DOOM

[Bronwell]

For what it's worth.  The research difference I was referring to was that as the new Carrion Woods version of MA Pangaea (forgot name), all of the mages, including the 2-turn Pan Apostate have base research 5 rather than 2.  It is particularly skewed as I went with Magic-3 which in Dominions 4 means +3 research rather than +2 (each step now gives +1/-1, even at the +2/-2 Magic step which had bonus in Dominions 3).

Magic 1 is no longer the obvious choice.  I am interested by the magic changes as it seems drain scales are more penalized, but at the same time, higher base research on all mages makes the effect of drain less noticeable.

I think my favorite surprise was that blood magic bless.  Blood Vengeance on all sacred troops could truly be nasty.

[Haerdalas]

Really? wow, didnt see that. I need to check out the blesses if BLOOD VENGEANCE is availalbe from them. Is it anywhere near as nice as it is in Dom3?

Also, Heat/Cold scales have been changed. The now have a fairly significant impact (-5% income per level away from ideal, and something with supplies but I dont care about that) but most importantly, they now zero at the prefered scale. Eg Machaka, which I think prefers heat scale +2, starts at heat scale +2 on the start screen, and -gains no points for this-. You now only gain points for every step away from your nation's ideal. As I normally play cold 3 every game, this is quite an interesting change.

[Haerdalas]

Whoa, that is really damn new.

Guarding one of the Thrones of Ascension in one of my recent games? A goddamn neutral Titan of Storms. 7 Air and 4 Earth magic, very large army including spring hawks, icarids and gryphons. The lesser thrones had many defenders and strong mages, but this... this is effectively an NPC pretender god!

[Wingedflamez]

I am going to go ahead and put another 6 hours onto the host time, since we have 2 people not done, and I am going to be offline for at least 6 hours, and I am not sure about Parone availability, but I know he is usually offline at this time IIRC.

Honestly I am not sure about base research numbers, but something I did notice, which I apparently had wrong all along, or is a bug.  The research value of a caster does not increase when it gains paths from its random picks, and also in Dom4, the disability "inept learner X" is already figured into the research value when you are looking at it in the recruit screen.

Also whats yall's opinion on the new range limitations of the ritual spells.  I think its kind of interesting, especially some of the heavier attack spells that have like a 3 province range.  Definitely makes long range spells a little more risky, and also interesting because now they have sites that give X bonus range to Y types of rituals.

[Haerdalas]

Makes sense, though I hope the two remaining players do try to get it in for the original time.

[Bronwell]

Thanks for the additional time, but I am working on mine now and will have it in before the original time (which is about an hour from now).

[Haerdalas]

Well, Good fight Ctis, hope to play with you again sometime.

[alastair]

I cannot believe my idiot communion cooked themselves by casting high-fatigue spells AFTER jotunheim's army had been almost completely routed.

[parone]

it happens...

[Bronwell]

Thanks for the game, Ogrims.  I look forward to seeing you in a future Dominions 4 game.

Wingedflamez, as to research from random path.. it's already figured into the recruit path in Dominions 3 and Dominions 4 as far as I know.  It is not always going to be correct, because it includes fractions.  Mystics, etc., with lots of 50% paths will have all the fractions added together to give a research number in the recruit screen that may end up being way off.  So 4 50% paths would count as 2 research, but could be 0-4.  I can't tell if this is what you are referring to.

As to the range limitations, I think it is a brilliant addition which will add a whole new layer of strategy.  I love anything that adds to the depth of Dominions.  My favorite part of the game is that there is no one way to play, and every strategy has multiple counters.

[Wingedflamez]

I think it only counts for full percentages. Like you said 4 50s is 2 and 1 100 and a 10 is one. I will do some extra testing on a fresh game but o thought that my sorcerers who proved their extra 10% had the same research as those that didnt.

But the idea of them already being worked in makes sense.

[Haerdalas]

So what is the new baseline then? what is it that the path level bonuses are getting added to? I seems to vary, but one thing that shows is that thus far any mage who takes 2 turns to build seems to have a much higher base research.

[Bronwell]

The only one I have looked at in detail is the new MA Pan Carrion Woods version.  All of their mages, including the 2 turn Panic Apostate use a formula of 5 base research (compared to 2 base in Dom 3) +1 research/path level.

[Wingedflamez]

Ok. So after looking a bit deeper. I discovered what was wrong. I was not taking into account the factor of experience, which gives 1 research per level of experience, and also the fact that I have drain 3 scales, which throws everything off. So I think that the shinyu sorcerers have a base research of 2, unless priest levels count in which case they have a base of 1.

[Bronwell]

Drain 3 is -3 research in dom 4.