2013 Combat Mission Poll

[JudgeDredd]

Which game?  Cmbn has never had the option to unlicense, which ill agree is stupid.  However I've installed it on numerous systems without much hassle beyond having to request an additional key once.  That was annoying, but it was a quick process to get.

I have CMSF, Marines, Brits, NATO, Afghanistan, CM:BfN v2, CM:BfN CW and CM:FI installed. I read the manual (I guess it was from CM:BFN or FI) about uninstalling and (unbeknownst to me) it wasn't the same instructions for all games. When I came to reinstall my games, the Shock Force boys didn't want to work - the whole collection.

I think I was back up and running in a couple of days - but that really is not the point. I think I posted their response on here somewhere - but whilst it wasn't rude - it certainly wasn't that pleasing to read. Something about if you do it again you might have to re-buy the products - then there was a bit of a back peddle about they hadn't ever charged anyone for the games again because they inadvertently didn't uninstall the product correctly - but the implication was there that it's their right to do so.

Personally I thought rather than have me hassle you, why not just allow me to install my freaking game I bought from you. But there you go. I think that's a bit simple.

And my highlight in bold in your post - it never bothered me before and I was quite happy to plod along with their products and their DRM. Then It affected me and I thought "That's it". So - that is it for me. I explained to whomever it was I was speaking to in the tech support about it and said, basically, it's the paying customers that are affected by their DRM - not the the people that steal their products and that I don't see why I should be punished for paying for their game.

Whilst the highlight seems to be on my dislike of their DRM - I should point out I play other games with other kinds of DRM - and when their DRM affects me in the way BF's did, I'll look elsewhere. If the PC game pool dries up I've always got my scale modelling and board games to play. I don't have to give money to a company that treats me like a thief.

Rant over  ;D

[Michael Dorosh]

I have CMSF, Marines, Brits, NATO, Afghanistan, CM:BfN v2, CM:BfN CW and CM:FI installed. I read the manual (I guess it was from CM:BFN or FI) about uninstalling and (unbeknownst to me) it wasn't the same instructions for all games. When I came to reinstall my games, the Shock Force boys didn't want to work - the whole collection.

I think I was back up and running in a couple of days - but that really is not the point. I think I posted their response on here somewhere - but whilst it wasn't rude - it certainly wasn't that pleasing to read. Something about if you do it again you might have to re-buy the products - then there was a bit of a back peddle about they hadn't ever charged anyone for the games again because they inadvertently didn't uninstall the product correctly - but the implication was there that it's their right to do so.

I think Keith over at VGG had the experience you are talking about re: Shock Force?

http://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/19365/why-customer-service-matters

Don't know if this rings a bell or not.

This past weekend, I decided to try my hand at Shock Force + the bundle and installed it on my computer. My World at War: Into the Breach writeups and receiving World at War: Counterattack in the mail had re-ignited my interest in modern conflict. Heck, I even tried my hand at Steel Beasts Professional (Personal Edition) again (which is amazing for treadheads if you've never scoped it out).

Unfortunately, when I attached my drive where I had saved my bundle from Battlefront ... it was dead. No flashing lights. No nothing. I pulled the drive from the enclosure and tried it in another enclosure only to find that nothing appeared on the drive!

I immediately went back to the Battlefront website and logged in. They had a record of my purchase. I attempted to download the game and received a reminder saying that my download had expired. I understood. It had been 2 years and they're not running a download service for pirates.

So ...

I contacted their Help Desk. Since Wednesday I've been told that I need to pay $5 for a game I already own to get access to the download because, I didn't back it up ... which I had described that I had done.

I don't mind paying the $5, but the principle of the thing completely rubbed me the wrong way.

[Sir Slash]

Hey Judge. Do you play real-time or turn-based? I play turn-based and what works for me is a very slow recon approach and when I start taking fire, re-wind the action until just before the fire comes your way and cruise around the map listening over and over for the sound of where the fire came from. Generally you can get a real good idea about where the enemy is and sometimes what is shooting at you. Then use any unit that can area fire into close to that point to suppress the fire. It's slow but it works. You can also try an easier level. I've had to do that after the last CMFI DLC because the AI now seems to have learned to hold it's fire better until you're close. The biggest mistake I make is getting in too big a hurry. Hope it helps. :)

[MengJiao]

Did you ever play the earlier CM games JD (CMBO, CMBB, CMAK)?

Yes. Enjoyed quite a few battles on them.

I certainly don't remember them being as unforgiving as the new system.

I started with 3x4 scout cars last night - nothing else. I checked the ground from ground level and saw where I wanted to place my scout cars so they could oversee the objective (it was my objective to recce) and BAM! BAM! - 2 down in flames within a short space of time...and not a SINGLE indication of where the fire came from. Not even a guess! Just 2 flaming heaps. When the first one was hit, I was hoping for some kind of indication as to direction of fire from the other two...but nope. Then the second got hit. I was lucky enough to reverse the 3rd out of there, moved him along the ridge and creep back up - and soon after - BAM! down he goes!

If I can't find the enemy without suffering 100% losses I don't really know what the game is trying to get me to achieve. I don't see what I could've done different given the AG video about OCOKA

Anyway - as per the norm, got bored, came out and moved on. Harder grogs might have stayed - but I try and game for fun. When it's a chore (and I don't mean losing...I mean when the gameplay seems to be missing) then I just move on. No doubt I'll fire it up in a month or two again.

Strangely enough I never found Shock Force as infuriating. Maybe I should just stick to that.

  My experiences with CM2 have been very different.  For example, early on in a canned scenario I accidently moved an entire company of paratroopers into a town (Vireville or something).  It looked like the end as about a hundred little dudes lined up and came charging into town packed into two roads.  They are all dead, I said to myself.  Luckily something knocked out a couple of jerry machine guns in town (my mortars?  rifle grenades?  My MGs?  I don't know) and the jerry mortar barrage hit where all those guys had been -- not where they were -- and I said to myself -- what a fantastic game!

[GJK]

Did you ever play the earlier CM games JD (CMBO, CMBB, CMAK)?

Yes. Enjoyed quite a few battles on them.

I certainly don't remember them being as unforgiving as the new system.

...

Strangely enough I never found Shock Force as infuriating. Maybe I should just stick to that.

Do you enjoy the newer CM engine that much more than the predecessor, or is the earlier CM games just too dated?  I ask because as I mentioned, I *want* to learn to play CM:BN but I find that it just doesn't hold my attention like the earlier games do.  Again, I'm sure that there's an issue with me not being as familiar with the newer CM engine.  Still, I hear about the DRM scheme/issues and other points brought up and wonder why I should even bother with messing with buying/playing the newer engine when I'm comfortable and still enjoying the originals.  Thoughts?

[JudgeDredd]

Did you ever play the earlier CM games JD (CMBO, CMBB, CMAK)?

Yes. Enjoyed quite a few battles on them.

I certainly don't remember them being as unforgiving as the new system.

...

Strangely enough I never found Shock Force as infuriating. Maybe I should just stick to that.

Do you enjoy the newer CM engine that much more than the predecessor, or is the earlier CM games just too dated?  I ask because as I mentioned, I *want* to learn to play CM:BN but I find that it just doesn't hold my attention like the earlier games do.  Again, I'm sure that there's an issue with me not being as familiar with the newer CM engine.  Still, I hear about the DRM scheme/issues and other points brought up and wonder why I should even bother with messing with buying/playing the newer engine when I'm comfortable and still enjoying the originals.  Thoughts?

Well - when I used to play them (and they didn't get a lot of my attention, but I did enjoy them), I used to think "If only this game had an updated graphics engine". Somewhere along the way, it got a graphics update and, for me at least, the fun seemed to be stripped out.

Like I said, I enjoy the Shock Force ones. It would be easy to think it's just the setting, but I also find the scenarios extremely difficult (that's not necessarily the games fault) - I just don't get it I guess.

[JudgeDredd]

Hey Judge. Do you play real-time or turn-based? I play turn-based and what works for me is a very slow recon approach and when I start taking fire, re-wind the action until just before the fire comes your way and cruise around the map listening over and over for the sound of where the fire came from. Generally you can get a real good idea about where the enemy is and sometimes what is shooting at you. Then use any unit that can area fire into close to that point to suppress the fire. It's slow but it works. You can also try an easier level. I've had to do that after the last CMFI DLC because the AI now seems to have learned to hold it's fire better until you're close. The biggest mistake I make is getting in too big a hurry. Hope it helps. :)

Thanks Sir Slash. I've tried and tried to play WEGO and just can't get into it. Strangely enough I preferred the CMx1 stuff in WEGO...I loved the system. As soon as it went to Shock Force I was an RTS convert - having usually hated RTS. I just think the new engine and games play better in RTS.

But - I'll give it another try in WEGO. You never know. Something might click.

Thanks

[Sir Slash]

The originals had more right out of the box, all the units and many scenarios. But the new system has many new features like each soldier can react differently, engaging different targets or cowering, squads can be broken up into teams such as AT, assault or scouting. Buildings have real doors that can only be entered through or out of and have multiple levels not just 1st & 2nd,  troops in Half-Tracks will fire on enemies and engage multiple targets. The AI is still somewhat dumb on offense but a bear on defense. Still I miss the prediction of hit & destroy when targeting enemy armor and still no fire or flamethrowers. :-[

[MengJiao]

Thoughts?

  I can't speak for JD of course, but there's never any logical/rational reason for trying out and learning a new game system -- which is why the DRM stuff is such a pain -- right when you just want to drift into something BAM! -- stuff gets in the way.

  My liking for the CM2 games from Shock force to CMBN and CMBN:CW is not only irrational, but buried in the world of six-years ago.  Not only that but I'm not even playing any CM2 stuff until something East Front comes out.

  I think if you want to get into CM2 for the appropriately irrational reasons (whatever they are), Shock Force might be a good place to start.  The open terrain and superior US weapons makes it easier to grasp what is going on.

[Nefaro]

Which game?  Cmbn has never had the option to unlicense, which ill agree is stupid.  However I've installed it on numerous systems without much hassle beyond having to request an additional key once.  That was annoying, but it was a quick process to get.

I have CMSF, Marines, Brits, NATO, Afghanistan, CM:BfN v2, CM:BfN CW and CM:FI installed. I read the manual (I guess it was from CM:BFN or FI) about uninstalling and (unbeknownst to me) it wasn't the same instructions for all games. When I came to reinstall my games, the Shock Force boys didn't want to work - the whole collection.

I think I was back up and running in a couple of days - but that really is not the point. I think I posted their response on here somewhere - but whilst it wasn't rude - it certainly wasn't that pleasing to read. Something about if you do it again you might have to re-buy the products - then there was a bit of a back peddle about they hadn't ever charged anyone for the games again because they inadvertently didn't uninstall the product correctly - but the implication was there that it's their right to do so.

Personally I thought rather than have me hassle you, why not just allow me to install my freaking game I bought from you. But there you go. I think that's a bit simple.

And my highlight in bold in your post - it never bothered me before and I was quite happy to plod along with their products and their DRM. Then It affected me and I thought "That's it". So - that is it for me. I explained to whomever it was I was speaking to in the tech support about it and said, basically, it's the paying customers that are affected by their DRM - not the the people that steal their products and that I don't see why I should be punished for paying for their game.

Whilst the highlight seems to be on my dislike of their DRM - I should point out I play other games with other kinds of DRM - and when their DRM affects me in the way BF's did, I'll look elsewhere. If the PC game pool dries up I've always got my scale modelling and board games to play. I don't have to give money to a company that treats me like a thief.

Rant over  ;D

You and I think alike, in more ways than one. 

*Rant Continued*

Having such DRM, notably without an option to 'unlicense' it, is dickish enough without them vaguely threatening to make you purchase their crap all over again just because their nickle & diming expansions and paid-updates have an unnecessarily confusing install and online licensing. 

I could shaddap about their DRM if their general attitude towards customers was better.  Every time I see a post from BF it comes across poorly.  The re-purchase threat you received when requesting customer service support is typical of the attitude.

Gonna build a new rig this week and I have no idea how many net-licensed games I need to find and unlicense on my old machine.  That'll probably take me as long as building the new one.  >:(  Hell, I'll probably discover some titles I didn't even realize had online activation DRM, but at least nearly all of those allow you to reclaim one of your allowed installs when you tell it to.  I don't care so much about CM:BN anymore, but Battlefront still holds my SC:WWI license hostage.  I wish the developers had left BF before releasing that one.

[Bison]

The answer is very simple.  Don't buy their products if you don't like their policies.  I fail to see the struggle to be had with the decision.

[Nefaro]

The answer is very simple.  Don't buy their products if you don't like their policies.  I fail to see the struggle to be had with the decision.

No longer a struggle.  I'm not buying anymore CM from them.  Since the Strategic Command guys fled the place, things are actually looking up.

[Bison]

See ain't life easy?

[JudgeDredd]

The answer is very simple.  Don't buy their products if you don't like their policies.  I fail to see the struggle to be had with the decision.

It isn't a struggle Bison. I already said I decided to boycott their games - even though I have bought all their titles except Gustav and Market Garden!

I'm more annoyed at their attitude when I required assistance.

[bayonetbrant]

why does it seem like every mention of Combat Mission is followed by the initials "DRM" like any appearance of Slaak is always followed by "9/11 is a lie!" ?