News from Ukraine Conflict

[Staggerwing]

IIRC Antonov is a Ukrainian company. Ukraine also builds BTRs and some MiL helo models as well as some top-notch tank lines.

Suprise, suprise: most of those factories are in the eastern part of the country

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

How do you guys feel about this? What should NATO do if Putin goes all-in? What should the USA do?

What I think matters not a whit.

The US will do nothing.

I think people make a mistake if they think using military force is the only option here

As with all things it should be the option of last resort.  Unfortunately its been pulled out too often and too early in the last decade by the US and see where that has got us.

I also wonder what people think we can do?  Ukraine is not a NATO member there are no political agreements, prepositioned military supplies, long term cross training and even a stable local government.  Is that what you want to go and send your troops into?  Because if we do go in against Russia on their doorstep at the tail end of a logistical nightmare we will have thousands of US troops killed.  Russia is not some third rate military and we are in their backyard.

What we need to do is probably what we are doing as much as can be done behind closed doors.  Give the Ukranians the best intel they can get, provide drones and other military assets and work to see if there are diplomatic levers that can be pulled to wean the west off Russian gas.

Con

Overall I agree. One point though, the US, UK, and Russia DID sign an agreement to guarantee Ukraine sovereignty in exchange for them giving all their nukes to be dismantled. So IMO the Russian backstab to Ukraine demands that we never expect they will not do the same to us. And if their resources grow they are more likely to do it. NATO badly needs to solve the threat of their missiles or expect to be told "look the other way or else" at every turn. 

Yes, Russia saw the 'threat' of Ukraine drifting to the EU as a potential loss of influence. So what, they still have to respect international borders first.

The more Russia pushes, the more likely, long term, that NATO will come up with the means to break the country up. Good by Soviet empire dream. Puta can go down in history at that point as the guy that set up the destruction of their empire.

In the meantime their oil power only exists as long as there are buyers. If China sees them seizing Asia will they continue with their fuel agreement? Maybe not.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

A non-kinetic response might be to offer Ukraine membership in NATO.

However, that window has probably closed. At least for now.

At this point, not a chance.

Twenty years ago there was talk the "Partnership for Peace program" might eventually lead to membership. However NATO was already struggling trying to rebuild the East German, Polish, and the rest of the former Warsaw Pact nation armies.  There was also concern how the former Soviet Union would react.  And the Ukrainian people weren't very interested since rebuilding their military would have been very expensive.

As for sending weapons, did not realize  Ukraine exports over a Billion dollars of military hardware every year.  Starting to understand why Russia went for the land grab, if those factories are in rebel occupied areas.

After their desire for world glory I would say the Ukraine farmland is far more valuable than their factories. Russia can always make new factories. Most people are not aware that Ukraine is the European equivalent of the US and Canadian prairies. It gives them massive potential to grow food. Under Russian corruption of course it would still be useless. Even the lesser Ukraine corruption makes it useless. The potential is still there.

[LongBlade]

Well, they might be listening after all . They are simply not hearing us.

Ha! QFT

The lights are definitely on, but no one is home.

[LongBlade]

I'm thinking that the 'Russian armored column' the Ukrainians wasted was actually the vanguard of the supposed 1200 newly trained separatist and their 'gifted' armor that the Separatist leader promised was coming to his rescue from across the Russian border.

The last news I watched last night reported that the column was a bunch of BTRs. Supposedly they had been wiped out by mortars. It was just a quick glance but they appeared to be quite large - 120 mm.

[Staggerwing]

Did it say how many vehicles appeared to be part of the column?

[LongBlade]

Did it say how many vehicles appeared to be part of the column?

If it did I forgot. Don't think I deleted it. Lemme see if I can find it.

[LongBlade]

Amy Kellog's report on Fox for Special Report:

"Several" BTRs. Ukraine claims they "took out most of them"

These were *not* the "aid" trucks.

NATO confirmed there was an incursion but claimed it was a continuation of events that have been transpiring. In other words, this ain't new news to folks who watch these things.

Red Cross will be inspecting the "aid" trucks soon. So far some inspections have taken place and found only legit aid like food.

The Pentagon indicated that it was doubtful mortars could have destroyed that convoy.

So all we really know is something happened, fire was exchanged, and maybe some vehicles were damaged. Maybe.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/14/us-ukraine-crisis-putin-military-idUSKBN0GE14020140814

Bets this will be the left hook force that moves north behind the Ukraine forces?

[LongBlade]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/14/us-ukraine-crisis-putin-military-idUSKBN0GE14020140814

Bets this will be the left hook force that moves north behind the Ukraine forces?

Dunno. He might be consolidating his grip on the peninsula in case Ukraine decides to try and take it back after the rebels are squashed.

[eyebiter]

.

[Staggerwing]

If I were the Ukes I'd mine the ever loving crap out of all the bridges and fordable crossings connecting Crimea to the mainland, just in case.

[GDS_Starfury]

I think its time to send in Gus.

[BanzaiCat]

I think its time to send in Gus.

And some phone books for him to sit on/stand on. Do we have any with the GH logo on them?

[LongBlade]

I think its time to send in Gus.

And some phone books for him to sit on/stand on. Do we have any with the GH logo on them?

We can give him markers to color them in with on the flight over.