eSim Games offering Time Limited Licenses

[LongBlade]

I use keyboard and mouse, and I think that's the preferred set up.  Frankly, I can't gun for crap with keyboard/mouse. 

Hmmm.

I use a Razer mouse capable of custom dpi settings. I can crank it up to 5600 dpi for rapid movement and down as far as I want for precision stuff. Maybe something like that could help you?

[Toonces]

Well, we seem to have some SimHQ experts reading this thread now.  Hopefully a few of them will stick around and give us some pointers.

I'm not an SME at Steel Beasts.  The game kicks my ass and I barely grasp how to play somewhat effectively. 

I personally feel that SB is worth the purchase price, but I also feel that most high-end simulators are underpriced for what they offer.  I got DCS:A-10 for $5 on Steam and that is just obscene in my opinion.  Fortunately my repeated full-price purchases of various Lock-on/Flaming Cliffs iterations might have offset that somewhat.

[bayonetbrant]

I also feel that most high-end simulators are underpriced for what they offer.

for those of you not in the know, Toonces is in a pretty good position to compare sims to reality:

http://grogheads.com/?p=662

[Yskonyn]

I find it hard, but I'm more of a pilot-type than ground type.  Still, the challenge is part of the fun.

I finally sat down and no-shit read the manual the last few days and now I'm working through the tutorials.  The payoff seems amazing. 

They recently added the T-72 in the last upgrade.  From what I understand 3.0 is going to have all sorts of new stuff.  Honestly it's like the BMS of ground sims.  But it's not nearly as hard to learn as BMS.  Most of my problems stem from just not understanding how to effectively do ground stuff, utilize the terrain, things like that.

Quoted for truth once again. :)
The tactical application of your assets is what makes the sim hard. The controls of the tank itself are not that hard to learn.

I still have not dared going online. While I do think this is where the magic is, many players have military experience in the Armor side of things it seems, and I dont feel comfortable ruining their game experience with my noobness. :D

Furthermore I wish to thank Ssnake for hopping over and explaining his viewpoints and I want to thank everyone for keeping it a professional and respectful discussion.

[Ssnake]

I understand that much of the debate isn't about us, but what it might others to do. I think that much of what can be done depends on the technological infrastructure. We adopted the CodeMeter stick because it offers a high degree of flexibilty with respect to licensing models. The "lease vs buy" argument that some brought forward is a nice analogy, except that our model is a much better deal than leasing - because you don't have to pay your SB Pro leasing rates if you decide to take a pause. Try that with a car dealer. ;)

As far as SB Pro and gaming online is concerned, I say that going multiplayer is the by far most effective and fun way to learn, if you are an observant guy who stays for the after action review. Because then you can see what the other players did in their supporting roles (remember, it is  team effort ... and many games are actually played cooperatively - as humans vs. the computer). It is here where you can compare what the reported situation was (vs. the REAL situation, if you toggle the corresponding map overlay switch, which can sometimes be a massive difference (and they say that you can't hide a tank...).
Not going online because you fear that your skills are inadequate is a sure way to perpetuate that problem. It is much better to say Hello and ask for directions, because that's what the other players over at SteelBeasts.com will do. SB.com also has this neat calendar function with upcoming multiplayer events which you can use to coordinate your play times.

I agree with the assessment that learning the individual tank is much easier than to fly, say, the A-10 or other jets in recently released flight simulations. The real challenge is what to do with it once that you are confronted with the tactical challenges of a skirmish or even a bigger battle. Again, being able to talk to team mates during play and ask for advice, or to coordinate your movement with that of your friends to the left and to the right simply by talking to them makes it both easier, and more conducive to learning.

:)

[Grim.Reaper]

I use keyboard and mouse, and I think that's the preferred set up.  Frankly, I can't gun for crap with keyboard/mouse.  I've been thinking that a gamepad might really be more effective, but I haven't tried it.

I might just need more practice with the controls.  What I really want to do is to figure out how to play strictly from the commander's seat and allow my AI gunner to do all the shooting.  I know that must be possible, but I haven't figured out how to do it effectively.

Not sure if I really answered your question there...

Thanks....

[bayonetbrant]

FWIW - this is now a big discussion in other software markets, too

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/04/technology/personaltech/photoshop-cc-turns-software-into-a-monthly-rental.html
and
http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/05/photoshops-new-rental-program-and-the-outrage-factor/

[Jarhead0331]

FWIW - this is now a big discussion in other software markets, too

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/04/technology/personaltech/photoshop-cc-turns-software-into-a-monthly-rental.html
and
http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/05/photoshops-new-rental-program-and-the-outrage-factor/

Thank you...buckle up fellas'.  May be time to find a new hobby.

[James Sterrett]

Chiming in as one of the SB fanboys, on learning the sim.

In terms of keypresses, it's a lot easier than, say, learning Falcon 4 or DCS.

Most of the interface complexity is in the gunnery.  I can't stress that enough.  Gunnery is complex in the way that a Falcon 4 or DCS radar system is complex.  (On its accuracy - I'm not a tanker, but I've been playing Steel Beasts for years; when I got a chance to sit in the gunner's seat of an M-1 training simulator, I found that while I didn't know where any of the switches were, I knew what they did, due to SB.)

You don't need to be a good gunner.  Steel Beasts works at 4 different levels in single player.  You need to understand the lower ones to do the higher ones well, but you don't need to be an expert.

Gunner - focussed on operating the big cannon.

Tank Commander - maneuver your tank, give firing orders to the gunner.  You need to understand the capabilities and limitations of the cannon in order to employ the tank effectively, but you don't need to be a master gunner.

Platoon Leader: From your turret-top, maneuver your platoon, either en masse or in sections.  You'll want to start learning about moving forces on the 2D map and calling for artillery fire.

Company Commander: You may be in a turret top, but now a lot of your time is spent on the 2D map, coordinating forces and raining fires on the enemy.

These are 4 pretty distinct challenges.  Which one you prefer is up to you; but SB supports all of them well.

I've attached a handout that I give to my students covering the basics of tank commander & platoon commander controls.  I tell them to leave the gunner alone!  :)

[James Sterrett]

I use keyboard and mouse, and I think that's the preferred set up.  Frankly, I can't gun for crap with keyboard/mouse.  I've been thinking that a gamepad might really be more effective, but I haven't tried it.

I might just need more practice with the controls.  What I really want to do is to figure out how to play strictly from the commander's seat and allow my AI gunner to do all the shooting.  I know that must be possible, but I haven't figured out how to do it effectively.

Step 1:  Trust your gunner.  :)   The gunner has two magical qualities that nearly every human player lacks: The gunner never fires on destroyed targets, and the gunner never calls out to shoot at friendlies.

    Therefore, if your gunner shouts out "Tank!" or "PC!", hit Shift-Space (Fire and Adjust) and let the gunner get on with it.  95% of the time, this means the target's about to eat metal.  On a good day, your AI gunner is outstanding. 

Step 2: Control the gunner:

  In order of importance:
    a) Learn Space for "Fire!" and Shift-Space for "Fire and Adjust!"
    b) Learn to hit Insert to kill tanks, Delete to kill light armor, and use M to toggle between main gun and the coaxial machine gun (look in the upper right corner of the screen to see what
    c) Learn Shift-(arrow) to tell the gunner to scan front/left/right
            The gunner is generally pretty good at picking up targets
    d) Learn the override controls for your chosen tank
             M1: Hold P or middlemouse-button and move the mouse to slew the cannon
             Leopard: Learn to use the periscope and thermal sight - a tad more complex but a really powerful capability (presumably coming for the M1A2 in v3!)

Step 3: Understand the AI gunner's limitations.

     In single-player, all of your AI gunners has a skill set by your highest gunnery score.  Getting a score of 80 or higher will make your life easier as the TC.

     In multi-player, all AI gunners have a score of 80.

     * Your point of view, as the TC, is higher than the gunner's.  You can see more.  Your thermal sight, on top of the turret, can see more than the gunner can.  Check your F2 view to see the gunner's point of view.

     * The AI gunner can get confused by fleeting contacts.  You, the human, can understand that the target is mocing into and out of view among the trees.  The gunner sometimes keeps acquiring and dropping the contact.  This is when it may be time for you to drop briefly into the gunner's seat and take the shot - or to be patient.

[LongBlade]

FWIW - this is now a big discussion in other software markets, too

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/04/technology/personaltech/photoshop-cc-turns-software-into-a-monthly-rental.html
and
http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/05/photoshops-new-rental-program-and-the-outrage-factor/

My latest copy of MS Office offered me the choice to pony up some short money for a year or big money for a permanent copy. I elected to go with the one-year "lease" as it was cheaper in the short term. I know I'll owe it again in another six months or so but in the mean time it works and I use is daily.

[Yskonyn]

Hey James, thank for that solid piece of info.
I guess its the classic situation of sounding pretty straightforward, yet challenging in practise. :) Especially when burning hot steel starts flying around you. *grin*

Like Ssnake said, perhaps I should come out of the shadows and actually jump on the TS channel more often. It's a vicious circle; not playing online out of being shy about your skills will not enable you to become better by guidance from those who will give it to you...
It's just that when I watch a YouTube video like Brave Rifles I get excited and humble at the same time. :)

[LongBlade]

Step 2: Control the gunner:

  In order of importance:
    a) Learn Space for "Fire!" and Shift-Space for "Fire and Adjust!"
    b) Learn to hit Insert to kill tanks, Delete to kill light armor, and use M to toggle between main gun and the coaxial machine gun (look in the upper right corner of the screen to see what
    c) Learn Shift-(arrow) to tell the gunner to scan front/left/right
            The gunner is generally pretty good at picking up targets
    d) Learn the override controls for your chosen tank
             M1: Hold P or middlemouse-button and move the mouse to slew the cannon
             Leopard: Learn to use the periscope and thermal sight - a tad more complex but a really powerful capability (presumably coming for the M1A2 in v3!)

All your advice is great. I have a Razer Naga with 12 programmable thumb buttons. It sounds like it would be the perfect mouse to use to re-map all those controls into a more concise (and faster) remap.

[James Sterrett]

Honestly, I'd program the mouse for the gunner.

Gunnery takes place on a scale of seconds or less.  That said, 1) I find the keys are mapped well for the gunner and 2) trying to press buttons on the mouse while tracking a target screws up my target tracking - so I *like* having the lase key (control) and the fire key (space) *not* on the mouse.  (Track target, then hit control then space in rapid succession.)

Even in contact, the TC's often looking 5-10 seconds ahead.  (Insert for sabot and Delete for HEAT rounds, for example, don't take effect until the gunner fires the currently loaded round; you're telling the loader what round to load *next*.)

There are times when the TC is very much in the moment, but usually that's trying to direct the driver to save the tank from imminent death.

The platoon leader and company commander are looking at longer and longer time horizons on most of their decisions.  The company commander spends time being worried about how things happening now affect things 5, 10, or 30 minutes into in the future.

[republic]

First off...this thread is why Grogheads is awesome.  :)

I understand the trepidation people are feeling about the change in licensing, but I especially like this quote from Longblade:  "What works for a $120 tank sim isn't going to work for a $40 Battle Academy. "

I have to admit, the price has kept me from even really looking into Steel Beasts, despite it being a game right up my alley.  As a father of soon to be 2, and the sole bread winner I only have limited funds and even more limited...time.  I can see myself paying $10 to try out Steel Beasts for a month, and if I could find a community to play with regularly I would probably pay the $40 for a year.

However, the subscription model is a 2 edged sword for eSim.  Increased revenue from people who have been on the fence, but also once you start paying a subscription, you have more expectations of a company.  Next year when that $40 comes up, if people do not see advancements, they may opt to not re-up.