Egypt, Again

[bayonetbrant]

a very, very good read on historical parallels with Egypt

Bernard Lewis predicted this mess when he said that the rush to early elections after the fall of Mubarak would lead, as did similar events in the Weimar Republic, to the ascension of the most dangerous elements society – meaning victory for the Muslim Brotherhood. In an interview with David Horowitz in the Jerusalem Post (February 25, 2011), Lewis cautioned that the discourse in Egypt is still "religiously defined" and that "the language of Western democracy is for the most part newly translated and not intelligible to the great masses." How many Egyptians, for instance, actually believe that Copts and Muslims, men and women, believers and nonbelievers, are equal—to say nothing of Jews and Muslims? Pressing for elections now, he warned, could lead to catastrophe, as only religious parties are well enough organized to take advantage of them. (Lewis preferred first to see the development of local self-governing institutions.) Therefore, he said, "I don't see elections, Western-style, as the answer to the problem. I see it rather as a dangerous aggravation of a problem. The Western-style election...has no relevance at all to the situation in most Middle Eastern countries. It can only lead to one direction, as it did in [Weimar] Germany, for example." He was right. True to form, once in power, the Muslim brotherhood and Morsi went methodically about trying to monopolize power. Morsi assigned himself powers that a Pharaoh would have envied.

and

In this struggle for power, some people will win; others will lose, but it is important enough that both sides are willing both to take and to lose lives to reach their objectives. Tut-tutting on the sidelines makes the United States appear ridiculous. Instead of just deploring violence, we should be appraising the character of the moral principles animating the two sides in this conflict and supporting the side that more closely comports with our own. And yes, that may require the choice of a lesser evil.

Unfortunately, the German military did not move against Adolph Hitler when he became Chancellor of Germany in 1933. Had they done so, Europe and the United States would have been spared a world of woe. Had that happened, would the American government have tried to intervene at the time, insisting on a restoration of Hitler, who had been democratically elected by a plurality of the German people? Would we have insisted that our democratic creed required us to do so? These questions answer themselves. We would have been grateful to the German military for doing so. We should likewise have some appreciation for what the Egyptian military has done to save its country and, by the way, preserve U.S. strategic interests in that area of the Middle East.

[LongBlade]

McCain has been hopping up and down trying to cut off aid to Egypt.

I can't figure out why.

Rand Paul's reasons are clear: we have laws stating we should cut off aid. At least that makes sense and has a remedy: pass a new law. I can't figure out McCain's reasoning at all.

[OJsDad]

One of the few times I listened to Beck for more than 5 secs in the last couple of years, and he was saying the same thing when Mubarak fell. 

[LongBlade]

One of the few times I listened to Beck for more than 5 secs in the last couple of years, and he was saying the same thing when Mubarak fell.

Yeah, it's no surprise. Watching the talking heads on TV pretty quickly revealed that only the bad guys were going to benefit from Mubarak's removal.

[airboy]

Egypt is important internationally for three reasons:
1] Suez Canal
2] Most populous Arab country
3] Borders Israel

I've been to Cairo.  It was a "fascinating" interaction of first, second and third world.  Some first world things.  Many 2nd world things.  But you still had donkeys pulling carts on the streets and literally throngs of the poor and illiterate on the streets. 

The air was so "special" that I was spitting black for two days afterwards (at sea on the Med). 

The "protesters" have spent lots of energy burning Christian churches (primarily Coptic) and homes & businesses owned by Christians.

The only industries of Egypt are transit fees on the Suez Canal & Tourism.  I'm guessing that tourism is tanking even more with the current unrest.  The guides in Egypt even said (multiple guides) that the rest of the world gave aid to Egypt because the rest of the planet owed so much to the Egyptian culture.  No kidding!

[OJsDad]

The guides in Egypt even said (multiple guides) that the rest of the world gave aid to Egypt because the rest of the planet owed so much to the Egyptian culture.  No kidding!

What!?  You didn't see Stargate!.  Heathen!!!

[mirth]

An Egyptian court has banned the Muslim Brotherhood

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2013/09/23/world/middleeast/ap-ml-egypt.html?hp

[Windigo]

An Egyptian court has banned the Muslim Brotherhood

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2013/09/23/world/middleeast/ap-ml-egypt.html?hp

hmmmmm, and the consequences/reaction will be.... another crazy-assed asymetrical war

[Centurion40]

Will "we" side with democracy, or side with those battling Islamic extremism?

Another rat's nest mess.

[Windigo]

Will "we" side with democracy, or side with those battling Islamic extremism?

Another rat's nest mess.

its clear we don't like democratically elected Muslim govts.

[mirth]

Will "we" side with democracy, or side with those battling Islamic extremism?

Another rat's nest mess.

its clear we don't like democratically elected Muslim govts.

Really Windi? You think it's as simple as that?

[GDS_Starfury]

dictators seem to be more stable.

[Windigo]

Will "we" side with democracy, or side with those battling Islamic extremism?

Another rat's nest mess.

its clear we don't like democratically elected Muslim govts.

Really Windi? You think it's as simple as that?

I guess droll gets lost....

what's the f'ing point of have a democracy in an Arab country if the first damn thing the bumblefug electorate do is vote in a population suppressing fundamentalist party that promptly starts to strip away freedoms??

they think they want it, but really?

Fug'em.... walk away

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Will "we" side with democracy, or side with those battling Islamic extremism?

Another rat's nest mess.

its clear we don't like democratically elected Muslim govts.

Really Windi? You think it's as simple as that?

I guess droll gets lost....

what's the f'ing point of have a democracy in an Arab country if the first damn thing the bumblefug electorate do is vote in a population suppressing fundamentalist party that promptly starts to strip away freedoms??

they think they want it, but really?

Fug'em.... walk away

Their biggest problem is their whole society revolves around the past, as in their book. Imagine if they had science fiction or anything looking forward. They they would not be so 'F this shit, time to blow something up'. They would be thinking forward to the possibilities of a future society. Instead they try to pretend all the answers were already given. Then they cant square that with how pathetic their lives are. Then they take it out on everyone else.

[Windigo]

Until we start nuking there goats and donkeys   8)