Question about Matrix and WiF

[SgtRock]

Can unfinished software, ever meet customer expectations?

Seeing a product in Alpha/Beta state some are going to have expectations if this or that being added/changed in the game and even have a sense of entitlement because they already paid for it. The developer may not even have full control of what get's added/changed or finished if there's a publisher involved.

Just more reason not to sell unfinished software.

[undercovergeek]

Can unfinished software, ever meet customer expectations?

Seeing a product in Alpha/Beta state some are going to have expectations if this or that being added/changed in the game and even have a sense of entitlement because they already paid for it. The developer may not even have full control of what get's added/changed or finished if there's a publisher involved.

Just more reason not to sell unfinished software.

understandable but Matrix are selling WIF as a finished product

[JudgeDredd]

Exactly my point.

I know it's difficult for a company to say "This isn't finished - keep checking back" on a product page. But surely the absolute decent thing to do is exactly that? If customers mean anything to a company - surely that is the right thing to do?

I know Matrix are a decent company. I've been hanging around there since 2003 I think it was. They come across more often than not as a caring company willing to listen (sometimes...more often than not) which makes this a bit more stuck in my throat and hard to swallow.

Of course I have my own opinion of what's gone wrong - and I will keep that to myself because it is purely that - an opinion.

I'm trying desperately to stay away from analogies - but there are a plethora out there that apply!

I just think the decent thing to do is ward off potential purchasers until it's remotely working. Maybe even not ward off - but just inform in a clearer fashion rather than pointing to a 4 month old post. Otherwise it just seems like "come into my parlour said the spider to the fly".

[Queeg]

I think the rise of the digital distribution model, coupled with the concept of public beta patches and now even pay-for-beta programs, has led to developers being generally more willing to get a product out the door, finished or not.  There's just a general erosion, across the industry, of the idea that "it's not released until it's finished."  Now, it's more "it's released when it's probably not too broken to be fixed."

I'm really surprised to see this with Matrix, but it strikes me as just more evidence that even the most reputable companies are getting a bit lazy because of the ease with which they can deliver patches and the continued willingness of their customers to pay to be beta testers.   

[Bletchley_Geek]

Of course I have my own opinion of what's gone wrong - and I will keep that to myself because it is purely that - an opinion.

Well, the hamsters that run through the Internet Tubes feed on opinion. We don't want those poor hamsters to starve, do we? :)

Seriously, I do also have an opinion. I'm looking forward to the update that Erik has promised, before voicing it.

[Grim.Reaper]

One question I have often wondered....with it being so big and taking so long to complete a grand campaign.....during testing, were they ever able to test a complete campaign from start to finish?  I realize it would take a lot of effort, but if they didn't, how could they be so sure the game was solid in the late stages of the game?  I would be a little putt off if I found out they have never completed a grand campaign (although I would think they should have completed a lot more than 1) from start to finish and still released.

hhhmmm....

[SgtRock]

Can unfinished software, ever meet customer expectations?

Seeing a product in Alpha/Beta state some are going to have expectations if this or that being added/changed in the game and even have a sense of entitlement because they already paid for it. The developer may not even have full control of what get's added/changed or finished if there's a publisher involved.

Just more reason not to sell unfinished software.

understandable but Matrix are selling WIF as a finished product

Anyone who thought WIF was a finished product was wearing rose colored glasses, the project has been in trouble for years, just read the WIF forums. Matrix should have put more resources on it 2 years ago or canned it!

[JudgeDredd]

Can unfinished software, ever meet customer expectations?

Seeing a product in Alpha/Beta state some are going to have expectations if this or that being added/changed in the game and even have a sense of entitlement because they already paid for it. The developer may not even have full control of what get's added/changed or finished if there's a publisher involved.

Just more reason not to sell unfinished software.

understandable but Matrix are selling WIF as a finished product

Anyone who thought WIF was a finished product was wearing rose colored glasses, the project has been in trouble for years, just read the WIF forums. Matrix should have put more resources on it 2 years ago or canned it!

I didn't read every post up to release, but I'm pretty sure the general conception was that it was ready...cut down...but ready apart from the on release bombshell about Netplay. I don't remember reading any posts about anything being broke or not working correctly....but then my memory is pretty poor!

Was does seem very weird was how the Netplay bomb was dropped on the day...or at least the problem might have been known, but that the magnitude of the issue wasn't announced until the day. What happened through testing up to release that either so broke Netplay or made the Netplay issue suddenly jump out at them.

[undercovergeek]

Can unfinished software, ever meet customer expectations?

Seeing a product in Alpha/Beta state some are going to have expectations if this or that being added/changed in the game and even have a sense of entitlement because they already paid for it. The developer may not even have full control of what get's added/changed or finished if there's a publisher involved.

Just more reason not to sell unfinished software.

Anyone who thought WIF was a finished product was wearing rose colored glasses, the project has been in trouble for years, just read the WIF forums. Matrix should have put more resources on it 2 years ago or canned it!

thats easy for me, you and JD to say though - but ill bet theres 100s more out there, sons, daughters, mums and wives who hear on the grapevine their dads/husband favourite board game is now on PC, google it, find it at Matrix, click and buy without doing any research

Why, when the companys best premier product is there in the shop store window on a revolving plynth, must the customer make sure it actually works

I know fk all about golf apart from you hit balls with sticks, my dad plays it everyday, if at fathers day i go into the golf shop and say 'i want to see your best, most expensive golf club' and i get taken to the back of the store, here it is in all its glory, 50% more expensive than the rest - i really, really shouldnt have to ask - 'yeah, but does it actually work'

and the answer better not be 'well, it doesnt hit balls properly and will likely snap if you play with your friends!!!'

thats why matrix are raping their customers and it needs taking out of the window

[JudgeDredd]

lol - "hit balls with sticks"

[tgb]

I really stopped following WiF once I learned it would ship with no A.I., and was glad I did when the price was announced. But I thought the rap on it was that you could at least play multiplayer while the A.I. was being worked on.  Are you guys saying you can't even do that?

[JudgeDredd]

It's not playable multi player from what I gather - unless you are "hot seating". Netplay is porked....for all? I don't honestly know. All I know is I can't recall seeing anyone report they were able to complete a full turn

So it's solitaire only at present, or hot seat...even then though your game will apparently not be trouble free.

I'm sure it will get there...and I'm sure everyone has faith - but I would think a roadmap would be handy...let people know where exactly it is and what the plan is to get it to where it should be

[Asid]

It's not playable multi player from what I gather - unless you are "hot seating". Netplay is porked....for all? I don't honestly know. All I know is I can't recall seeing anyone report they were able to complete a full turn

I don't believe that anyone has ever completed a full game/turn over netplay. The question has been asked on the MWIF forums recently.

[z1812]

Generally speaking, I find that Matrix's quality control and customer service have diminished since their merger with Slitherine.

It seems the focus is more on quantity and less on quality.

[JudgeDredd]

Generally speaking, I find that Matrix's quality control and customer service have diminished since their merger with Slitherine.

It seems the focus is more on quantity and less on quality.

And there is exactly the opinion I was holding onto!