WWI: Centenial Edition

[WallysWorld]

So I took a chance and bought the game.

I'll second some of Queeg's positive comments:

a) The game does load a lot faster and the game play does feel smoother.
b) The new unit graphics are nice, but a little cartoon-ish for my taste.
c) The font that is used for the messages is much easier to read as Queeg noted. This really helps when trying to read the game messages.

Now for some negatives again with the first one as Queeg mentioned:

a) When you select "Load all map at start" in the game configurator, the game does freeze up while initializing and you have to tab out to get back to your desktop.
b) Whenever I save a scenario in progress, the game crashes when you click on the single player option from the main menu. This always happens until I delete the save game file and then the crashes stop. This crash obviously defeats the purpose of saving a game in progress.
c) When you download the game through Steam, you are actually downloading just the install files into the Steam/common apps folder. When you click on Play in your game library, you are prompted to install the game itself in a non-Steam folder. This is quite different from a regular Steam game.

I noticed that the devs have commented that they are new to Steam and haven't got it quite figured out how to use Steam with their game. They said they will commit resources to the issues next week.

I guess time will tell if the purchase was worth it or not.

[Queeg]

I guess time will tell if the purchase was worth it or not.

So far, it's been worth it simply for the loading and speed improvements.  The difference there is dramatic. 

There are bugs still, but they mostly mimic the bugs in the earlier version.  If they really are committed to fixing the worst of them, then this will be a big step forward. 

[JasonPratt]

Darkest Hour is a better bet, though it's not a war game per se and suffers from all the problems of the Paradox games where warfare is concerned.  As a grand strategy game in the WWI era, it offers a nice mix of economic, industrial and diplomatic decisions, all leading up to a rather lackluster combat model.  If you enjoy building, equipping and deploying 100 divisions, one at a time, then it's a very good game for that.  But if your interest is more in fighting a war with them, not so much.

We must have been playing radically different versions of Darkest Hour, then; because as Russia I'm only given time to make some adjustments about where I want to consolidate my frontlines with what generals, and some initial allocations to research and updates, before (assuming I back the Serbs -- and maybe even if I don't!) I'm thrust into a war in which my industrial decisions won't mean squat before I'm overrun; ditto my diplomatic decisions for the most part (except in regard to some economic hustlry). It's a frantic backstepping shuffle to hold the line until winter when hopefully my first troop updates will be finished with some brigades while the the Germans take a break eating my land for Christmas cake. Then hoping I can hold the line again for another year until some of my upgrades to tech come through and even then I have no time to train new divisions from scratch.

I can't imagine any other nations are able to add new troops or do much significant in industrial upgrades in the first few years either. What we fight with is what we have pretty much.

[Queeg]

Darkest Hour is a better bet, though it's not a war game per se and suffers from all the problems of the Paradox games where warfare is concerned.  As a grand strategy game in the WWI era, it offers a nice mix of economic, industrial and diplomatic decisions, all leading up to a rather lackluster combat model.  If you enjoy building, equipping and deploying 100 divisions, one at a time, then it's a very good game for that.  But if your interest is more in fighting a war with them, not so much.

We must have been playing radically different versions of Darkest Hour, then; because as Russia I'm only given time to make some adjustments about where I want to consolidate my frontlines with what generals, and some initial allocations to research and updates, before (assuming I back the Serbs -- and maybe even if I don't!) I'm thrust into a war in which my industrial decisions won't mean squat before I'm overrun; ditto my diplomatic decisions for the most part (except in regard to some economic hustlry). It's a frantic backstepping shuffle to hold the line until winter when hopefully my first troop updates will be finished with some brigades while the the Germans take a break eating my land for Christmas cake. Then hoping I can hold the line again for another year until some of my upgrades to tech come through and even then I have no time to train new divisions from scratch.

I can't imagine any other nations are able to add new troops or do much significant in industrial upgrades in the first few years either. What we fight with is what we have pretty much.

You're right.  I was thinking of the WWI mod to HOI3, which includes a 1910 scenario.

I have Darkest Hour but haven't played it in awhile, mainly because I'm not a big fan of the Paradox combat model.  But perhaps I'll give it another look.

[WallysWorld]

I just want to update of my comments. I started a grand campaign and the save game works fine. Maybe it's just the small scenarios that have an issue with the save game files.

So that's good news!

[Queeg]

I just want to update of my comments. I started a grand campaign and the save game works fine. Maybe it's just the small scenarios that have an issue with the save game files.

So that's good news!

I've been pretty lucky so far.  Only one crash in game.  A few others while loading a scenario (usually when switching from one scenario to another). 

[Nefaro]

I've been so fixated on trying to figure out whether anyone currently owning WW1G should think about updating to the Steam version yet, that I've kind of ignored a possibly pertinent claim being made upthread.

Look, I love Ageod's WW1Gold. And until recently I would have agreed 100% that even with its warts it was the most detailed, in-depth version of the war available on computer.

But that just isn't true anymore, and hasn't been true for a number of years.

There are at least two games about WW1 which are substantially more in-depth than WW1G even.

One is Darkest Hour, which has a dedicated WW1 campaign. On every conceivable point (MAYBE except supply), DH is more in-depth. That isn't to take away from depth WW1G has, but choose a topic -- DH will cover it at least as well and almost certainly better. (Supply may be covered a bit less, but it's hard to tell because of how the infrastructure in DH works in regard to supply. It may actually cover supply more, too.) With the introduction of a slight popular mod, the game can even run through WW2 with plot triggers (if appropriately triggered) into the early 1960s or even to 1970.

The other, not surprisingly, is Victoria 2, which although it cannot run up into WW2 (unless into official HOI3 somehow) is actually MORE in-depth than Darkest Hour, because the Clausewitz engine itself is generally more indepth than the Europa engine, and it forces players to work up to WW1 from back in the early 1800s!

Both games aren't quite as gorgeously handpainted as the boardgame-map from WW1G, but they're no slouches either.

Both games are stable and pretty-much bug-free. (Compared to WW1G anyway.)

Both games are widely available in Steam and non-Steam versions, and both games often go on sale. Even when not on sale DH only costs $10 on Steam, and runs just fine on Win8. (Vicky2 is $20 when not on sale.)

Really at this point, unless someone just wants to play with the more boardgamish mechanics of WW1G, there's no reason not to spend less money on a more stable and significantly more detailed version of WW1 already in existence.  :)

WW1G still a better treatment than those IMO.

Hell, you'd also be better off getting SC:WW1 or Commander: The Great War too.

[JasonPratt]

Got both of those a while back, haven't played them yet, don't seem as deep as Darkest Hour.  ;D

[Gusington]

I'm following this thread so closely...the perfect WWI strategy game is my Holy Grail. I really like SC:WWI and Commander: WWI, but I still feel like they're missing something. Maybe that something can't be captured in a PC game.

[Grim.Reaper]

I'm following this thread so closely...the perfect WWI strategy game is my Holy Grail. I really like SC:WWI and Commander: WWI, but I still feel like they're missing something. Maybe that something can't be captured in a PC game.

Just curious, with the WW1 games out there and coming up, what do you think is missing or have failed to be captured?  I would just think one of these should be able to come close to meeting your needs.  I am not a WW1 expert, so I am genuinely interested in understanding what these games don't do well.

[Gusington]

The most clear way I can put it is the technology evolution. Even SCWWI and CTGW feel somewhat static, even with CTGW tech tree and research, to me a quick replacement of unit cards and it could easily be a game about WWII.

I want a game to capture the feeling of blasting away the 19th century with a screeching tear into the 20th century.

I don't know if that can be done in a game.

[jomni]

Squad  Battles First world War fits the bill.
You start with large formations where each unit is a platoon and you also have flag bearers. Arty is direct fire infantry guns save for some mortars. It feels Napoleonic.  Then you get to the point where a unit is a squad armed with light machine guns. Then you have tanks. Pretty much WW2 tactics.

But it is not grand strategy.

[Gusington]

You know I forgot all about Squad Battles...I had meant to pick that up but never did.

[JasonPratt]

The most clear way I can put it is the technology evolution. Even SCWWI and CTGW feel somewhat static, even with CTGW tech tree and research, to me a quick replacement of unit cards and it could easily be a game about WWII.

I want a game to capture the feeling of blasting away the 19th century with a screeching tear into the 20th century.

I don't know if that can be done in a game.

Not sure about Vicky2 (eventually), but Darkest Hour does involve very detailed tech evolution. And some mods making the tech developments more detailed, too.

Right this moment as Russia I have cavalry and infantry from back as far as 1870 teamed up with cavalry and infantry and artillery from pre-war, struggling to get the 19th century upgraded to even pre-War 20th century standards (and researching 1914 standards) while trying to hold back a more numerous German army with mostly 1914 standard troops, arty, 1914 armored cars (not many yet but I know from past experience they're on the way -- Britain has an asston of armored cars later in 1914). I'm researching as fast as I can but even Russia can't research everything at once and I have to make hard choices about what to spend time on.

But neither is research particularly fast. I'll be well into 1915 before I can get tech for (much less get all my troops upgraded to) 1914 standards. That's mainly because Russia starts off way behind. There are built-in penalties to researching something that historically appeared in later years, too, effectively meaning no one (unless the game starts them with it) is going to get advanced tech much ahead of anyone else -- once I have 1914 construction methods for example I'm not going to get the next level, 1936, much before 1936 regardless of how early I start researching it and that research team will be busy instead of doing something I might be able to use sooner. (The idea aside from protecting the game from getting nuclear subs in the 1920s is that techs required a bunch of other things which were being developed behind the scenes, so someone researching a tech in advance of the current year has to be inventing all that other stuff too.) But if I recall my Ethiopian game correctly, Britain starts with 1922 era marine troops. But even they won't be able to go farther much faster along that line compared to everyone else -- by the time it unlocks for other nations in 1922 they might have gotten another, say, two levels farther on but only at sacrificing the six or seven other techs that tech slot could have been developing in those eight years.


So on one hand, it's very much the 20th century blasting away the 19th. On the other hand, it's hardly a screeching tear: if I worked hard and sacrificed other advancements I might have, say, 1970 airmobile cavalry and cobra assault helicopters by the 1950s, but I'm not going to have them in the 30s or probably even the 40s.

Now, most of these techs come down to various numbers increasing (or decreasing where that might be improvements) but the majors and even some of the minors get specific art for their techs; and if I understand the code files correctly different nations get potential access to slightly different possible tech trees.

Anyway, there are over eight hundred techs stretching from pre-1870 tribal warfare to nuclear powered battleships (though even the "Full" DH game has some gaps, such as no pre-1870 troops!) and several mod projects refine and fill in those options with more techs.

[JasonPratt]

Okay Gus, now that I'm back at the house: here are (most) all the techs for Russia in Darkest Hour, assuming a June 28 1914 start date. (There are no earlier possible start dates in the official game, and a proposed 1880 mod hasn't gotten far. Theoretically someone could pretty easily tweak a first save file to be any earlier year, but all nations would be starting with techs the game expects for them to have in summer 1914.)


Industrial techs. Lots of flavors. One thing I haven't yet seen the game really implement (because I haven't been in a position to see it yet) are the giant trench systems. What little entrenchment I've seen (unlocked with the second "construction" tech) is simple camp fortification which are abandoned and destroyed with a movement order. I'm actually unsure how much trenching is in Darkest Hour, if any! -- the difficulty in assault may be represented by other factors. "Sturdy equipment" means slight improvements for all units in mountain, hill and mud.


Land warfare doctrines. These grant bonuses to some or all units under various conditions, unlock and help activate tactics during battle, and occasionally unlock mission possibilities. Also the hospital techs, complimenting the medical techs from the industrial page, are here.


Infantry (including cavalry) and logistic techs. Light/mountain infantry are the early elites, trading off the ability to have a second brigade attached for special bonuses in other regards.


Armor and artillery (including anti-air). Some of these techs unlock techs elsewhere like the motorized and mechanized infantry divisions and brigades. Tanks require a couple of secret weapon research techs first, and also armored car research for a while.


This is tech for various air doctrine techs, which are applied theories. They usually provide small bonuses to various things and situations, but also unlock aircraft, mission possibilities, and I think tactics which pilots may employ in a battle.


These are the various aircraft which can be researched.


Naval doctrine techs, granting various bonuses, unlocking tactics and missions.


Ship techs. Lots of variety dating back to 1870!


Secret weapon projects. Some of these don't show up at all without other research first, thus the blanks.


I'm not sure how someone got over 800 techs out of this -- maybe they were counting the five constituent subtechs every tech is made from, but those are just labels for research progress bars. Some techs, like super-heavy arty, or the garrison and militia, or headquarters, come attached to other main research though. And it's still a ton of techs. :)


Note that these texts are only available in Darkest Hour Full. DH also comes with one or two earlier iterations which are really HOI2 using some DH additions. Since HOI2 never had a World War 1 campaign, though, that can only be played on DHFull.