Detroit becomes largest US city to file for bankruptcy

[Windigo]

here I would take virtuous states and cities as those that have balanced budgets.

and you don't find that definition just a little disingenuous?  Any state/city that builds infrastructure has debt.

[Centurion40]

Michigan should decriminalize weed, tax its sale and permit the legal establishment of weed bars/casinos.  That'd turn the economy of Detroit around, and boost the enrollment of Michigan State U.

They don't need more weed.

They need a population that understands how to build a family, stay married, and learn to read and write.

Detroit seems to be the poster child for corruption and dependence on government programs.

Seeing how re-education camps might not fly, how about encouraging the people to help themselves?  The weed is not for the residents.  It's for tourists who will come and drop their vacation spending dollars having a good time; like Vegas with less sand.

[Centurion40]

here I would take virtuous states and cities as those that have balanced budgets.

Maybe Michigan needs to get invaded by the Americans Japanese/Germans and they can set the economy straight!  Returning the favor after WWII?

[Centurion40]

And I've just punted this into R&P!  :P

[LongBlade]

Americans in virtuous states and cities will be just as furious about their tax dollars flowing to Detroit and other distressed places as Germans are about euros going to southern Europe. But the truth is that America's whole public sector still operates in a financial never-never land. Uncle Sam offers an array of "entitlements" that there is no real plan to pay for. Barack Obama is on his way to joining George W. Bush as a president who did nothing about that, while Republicans in Congress imagine they can balance the books without raising taxes. The government spends more on health care than many rich countries and still does not cover everyone. America's dynamic private sector is carrying on its back an unreformed Leviathan. Detroit is merely a symptom of that.

Not a lot of factual information here... raises more questions than anything.....

whats a virtuous state? Whats a NOT virtuous state?

talk about a false dichotomy

Do you REALLY get influenced by this shit?

It's pretty clear what a lack of civic virtue produces, Windy.

giyf

[Centurion40]

While true, what (realistically) can be done about it??!!

[Windigo]

actually its GIYFS.... not sure what yours means    ;)

[bayonetbrant]

and you don't find that definition just a little disingenuous?  Any state/city that builds infrastructure has debt.

But there's a difference between bond-funded debt to raise money for a specific infrastructure project* and open-ended pension-based debt that underfunded based on life expectancy and retirement rates as well as the peculiarities of union labor contracts

Not all debt is created equal, and debt-with-no-repayment-plan-while-still-willfully-running-it-up is the worst kind of all



* let's sell bonds to build this bridge and pay back holders at 2.8% and we anticipate that taking 15 years, etc etc

[Windigo]

Virtue (Latin: virtus, Ancient Greek: ἀρετή "arete") is moral excellence. A virtue is a positive trait or quality deemed to be morally good and thus is valued as a foundation of principle and good moral being. Personal virtues are characteristics valued as promoting collective and individual greatness. The opposite of virtue is vice.

[Centurion40]

After years working in welfare, I can tell you that it is human nature not to want to be poor.  The trick is to motivate the poor to understand that they don't have to be poor, and then show them a way to be less poor and to cease being reliant on a hand-out.

It's a serious trick.

[Windigo]

and you don't find that definition just a little disingenuous?  Any state/city that builds infrastructure has debt.

But there's a difference between bond-funded debt to raise money for a specific infrastructure project* and open-ended pension-based debt that underfunded based on life expectancy and retirement rates as well as the peculiarities of union labor contracts

Not all debt is created equal, and debt-with-no-repayment-plan-while-still-willfully-running-it-up is the worst kind of all



* let's sell bonds to build this bridge and pay back holders at 2.8% and we anticipate that taking 15 years, etc etc

setting up a pension fund that is properly administered/reviewed is not a challenge on any tax payer - in this case I will bet dollars to doughnuts that the pension contributions went into general revenue funds and were never set aside 100%

[bayonetbrant]

^^ or were systematically under-collected with the expectation that some form of 'investment' would grow them over time.

I think the disconnect between Detroit (among others) and your post is

that is properly administered/reviewed

[Windigo]

After years working in welfare, I can tell you that it is human nature not to want to be poor.  The trick is to motivate the poor to understand that they don't have to be poor, and then show them a way to be less poor and to cease being reliant on a hand-out.

It's a serious trick.

you will always have my respect for working in the field you do 40Cent - for as long as you have.... the 1-5% that are bad apples would piss me off and I'd say something to them that'd get me put in the basement archieve room, sorting paper records, by hand, with the big fatty admin support, who did GDS, ...  and remembers it....   LOL

[Windigo]

^^ or were systematically under-collected with the expectation that some form of 'investment' would grow them over time.

I think the disconnect between Detroit (among others) and your post is

that is properly administered/reviewed

they need actuary consultations on a regular basis ....    a well run defined benefit plan will increase employee contributions if the investment portion of the fund doesn't perform very well and/or the retired employees are living longer

[Centurion40]

After years working in welfare, I can tell you that it is human nature not to want to be poor.  The trick is to motivate the poor to understand that they don't have to be poor, and then show them a way to be less poor and to cease being reliant on a hand-out.

It's a serious trick.

you will always have my respect for working in the field you do 40Cent - for as long as you have.... the 1-5% that are bad apples would piss me off and I'd say something to them that'd get me put in the basement archieve room, sorting paper records, by hand, with the big fatty admin support, who did GDS, ...  and remembers it....   LOL

It's more than 1-5%.  It can also be the case of the bad apples not knowing enough, or being too dysfunctional to get out of their own way.