Elder Scrolls Online (MMO)

[Nefaro]

^ That dude is full of NERD RAAAAGE!

It has been pretty standard for CE's and Expansions or DLC to offer pay-to-play races. Not sure the fuss of that.

Normally when you pay subscriptions you get access to all features of the game. Here they in essence tell you to first pay for the game, then pay subscription and on top also pay extra for certain features or in this case a race. Thats just not right

Not really.

WoW and most subscription based MMOs (if not all of them) DO require you to purchase expansions and the like.
It is only in F2P games that paying a monthly subscription offers similar benefits.

In anycase, this weekend another beta test is coming. And I've got a spare key if anyone wants.

WoW did not require you to pay extra, above and beyond the initial cost, on it's release.  That's why people are angry and I don't blame them a bit. 

Guild Wars 2 got away with this on release because it doesn't require a subscription at all, if only because they didn't provide you with enough slots to keep a character of each type.  There was still plenty complaining.  An MMO with a sub should include all release day races & classes IMO.

I'm sure they're doing it because they fully expect the usual MMO business on release.  A huge initial buy-in and people playing for the first few months, then a big drop-off in subscribers and going free-to-play eventually.  So they're squeezing your wallets for all they're worth during the initial excitement.  Makes sense from an earnings standpoint, but that still doesn't make what is essentially a bunch of separate release day DLC content, on a $60 game with monthly subscription fees, a popular idea.

[skeptical.platypus]

^ That dude is full of NERD RAAAAGE!

It has been pretty standard for CE's and Expansions or DLC to offer pay-to-play races. Not sure the fuss of that.

Normally when you pay subscriptions you get access to all features of the game. Here they in essence tell you to first pay for the game, then pay subscription and on top also pay extra for certain features or in this case a race. Thats just not right

Not really.

WoW and most subscription based MMOs (if not all of them) DO require you to purchase expansions and the like.
It is only in F2P games that paying a monthly subscription offers similar benefits.

In anycase, this weekend another beta test is coming. And I've got a spare key if anyone wants.

Requiring an initial purchase, monthly subscription, and a play-to-play races is a new combination in my experience. It's a rather blatant cash grab. I think that's the kerfuffle. It's like not even having the courtesy to offer a reach around. 

[son_of_montfort]

WoW did not require you to pay extra, above and beyond the initial cost, on it's release.  That's why people are angry and I don't blame them a bit. 

Actually, they did. The WoW:CE included several exclusive vanity items that could only be gotten with a CE purchase. The subsequent expansion packs all had CE versions that came with exclusive mounts.

F2P also charges a la carte for similar items (races, classes, ships, etc).

I'm not sure why TESO is getting lambasted for offering the Imperial Edition, given that this has been a standard practice (offering vanity items, in this case a "character look" from race, for extra cost) in the MMORPG industry.

[Bison]

Yeah I'm with SoM on this one.  I cannot think of an MMO that does offer different packages at initial or expansion purchase.  Hell Neverwinter had like a $200 package with exclusive vanity crap.

[Nefaro]

WoW did not require you to pay extra, above and beyond the initial cost, on it's release.  That's why people are angry and I don't blame them a bit. 

Actually, they did. The WoW:CE included several exclusive vanity items that could only be gotten with a CE purchase. The subsequent expansion packs all had CE versions that came with exclusive mounts.

F2P also charges a la carte for similar items (races, classes, ships, etc).

I'm not sure why TESO is getting lambasted for offering the Imperial Edition, given that this has been a standard practice (offering vanity items, in this case a "character look" from race, for extra cost) in the MMORPG industry.

WOW absolutely did not charge extra to unlock Classes at release.  That's what the complaints are about.  Nearly everything has some crappy vanity items in an overpriced "Collector's Edition" anymore but that doesn't lock people out of part of the gameplay like closing off whole character classes does.

[son_of_montfort]

TESO isn't charging for new "classes" (there aren't really traditional classes in that game), but rather an Imperial "race." Races are basically vanity items, even if they get minor bonuses.

So I'm not exactly sure what you mean by locking out character classes?

Also, F2P regularly lock out character classes for people who don't pay extra $$. Marvel Heroes is a prime example of limited gameplay choices based upon purchasing power.

[Tpek]

WoW certainly did charge extra.
They called DLC "Expansion packs" back in the day. :P
New races, new classes, everything.

All TESO charges you extra for is a "race" that consists of somewhat different aesthetics, and a barely noticeable skill adjustments.

[Yskonyn]

All TESO charges you extra for is a "race" that consists of somewhat different aesthetics, and a barely noticeable skill adjustments.

And therefore is a blantant money grab indeed. Or so it seems anyway.

[SgtRock]

This is why I like Guild Wars 2, pay once and that's it! Every thing else can be purchased with in game gold (just convert to gems) and no pay to win items. Free Stuff, If you have a Guild Wars 2 account, login today go the trading post and order the free 3 mini collector set. Free stuff and lot's of new content seems to help keep players.

Elder Scrolls Online was not even developed by Bethesada and I wonder does it have the content (not much new here) to keep paying customers more than a few months? The purchase of software (buy-in) is to guaranty cost recovery if the pay to play model fails. There are a lot of other next gen MMO's coming out this year, I'm not sure there's enough in ESO to make it.

[son_of_montfort]

WoW certainly did charge extra.
They called DLC "Expansion packs" back in the day. :P
New races, new classes, everything.

All TESO charges you extra for is a "race" that consists of somewhat different aesthetics, and a barely noticeable skill adjustments.

I'm left wondering if people here follow the MMORPG industry? WoW, as I said, charged extra for the CE and offered minor exclusive aesthetic items. They continued that model, between expansion packs, by having an online store where players could buy pets, mounts, and other aesthetic items with real money. Each of WoW's expansion packs had CE versions that offered similar exclusive aesthetic items.

My point - the model being used by TESO is not new.

And therefore is a blantant money grab indeed. Or so it seems anyway.

Sure it is. But they are running a business and they have found that there is consumer demand for exclusive aesthetic items. I'm not sure the harm here - if people don't want to spend extra for the Imperial race, then they shouldn't buy the CE.

If there is anything people should be irritated about it is the exclusive horse packaged with the CE. That is going to have a marked impact on the game for the haves versus have-nots due to reduced travel time and no need for in-game gold investment in a mount.

[Nefaro]

TESO isn't charging for new "classes" (there aren't really traditional classes in that game), but rather an Imperial "race." Races are basically vanity items, even if they get minor bonuses.

So I'm not exactly sure what you mean by locking out character classes?

Ehhh.. if it's just some mostly cosmetic thing then it's no big deal.  I got the impression from someone else that it was a whole character class with it's own play style, having never played the game myself.

Also, F2P regularly lock out character classes for people who don't pay extra $$. Marvel Heroes is a prime example of limited gameplay choices based upon purchasing power.

This game isn't free-to-play though. 

In light of the details, we have more to complain about GW2 since they didn't give you enough slots to have a character of each class.  That was fairly standard in past Western MMOs that had classes.  But GW2 also doesn't charge monthly fees or a similar "premium" time AFAIK so it was understandable that they have such paid unlocks in lieu of that.  If an MMO completely shuts out a class on release day, after charging $60, I think their customers would have a reason to complain.  It's the same debate as release day DLC.  In this case, it seems to just be some aesthetic "deluxe" edition add-on which isn't anything unusual. 

[Tpek]

@SoM, Marvel Heroes doesn't lock you out of all those characters. You just need to play enough to unlock them for free.
And in any case. Why should the game give you everything for free straight away? you're not living in a communist world you know :P

[skeptical.platypus]

TESO isn't charging for new "classes" (there aren't really traditional classes in that game), but rather an Imperial "race." Races are basically vanity items, even if they get minor bonuses.

So I'm not exactly sure what you mean by locking out character classes?

Ehhh.. if it's just some mostly cosmetic thing then it's no big deal.  I got the impression from someone else that it was a whole character class with it's own play style, having never played the game myself.

That may be my fault, because that's the impression I got -- and I'm pretty sure it's wrong.

I don't think the imperials in TESO are (for example)  similar to DDO's drow. I'm not sure how much of the imperial race in TESO is vanity (over other races). I do have a betakey, but never actually managed to play the game.

Fwiw, I'm not particularly offended by a perceived or actual money grab.

[Greybriar]

Does anyone know what type of DRM the retail boxed version of The Elder Scrolls Online will have?

[Bison]

Every game seems to be going to the F2P model.  I remember when I first started to play DDO.  That required you to buy the base game and you got all of the classes/races, but you had a monthly fee.  You also received the content updates/expansions for free.  Then it went F2P and classes, races, bags, banks, everything essentially became a micro-market transaction plus you paid for the expansions.  There was also the monthy fee option still that gave you all of the original content plus the bank, character slots and some other stuff, but you still had to buy the expansions, new races and classes.  I don't know.  It was a good fun time sink and worth the money at the time.  Ultimately I guess it comes down to a matter of how much your experience with the game is worth.  Hell I know some folk who are throwing down $50 a month on SWTOR to buy random packs with equipment, dyes, xp bonuses.  So it's really just the free market at work and that's a good thing.