eSim Games offering Time Limited Licenses

[phredd1]

Seriously, MikeGER, I am impressed with your prescience. I consider myself a pessimist, but in 2006 I never thought things would get to this point.

[Toonces]

I popped some smoke over there for what good it will do.  Seriously, the positive reactions to this renting idea are really surprising to me.

[Jarhead0331]

I popped some smoke over there for what good it will do.  Seriously, the positive reactions to this renting idea are really surprising to me.

Much appreciated. Seriously, I am shocked at the unanimous support this philosophy is getting.  They excuse this developer from 1. Not releasing a demo and 2. Trying to rent them a game...and they love it!  The response was so hostile and one sided, that I was not going to further respond. There did not appear to be any point. I have stated my concern and I think I have done so clearly and professionally.

[James Sterrett]

I'd guess, but I do not know, that these changes are driven by eSim's military customers, not their hobby customers.

In my experience, military network security types have heart attacks over USB dongles, so I expect there's been a lot of pressure on eSim to change from USB to some other scheme.

Likewise, I'd guess that the direct connection to host is there because those same network security people are not going to permit a simulation to connect to an external host - let alone those situations when SB is running on a closed network.  (And, if the rental concept is bad, then having somebody else own your multiplayer host is bad too, right?  :)  )

[James Sterrett]

A link to the original announcement:  http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showthread.php?t=19375

The previous, non-time-limited, transferable Codemeter license remains an option.

[Jarhead0331]

The previous, non-time-limited, transferable Codemeter license remains an option.

I know...I still don't think the "option" is a good idea.  If it somehow manages to be profitable, sometime in the future it may no longer be an option, but the only choice.

[James Sterrett]

However, Nils says in the SB.com thread that the Codemeter will remain, and he's been honest and straightforward in my dealings with him.  Admittedly, times change, but I trust him that it is not currently planned.

What actually happens, time will tell.

[bayonetbrant]

I'm not sure I agree with the comparison between this game and an MMO.  Part of the 'rental' cost of an MMO is the management of the servers and their software that exist explictly for the customer interaction.
If I understand correctly, this game is *not* "World of Steel Beasts" where the point of the 'rental' cost is access to the online multiplayer community, right?  Or have I misunderstood it?

I think it's an interesting concept, and I can't fault a dev/publisher for trying something different.  I don't think it's the bees' knees, but I'm willing to reserve judgment 'til we see how it all actually gets implemented.

And I'm certainly not willing to engage in a flame war with anyone who thinks my skepticism is borne of fanboyishness, as I'm not even a Steel Beasts player...

[Nefaro]

I'm not sure I agree with the comparison between this game and an MMO.  Part of the 'rental' cost of an MMO is the management of the servers and their software that exist explictly for the customer interaction.
If I understand correctly, this game is *not* "World of Steel Beasts" where the point of the 'rental' cost is access to the online multiplayer community, right?  Or have I misunderstood it?

I think it's an interesting concept, and I can't fault a dev/publisher for trying something different.  I don't think it's the bees' knees, but I'm willing to reserve judgment 'til we see how it all actually gets implemented.

And I'm certainly not willing to engage in a flame war with anyone who thinks my skepticism is borne of fanboyishness, as I'm not even a Steel Beasts player...

I agree that always online DRM and monthly fees for MMOs do not compare to plain 'ole single- and multi-player games.

Whenever they come up with a server farm that can host thousands of players in the same virtual world at once, which are running practically 24-7 and get regular content updates for free, then I can see them charging a small amount monthly.  Because then it would be an MMO, the key words being massively multi-player.   

....

On another note, I'm kinda surprised some of you bothered going over there and speaking out against such marketing schemes.  Since everyone there seemed to be praising the move, it sounds like a fanboy-fest.  May as well argue with your refrigerator.   :P  Still.. respect for doing so.

It's always nice having more options, and the avid players probably think it will bring a new influx of simmers to their community, which I can understand.  But they obviously don't care the cost or ramifications or even whether many potential buyers still think it blows whale choad.  Sad thing is... if the only feedback the eSim guys are getting are from the die-hards who'll eat anything they're given, then this can only be a loss for future possibilities the rest of us might consider.

[LongBlade]

May as well argue with your refrigerator.   

I will have you know that I am highly dissatisfied with my refrigerator's automated ice dispenser's performance. I routinely berate it several times a day, and sometimes that seems to work.

[Ssnake]

I don't know why the debate at SimHQ turned somewhat hostile, but I'd like to take the opportunity to explain ourselves a bit and what lead to the decisions to offer time based licenses in addition to the established USB stick solution.


1: Why is there no demo?

I can't speak for other developers. For us, the demo version that we released about four months prior to the original game release was both boon and bane. It helped us to create awareness, which was the whole point of it, but it also created a massive demand for tech support that we could manage only with quite a bit of struggle. If I remember it correctly (memory is fading...) we even had to remake the demo because in the four months leading up to the first game release some substantial changes were added where we felt that the original demo was no longer representative of the original.

It also may be taken as a great compliment if years after the release you still get comments of the kind "The demo was so cool, I have played it for more than a year now" - until you realize that you just lost a sale in exchange for a warm and fuzzy feeling.

In short, you want a demo that is representative of the full game without being so good that people play it rather than actually buying the game. Releasing  demo creates a substantial burden in tech support. And demo versions take a life of their own as they are being mirrored on other game sites and eventually start percolating through the internet (maybe even into the "WayBackMachine" and other internet archives) so that people might play a demo that is long obsolete (and then curse you because it either looks dated or won't play properly because it IS dated and won't work on an operating system that wasn't even on the market at the time when the demo was originally released.

These nuisances aside, the decision to use the CodeMeter USB stick as an external decryption device requires that USB sticks be mailed to a (prospective) customer. That is very costly and time consuming, and therefore not practical. The alternative was offered by two volunteers of the Steel Beasts community - to buy multiple licenses, and to configure their home PC as a license server to allow people to connect to them and use these PCs as a source for their license. This incurs a very real and substantial burden on those volunteers, especially with respect to their spare time, and I think it would be neither grateful nor reasonable of eSim Games to expect them to extend their offer forever.

So, in order to relieve the pressure on these volunteers we decided that there should be a demo version for those who felt that they would likely buy it, but who weren't 100% confident. For those who are "pretty confident" but who still want to limit their risk, the four month license has been invented. Regular play can either be done with a $40.- per year subscription or with the established model of buying a permanent license and eventually also following upgrades.

Also, short term licenses may be useful for ad-hoc LAN parties or the kids coming over for the holidays. I'm sure, as always our customers will be more imaginative with license options than we are when inventing this stuff.


2: Is this a nefarious scheme to establish Pay Per Play?

No. Even if you fear a "dangerous precedent" here, the precedent has been set by much bigger corporations with vastly more customers that we will ever manage to win (Adobe, Microsoft, Blizzard). Even if you argue that there is no server farm that must be paid for like for an MMO game - I would point out that only a negligible fraction of World of Warcraft's obscene monthly cash flow is spent on the network infrastructure. The main use of funds (aside from snorting cocaine with $100 bills) is spent on generating new quests and maintaining the whole world (like, saving the unstable virtual economy). Also, to finance ongoing software development for eventual updates.
In that respect, Steel Beasts is quote comparable to the extent that there, too, is a continuous ongoing development. Less so for new content (levels, missions) - but still for new vehicles, maps, updating the render engine, adapting to the latest Windows version, and above all, fixing and improving things that the user may not notice but which is arguably VASTLY more important than the addition of crew stations to the M1A2SEP.

The CodeMeter stick based permanent licenses will stay. We have no inclination to discontinue this option.


3: If eSim Games isn't evil incarnate, then why add this madness to begin with?

Partly answered in #1. The main reason however was the loss risk. Some people lose their sticks. Usually its negligence, sometimes it's bad luck (like a home consumed by a raging inferno), "life", maybe even theft. An in those cases we cannot help the customer. If a CM stick stops working, mail it in for an unlimited warranty. If you damaged it, you have to pay for the stick but at least getting back the license is free.
With a time based license that is tied to the actual hardware of the PC/notebook, at least "normal everyday negligence" as the probably most common cause to losses is out of the equation (those who even forget their desktop PCs while traveling by bus are, I suppose, beyond help).
It's still not entirely without risk, I'm the first to admit it: You may be unaware of the thunderstorm outside because of the thunderstorm of virtual artillery in Steel Beasts, but lightning may strike and ruin your PC along with the recently bought Steel Beasts license. Statistically you may be losing 50% of the rental period here. But that's still cheaper than replacing a damaged CM stick even under unfavorable assumptions. Eventual remaining play time of a license after buying a new computer can be used up by configuring the old PC as a license server (we will assist you in setting things up).


4: You still want to make more money at my expense, don't you?

We're no better people than other heartless capitalists, but this morning I calculated again how much more we're going to earn from a $40.- rental scheme over a $115.- initial purchase together with the to be expected upgrades of the future. Under the assumption of a moderate price increase of upgrades ($25.- in winter 2014, $30.- in summer 2016 and in winter 2017, and $40.- in summer 2019) and assuming that each of the upgrades you consider it worth the pay, it's $240.- for the stick vs $280.- for the evil rental scheme. That's a whopping $40.- in six years, assuming that you take no breaks in your play. If you do, it might even be permanently cheaper since with the rental there will be no license upgrade fees.


In short, I think that our offer is unsuitable to start a big debate about how software rental might ruin everything. We just try to improve our customer service by tailoring an alternative offer to a different type of user. I invite you to denounce me once that eSim Games discontinues the CodeMeter stick. Until then, maybe this isn't quite so bad after all.

;)

[LongBlade]

Ha!

You beat me to it. I was working on an interview to send you :)

Thanks for coming over, Ssnake!

[MikeGER]

Ssnake,
Thanks for showing up here :)

i read your text passage about a demo back and for and get the arguments, but...

if you can sell a licence for a month for $10, why not adding an additional shorter time period  and 'selling' a licences for maybe 3 days for $0  (and limit the toys that are available for owner of those 3-day licences). 
That would be an easy way to create a demo.
It would be allways the latest version. And the simulation is so hardcore that nobody who is really interested in your product will go through the burdening process of renewing that licence again and again, if he really had catch fire, so no sales would be lost too. (there will be some cheapos who will do that for a short while, but those would never purchase anyway or they would have get the $10 after the 3days peek)

Ssnake if you take a look at the (war)game producing industry, and had followed the sneaking changes of how things drift over time, you could understand the worries of an old Grognardhead who had played Kampfgruppe on a C64.   

For example, there is a tendency that wargames are already market with heavyweight on the MP part instead of a good SP (limited resources for AI), which is -of course- done over a company server. 
Its only a small step from here to 'outsource the AI to the server' even in a SP match
(marketing argument: we help your PC with the calculations and we can provide you with a smarter AI for a better game experience ,  for example Simcity claimed to do that! )
Next step is give away the otherwise traditional (war)game as a client for free and offer a very small micro-payment, maybe 'starting only with' (i almost already hear the marketing mumbo-jumbo) 5 cent for a match (come on ... its only 5 cents! what do you get for 5 cents these days ...) ...and then its down the beaten business track  ....the larger map is 8 cents, better opponent on that map is 11 cent, want have the SS Division as reinforcement instead of Romanians Hilfstruppen too its 15 cent...   you get the idea)

Well, eSim in its niche of the niches will still sell its dongles as promised,
but what will do Slitherine in half a jiffy (after they bought Battlefront  ;) ...and some more :o)?

     

[Jarhead0331]

1: Why is there no demo?

I can't speak for other developers. For us, the demo version that we released about four months prior to the original game release was both boon and bane. It helped us to create awareness, which was the whole point of it, but it also created a massive demand for tech support that we could manage only with quite a bit of struggle. If I remember it correctly (memory is fading...) we even had to remake the demo because in the four months leading up to the first game release some substantial changes were added where we felt that the original demo was no longer representative of the original.

It also may be taken as a great compliment if years after the release you still get comments of the kind "The demo was so cool, I have played it for more than a year now" - until you realize that you just lost a sale in exchange for a warm and fuzzy feeling.

In short, you want a demo that is representative of the full game without being so good that people play it rather than actually buying the game. Releasing  demo creates a substantial burden in tech support. And demo versions take a life of their own as they are being mirrored on other game sites and eventually start percolating through the internet (maybe even into the "WayBackMachine" and other internet archives) so that people might play a demo that is long obsolete (and then curse you because it either looks dated or won't play properly because it IS dated and won't work on an operating system that wasn't even on the market at the time when the demo was originally released.

These nuisances aside, the decision to use the CodeMeter USB stick as an external decryption device requires that USB sticks be mailed to a (prospective) customer. That is very costly and time consuming, and therefore not practical. The alternative was offered by two volunteers of the Steel Beasts community - to buy multiple licenses, and to configure their home PC as a license server to allow people to connect to them and use these PCs as a source for their license. This incurs a very real and substantial burden on those volunteers, especially with respect to their spare time, and I think it would be neither grateful nor reasonable of eSim Games to expect them to extend their offer forever.

So, in order to relieve the pressure on these volunteers we decided that there should be a demo version for those who felt that they would likely buy it, but who weren't 100% confident. For those who are "pretty confident" but who still want to limit their risk, the four month license has been invented. Regular play can either be done with a $40.- per year subscription or with the established model of buying a permanent license and eventually also following upgrades.

Also, short term licenses may be useful for ad-hoc LAN parties or the kids coming over for the holidays. I'm sure, as always our customers will be more imaginative with license options than we are when inventing this stuff.

So it seems to me that eSim Games just made a cost v. benefit decision on this.  Releasing a demo was just too costly and required too much work to maintain and support, when compared to the uncertainty of revenue generated directly due to exposure to the demo.  That's fair enough, but that being said, other small developers have managed to release a complex game, while also producing a demo to showcase it.  None of them developed a time limited digital license approach to sales. So clearly, there were and are other options.

2: Is this a nefarious scheme to establish Pay Per Play?

No. Even if you fear a "dangerous precedent" here, the precedent has been set by much bigger corporations with vastly more customers that we will ever manage to win (Adobe, Microsoft, Blizzard). Even if you argue that there is no server farm that must be paid for like for an MMO game - I would point out that only a negligible fraction of World of Warcraft's obscene monthly cash flow is spent on the network infrastructure. The main use of funds (aside from snorting cocaine with $100 bills) is spent on generating new quests and maintaining the whole world (like, saving the unstable virtual economy). Also, to finance ongoing software development for eventual updates.
In that respect, Steel Beasts is quote comparable to the extent that there, too, is a continuous ongoing development. Less so for new content (levels, missions) - but still for new vehicles, maps, updating the render engine, adapting to the latest Windows version, and above all, fixing and improving things that the user may not notice but which is arguably VASTLY more important than the addition of crew stations to the M1A2SEP.

The CodeMeter stick based permanent licenses will stay. We have no inclination to discontinue this option.

I don't really feel like I need to address this point.  I certainly never accused eSim Games of pursuing a "nefarious" course of action, or doing anything to purposely harm potential customers.  In fact, I specifically stated to the contrary. I'm not really sure where this impression came from.  Perhaps you should ask your fans at Simhq?

Regardless of what you say, I still don't see a comparison between SBPro and a subscription based service like any of the MMOs that are all the rage.  As far as I know, SBPro is the first "game" of its kind to offer a license that is actually limited by time.

Otherwise, while I don't particularly care for the codemeter stick, I don't particularly dislike it either.  I'd prefer that I did not need to keep an eye on it whenever I change computers or relocate, and I'd prefer not having to plug it in or take up a USB port, but other than that, its pretty benign.

3: If eSim Games isn't evil incarnate, then why add this madness to begin with?

Partly answered in #1. The main reason however was the loss risk. Some people lose their sticks. Usually its negligence, sometimes it's bad luck (like a home consumed by a raging inferno), "life", maybe even theft. An in those cases we cannot help the customer. If a CM stick stops working, mail it in for an unlimited warranty. If you damaged it, you have to pay for the stick but at least getting back the license is free.
With a time based license that is tied to the actual hardware of the PC/notebook, at least "normal everyday negligence" as the probably most common cause to losses is out of the equation (those who even forget their desktop PCs while traveling by bus are, I suppose, beyond help).
It's still not entirely without risk, I'm the first to admit it: You may be unaware of the thunderstorm outside because of the thunderstorm of virtual artillery in Steel Beasts, but lightning may strike and ruin your PC along with the recently bought Steel Beasts license. Statistically you may be losing 50% of the rental period here. But that's still cheaper than replacing a damaged CM stick even under unfavorable assumptions. Eventual remaining play time of a license after buying a new computer can be used up by configuring the old PC as a license server (we will assist you in setting things up).


4: You still want to make more money at my expense, don't you?

We're no better people than other heartless capitalists, but this morning I calculated again how much more we're going to earn from a $40.- rental scheme over a $115.- initial purchase together with the to be expected upgrades of the future. Under the assumption of a moderate price increase of upgrades ($25.- in winter 2014, $30.- in summer 2016 and in winter 2017, and $40.- in summer 2019) and assuming that each of the upgrades you consider it worth the pay, it's $240.- for the stick vs $280.- for the evil rental scheme. That's a whopping $40.- in six years, assuming that you take no breaks in your play. If you do, it might even be permanently cheaper since with the rental there will be no license upgrade fees.


In short, I think that our offer is unsuitable to start a big debate about how software rental might ruin everything. We just try to improve our customer service by tailoring an alternative offer to a different type of user. I invite you to denounce me once that eSim Games discontinues the CodeMeter stick. Until then, maybe this isn't quite so bad after all.

;)

So which is it?  An attempt to aid customers from having to repurchase the software when and if they lose their codemeter, or an attempt to generate income?  You first seem to suggest its the former, and then go on to explain the latter.  Also, why do you insist on couching this discussion in terms of something "evil?"  I have gone out of my way to argue that there is no "evil" intent here, but that the end result may be detrimental to consumers. 

Frankly, I don't care what Microsoft or EA or Ubisoft does...I don't really play their games all that much.  I'm more concerned with what guys like eSim Games, DCS, matrix/Slitherine, Battlefront, etc. do...and whether you like it or not, or want to believe it or not, they are watching what other similarly situated developers are doing and can be influenced.  In this case, I hope they are not.

Anyway, I'm glad you dropped by, and I hope you'll continue to stay and provide updates and information to our community.

[Ssnake]

if you can sell a licence for a month for $10, why not adding an additional shorter time period  and 'selling' a licences for maybe 3 days for $0  (and limit the toys that are available for owner of those 3-day licences).

Believe it or not, we too have to pay for every license that we issue, and while $5.- for a week would at least make us not lose money, $10.- for a full month sounds like a better deal to me, simply because SB Pro PE is a rather complex simulation with a lot to learn - something that a single weekend may not be sufficient (not everybody is a student, or jobless; a week-long license will in reality collapse to a few hour during the week at best, and maybe two half days or so during a weekend - we all have life and family who interfere with our gaming habits).

Maybe I am leading the wrong discussion in the first place, actually. Until recently there was NO DEMO except for what two volunteers offered, at $100.- to try it out forever. Now there will be one, at a tenth of the cost, for a full month. Surely you will agree that this is a vast improvement over what it was before?

Last but not least: If it doesn't cost anything, to most people it is worthless. By charging a relatively small sum you have an incentive not to drop it at the first moment of frustration, but to eventually try to figure out WHY things didn't work out. I still encourage everybody to learn as much as possible about Steel Beasts Pro before whipping out the wallet. To be honest, I am not the least interested in placating the woes of impulse buyers. We are a small team, and I cannot possibly address the questions of all the people who don't even care to read a tutorial text "because there's so much text in it". Such a complaint will raise no sympathy with me.
Steel Beasts Professional is a learning tool first and foremost. Yes, one can also have a lot of fun with it, but training and education are its primary mission objectives. The whole software has been designed to fit that purpose. I don't want to come across as arrogant here, these are simply the facts. In the past we chose a price above $100.- also as a deterrence against casual buyers who would have no clue about what to expect.

What some of you recognize as a severe case of fanboi fever is actually the result of careful selection of our customers. They all checked out SB Pro carefully before making a buying decision, and because they got exactly what they expected from it (or else they wouldn't have spent so much money on "a game"), the overall customer satisfaction level is at an extraordinary high. Offering SB Pro PE for at little s $10.- is actually a risk that we are taking, and I hope that in the end it'll work out. There's only one way to find out however.

Ssnake if you take a look at the (war)game producing industry, and had followed the sneaking changes of how things drift over time, you could understand the worries of an old Grognardhead who had played Kampfgruppe on a C64.

While I was too poor to own a C64 as a kid, don't underestimate my knowledge in this area. My memories go back almost as long as that one, "The Perfect General" for Amiga being an example. ;)
I think there simply is a bit of lack of understanding about this recent move of ours. We simply come from different directions, but that doesn't mean that we couldn't match course eventually. ;)

Your examples of micro payments are what wouldn't work in Steel Beasts, ever, and what we would therefore not even attempt doing. It reminds me of some other argument in this thread that we should do it like "Cliffs of Dover" and release a castrated game where people could buy extra vehicles as DLC. It has always been eSim Games' product policy that we do not modularize, that we do not sell our software with a "salami strategy", that we do not create dependency on some game server infrastructure.
Steel Beasts isn't about flying and dogfights. Steel Beasts isn't about sending your Pixeltruppen at operational scale against faceless computer hordes. Steel Beasts is close enough to a first person shooter without actually being one, it's also a real-time strategy game if you want (except that there's no base building, no resource management except maybe ammunition and availability of artillery fire support), there are no Zerg rushes of a more or less incompetent "A.I."
Steel Beasts is what a dozen armies worldwide use to train and educate their officer cadets in tactics (or upcoming staff officers in operations), and what they use, if combined with suitable hardware, for armored fighting vehicles crew training.

I cannot help you about your fears about what other game companies may be doing. I can only speak for eSim Games, and that we do not have a hidden agenda, as much as some people seem to want to find one.

What I can say is that traditional computer wargames in general are no lucrative business, which gives your concerns about the future of wargames very little leverage over developers. The sad reality is, in computer game development money talks. If there i no serious money to be made, you're stuck with academia (Hi, James!) and wargame enthusiasts making wargames for other wargame enthusiasts. Laudable, sometimes even marvellous efforts (War in the East), but nothing that will change the fundamental conditions.

I don't want eSim Games to be confined to a very narrow niche of a few armor connoisseurs. There's a lot of interesting stuff to be discovered in the world of chaotic, real-time combined arms combat, and offering these new time-based licenses is (just) one element to break established habits. Let's just see what will come from it. Not doing anything would be the safe thing, but I haven't become an entrepreneur because I avoid risks at all costs. :)