Breaking into the great Paradox abyss

[Dolan50]

I had the same problem with the Achtung Panzer Operation Star series by Graviteam in the beginning.
The manual sucked and the patching process was completely foreign to me.

One day I decided I was going to take a week off of work and not leave my PC(minus sleep and meals) till I mastered everything it took to get the game up and running and learn at least the basics.

The first couple days were pure frustration and I almost gave up a few times except for the fact that I was at least making some progress every day.

Perseverance is the only advice I have.
In this day and age of instant gratification,determination and staying power are your friends.

[undercovergeek]

I don't know who he is or how he has the time but there is a guy on you tube called Arumba and the library of let's plays he has is phenomenal.... he played as Venice for 70 videos had trouble with Austria so then played again as them for 70 videos, he has Spain, England, he posts a new video every 3 hours..... he has literally weeks of ck2 material for most nations and then the game of thrones mods.... I wouldn't have got into eu4 without him.... I'm not watching to be entertained but to learn..... why and how do I get the curia, why should I vassalise and not conquer, how to trade..... everything you need is in the vids, and instead of 90 minute slogs they're just 20 mins each.... I sacrificed an hour a night for a week and by the end of that I couldn't wait to get started

[Tuna]

I have the same problem.. waiting for stuff to happen.. LOL. .my 15 year old just plays for hours on end.. Everytime I go into the playroom, EUIV or CK2 or Vicky 2 is on his screen. He always seems to be doing other stuff at the same time (on his Ipad or texting with friends).

Maybe that is the secret, multi-task when playing these games, and it keeps you moving.

He loves history, I think in part from playing these games.

[bbmike]

I know 'read the manual' type advice is not too inspiring, but I have to highly recommend this in-depth guide to CKII out together by Meneth.  It's available as a PDF -- and is beautifully illustrated to boot:

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?599744-CK-II-Userguide-by-Meneth-and-Novapaddy

Nice, thanks for linking this! I'll have to try CKII yet again!

[MetalDog]

As much time as I sunk into HOI2, you would think HOI3 was a no brainer.  Not true.  I did my usual, play as a minor country to learn the fiddly bits, and went through a whole game learning very little and dissatisfied with the results.  I haven't gone back.  That makes me sad for two reasons 1) because I love HOI2 so much it hurts me to know that I can't wrap my head around 3 and 2) that I am like you JH in that I hate to lose at anything or perform poorly at something I know I should kick a$$ at.  The worst of the bunch is the Europa Universalis games.  I've tried 3 and the Northern Crown expansion and for the life of me, can't figure it out.  I haven't watched any Let's Play videos and I don't have the manuals for either game, so, there is that handicap, but I am reasonably intelligent and these games aren't rocket science.

As for CK2, I am not sure what about it kept me going back, but, I have played many enjoyable hours at it.  There are many things that bug the crap out of me about it, but, the story that it insinuates into your mind while you are playing certainly holds a charm to it that doesn't happen for me in other games.  I don't put in nearly as much time with it as I would like, but, my available time is not what it used to be.

And if you would like JH, as bob suggested, I would be glad to set some time aside to walk through these games with you.  My lack of knowledge is a handicap, but, I don't mind failing with a friend.  At least we can commiserate :)

[Jarhead0331]

And if you would like JH, as bob suggested, I would be glad to set some time aside to walk through these games with you.  My lack of knowledge is a handicap, but, I don't mind failing with a friend.  At least we can commiserate :)

Deal. Skype? Let's PM and work out the details...maybe we can try HOI3, too?

[W8taminute]

Modify message (  Re: Breaking into the great Paradox abyss )

[MetalDog]

And if you would like JH, as bob suggested, I would be glad to set some time aside to walk through these games with you.  My lack of knowledge is a handicap, but, I don't mind failing with a friend.  At least we can commiserate :)

Deal. Skype? Let's PM and work out the details...maybe we can try HOI3, too?

PM sent

[Greybriar]

I just can't seem to break into a new Paradox game these days despite my burning desire. I desperately want to learn EUIV, Crusader Kings II and HOI3.  Really, I totally want to play all three of them...I actually day dream about it. But then when I go to sit down to play, I end up loading and playing something much more mindless.

It is very frustrating to truly want to play something, but to then to never try due to a lack of patience in learning the system, and an unwillingness to play and do poorly as a result of being an inexperienced player. This has always been a real problem with me and gaming, I hate losing, I hate doing poorly. I hate losing territory, battles or men simply because I don't know how to play. I strongly feel this way, even though it is just a game. What is wrong with me?

Anyway, I've played paradox games to death before. Most notably, Hearts of Iron 2, EUIII and EU: Rome, so it is not as if I've never been able to learn the paradox system, and I know once I do, I really enjoy it.

Do any of you guys have any suggestions for getting over this hump? I desperately want to play these games.

I know exactly how you feel. Although I have purchased nearly all the Paradox games including the first Europa Universalis through Europa Universalis IV, I just can't get into the most recent releases. Unfortunately I have no suggestions.  :(

As much time as I sunk into HOI2, you would think HOI3 was a no brainer.  Not true.  I did my usual, play as a minor country to learn the fiddly bits, and went through a whole game learning very little and dissatisfied with the results.  I haven't gone back.  That makes me sad for two reasons 1) because I love HOI2 so much it hurts me to know that I can't wrap my head around 3 and 2) that I am like you JH in that I hate to lose at anything or perform poorly at something I know I should kick a$$ at.  The worst of the bunch is the Europa Universalis games.  I've tried 3 and the Northern Crown expansion and for the life of me, can't figure it out.  I haven't watched any Let's Play videos and I don't have the manuals for either game, so, there is that handicap, but I am reasonably intelligent and these games aren't rocket science....

I think EU2 and HOI2 were the high points of me being interested in actually playing Paradox games.

[Gusington]

I remember trying to get into the original EU...IIRC it came out at the same time as the original Shogun TW. I tried for a few weeks with EU but ultimately gave up. I just couldn't get it and then Shogun became an obsession. Since then, the only other Paradox game I've tried has been Victoria II, which also left me cold.

I want to try EUIV and EU: Rome because they look great but I think I will probably have the same reaction to them.

[TheCommandTent]

An alternate view....perhaps it's societal, something many of us suffer; the lure of instant gratification, which permeates all aspects of our world today.  We want the payoff, the kick, the juice right now, we don't want to wait, we don't want to cultivate the necessary skills and devote the necessary time to engage ourselves in these sort of more complex games (i.e. CK2, HOI3) in order to enjoy them. Maybe I'm over-complicating this, but then....? Just saying.

Oh I agree with this completely! That's why I force myself every once in a while to sit down and concentrate on a complex game. I feel I need to do this to keep me from becoming a mindless zombie..  :P

^ This

Especially because my generation is all about getting things instantly.

[Tuna]

You could always fire up some Rome II!  ;D

[ComradeP]

I haven't bought any Paradox titles, primarily due to fears that impressive as the nation building titles might be, the AI might break down completely after I invested dozens of hours into a game.

I do, however, understand the wall you're running into. As has been mentioned earlier, it might be due to a sort of instant gratification requirement that you might get after playing more casual games for a while before jumping into a complex game or wargame. Going from Panzer Corps to something like Tiller's Moscow '42 really doesn't work for me as I just can't muster the required focus.

Thinking about games in advance might also spoil the experience a bit, because the things you thought about might not be possible or might take a lot of time.

Maybe you could consider trying to think about what you want to achieve and how you're going to do it, shortly before turning on the PC and actually being able to do it. Don't force yourself to play a game and "enjoy" it though, that never works. There are days when more complex games are less enjoyable. If you're tired after a 50 hour or so week, carefully considering what the long term effects of a certain action might be in a complex game might not be what you need. On the other hand, it can also be relaxing.

[Rayfer]

An alternate view....perhaps it's societal, something many of us suffer; the lure of instant gratification, which permeates all aspects of our world today.  We want the payoff, the kick, the juice right now, we don't want to wait, we don't want to cultivate the necessary skills and devote the necessary time to engage ourselves in these sort of more complex games (i.e. CK2, HOI3) in order to enjoy them. Maybe I'm over-complicating this, but then....? Just saying.

Oh I agree with this completely! That's why I force myself every once in a while to sit down and concentrate on a complex game. I feel I need to do this to keep me from becoming a mindless zombie..  :P

^ This

Especially because my generation is all about getting things instantly.

I didn't see it as a generational thing at all....it includes many of us from all different generations; young, old and all that's in between.

[Jarhead0331]

I just played about 2 hours of HOI3. I replaced some ministers, started up some production, began research and played around with diplomacy. I've reduced IC waste, started influencing nations toward my faction and seem to generally be making progress. The main thing I did not even try to touch was my military OOB and organization. I know it is totally disorganized and ineffective as is, but I have no idea what my armies should look like organizationally, what kind of divisions and brigades they should be composed of, how they should be positioned and which HQs they should be attached to. I think this is my biggest hurdle in getting to be a semi-competent player. Most everything else seems generally intuitive.