World in Flames (Matrixgames) looking for beta testers (multiplayer)

[Bison]

It's not really a game that interests me.  I will say that $99 for 3 hard cover bound rule books (500+ pages of rules) and the software; it doesn't really seem overly over priced.  The tax and shipping costs cannot really be pinned on Matrix.  I get the frustration, but they don't pass into law the VAT or import taxes on the behalf of governments.

[Ubercat]

Was it advertised in Strategy & Tactics or another magazine at the time?

It was definitely advertised in a magazine though I can't recall which one. There was also an American Civil War game of similar scale. Both games, I believe, were licensed from a company in the UK to be run on this side of the pond. I believe that the company was in White Plains, New York, although adding that to a Google search didn't help the last time I tried.

[JudgeDredd]

It's not really a game that interests me.  I will say that $99 for 3 hard cover bound rule books (500+ pages of rules) and the software; it doesn't really seem overly over priced.  The tax and shipping costs cannot really be pinned on Matrix.  I get the frustration, but they don't pass into law the VAT or import taxes on the behalf of governments.

I'm not blaming them for the taxes or the shipping. That isn't their fault and it wouldn't make ANY sense at all to blame them for those charges.

What IS their fault is KNOWING in advance that their European Distribution system has gone belly up and providing a game as PHYSICAL ONLY knowing that there will be considerable cost to their European customers.

As I said - those are empty pounds to me.

[JudgeDredd]

mmm...I think I would've popped the price if it was £80.

The people celebrating the price are the people who have been saying they'd pay whatever it takes. I'm always wary of that kind of statement...it gives an open pricing policy to a company. They are also big boardgame fans. I've noticed a big influx in Matrix and in particular that forum of "new blood".

£80 was a probably - but one thing in particular I HATE to pay is "empty pounds" - pounds that don't actually give me anything...postage, tax, customs...all of which are applicable here...and at a hefty £47 just for tax and postage (not including what customs would charge me)...I consider that and OUTRAGEOUS amount of wasted money.

When Matrix mentioned it was "all about the physical product" for this game, they forgot to mention "...even though our European friends will be screwed over".

It's cool. I have Blood and Bridges to get on with anyway and then a very enticing RAF Battle of Britain boardgame to learn.

Or you could read this post....

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/announcement.asp?id=38

You mean like I did here

Sorry boys...there's absolutely NO chance of me having a "review copy" to trial for you.

Step One - Check the Cost
£66.99...ok...not too shabby given the manuals in the product. So it might be on...

Step Two - Work Out Thieving Governments VAT
£13.40...so that's £80.39...well, I said if it was less than £80 I might be in still...and £80.39 is almost less than £80

Step Three - Go to Next Step and Check For "Extras"
WTF? £27.73 postage? So why no postage in Europe....found this
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/announcement.asp?id=38

So that's £94.72+20% tax = £113.66 - and then Customs charges on top.

Not a chance in hell Matrix. See ya.

Oh - and by the way Matrix - kudos on how to treat your European customers by having the closure of your European distribution centre and then offering your game as physical only....just slow clap all round.

Like I said, in several posts, the cost of "the product" wasn't that much of a shock to me. Those manuals look superb (though if there were going for longevity and they understand the use they are going to get (which they acknowledge) then I don't understand why ring bound was not going to be more durable...but I'm not a "book binding" expert - so I'll bow to their knowledge of the industry)...but £27+VAT is just a kick in the balls - and I hate being kicked in the balls  ;D

And everyone who thinks it's great for the price - that's cool. But you do have to remember that's for "half" a game. There is no AI here. The AI is going to cost you extra.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway...I've said my piece. I will leave this thread in the knowledge that I won't be owning it any time soon.

Good looking product (and I mean I LOVE the aesthetic feel of the game) and the manuals look superb...but I do not have £113 to drop on it - especially when £40 of that is wasted money.

[jomni]

Judge, this title is a book set with free software.
Not a software that comes with hard manuals.
The software has little value when taken alone. And you know that.

[JudgeDredd]

I knew I spoke too soon.  :(

That's simply not true, though many people suggest that now. It was only a few weeks ago when the price was alluded to that Matrix explained the cost of the game is taking into account the length of development and to make a profit.

I've seen over there that statement from some die hards.

And you missed my point. I'm not against the hard back manuals per se - the only reason I am against having to buy (being forced for NO reason) to buy the hard back manuals is Matrix now has no euro distribution centre which means by forcing gamers to buy the manuals, you are forcing delivery and taxes and potentially customs excise duty on those customers.

They've done that knowing their European distribution centre is down...so in this particular case, to their European customers, they've said we're forcing you to pay these extra charges - and I can't stress enough - for no apparent reason.

If they had a digital download only option, they could've spared their European customers £40+.

Now I am actually done.

[jomni]

No worries. I understand your point. A lot of cost involved with physical shipment. Wonder how much is it to send to Singapore?

I'm not sure if I'll buy this because I know that there is a high probability that the game will be shelved and ignored.  No one to play with but myself, I cannot commit to regularly meeting my opponents at a certain time.  Lack of AI may be ignored if there was PBEM.  But the game system is not PBEM friendly.   Lots of red flags for me.   Plus the shipping issue.

[spelk]

Seems to me like its an expensive replacement for a Vassel module. No AI kills it for me.

[JudgeDredd]

I'm pretty sure I would've caved. I was all over the shop and forum looking for release. Had that £28+VAT not been sprung, I'd likely have been £80 lighter in pocket today.

I should actually thank Matrix for saving me the money.

Jomni - do you live in Singapore then? That's quite cool, no?

As Matrix have always had a distribution centre in Europe (that I recall), their postage has always been very reasonable. I've never really given it a thought about other regions. Does a physical release from Matrix normally cost you much? If not - then it would suggest there's a distribution centre nearer to you than the US.

[Staggerwing]

Perhaps Matrix will eventually end up stocking it in a European center. They can't be happy that the cost is so prohibitive to the early side of the Pond and can't be deaf to all the groaning over there. Most likely they are just not ready with the needed space, distribution licenses, local permits, whatnot. Don't give up hope.  :)

[undercovergeek]

it looks like a new one opens in March

[jomni]

Jomni - do you live in Singapore then? That's quite cool, no?

Yes I do.  It's not cool but hot.   ;D ;D ;D

[JudgeDredd]

Could've all been avoided (for others) if they offered Digital Only as an option.

I say others, because I would have wanted those manuals with my game

[undercovergeek]

the weird thing is from reading the forum over there is the game comes with it all on PDF as well - so for all those who simply want a game disc there is no option to provide this facility - theres some poor guy who will pay the full price and has said keep the manuals - he just wants the game

im still troubled by the 'its such a complicated deep game we just had to, simply had to, include these awesome manuals'

no

you

didnt

[Staggerwing]

I just think it all boils down to the game not being meant for computer war gamers, per se. It is primarily meant to be marketed to board gamers who think nothing of dropping a hundred or hundred and fifty dollars on a monster game. There's probably some marketing augury that tells Matrix that if a D/L only option is included then most of the Big-Time Board game spenders will get turned off somehow. Who knows? ???