Scottish Independence

[BanzaiCat]

http://scotreferendum.com/

[MikeGER]

i have sympathy for the Scottish!  its better to brake away before the Caliphate boroughs start spreading, interlock and unite in Great Britain's bigger cities ...and the Sharia Police is patrolling instead of the bobby
guess London's Tower Hamlets will be first. ::)

I prefer the sound of bagpipes over muezzin yelping anyday :)

[undercovergeek]

you havent witnessed weird until youve seen a news interview with a sikh in full beard and turban talking in a glaswegian accent

[JudgeDredd]

you havent witnessed weird until youve seen a news interview with a sikh in full beard and turban talking in a glaswegian accent

lol - true that.

You know - when I first came down to England in 1983, I couldn't believe the "foreign" accents on non-nationals. You know, the Jamaican accent or Nigerian accent or Indian accent...because in Glasgow, all the "non-nationals" I met had Scottish accents. I don't know if that's still teh case - but it was back then...so it was weird to hear non nationals with their home country accent.

[jejo68]

I just read that the polls are showing an almost even split on independence so this might become a very real thing.

What will happen to those who find themselves living on the side of the border opposite the one they were born on? Do they become citizens of the side they are on or do they become 'resident foreign nationals'? Do they get a one time choice of what they wish to be, English or Scottish?

Closer than ever. In fact there was a poll today showing YES with a majority...a small majority, but a majority none-the-less. And that from a poll that has consistently showed NO with a lead. So it most definitely is going to be a real possibility...I still think it'll be very close.

In terms of citizens, they will stay as they are. I, for example, live in England and will be British. However, as I was born in Scotland, I have the right to apply for a Scottish passport. I think my daughters would have to "apply" as would my wife as they were all born in England. Don't forget, even though the Better Together campaign would like everyone to think there would be a new border with border posts, security towers and god knows what else, there are "essentially" no borders in the EU. By that I mean I have as much right to live and work in France, Spain or Germany as I do in the UK. I presume the same will continue.

So anyone born in Scotland can apply and will automatically be granted Scottish citizenship and a passport. Others will have to apply as per normal.

I think  :P

English/EU citizens in Scotland can remain as English/EU citizens or, presumably, they can apply for Scottish citizenship.

I dont think that Scotland would automaticly be part of EU, remember some EU official stating that Scotland would have to apply. dunno and all the better for Scotland if your not member tbh.

[undercovergeek]

i would imagine if Scotland doestnt join the EU, England will sit and watch to see what happens with a very keen interest

[JudgeDredd]

I just read that the polls are showing an almost even split on independence so this might become a very real thing.

What will happen to those who find themselves living on the side of the border opposite the one they were born on? Do they become citizens of the side they are on or do they become 'resident foreign nationals'? Do they get a one time choice of what they wish to be, English or Scottish?

Closer than ever. In fact there was a poll today showing YES with a majority...a small majority, but a majority none-the-less. And that from a poll that has consistently showed NO with a lead. So it most definitely is going to be a real possibility...I still think it'll be very close.

In terms of citizens, they will stay as they are. I, for example, live in England and will be British. However, as I was born in Scotland, I have the right to apply for a Scottish passport. I think my daughters would have to "apply" as would my wife as they were all born in England. Don't forget, even though the Better Together campaign would like everyone to think there would be a new border with border posts, security towers and god knows what else, there are "essentially" no borders in the EU. By that I mean I have as much right to live and work in France, Spain or Germany as I do in the UK. I presume the same will continue.

So anyone born in Scotland can apply and will automatically be granted Scottish citizenship and a passport. Others will have to apply as per normal.

I think  :P

English/EU citizens in Scotland can remain as English/EU citizens or, presumably, they can apply for Scottish citizenship.

I dont think that Scotland would automaticly be part of EU, remember some EU official stating that Scotland would have to apply. dunno and all the better for Scotland if your not member tbh.

Yeah - I think that EU official was Jose Manual Barrosso - the President of Spain - who wouldn't want Catalonia to know that an independent Scotland could join the EU. Not that I'm saying he's got an alterior motive for saying what he said (much like alot of other officials that have stuck their beak in)...but just sayin' none-the-less  O:-)

I'm not really sure about EU membership - but it wasn't something that would be a high priority in making my mind up if I had a vote. In fact - ALL the BIG questions being used to scare people are not top of my reasons to vote yes or no should I have had a vote.

My yes/no vote would not be based on the currency being used, membership of NATO, membership of the EU, national security or the economy. All these things will work out - one way or another. The country is not going to sink into oblivion...nor, by the way, is it going to be a utopia in the next year.

Rome wasn't built in a day - and neither would a new independent Scotland.

[JudgeDredd]

i would imagine if Scotland doestnt join the EU, England will sit and watch to see what happens with a very keen interest

Absolutely...though I'm not sure enough info regarding benefit/detriment would be able to be extrapolated to be of any use before the referendum in 2017

[undercovergeek]

i would imagine if Scotland doestnt join the EU, England will sit and watch to see what happens with a very keen interest

Absolutely...though I'm not sure enough info regarding benefit/detriment would be able to be extrapolated to be of any use before the referendum in 2017

yeah, i would hope therell be some key pointers though

as an aside - what happens with scottish run companies who are already reliant/working in the EU - do they relocate south or have that part of their business shut off?

[JudgeDredd]

I have absolutely no idea.

I guess the businesses of Scotland would have some idea of the impact.

Scotland will be (apparently) applying to the EU with (again, apparently) little to no fuss based on the fact it has already been a member (albeit not as a new nation) for several decades and the fact that the EU would not reject Scotland based on Scotland using the UK/EU democratic system to employ a referendum on independence. It's (apparently again) going to look pretty poor show of the EU and it's Human Rights and all it's laws that it would refuse entry to a nation which was part of the EU simply because it is now an independent nation using political power instead of military power...something the EU is 100% behind and promotes

But I honestly have no idea.

[undercovergeek]

I have absolutely no idea.

I guess the businesses of Scotland would have some idea of the impact.

Scotland will be (apparently) applying to the EU with (again, apparently) little to no fuss based on the fact it has already been a member (albeit not as a new nation) for several decades and the fact that the EU would not reject Scotland based on Scotland using the UK/EU democratic system to employ a referendum on independence. It's (apparently again) going to look pretty poor show of the EU and it's Human Rights and all it's laws that it would refuse entry to a nation which was part of the EU simply because it is now an independent nation using political power instead of military power...something the EU is 100% behind and promotes

But I honestly have no idea.

i suppose my biggest point of curiousity is your armed forces - all those traditional scottish regiments that make up Englands forces will presumably be refounded north of the border leaving us short of those regiments, dunno about the navy or airforce - from a practical point of view in my head they seem to belong to England!

I imagine its no problem for European countries who share common borders with countries of a different opinion (country X sends forces to Iraq, country Y doesnt), but it will be odd to think theres ever a time England sends forces to wherever and Scotland could say 'not for us'

interesting times

[Gusington]

What % of forces does Scotland provide for the UK?

[JudgeDredd]

On defence, if you are to believe figures, then Scotland allegedly pays £2.5 billion towards the defence budget but receives £1.5 billion in military coverage (regiments, air force, navy). I'm sure that is likely exaggerated. Anyway, the SNP's argument, should the figures be correct, is that if an independent Scotland was to spend £1.5 billion, then it would be as protected as it is now and if it was to spend what it currently spends, £2.5 billion, then it would be better protected. I'm not sure that is the case in actual practical terms...but whatever.

The real point about defence was hammered out the other week in a debate. Where is the likely nuclear threat going to come from? Who exactly is going to invade Scotland to the point where they need to be armed to the gunnells. I thought those were sensible questions.

First off - nuclear. Who is going to attack Scotland with nuclear weapons. Ok...the argument currently going round is the bear is re-awakening. But really? Russia is going to perform a nuclear strike on Scotland? Highly unlikely - and even if it was the case, what would 240 nuclear warheads achieve? Not that Scotland has control of those anyway.

Next - who is going to invade Scotland that we need a huge army? Well...no-one. The Romans didn't want it and neither does anyone else.  :D

The real and true threat facing the UK (and other parts of the world) is terrorism and radicalism. More money for conventional forces and security and less on nuclear. That's my own personal view. Lets be honest, if the balloon goes up, everyone is going to come off bad - and I don't want to be around anyway!

I believe the plan for a SDF (Scottish Defence Force) will be for home defence and humanitarian grounds and NOT for projecting power. Having said that - they are apparently not going to take their requirement to guard the Iceland gap lightly. Currently, the UK has no areal coastal defence operating up there...nothing. From what I gathered that would be corrected if possible under a separate Scotland.

In terms of forces, I believe this would come down to assets and liabilities that would need to be worked out. Again, as an example and if you believe what you read, then the SNP claims that Scotland would be entitled to 6 Euro fighters, 3 fully operational and equipped infantry units with support units, 6 mine sweepers etc, etc... I don't know that's the case at all, and I certainly don't know about quantities...but the consensus is as Scotland has contributed in taxes to the current forces, then they would be entitled a share of those forces.

It all sounds one way - but I'm sure it's not - and indeed hope it's not. At the end of the day though, the argument is Scotland helped with where Britain is today (in assets and liabilities) and therefore a fair share of the liabilities and assets should be split...including the national debt.

But there are very, very complex and long negotiations to go through if a YES vote is the returned result.

The SNP reckon Scotland will be independent come March 2016. That's all well and good - but I reckon there will be bickering for many, many years about what belongs to who and who gets a share of what and how much.

Sorry for the long post.  :)

[JudgeDredd]

What % of forces does Scotland provide for the UK?

I don't know - but it's hard to know what's paid for by whom. As I said above...about £2.5 billion is used from Scottish taxation to go into the UK military bill and £1.5 billion is what it receives as a defence budget...if you believe the figures being chucked around

[GDS_Starfury]

its not so much that someone (russia) is going to attack Scotland with nukes but any nuclear attack on England is going to include Scotland.
and theres also the question of what happens with Holy Loch.  thats a lot of infrastructure to just give up but I do see the option of US/UK leasing deals.