World in Flames (Matrixgames) looking for beta testers (multiplayer)

[JudgeDredd]

lol - I'm BEHIND YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Grimnirsson]

They are playing to the board game boys. No problem with that if that's what they've identified their market as.

But that could be pretty much the problem. Gary already talked about how the board game wargamers (since I belong to this breed I can say I agree with him) look for something different than a PC port can provide. We want a certain level of transparency and control and I don't see this when I look at the pictures and the information they gave out so far. Learning complex boardgame consims is easier than to learn a complex PC game because the approach is different. I can study my thick ASL rulebook with all the tiny written rules and still can learn it quite easily, because I am in full control how to break down the massive amount of rules into something that works in my first scenarios. A game like WiF on the PC is a massive amount of rules behind a complex user interface and that's a huge obstacle. And a game this complex on the PC is most certainly having some issues with things that don't work or don't work right and all this gets in the way when I want to learn the actual 'game' behind all the technical stuff. Somehow I don't feel being addressed as part of the 'market' because I come from the traditional wargaming corner...

[JudgeDredd]

^ interesting point - and in that case, I don't know who they are targeting.

But - as we're often told by Iain...they have the numbers. They have the data. They know what they're doing.

Who am I to argue. I'm just a gamer with money in my pocket that they don't want  :P

[undercovergeek]

its not a question of money being no option - if i needed it that much id get it - i just dont think its the game for me. Me and 5 friends with a crate of beer in a garage all weekend im all for - but a very lonely, soulless experience sat at your own pc with another guy on the side of the country/world

the massive advantage (if it does this) is the hard coded rules - JJdenver tried to teach barthheart and me over skype how to play and its massive to learn and then there is the 'you cant move that tile there this turn because XXX penalty from last turn', alpine troops move at 100% thru mountains, desert troops do not, planes take off with a 50% penalty in combat if blah blah blah...... IF thats all coded in and IF the UI tells you why you cant do A, or B or C it would be a brilliant learning tool for the board game or the PC game if and when it gets an AI - but its still an awfully pricey game

i wish good luck to all those guys who get it because theyve waited long enough, and i hope its what they wanted

[jomni]

Might as well ship the game counters.  You got the hard copy map and manuals already.  And computer software for remote play and rules enforcement.
Imagine setting up the map and counters in your "command center".  Then log into the computer to resolve turns against your opponent.  Then re-position the counters on your wall and dream of it the whole night while you wait for the next turn.

[GJK]

One of my "gripes" or turn-off's or what every you want to call it for PC games is the lack of ability to see the entire map and to take the whole situation in at once (this includes VASSAL as well).  With this PC version of WiF being global, that means a LOT of scrolling or jump mapping.  And as Grim says, you have an already very complicated wargame (WiF) to learn along with a very intricate looking GUI.  Sure, the game may reinforce the rules but what all does that mean?  Does it "beep" at you if you try to do an illegal move or does it give you a rules reference as to why you can't do a particular action at this particular time?  I suspect that a lot of new players who buy the game will be hearing a lot of beeping soon.

[Grimnirsson]

The Master himself in Essen

[undercovergeek]

who hell he?

[JudgeDredd]

I guess Harry Rowland - the creator of said game (boardgame?)?

[Grimnirsson]

Yes, the Lord of the final, final rules to the latest final version of final WiF (until a new version comes out) ;)

[jomni]

Another picture.





They are actually selling advanced autographed copies of the computer game at that event.

[Grim.Reaper]

I was reading some thread at the official forum and they mentioned the game can be played in solitaire mode.  I wish I had the patience and ability to be completely neutral when playing a solitaire game....just not sure how I could realistically do that without cheating:)  I know I would only be cheating myself, but can't imagine how I could draw a plan up for both sides and "forget" about it as I am playing both sides.

[ERutins]

Thought I should re-post some of my comments from the Matrix forum here:

"Hi guys,

The Essen release is a special early access release. Since Harry Rowland would be at the show, we wanted to make sure to have some copies there so fans could get his signature and so that he could get a look at the physical product as well.

This release is very much about the physical product, in that we wanted to give WIF tabletop gamers the benefit of all the work done to bring WIF to the computer as well. Hence the hard-bound Rules as Coded, with all the clarifications and errata from Harry that we built into the game, as well as the first ever global playable same scale map for WIF. Whether you play the computer game or not, these are very cool. You of course also have the hard-bound two volume full color Player's Manual for the computer game and the DVD with the computer version of WIF for solitaire or online multiplayer play, but the whole package is intended to be a very unique and exceptional product that has both computer and tabletop value.

The maps are part of the Essen package, but for the full release in November they will be optional. You'll be able to purchase the three hard-bound volumes with DVD as one product and the maps as another. This is also intended to make it possible for WIF players who only want the map to order that or to order an extra copy of the computer game or an extra copy of the map without getting two of both. The three hardbound volumes + DVD will be at a lower price (about half) than the Essen package which includes the maps.

The maps are also in 24 sections, so while you may not have the space to assemble all 21 feet by 9 feet, you can certainly use the sections that are most useful to you within a more reasonable space.

Regards,

- Erik "

"We looked at it this way - this is primarily a game for tabletop WIF players. It is also an awesome computer wargame just as it is an awesome tabletop wargame, but without an AI in the initial release, that's a hard hill for many primarily computer wargamers to climb, who are used to AI releases. The WIF community, as a primarily tabletop community, is also used to getting a good physical package for their money. The work that went into WIF development and keeping it faithful to the tabletop game was beyond anything we've ever done before. Development-wise, this is about ten normal games rolled into one.

So our first thought was how to do justice to this game and give the WIF community something special. The hard-bound volumes, the first hard-bound large full color volumes Matrix Games has ever released, are the first part. The biggest wargame map possibly ever printed is the second part. We feel those are a key part of doing this release right. Removing the hard-bound volumes, even though they are costly to print, would not have resulted in a significantly reduced price due to the time that this was in development. By doing this we actually reduced our profit margin per unit as the planned price point has always been in this range. We decided to add in the manuals and the map pack to make it the best release possible.

Regards,

- Erik "

[Toonces]

I would agree that targeting the boardgame player market is smart.

To put it another way, if this was a computer version of Pacific War or some other tabletop game that I really like, I'd have no problem getting a hardbound copy of the rules and such for it.

I bought the hardbound guide for Skyrim and it's beautiful, and it was about $50 if I remember correctly.

[Nefaro]

But - as we're often told by Iain...they have the numbers. They have the data. They know what they're doing.

Who am I to argue. I'm just a gamer with money in my pocket that they don't want  :P

;)