WitP:AE

[JudgeDredd]

Yeah - I think the information is there - it's just not that handy.

It does make me wonder - why create a program that's difficult to use. I'm not talking about micro-management here - just making you work for info. For example...and just a wee example...one of the tasks is to get more points than the enemy. And one way you do that is to go after bases. A base has a value to the Japs and a value to the US. Now - why on earth would the developer of a game that had that mechanic NOT put in place a hotkey that allowed you to turn on and turn off those values?

Sure - it would make the map busy - hence being allowed to switch it on and off. (If that is in there, then I apologise - but I've been looking for ages and can't see the option)

I design interfaces for databases. I create programs with Windows front ends to allow people to see and manipulate data in databases - that's my job. I regard myself as a good programmer, but I also regard myself as an excellent creator of interfaces. My users don't notice my interface - because they don't have to. It's not meant to fight them and it's not meant to be obtuse - it's meant to be transparent.

I think GG is a fantastic creator of games - he's just not very good at interfaces.

I did manage to get a couple of Aussie units transferred to another command that I could transport (after switching them to Strategic - thx for that tip)...however, whilst they both had a load value of 3500, they didn't seem to want to load onto my xAPs (each with a load capability of 4600)

I'm sticking with this though - at least for the time being  ;D

[SgtRock]

Yeah - I think the information is there - it's just not that handy.

It does make me wonder - why create a program that's difficult to use. I'm not talking about micro-management here - just making you work for info. For example...and just a wee example...one of the tasks is to get more points than the enemy. And one way you do that is to go after bases. A base has a value to the Japs and a value to the US. Now - why on earth would the developer of a game that had that mechanic NOT put in place a hotkey that allowed you to turn on and turn off those values?

Sure - it would make the map busy - hence being allowed to switch it on and off. (If that is in there, then I apologise - but I've been looking for ages and can't see the option)

I design interfaces for databases. I create programs with Windows front ends to allow people to see and manipulate data in databases - that's my job. I regard myself as a good programmer, but I also regard myself as an excellent creator of interfaces. My users don't notice my interface - because they don't have to. It's not meant to fight them and it's not meant to be obtuse - it's meant to be transparent.

I think GG is a fantastic creator of games - he's just not very good at interfaces.

I did manage to get a couple of Aussie units transferred to another command that I could transport (after switching them to Strategic - thx for that tip)...however, whilst they both had a load value of 3500, they didn't seem to want to load onto my xAPs (each with a load capability of 4600).

I'm sticking with this though - at least for the time being  ;D

WITP AE was created from WITP which was created from Uncommon Valor, many, many things were added to WITP/AE. The screens are done pixie by pixie, just changing the placement of text and/or button is a nightmare. Speed, memory requirements don't allow the use of standard development tools like MS Visual studio or others standard tools, they just don't work for game development.

Don't use AP's for transport missions, save them for Amphibious missions, you next problem will be with unloading troops assigned to a transport mission at a small ports, it will take forever. Many of the WITP AE players have been playing the game from the days of Uncommon Valor and don't even notice the arcane rules or interface issues. When transporting troops you also need room for food, ammo, etc. so you also need more transport capacity than just the troops. Just like in a real war, logistics is half the battle, and logistics is half the game in WITP/AE. Why do you think the US has 300 bases all over the world?

[undercovergeek]

^

Beat me to it - youvgot guns and butter to fit on the ships too JD - and FWIW I never changed the stance of my troops - when they get off again they will need changing back and it takes a few days

[MengJiao]

Yeah - I think the information is there - it's just not that handy.

It does make me wonder - why create a program that's difficult to use. I'm not talking about micro-management here - just making you work for info. For example...and just a wee example...one of the tasks is to get more points than the enemy. And one way you do that is to go after bases. A base has a value to the Japs and a value to the US. Now - why on earth would the developer of a game that had that mechanic NOT put in place a hotkey that allowed you to turn on and turn off those values?

Sure - it would make the map busy - hence being allowed to switch it on and off. (If that is in there, then I apologise - but I've been looking for ages and can't see the option)

I design interfaces for databases. I create programs with Windows front ends to allow people to see and manipulate data in databases - that's my job. I regard myself as a good programmer, but I also regard myself as an excellent creator of interfaces. My users don't notice my interface - because they don't have to. It's not meant to fight them and it's not meant to be obtuse - it's meant to be transparent.

I think GG is a fantastic creator of games - he's just not very good at interfaces.

I did manage to get a couple of Aussie units transferred to another command that I could transport (after switching them to Strategic - thx for that tip)...however, whilst they both had a load value of 3500, they didn't seem to want to load onto my xAPs (each with a load capability of 4600)

I'm sticking with this though - at least for the time being  ;D

It takes a while (three days I think) for troops to get in and out of different modes.  So you can switch to Strategic on day x and on day x+3 they actually are available to load.

[JudgeDredd]

Fair point Sgt Rock.

And thanks for the other tips peeps. I am skimming the manual at various sections (no point in me reading it - I have quite a bad short term memory and so there's no benefit to me reading a manual)

[JudgeDredd]

I will say again though - regarding the interface - when the turn is over - there's no processing power going on. No resources are going to be eaten up displaying information to the user. So my dismay with the game (and GG's games in general) is not just the lack of information - but the difficulty in finding it.

So I'm not stuck on WitP:AE I'll give you another example - GG:WaW (World at War). I remember having it and wanting to move a naval unit to a sea region. The message I got was "Cannot Move There". Now - this is precisely the kind of "interface" thing I'm talking about. Gary knows I can't move there. The game knows why I can't move there. I now know why I can't move there. But Gary and the game are the only ones who know WHY I can't move there.

So if Gary knows and the game knows, why not tell the user why? Nope. You've got to wade through the manual to find out why.

That's what I'm talking about from an interface perspective along with layout. Having to go elsewhere to find out what you want to know.

But - I take the point it was built on an old codebase.

Just thinking about how I'm going to win (by collecting points from bases) makes my head shiver because the only way to find that information out is to click on each one. My lack of understanding of the game may be showing here - because it might be in the campaign you don't have the ability to pick and choose what you go after. It could be that those big bases are few and far between and you have to hop through various other little atolls in order to springboard to them...I don't know

But as a gamer - it makes total sense to me that a gamer would want to see that information at the drop of a hat!

But he's not the only one to do it. CMANO suffers from interface issues also - and that's brand spanking new. I hate all those platform rings and wonder why the hell I can't turn specific ones on and foff. For example I want to see the bingo fuel range for my aircraft. Nope. I want to turn off all rings and just see anti air defense rings for my pickets ships - one at a time - nope.

The whole wargaming genre suffers from great code bases and bad interfaces.

[Herman Hum]

The whole wargaming genre suffers from great code bases and bad interfaces.

They almost need a two part process: one group to design the engine and another to create the UI to accommodate the folks the way they want to play it.

[Yskonyn]

Yes fair points and exactly my trouble with playing these games.
Still, I am going to keep at it and try to become a functional player in AE. I shelled out serious cash on it so it deserves some additional effort to get it in my head.
Because I certainly can see how this game is super rewarding if you actually know whats going on.
Especially against a human player!

[jomni]

Judge. You will like World in Flames it is very transparent and will tell you what you can and cannot do. It will hold your hand through every phase with very clear options and forms.

[JudgeDredd]

**I am not for turning** ;D

[SgtRock]

The whole wargaming genre suffers from great code bases and bad interfaces.

They almost need a two part process: one group to design the engine and another to create the UI to accommodate the folks the way they want to play it.

Already Done
War in the East has the best interface of any Gary's games, his games are no longer a one man operation.

[Herman Hum]

I've tried WitE and, while better than WitP, it is still an exercise in chasing mouse-clicks all around the screen. 

The few hotkey commands will bring up information windows but, as far as I can remember, not a single executable command can be issued via hotkey (just like WitP).  :(

[JudgeDredd]

So I fired this up to continue my Guadalcanal scenario - and I see some bases with a Red and a Yellow exclamation mark.

I cannot find anywhere in the manual what those represent. I've read the BASES section and searched the manual for "yellow" - all instances found did not relate to the exclamation marks.

Looking at the bases showing the exclamation marks, all I can deduce is

• Yellow Exclamation Mark - Supply excess (more supplies present than required)
• Red Exclamation Mark - Supply deficiency (less supplies present than required)

Can anyone clarify?

And WTH is this not in the manual? And if it is, why does "exclamation" and "yellow" bring up NO results and no results pertaining to the object?

[undercovergeek]

Red is definitely right, yellow I can't remember.... check the base and its size if it's a size 3 base with 100k tons of supplies it's probably right

[smittyohio]

From the interface addendum doc:

6.2 Yellow Exclamation Point - This will appear when a base is below 2X needed supply, but above the bare minimum supply needed.
6.3 Red Exclamation Point - The base either had a partisan attack due to low garrison, or the supply level is below the required level and is reaching a critical situation.

I wouldn't have thought to look there, but I found a post on the matrix site referencing it for a similar question.