any suggestions on a very complex war game?

[jnpoint]

Hei. I would appreciate some help.

I'm looking for a new turn-based war game. I want it to be as complex as possible with a lot of possibilities, unit orders etc.. I'm most interested in ww2, but it's not a must.

I already have "Gary Grigsby's War in the East", but for some unknown reason I just don't like it. I was looking at Schwerpunkt' and 'John Tiller' (have none of their games), but can't make my mind up.

Any suggestions? 

[Jarhead0331]

War in the Pacific would be my first choice, but since you do not like WitE, WitP may not be the best option.  How about Hearts of Iron III? This one is fairly complex and has a pretty steep learning curve. It is not "turn-based" in the traditional sense, but it is pausible and can be slowed down, as well.

Although outstanding games, I would not recommend the Tiller titles based upon your requirements. They tend to be more on the tactical level and are not really what I would consider complex.

[Bison]

I'd also consider the Command Ops Series.  http://www.matrixgames.com/store/377/  You can get into a depth of planning and unit orders.  The added bonus is that the AI is very formidable. 

[Barthheart]

Guns of August?

Empires in Arms?

[chemkid]

i was looking for something similar, but me, i like gary's games very much, though... anyway, i thought i had found it with world in flames - but since the ai-opponent is far from finished and the single player experience is still missing something, i found lot's of challenge with tiller's panzer campaigns - yes, old stuff... no 'new' game but still.
if you have the time and patience you should try the mius-demo! hoi3 with the latest dlc 'their finest hour' is great, too - not turn-based... you should check paradox-forum and search for the black-ice mod, that's something special!! ;-)

good luck!
chem!

[sandman2575]

I'd strongly recommend the Decisive Campaigns games -- especially Case Blue (check out the Matrix games site).  Like you, I found GG's WitE very disappointing.  DC Case Blue is not as complex as WitE, but I'd say it's still a fairly 'groggy' game, and one of my faves.  If you want hex-based, turn-based WW2 eastern front, again, I'd strongly recommend giving DC a look.

[Rayfer]

Since WW2 is not a must....I would suggest Matrix's American Civil War 2.  It is quite detailed with production, diplomacy, recruitment, army and corp building, managing generals, etc. etc.  And it is turn based.

[Jarhead0331]

Since WW2 is not a must....I would suggest Matrix's American Civil War 2.  It is quite detailed with production, diplomacy, recruitment, army and corp building, managing generals, etc. etc.  And it is turn based.

Let's give credit where credit is due! Its developed by AGEOD...matrix is just the publisher. If you're going to look beyond WWII, I'd say any game from AGEOD would be a great choice.

[jnpoint]

Thanks for the many suggestions. I have some AGEOD games, but I'm primarily looking for ww2 games. And I have DC, and I like it, but I just want to try something different.

John Tiller's squad games seems to be complex, or am I wrong?

[Toonces]

War in the Pacific should have all the complexity you could ever want in a wargame.

[Jarhead0331]

Thanks for the many suggestions. I have some AGEOD games, but I'm primarily looking for ww2 games. And I have DC, and I like it, but I just want to try something different.

John Tiller's squad games seems to be complex, or am I wrong?

The Squad Battles series is not complex, at all. They are very easy to learn (albeit difficult to master).

[Father Ted]

Combat Mission?  Maybe not a wargame per se, but it's WW2, pretty complex and can be turn-based.

I'd also recommend the Command Ops series.  Pretty in-depth in terms of orders and it's WW2.  Not turn-based, but you can pause whilst issuing orders.

[Toonces]

I feel compelled to state this one more time.  WitP:AE checks every one of the OP's boxes.  It's complex, lots of options and orders, and you can absolutely get buried in the weeds in details...everything from scheduling pilot training, to managing logistics for half the globe, to determining repair priorities at major ports.  It is micromanagement heaven.

And if you play the Japanese side you can manage war production as well, which is a game in itself.

No reason to compromise on turns or complexity when everything you want is already in a game, set in WW2, per your criteria.

8)

[z1812]

What exactly do you mean by complex? Do you like to micromanage? Do you want complex rules?

Does scale matter. Tactical, operational or grand strategy?

If you want to micro manage and you like squad level than then HPS/Tillers Squad Battles might be a good choice.

Combat Mission would is a great game and there are demos.

There is an older Platoon level game called the Campaign Series which has the Pacific Front, East Front, and West Front included. It is older but very good and still in development. A complete new overhaul will be available next week.

And there is Steel Panthers World War 2. Again an older game but very comprehensive.

All of the above are turned based, very comprehensive, with scenario editors and the like. All have PBEM and some online play. They are all classics and they have a large active fan base.

[jnpoint]

yes, I might not have been so precise. English is not my primary language so it's somehow difficult to be precise, but I'll try harder this time.

Yes I like micromanagement a lot and complex rules too (love chess). Although WitP is al about that, then it's just to much of a monster for me :) I know I ask for a complex game, but wow WitP looks sooo huge, I would never be able to finish it.

For me it is not important if it's squad level or not, but I like games that gives you time and/or opportunity to prepare a good defense and room to choose between several tactical considerations.