Rome II

[LongBlade]

I'm very frustrated with the Army limits.  I control approximately 35 settlements...thats all of Italy, all surrounding islands, part of Africa, all of Iberia/Hispana and much of Germania and Gaul, yet I can only field nine (9) armies based on my level of Imperium.  What gives?  Nine armies simply is not enough to maintain and/or protect all of this territory...much less continue expansion.  I think that with all this ground in my hands, I would be able to field and support more than 9 armies, and I certainly have the gold to do so.

As an aside, I like how a lot of the smaller gaelic and germanic tribes that I'm at war against, who cannot stand against me militarily, are hurting me through acts of sabotage and subversion.  Enemy agents are really effecting my ability to move and generate income...I'm pretty impressed with the AIs use of agents in this game...its better than any other past Total War title.

Armies are capped depending on how much territory you control. One day you'll kick in the door of a province and you'll get a magic message saying that you've managed to expand your imperium to the point where you deserve three more generals.

It's arbitrary.

Personally I've found that, as I expand, I start to find myself shorthanded of help. But by the time I had twelve (or is it nine? - I haven't played in a couple of weeks) armies on hand I was pretty much able to expand at my own pace.

[Gusington]

IIRC once you possess 12 provinces you get bumped up to 9 armies max.

[Jarhead0331]

IIRC once you possess 12 provinces you get bumped up to 9 armies max.

The number of armies I could field did not expand from 9 to 12 until I controlled 42 provinces.  I don't think it would make sense to get the ability to field 9 armies at 12 provinces.  Are you sure about that?  I simply do not remember how many provinces I controlled when I was first capable of fielding 9 armies...

[Gusington]

Maybe 15...it's been a couple of weeks. But I do remember the number of provinces not being very high for 9 armies.

[MengJiao]

Maybe 15...it's been a couple of weeks. But I do remember the number of provinces not being very high for 9 armies.

  I always felt like I didn't have quite enough armies.  I tried filling in with garrisons, allies and agents and fleets, with varying results

[Gusington]

Yeah me too. I think that is appropriate and by design, because most players complain about being able to steamroll the map in other TW games.

[Jarhead0331]

Yeah me too. I think that is appropriate and by design, because most players complain about being able to steamroll the map in other TW games.

That is not what the army limits was meant to address. Rather, it was intended to prevent the spamming by the AI of large numbers of small armies.

[Gusington]

Doesn't it work both ways, for small army spamming by the AI and preventing human steamrolling of the map?

[Jarhead0331]

Doesn't it work both ways, for small army spamming by the AI and preventing human steamrolling of the map?

Not really...I never saw human "steamrolling" as a problem.  Human armies were limited by costs of recruiting and costs of maintenance.  In any event, I'm just repeating what I read from one of the devs somewhere.  The purpose of limiting the number of armies was to reduce the prevalence of multiple small AI armies.

[Nefaro]

Doesn't it work both ways, for small army spamming by the AI and preventing human steamrolling of the map?

Not really...I never saw human "steamrolling" as a problem.  Human armies were limited by costs of recruiting and costs of maintenance.  In any event, I'm just repeating what I read from one of the devs somewhere.  The purpose of limiting the number of armies was to reduce the prevalence of multiple small AI armies.

Sounds like a dirty workaround for an AI that doesn't know how to concentrate it's forces.   :-[

[Jarhead0331]

Doesn't it work both ways, for small army spamming by the AI and preventing human steamrolling of the map?

Not really...I never saw human "steamrolling" as a problem.  Human armies were limited by costs of recruiting and costs of maintenance.  In any event, I'm just repeating what I read from one of the devs somewhere.  The purpose of limiting the number of armies was to reduce the prevalence of multiple small AI armies.

Sounds like a dirty workaround for an AI that doesn't know how to concentrate it's forces.   :-[

Workaround? Yes. Dirty? I don't think so. I think having army limits based upon size of empire or a factor of "imperium," to put it in game terms, makes sense and lends a flavor of authenticity. My only complaint is that at least for my mid-game era, the army limits were too strict. I felt that my empire was quite large enough and wealthy enough to support more an 9 armies. I'm now, finally, capable of fielding 12, and right as I'm preparing to start recruiting? Civil war...

[Sir Slash]

Agreed. The army limits as well as agent limits feels more like a barrier than a design challenge. I don't think the AI handles it too well either. That maybe why their armies are running between fighting battles and putting down Public Disorder.

[MengJiao]

Agreed. The army limits as well as agent limits feels more like a barrier than a design challenge. I don't think the AI handles it too well either. That maybe why their armies are running between fighting battles and putting down Public Disorder.

  Well, if i were designing games about the ancient world they would be pretty different: one month turns, focused on critical moments in smaller areas -- Hey!  Like Shogun2 FOTS!

  It would be hard to improve on the sea battles in Rome II, but the land battles could have a lot more engineering.  Plus, by 272 BC the West and the Levant are very complex: huge populations, massive deforestation, massive erosion, gigantic technological changes coming fast.

  Starting a game in an earlier, simpler, less ecologically obliterated world might be interesting.  The Middle Bronze Age, in say 1700 BC with Hamarabi and the Eygptians not yet at the New Kingdom, and the Minoans.  Armies at that time might actually have been about what a game system could represnt man-per-man and camp-follower-by-camp follower.  Religious innovations would propagate through a less dense ideological environment.  Small technical changes (for example -- riding horses at all) could mean a lot.

[Nefaro]

Doesn't it work both ways, for small army spamming by the AI and preventing human steamrolling of the map?

Not really...I never saw human "steamrolling" as a problem.  Human armies were limited by costs of recruiting and costs of maintenance.  In any event, I'm just repeating what I read from one of the devs somewhere.  The purpose of limiting the number of armies was to reduce the prevalence of multiple small AI armies.

Sounds like a dirty workaround for an AI that doesn't know how to concentrate it's forces.   :-[

Workaround? Yes. Dirty? I don't think so. I think having army limits based upon size of empire or a factor of "imperium," to put it in game terms, makes sense and lends a flavor of authenticity. My only complaint is that at least for my mid-game era, the army limits were too strict. I felt that my empire was quite large enough and wealthy enough to support more an 9 armies. I'm now, finally, capable of fielding 12, and right as I'm preparing to start recruiting? Civil war...

I called it "dirty" due to numerical limits driving AI behavior that should probably be a staple in it's logic.  I don't think it's an ideal way to go if AI programming was the main intent for using it.  Perhaps it really wasn't.

There should be a limit on the number of armies you can field, in that period for monetary, manpower, and supply reasons.  Not because the AI keeps trying to make far too many understrength armies that get beaten piecemeal.

However, if it's working better than just letting the AI do the latter as it normally would, it's an improvement.  That behavior was really bad in the TW games before Shogun 2.

[Sir Slash]

BIG NEWS!!! Steamworks now has their Rome 2 workshop for mods up and running. The only mods listed at present are Radious' mods but he has created 3 new unit packs including a just released one for Parthia( 14 new units) a total of 77 new units for all factions. Other mods will follow soon. All you need to do is subscribe to the mod of your choice and it's automatically installed and ready at your next play. Check the reviews first to see what others think of them and if any compatibility problems have been noted.