CM Red Thunder page is up

[undercovergeek]

I will try not embarrass you in front of you new friends Dorosh.  It is a fact you have been either banned or driven away from most CM arenas and now are trying to recruit anyone from those sites  to listen to your barely suppressed rage at being yourself.  Congrats on the declining Lulu sales.  Can you get more marginalized in your life?  Thanks for the invite and expected propaganda.  Do you think anyone wants to be near you?  Is there anything but a barely suppressed rage at being a shorted person in a big world?

As far as his banning, and running away when he can't cry to the moderators,...does he just run away because he can't fight?  No, he runs away because he can't cheat or lie or bend the truth, or blow smoke out of his ass, or ingratiate himself or gain favor, etc.  Quite a shining example of Canadian Military manhood.

You make it sound like we dont know who Michael is, like its some kind of gaming kindergarten here and the big man has come to steal our toys.

Personally, im beta testing 2 CM games, i know who he is, we all know who is, whether i agree with his views doesnt matter - hes allowed just as much as you are to express his opinion - if those get him in hot water then he'll get some red writing and be shown the door - dont think youre doing the world a service by chasing him round the internet telling people what you think of him.

If you are who Michael says you are, ive read enough of your posts elsewhere to know what kind of person you are too

[Michael Dorosh]

Personally, im beta testing 2 CM games

I'd be more interested in talking about those, than other people I've never met. Too bad about those pesky NDAs.

Hopefully the thread isn't completely derailed. undercovergeek started this off by noting the new game engine has hit decals.

Here is the full feature list:

• Backpack and vehicle flamethrowers
• Soviet air support attacks on its own instead of being controlled by ground observers
• Antiaircraft weapons are now able to fire at attacking aircraft
• Tank riders! Most AFVs are able to transport either teams or squads   
• WeGo TCP/IP with the ability to save but not the ability to replay combat action   
• Ammo Dumps allow platoons to have reserve ammo stored separately on map   
• More realistic/varied RoF of automatic weapons   
• All Squads can split, however Soviet units are less reliable when not in direct visual LOS of their Squad Leader   
• Squads can act as HQs for better historical accuracy   
• Hit impacts to vehicles and bunkers now shown graphically ("hit decals")   
• Water animates for fording units   
• Three different sets of camera controls; Standard (traditional), First Person Shooter, and Real Time Strategy   
• Optional graphical Command and Control link tracing   
• Casualties are shown in the Soldier/Crew Panels to track soldiers lost during the game   
• Option to disable music separate from other game sounds   
• AI Triggers allow AI forces to execute actions based on other units or interaction with Objectives   
• Maximum map size increased 
• Improve responsiveness of 2D editing, especially for large maps   
• Customized "Mod Tags" for most graphics. This allows scenario designers to specify specific mods be used for a specific Scenario. If CM fails to find the specified mod it will use the default   

It's a pretty nice, if incremental list. Not sure I understand the full implications of it all yet but I don't think we will have long to wait at this point.  I'm most curious about the new camera controls.

[Zonso]

The CM community makes the game so inviting...

I'm not sure who you are referring to here as part of the "CM community". People such as the thinly veiled Redirected and Michael Dorosh, not above multiple handles either, were officially given the boot years ago. The bane, or boon, of the internet is the sordid mess is preserved for all to see if they so wish.

The *real* CM community is welcoming and extremely helpful and knowledgeable, as I'm sure others here who frequent the BFC forums can attest.

[Michael Dorosh]

I'm not sure who you are referring to here as part of the "CM community". People such as... Michael Dorosh, not above multiple handles either, were officially given the boot years ago.

This is inaccurate. If you go to the official battlefront Repository, you'll see that I've contributed, and continue to contribute, a number of scenarios for the current line of CM games.

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=314

I should point out that the "real CM Community" also exists and thrives outside the official BFC forums. This forum too is very much a part of it. That's hardly an insult. One would actually hope for that kind of success in any endeavour. If you support the game and its developers half as much as you suggest you do, you would also suppport the idea of breaking down silos and encourage a vision where fans and support existed in areas outside the "official" venues.

Edit to add:

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=314&func=select&id=44&orderby=2&page=12

Mine are prefixed by the letters "TWC" if anyone is curious. Always glad to receive constructive feedback on them. I'm happy to do the same for others who are designing their own. As the editor gets more involved, it pays to be networking...

[Tuna]

The CM community makes the game so inviting...

I'm not sure who you are referring to here as part of the "CM community". People such as the thinly veiled Redirected and Michael Dorosh, not above multiple handles either, were officially given the boot years ago. The bane, or boon, of the internet is the sordid mess is preserved for all to see if they so wish.

The *real* CM community is welcoming and extremely helpful and knowledgeable, as I'm sure others here who frequent the BFC forums can attest.

Why are you trying to lump Michael Dorosh in with Redirected?

Mr. Doresh did nothing like Redirected coming in here with guns blazing? Seems like people come in here to attack him from afar. I do not know him, but I have not see him misbehave on this website at all.

He seems to give both the good and bad about products in his posts. Does not seem to 'flame' anyone that I can see.

This site is a place where you don't have to worry about a Company owning it, so you can freely express your opinions on any products. No need to start attacks on others.

[Grim.Reaper]

The CM community makes the game so inviting...

I'm not sure who you are referring to here as part of the "CM community". People such as the thinly veiled Redirected and Michael Dorosh, not above multiple handles either, were officially given the boot years ago. The bane, or boon, of the internet is the sordid mess is preserved for all to see if they so wish.

The *real* CM community is welcoming and extremely helpful and knowledgeable, as I'm sure others here who frequent the BFC forums can attest.

Why are you trying to lump Michael Dorosh in with Redirected?

Mr. Doresh did nothing like Redirected coming in here with guns blazing? Seems like people come in here to attack him from afar. I do not know him, but I have not see him misbehave on this website at all.

He seems to give both the good and bad about products in his posts. Does not seem to 'flame' anyone that I can see.

This site is a place where you don't have to worry about a Company owning it, so you can freely express your opinions on any products. No need to start attacks on others.

+1....I can care less who people are as long as cordial to each other and respect opinions....its a shame that every CM thread ends up like this.  Too bad the thread could not stick to its original intent of announcing and discussing the new title coming.

[SgtRock]

Ammo Dumps allow platoons to have reserve ammo stored separately on map

Are these any different than supply trucks? Do/can they carry mortar, bazooka rounds, grenades, etc.?

How do you get ammo from a supply dump to front line units (away from supply dump)?

[Michael Dorosh]

Ammo Dumps allow platoons to have reserve ammo stored separately on map

Are these any different than supply trucks? Do/can they carry mortar, bazooka rounds, grenades, etc.?

How do you get ammo from a supply dump to front line units (away from supply dump)?

I believe the difference is they don't move meaning your units have to go back and get the stuff. This was one of my concerns when CM:SF came out. When I did my basic training a couple of decades and change ago, it seems to me that during a running battle, one or two of us might be split off as runners to go back and get bandoliers of ammo from the supply point for the section (squad). I do like the greater flexibility I am seeing in CM:FI and CM:BN where you can split down into specific kinds of teams (anti-tank, assault, scout, etc.). I'd like to be able to split off individuals to do 'joe jobs' like ammo and prisoners. That might be too much micromanagement, so maybe there is a mechanism for this in the works.

I note in some of the AAR screenshots, there are 'straggler' units identified in the interface, so we shall wait and see. I remember in Close Combat that sometimes individual guys would split off of squads and you would lose control of them. A feature like that would be interesting, though perhaps mildly controversial. Players hate losing control.

[bayonetbrant]

let's focus on talking about the games and not about the people playing, testing, designing or contributing to them.

kthxbai!

[Redirected]

let's focus on talking about the games and not about the people playing, testing, designing or contributing to them.

kthxbai!

Good idea.  That is one of the main reasons I came here.  That, and the thread inviting me to. 

[Redirected]

In focusing on the game, specifically the new Red Thunder 'Family', an interesting issue is the modeling of the Soviets and specifically limitations on their command and control and tactical flexibility.  If anything, the Red Thunder AAR shows that a CM player can still use CM-tricks to get intel and abuse the clock-allotted-time. 

As far as I can tell, BF has put some sort of limitations on split Soviet squads.  Teams busted off a squad have some voodoo put on them.  Things like artillery time constraints might also be modeled but never came up since the Soviet player did not purchase artillery in the AAR.  It just seems the Soviets are modeled just as most armies with different toys.

So, what can a game designer, or a scenario designer, actually do to model the Soviets?  As it is, CMRT 3.0 does not strike me as being that different than the previous 2.0 iterations. 

The game designers have pretty much said that they think they know there are solutions, but they don't want to invest in anything like that at this point.  Things such as pre-game attack plans, limitations on movement/actions outside the plan, etc., have been discussed for years and are now recognized as viable solutions, but they mean programming, and that is the last thing that will be happening given the need to release product.

So, so much for the game design aspect.  Then, perhaps it is up to the scenario designer?  One of the things that sticks out in the AAR is the amount of time and hyper-coordination that the CM player is 'allowed'.  If that same AAR was played with a 45 minute 'clock', perhaps it would have been modeling a Soviet attacker more accurately.  The scenario seemed to be a hasty attack and also a 'surprised' defense.  A Soviet mobile unit tasked with clearing out some German rear echelon areas that had been notified and a defense thrown together.

So, time, and specifically the clock, is a major variable that can be controlled by the scenario designer.  But how else can the Soviet 'coordination' be modeled or controlled?  Perhaps timed reinforcements or better yet, reinforcements that are linked to capture of an objective?  If BilH had to take an objective before he was allowed to roll his ISU-122's, instead of using them ahistorically and as some sort of diversion, then the game would have been more realistic and constraints like this would have funneled the Soviet player to act as such.

I would actually like the clock to be an unknown value to both players.  It is just such a unrealistic parameter and the fact that it can run longer, just helps the attacker (I can consider the game 'pro-attacker'), and that it should really be reevaluated completely.  Of course, this is a game design decision.  Some thoughts would be the clock is variable in length for both +/- as a natural variability.  The clock should also play into the victory analysis.  If an attacker takes all objectives in an expedient manner, then he is awarded extra points. 

I would like 'the clock' to be invisible to both sides (in certain situations) and perhaps only visible to the defender (maybe the attacker) in other situations.  This element of uncertainty could be optional, in fact many aspects of game improvement should be, and could add a sense of urgency to an attacker's agenda and remove the gamey nature of time and intel management that a 'good' player uses.

[Redirected]

I note in some of the AAR screenshots, there are 'straggler' units identified in the interface, so we shall wait and see. I remember in Close Combat that sometimes individual guys would split off of squads and you would lose control of them. A feature like that would be interesting, though perhaps mildly controversial. Players hate losing control.

Stragglers are a unit type.  Made of Stragglers.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=113402&page=11

Edit:

  #112 
Unread 02-02-2014, 04:22 PM
ChrisND  ChrisND is offline
Administrator
   
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,193
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldat-Hans  View Post
Which equipment and weapons does straggler groups have? How many men per group? Ammo??
A full strength Straggler Group formation is about 200 soldiers, most of whom are armed with Kar.98s and a few SMGs, x4 LMGs, and x2 HMGs. They can also carry panzerfausts.

I don't believe they carry PF according to Elvis' statements in the thread. 

[Keunert]

in multiplayer the soviets could also be modeled by applying some houserules i imagine. The utterly brilliant Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue is quite a good single player affair, but it helps to add some houserules if you strive for historical accuracy.

[SgtRock]

Any difference in LOS rules for the new camera modes (Standard, First Person Shooter, and Real Time Strategy)?

[Redirected]

The CM community makes the game so inviting...

I'm not sure who you are referring to here as part of the "CM community". People such as the thinly veiled Redirected and Michael Dorosh, not above multiple handles either, were officially given the boot years ago. The bane, or boon, of the internet is the sordid mess is preserved for all to see if they so wish.

The *real* CM community is welcoming and extremely helpful and knowledgeable, as I'm sure others here who frequent the BFC forums can attest.

He had multiple handles?  Does he have a list or does he just track other people?  I find it so amusing he accuses people openly and names them and the names are not even the person at all.  I guess I could Google the names and find out who was yanking his chain?