Question about Matrix and WiF

[tgb]

I'll just say that Erik and Ian seem to have different approaches to customer relations, and leave it at that.

[Barthheart]

Generally speaking, I find that Matrix's quality control and customer service have diminished since their merger with Slitherine.

It seems the focus is more on quantity and less on quality.

+1

[undercovergeek]

Generally speaking, I find that Matrix's quality control and customer service have diminished since their merger with Slitherine.

It seems the focus is more on quantity and less on quality.

+1

theyre paradox from 10 years ago

[JudgeDredd]

To be fair - alot of their releases are fairly problem free...as problem free as one expects computer games to be. I mean - most games are released without game stopping bugs though every game has bugs. Obviously the more complex the game, the more likely there will be more bugs...but game stoppers should've gone before release - otherwise it just isn't ready.

Their recent release of Heroes of Stalingrad is in great condition for a new release, as was Flashpoint Campaigns and, to a lesser extent, CMANO...although most of my problems with CMANO were interface related (which I see still haven't all been ironed out - I'm still having to resize the damn platform window everytime I open it!

But overall, I think they have more of a success rate than not.

This one just seemed like money needed to come in and they went the wrong way about it imo.

I said before (on release or roundabout) and I'll say again - releasing it as a BETA would've got money in the door and a lot less pissed off customers. They likely wouldn't even have had to reduce the price for the BETA - there were apparently so many hardcore board game fans that would pay a bazillion pounds for it on release...at least, that's what they were professing when anyone asked about the price!

Enough. I'll be reading with interest at the Matrix site.

[Rayfer]

My recent (over the past year) purchases from Matrix have all been very satisfying and playable right out of the gate (I only play solo against the AI so any MP issues are unknown to me)....this includes Pandora, ACW2, Heroes of Stalingrad and Flashpoint Campaigns. I understand this hasn't been the case for others with other purchases. I guess it's luck of the draw? But you can avoid really bad releases by waiting a week or two after release to see what others are saying and what issues have come up. WiF would seem to be a perfect example of this.  It is also the reason why I never pre-order. The horror stories I've read on these forums about pre-orders are nothing short of epic.

[JudgeDredd]

I don't know if this is THE announcement from Erik - I believe it is though

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3571077

[Barthheart]

Yep, I suspect that's it.....

[tgb]

All he really seems to be saying is that Matrix is aware of problems and they are working to get them fixed.  I would assume that's been the case all along, so I'm not really seeing any great revelations here.

[JasonPratt]

Not that I have a dog in this fight, but I see a distinct lack of "We will be issuing some credit to buyers who thought that they were getting something other than a semi-stable mid-range beta, and we will be changing our offering of the current product to new buyers so as to reflect the state of the game that they will receive. We need a return on investment now, so paying us to help us beta test the game will be great, but to be fair we want buyers to know that this is what they're doing so that they can make a clearly informed choice about what they're getting into. WIF is an awesome game and if you want to be a part of it early, you can!"

Current store price: $99 for download version, $99 for boxed with maps. Maps also available for sale separately, for an extra $99, in case you want an extra set.

World in Flames is Matrix Games' computer version of Australian Design Group's classic board game.  Covering both the European and Pacific Theaters of Operations during World War II, World in Flames is global in scope while simulating each branch of service in detail.  Land units are corps and army level, supplemented with specialized divisions.  Naval units include individual counters for every carrier, battleship, cruiser, and light cruiser in the war. Using 1000+ unique bitmapped images, air units represent groups of 250 to 500 airplanes.  With 6000+ unique units, 250+ countries, and a global map of 70,200 hexes, World in Flames is the premier World War II grand strategy game.

Harry Rowland, Game Designer of the original World in Flames boardgame, said: "ADG have produced some high quality games over the years but nothing compares to the top-notch components included in World in Flames: the computer game. It includes 24 full-colour maps, and 3 hard-covered books of over 600 pages, a real collector's gem".

Harry Rowland on the game's own sales store page says the computer game includes 24 full-colour maps plus 3 hard-covered books of over 600 pages.

Nine of the eleven scenarios from Australian Design Group's World in Flames Final Edition are included, and they range from the small 5 turn Barbarossa offensive in Russia and the 5 turn Guadalcanal battle in the Pacific, through to the 36 turn Global War campaign which spans all of Europe, Africa, the Middle East, Asia, the Atlantic, and the Pacific.  You can play either the Axis or the Allied side or take the role of one of the 8 major powers.  Besides solitaire and head-to-head, you can play over the Internet.  The last mode of play is for two players, Axis versus Allies.

If the game doesn't really include a solitaire mode, as the quick note below admits, the advertisement shouldn't say so here.

In addition to the full set of rules from World in Flames, Final Edition, there are 58 optional rules.  Australian Design Group's expansion modules Ships in Flames and Planes in Flames are incorporated into the basic game, but the inclusion of other expansion modules, such as Mech in Flames, Carrier Planes in Flames, and Cruisers in Flames, depends on which optional rules are selected.

This simulation models national production from conveying raw resources to factories  using rail lines and overseas pipelines for producing infantry, armor, naval, and air combat units.  Because oil was so important during World War II, there are separate optional rules for synthetic oil plants and deployment of oil reserves to the front lines.

Game units represent armies and corps, aircraft carriers, naval task forces, and air groups that took part in World War II.  Everything you need to re-fight the greatest conflict in history is provided in World in Flames.  The players make the strategic decisions that decide the fate of nations.  What forces to produce, where to commit them, when and how?  No two games of World in Flames play the same, no strategy is foolproof, any decision may have unforeseen, long-term consequences.

If you want to change the world then World in Flames is for you.



IMPORTANT: For news on the state of Multiplayer at release and World in Flames, please read this Forum post.

For more information on physical copy shipment and customs costs, please read this Forum post.



For more in-game content, read the "Seven Moments of WoW"!

IMPORTANT NOTE: This title does not include an AI player in the initial release.  It is designed as a computerized, automated and online multiplayer-capable World in Flames, including an integrated multiplayer forum and an official multiplayer server for easy player matching and networking.

WHAT YOU GET - An amazing physical package! [etc.]

Gosh, looks to me like the game provides, and is intended for, an integrated online multiplayer-capable WiF, including an integrated mp form and easy player etc., and is ready to play right out of the box! They wouldn't charge $100 for downloading a game that was still deep in beta for the only intended way to play the game, would they?

... oh, they're charging $99 for the maps (whether you want them or not), and the game is actually free right now? That's why they say you get an amazing physical package, yeah I remember the designer saying it had 24 full scale maps, scrolling down to read more, GIANT EYECATCHING SCALE PHOTO OF HOW LARGE THE PHYSICAL MAPS ARE! PLUS PHOTOS OF THE RULE BOOKS!

So whether the game works sufficiently well in its only intended mode of play is kind of irrelevant -- it isn't like customers are actually paying for the game yet, only for the maps. That would explain why the only way to buy the game in-store is to pay $99 for the maps.


(Note: the site does say between the amazing physical package and the large eyecatching graphic about the amazing physical maps, that the physical maps are an optional purchase.)

[Asid]

Hi JasonPratt

It is $99 for Download only

or

$99 for Download + Physical (Includes 3 manuals + Game disc)

The maps are an extra $99

Remember though that depending on where you live the Postage can be considerable... then there is customs and duty on top  :o

Regards

[JasonPratt]

Out of curiosity, I clicked to buy the separate map pack. Apparently I was wrong, the game itself also costs $99 to buy separately along with the map pack, although they're willing to give me a 25% discount for buying them separately together: $99 (for map pack) + $74.99 for the game.

I really just want to have an "amazing physical package", though, not the game. I won't click to add the game and see what happens.

Redirecting to Plimus... taking a while, must be server load for the guys interested in having an amazing physical package...

Yep, there we go, the physical maps, $99.

[Edited to add: Asid confirmed this while I was composing.]


Gosh, I dunno. Now that I think about it, maybe it would be nice to have a fun multiplayer game with an integrated and stable multiplayer experience. I mean, I can play single-player WW2 on a global map pretty stably on several other games, even some with several thousand hexes on the map; but I'd like to be able to play the super-huge 10Khex+ map set board game with my brother and it would be handy to have that ability on the computer. Naturally, we'll still both have to buy the physical maps anyway from Matrix, even though we're never going to use them and don't really want them; and we'll both have to pay an extra $99 (or $75 rather) to play the computer version of those maps, but the game should competently allow us to do so. They wouldn't charge $99 $75 to each of us for a game we couldn't be reasonably sure would abritrate our game for us between our computers, right?


So I'll go back to the map page, order again, click on the box to add the game -- oh, good, the system realized I didn't actually want two sets of the maps, because that would be ridiculous. $99 for the physical maps, $74.99 for the game in a physical box. $174.98 + shipping & handlng. I CAN FEEL MY PHYSICAL AMAZINGNESS SWELLING AS I LOOK AT IT!!

Or... I dunno, I get the impression from the other store window that I could buy the maps there for $99 and get the game for free. That would seem to make more sense. But if that's the case, what am I buying here for $74.99? {squinting} It says I'm buying a "promo physical".

... am I buying a $75 box to put the maps in? Is that being offered as a special deal to promote the game?

Oh well. Continue shopping, back to the store window for the game, click on download -- I don't understand the distinction between getting a download for free plus $99 of maps, and buying a physical copy of the game plus a download for free and $99 of maps. Maybe they're sending me a physical backup disk. Okay, wait, that's a good idea. Matrix usually charges, like, $10 for a backup disc. I'll go back and get that, instead.

Huh. Okay, when I click on a physical copy of the game (presumably meaning a CD or DVD, whatever), I get taken back to the store window for the maps by themselves. To which I can add a copy of the game for a reduced price of $75. I'm back where I started. This is silly, I'll just go to my checkout.

What? Checkout comes back here again! Fine, I'll proceed without clicking on a copy of the game. I'll delete the extra map pack when I get to the store.

So... dang, which of these is just the game for free, and which are the $99 map packs? I don't want to pay for extra map packs -- honestly, I could do without the maps at all -- but I certainly don't want to pay $75 for the game plus $99 for a map pack if I can get the game for free plus a $99 map pack. But which one(s) do I delete, and which do I keep? Can't I just buy the game for free if it's free?

Sigh. My physical impressiveness is feeling so large my brain is dizzy. HELP ME O INTERNETS!!


(Click on an image below to swell its physical AMAZINGNESS. For free.)

[JasonPratt]

Sarcasm off: my points are...

(1) The store could do a better job explaining that the maps cost $100 by themselves and are a totally separate purchase, and the game costs $100 by itself as a totally separate purchase (or rather $200 as two totally separate purchases) but with an option to mail a free printed copy of the manuals and a physical disc -- but if someone buys the maps they can get the game at a 25% discount (not the other way around because obviously the maps are the most important thing for fans of the game who already have physical maps most likely SARCASM OFF SARCASM OFF!). The information is there, but is mixed in with the confusing original advertisement copy.

Far more importantly: (2) The store could do a much better job explaining that for $200 (or for $275 if one set of maps are also bought), two players who have bought the game solely for its only intended purpose, to play WiF against each other on the computer, will be buying a mid-grade beta product with tons of bugs still in it and a good chance of being unable to play the game against each other although they can solitaire around by themselves without an opponent at all on each of their computers if they want. And run into the tons of bugs that way, too.


I can totally understand why customers are torqued over this. I would be rage vomiting.

[Asid]

lol JasonPratt

If you are not hit by the poatage and customs/duty issue (like the Europeans are) then buy the physical for $99 + postage ($10 in USA i think). In this package you will recieve:

3 Game manuals
1 Game disc
NO MAPS

Download only gives you just the software as is included in the above package.

There is no way to get the software for free and the maps are $99 minus a discount if bought with the game.

Hope this helps....

But first read in the Matrix forums as to the state of the game... long term!

Regards

[JasonPratt]

There is no way to get the software for free and the maps are $99 minus a discount if bought with the game.

I know, I was commenting on the unclarity of the store pages, and how someone trying to suss out what's being bought where could get confused because paying $175 for a game plus maps seems unintuitive and unlikely.

Customers should not have to click on the forums to find out the state of a game that costs, by itself, $100. Vague "important" hints on the store page to click on a link don't offset this problem.

Customers, in my opinion, shouldn't pay $100 to play a game where the prime functionality stands a good chance, or even a moderate chance, or even a small chance, of being broken. But if they want to take that risk, they ought to be given information about it first. That's why there are early-beta sales programs.

[JasonPratt]

Correction to my screed: the store page for the game, when buying the physical collection, offers to sell the map collection at 25% off; it doesn't link as though the customer tried to buy the maps first.


Despite how it may seem, I do appreciate Asid trying to be fair to the Matrix store pages.  :D It's possible my brain was just stunned by the concept of paying no less than $200 ($100 per person) for a game that doesn't reliably work in its prime function (not even counting the bugs), while the Matrix PR guys are still trying to distract customers from that by waving around a set of maps for an extra $100 above and beyond the minimum $200 game cost which do, admittedly, work so far as they go.