my cost. It seems like I can barely get any of my own agents trained before they're either assassinated, wounded, or imprisoned. Argh!

Sir Slash · June 22, 2013, 11:27:52 PM

Try letting them sit in a city until they pick-up a couple of levels. In FOTS this works pretty quickly. I can't remember if the same works in Shogun 2.

bob48 · June 23, 2013, 05:39:02 AM

I actally tried that last night, but enemy agents seem to zero in on them and kick 'em in the nuts before they can level up. Not only that, but either the AI is bloody smart or this was a coincient, but the clan that declared war on actually move agents into place outside / near cities and made a fine job of eliminating my leaders.

I guess I should have seen it coming, but it was neatly done.

TheCommandTent · June 23, 2013, 07:59:09 AM

So I thought my campaign was going very well. After a few road bumps I smoothed things over and I was expanding in a responsible fashion, living within my means, protect my trade routes etc. Then the campaign time reached its limit and I did not hold enough provinces ... it was very demoralizing. I was have fun and slowly expanding. Apparently it was to slow and responsible because the game said I had failed. :) So now I don't know if I just want to continue with the campaign for fun or start a new one and try to 'win' with in the time limit.