Interesting discussion of 32 bit vs 64 bit development

RyanE · July 21, 2014, 06:26:04 AM

I consider eSims (maker of Steelbeasts) a pretty conservative development group. I think part of it is culture, but a big part of it is their DoD/MoD customer base.

That said, there head guy had some interesting comments on their thought process on recently rolling out a 64 bit beta:

Quote from sSnake:

We will continue to support 32 bit versions for a while; right now it is planned to have it at least in the next major upgrade. How much longer beyond that is an open question for two reasons:

The memory demand for RAM is rather increasing, the more detailed the terrain gets
This is an unbroken trend; it appears most likely that this trend will continue for years to come. This simply puts systems that are limited to 3 GByte accessible RAM at an ever growing disadvantage.

32 and 64 bit versions will remain incompatible in network sessions
Already it appears as if the 64 bit users are a vast majority. This casts some doubt about the viability to maintain a critical mass of online players limited to 32 bit game sessions.

Unquote

from this thread: http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showthread.php?t=20911

I remember a long discussion, and one that pops up quite often, over on the BFC forums. They have chosen to not invest in 64 bit development. It took quite a bit a of pushing and cajoling to even get them to accept the flag in 32 bit XP/Win7 systems that gives an extra Gig of RAM to the game.

How many people still use a 32 bit gaming system here? I haven't touched one in probably four years myself.

Yskonyn · July 21, 2014, 07:19:39 AM

I am using a 64bit system for over 3 years now.

jomni · July 21, 2014, 08:02:25 AM

64 bit is really the way to go for simulation. X-Plane has moved on. FSX is still stuck in 32 bit and it is suffering from Out Of Memory issues.

Bletchley_Geek · July 21, 2014, 08:58:17 AM

Re: Battlefront.com and 64 bit support.

That's a head scratcher for sure, 64 bit development in itself is trivial and transparent. Legacy code, or code depending on third party libraries, is usually the problem. Generating 32 and 64 bit binaries is just a matter of recompiling the executables, using different front ends. Both Microsoft Visual Studio and GNU g++ allow to do this just by switching a flag on or off.

My personal theory is that they have legacy essential code at the very heart of the engine which is "broken" by the 64 bit version of the compiler - stuff like assuming that void* is represented with the same number of bytes as an integer, something not rare in C/C++ systems in the 1990 s and early 2000s dealing with the problem of storing and loading complex object models from a binary file - which for whatever the reason has been deemed to be too expensive too rewrite or review.

But that's kicking the can down the road, and I guess that sooner of later they'll have to address that.

Bison · July 21, 2014, 09:00:15 AM

Other than offering a lower cost daily productivity os, I'm not even sure why 32 bit is even continued.

Nefaro · July 21, 2014, 09:06:55 AM

Quote from: RyanE on July 21, 2014, 06:26:04 AM

How many people still use a 32 bit gaming system here? I haven't touched one in probably four years myself.

There's no reason software companies should still be tied to the very limited RAM issues of 32-bit. I'd be surprised to see anyone still using hardware loaded with 32-bit OSes these days and running modern games, unless they were actively avoiding any remotely new operating system.

I've had 64 bit processors and OSes since around 2007. It doesn't sound like that long but it's a couple lifetimes in Computer Years. On the third desktop to be precise.

endfire79 · July 21, 2014, 11:37:11 AM

At work we switched to 64bit long time ago.

Yskonyn · July 21, 2014, 12:46:38 PM

Ignore this.. Read wrongly.

jomni · July 21, 2014, 05:39:55 PM

With regards to BFC, if they can continue to provide at top notch game in 32bit then, they can stay that way.
64bit machines can still run them anyway.

RyanE · July 21, 2014, 07:54:05 PM

The problem is that the 3Mb limit is already being hit in CM. That is why you see huge load times and crashes on some of the bigger scenarios. The main problem is that even some medium-sized scenarios can hit the limit if they run for a couple hours and have peaks where a ton of stuff is happening.

I have always suspected that the used the CM1 engine as a kernal for the new engine and that might be why they are reluctant to really dig into it.

jomni · July 21, 2014, 08:31:06 PM

Ah. I have not played a lot CMx2 except for CMSF and I'm not aware that their engine had already reached the limit.

FarAway Sooner · July 21, 2014, 10:53:44 PM

I just find upgrading my OS to be a big hassle. If I had a lot of free time, I'd enjoy the technical challenge, but with small kids and a demanding job, I'd just much rather spend time playing games than upgrading hardware and software.

That said, I am ordering 8 GB of RAM, a Solid State Flash drive, and a copy of Win 8 for my birthday. Lord only knows when I'll have the time to build it, but I'm gonna try!

Nefaro · July 22, 2014, 02:31:07 AM

Quote from: FarAway Sooner on July 21, 2014, 10:53:44 PM

That said, I am ordering 8 GB of RAM, a Solid State Flash drive, and a copy of Win 8 for my birthday. Lord only knows when I'll have the time to build it, but I'm gonna try!

Oh Damn. I'm so sorry.

That's the worst Microsoft OS released for PCs. It should've been limited to mobile touch devices, and not stuck into regular computers.

I have the urge to throw a pc with Windows 8 out the actual window every time I use that PoS OS. That's saying something, as I was a pc tech for about a decade and had never quite got to that point before, even with the most screwed up machines. I put Windows 7 on my most recent build. It's an efficient dream, not a uselessly obstructing and unintuitive piece of crap like Win8.

I recommend you save yourself the frustration and get Win7-64.

jomni · July 22, 2014, 02:52:32 AM

I find Win 8 totally fine and better than Win7. Blazing fast. Don't need a start menu either. That's old school.

What exactly do you dislike? My only complaint are driver issues.

Yskonyn · July 22, 2014, 03:40:41 AM

Just a little sidestep, not trying to go off topic too much; but I was reluctant to go to Win 8 as well, but I am glad I did.
I have no diver issues eventhough I have very recent hardware. The OS never crashes and runs much faster.
I did get rid of all the 'new' stuff though and made Win 8 into a Win 7 clone as far as desktop goes, but all else is fine.
Most games have higher FPS too. I like it. I just don't like the initial marketing push for the OS which was clearly focussed on mobile devices. With 8.1 there have been lots of love for PC users again.