News from Ukraine Conflict

[LongBlade]

Are any of the rebel groups equipped with Buk systems or similar weapons?

Talking heads on TV say that if the rebs did it they were prolly Russian speztnaz with the patches cut off.

[bayonetbrant]

Are any of the rebel groups equipped with Buk systems or similar weapons?

The rebels seized some air defense equipment about 3 weeks ago, but I can't find the news link right now.

Plus, there's nothing saying the Russians didn't slip a few toys over the border and just let the rebels chalk it up to 'captured equipment'

[endfire79]

Wow.... I had no idea that airliners were still flying over or that close to the conflict zones. 

[bayonetbrant]

And its not like the Russians never shot down an Asian airliner full of civilians before...

[OJsDad]

Wow.  I was playing a scenario based on this same thing in Bayonet Games Orange Crush last night...oh wait.   O:-)

[bayonetbrant]

Wow.  I was playing a scenario based on this same thing in Bayonet Games Orange Crush last night...oh wait.   O:-)

suckit

;)

[WallysWorld]

The evidence is definitely pointing to Russian separatist involvement.

"All this creates the impression that Girkin claimed responsibility for the downing of MH17, thinking it was a Ukrainian military transport, and then panicked and tried to hide the evidence after the truth came out."

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2014/0717/Web-evidence-points-to-pro-Russia-rebels-in-downing-of-MH17

[MikeGER]

...so all Nations whose citizen got killed, should hold a high rank meeting, declare the NATO Casus foederis  has set in against the selfdeclared 'Donez Republic' (or how they call themself) , and air strike them to smithereens ASAP with the OK of the Ukraine goverment (its there territory, at least in juristic terms)   ... the Ukrainian ground forces go in a for the mop up later after the very short air campaign ....while  Russia cant do anything against that then complain in its newsoutlets, after this horrifying event.

[GDS_Starfury]

God help the wicked if Mike and I are ever world leaders.

[Staggerwing]

The report I heard on the way home said that most of the folks on that triple seven were Dutch nationals. As a member of the great Dutch Diaspora I think it's high time that Putin gets called out on his farce of erzatz Russokrainians with a much bigger stick upside his politico-economic head.

Also, I wonder if anyone in Chechnya might be interested in Stinger SAMs that are GPS-locked to only operate in Russian airspace...  >:(

[panzerde]

As much as I'd loved to see Tornados on SEAD missions over eastern Ukraine because of this, I suspect the resulting EU sanctions are going to be a lot more damaging.

One report I read suggested it was actually a Cossack unit that was responsible. Who in their right mind gives a Buk system to Cossacks?!

[endfire79]

Some thoughts here.

Civil war in Ukraine.  Both sides have access to weapons.  There has been active attempts by the pro-Russian separatists to shoot down Ukranian aircraft in the last month.  The world knows this.  I am really surprised airlines are still permitting flight paths through this warzone.

I can imagine that pilots are taught to be conservative with fuel consumption, and that is true for airline pilots.  I don't know what exactly the Malyasian flight group was thinking, hopefully the black box can be recovered and can explain their flight path choices, either be it for fuel conservation or for avoiding bad weather.  The fact is they did flight through or very close to a really dangerous area.  I am really wondering if any other airliners had the sense to take notice of the warnings in the last month.  As for the belligerents on the ground, some proof (either radio/cellphone or wireless traffic) will come up soon that they were most likely involved.  I don't see what they would gain from shooting an civilian airliner, unless the plan was to blame it on the other side.  Most likely somebody FUBARD and chose the wrong target of the day, and now *it* has hit the fan. 

I am getting pretty sure that Malaysian Airlines will be out of business after the fallout from this and the reaction by the families and after a disastrous year.   I really feel for the families, as I think this whole thing could have been avoided.

[jomni]

Countries avoid the area individually but IATA has not explicitly barred flights in the area. Local NOTAMS do have warnings about military action.  I believe IATA is partly to blame. I guess they trust the responsibility and capability of the militaries of both sides to ID targets before shooting.

[endfire79]

You are right.  There have been advisories issued months before, but I dont think anyone can enforce that.  Sometimes they bar flights up to 9000 ft, then people just fly at 10,000. 

[bayonetbrant]

Also, I wonder if anyone in Chechnya might be interested in Stinger SAMs that are GPS-locked to only operate in Russian airspace...  >:(

Fuck.  No.

We learned after the Mooj in Afghanistan that the enemy of my enemy might turn into my enemy at some point too.  Chechnya is a kleptocratic gangster state that's run by career criminals who figured out the world will view them more sympathetically if they claim 'religious oppression'.

We don't need to try to fight any more guerrilla proxy wars, because they all spiral sideways out of control at the end and come back and bite you in the ass.