Scottish Independence

[JudgeDredd]

Fair point - but as I said - if the balloon goes up, we're all fcuked anyway  ;D

And even if I wasn't, I wouldn't really want to be living in some post nuclear desolate world trying to rebuild shit and fighting for land and power...sod that. If a nuclear strike happens, I'll make my peace and god willing it'll be over quick.

I believe if there were to be a nuclear strike against the UK, it would come from a dirty bomb, or perhaps some Jihadist mentalist somewhere got hold of one - and I'll guarantee you something - if they did get one - they wouldn't give a crap how many the UK had - they'd still launch it.

That's why I say more on standard defence and security and less on nuclear. Put more money into surveillance and find out what's happening where - because a nuclear strike on the UK will likely be a single weapon and detonated locally.

[OJsDad]

Could Scotland seed Holy Loch to England.

[JudgeDredd]

I wouldn't have thought so.

The point (at least for the SNP's and one I firmly agree with) is to remove nuclear weapons from Scottish soil and, as a result, use the money elsewhere in the economy - not to give/sell/bargain (choose your option) land away

But hey - they're politicians - when have they ever stuck to anything they've said (any of them).

I reckon the SNP will blanket get rid of nuclear weapons. However, there is possibly another party coming into power in 2016 - so who knows, it's entirely possible a new government would reverse that decision and "rent" Faslane to the rUK...who knows what the future holds? 

[Boggit]

What gets me is the assumption of the SNP on the heavy reliance for the Scot economy of North Sea Oil. Whilst the sovereignty of land territory of Scotland is well established, maritime territoriality is not so, other than immediate coastal areas, which leaves ownership of oil platforms open to debate, especially as investment has come from the UK, and not an independent Scotland to date. I think that means there will be a lot of debate/concessions that will arise in any negotiations. If Scotland wants to leave the family of the UK, then why should the UK go out on a limb to help Scotland out? - it's not as though we have had any say elsewhere in the UK as to what we think of Scottish Independence, even though it's likely to effect us one way or another.

[JudgeDredd]

I would be very much for you having a vote. From what I gather, YES would be guaranteed then  ;)

You may well be mistaken in thinking that Scotland is relying on oil to boost it's independence. But I guess that depends on which side you want to listen to. I have listened, read, re-read and believe that the SNP plan to setup a fund to hold onto oil revenue for less lucrative years. But who knows ^-^

As for North Sea Oil. Borders for coastal "control" or sovereignty or whatever you want to call it apparently, according to international law, comes at 90 degrees from your land border. I don't know if that's true - though if it is, it's pretty cut and shut where the border is.

In terms of investment you are absolutely correct in that it was the UK Government who set up the initial investment and got the ball rolling...remember though that Scotland didn't have a government to go investing in the oil off it's own coast. It's not like Scotland had a government to be able to make the most of that resource. You have to also wonder where the hell the government has squandered those billions over the last 30 years.

However, given that investment was initially made by the UK, then I would expect that, given the split of assets and liabilities, that that initial investment would be taken into account...though it might well have been used to keep bankers warm over the years.

Regardless - as I said, there are very complex negotiations to carry on over the years

[jejo68]

as for military, £2.5B is about what Denmark spends and considering where about same size it should be enough.

What about economy, I havent got a clue as to what type of business you have up there. Service industry, banking, manufacturing etc ?

As for EU, well even if your not going to become members Theres always the option of Mutual trade agreements, which to me seems a much better solution anyways. Especially with the way EU is moving these days.

EDIT: wtf does this site keep insisting on using kapital letters all the time, it bugs the hell out of me having to go back and correct all the time, so no more you bitches  :)

[JudgeDredd]

as for military, £2.5B is about what Denmark spends and considering where about same size it should be enough.

What about economy, I havent got a clue as to what type of business you have up there. Service industry, banking, manufacturing etc ?

As for EU, well even if your not going to become members Theres always the option of Mutual trade agreements, which to me seems a much better solution anyways. Especially with the way EU is moving these days.

EDIT: wtf does this site keep insisting on using kapital letters all the time, it bugs the hell out of me having to go back and correct all the time, so no more you bitches  :)

lol - I have no idea what the problem is with the caps...no capital letters are forced here.

It was mentioned Scotland would have a similar budget to the Danes in the last debate I saw.

As for economy - well, that's one of the issues, isn't it. Thatcher and her Tory government systematically dismantled most of the manufacturing in the UK (not just Scotland). Most of the UK (and Scotland) is services/financial based now. I'm not going to totally omit any wrong doing by trade unions or the previous Labour government here - but still, they were in power for 18 years and there was a huge and swift change in the makeup of the UK's economy - to the huge detriment of large swathes of working class people.

I don't know what the plan is but the idea of an independent Scotland is to set attractive tax rates to entice businesses to set up in Scotland as opposed to the south east of the UK where there's better transport, better infrastructure, bigger incentives. To provide better "back to work" schemes that might actually work and may get people off benefits and into work with proper living wages and get rid of "zero hour" contracts and stop the slow eroding of people's rights in the workplace.

It's all pie in the sky really and all could change in successive governments in an Indy Scotland - but there's a chance to change the makeup of the nation.

[undercovergeek]

im not sure i understand the mass panic with offering Scotland incentives to stay now it looks like youll go

even Gordon Brown weighing in on the No vote

Do we not want Scotland to go because there are serious implications to England? to Scotland? or does the government simply not want to be the one in charge when the break up happened on their watch?

i dont think the move impacts me or mine in any way, i watch simply out of curiousity and hope you go, simply to see what happens next, i like the idea of a new flag for us, the next Scotland v England rugby/football match, watching the forces develop and seeing a new change to the UK

[Staggerwing]

Just out of curiosity, Does anyone know what the last English speaking nation to gain independence up to now was?

[JudgeDredd]

I hope for positives on all sides - I just can't wish bad on anyone - it's not in my makeup  >:(

I think UCG the "mass panic" is down to the fact they have been caught with their pants down. They have been complacent in the extreme (like most governments I've been aware of over the past 30 years) and as such will look utterly incompetent.

Will that matter to the public of the rUK? I don't think so - not to many anyway. Most people I speak to have genrally one of two views...
a) Scotland is a welfare burden with high unemployment and a growing elderly population and
b) If they don't want to be part of the UK anymore, then let them go

There is a third opinion, but in my own "wee poll" of people I speak to is much less the answer which is "It's be sad to see them go"...but that really is very low in any of the attitudes I come across (and for the record I'm not against any of those answers coming from anyone outside Scotland)

Attitude a) is definitely true. Scotland does have a high level of welfare and an ageing population - but those are things that an iScotland hope to reverse - again, over decades.
Attitude b) is definitely fair enough...and really, why cow tow to the Scots.

What the population of the rUK will want is a tough line on the negotiations after and who could/would blame them.

But it purely because they will have been seen to take their eye off the ball...they thought it was in the bag, and it's proving otherwise.

I now actually fear a NO vote (where I didn't before) because the animosity (which is already there) about what Scotland gets from the public purse will only grow with Devo Max. And I'll be left down here explaining (as I currently do) why Scotland has free education, why they have free prescriptions, why (in the future) Scotland has a free NHS system whilst England, Wales and NI have seen it whittled away.

Given attitudes to Europe in the UK, an iScotland will definitely be interesting as an experiment at least  ;)

[JudgeDredd]

Just out of curiosity, Does anyone know what the last English speaking nation to gain independence up to now was?

Australia, 1986?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_that_have_gained_independence_from_the_United_Kingdom

[Staggerwing]

I didn't know that. I'd assumed that the passing of the Statute of Westminster was when Australia became independent.

[JudgeDredd]

Hence the question mark. I was only going on what was fed to me by wiki - I didn't read further into it

[JudgeDredd]

This list seems more obvious

http://quizlet.com/12399613/list-of-countries-and-when-they-gained-independence-and-who-they-gained-independence-from-flash-cards/

Looking at the previous list, Australia was pretty much her own nation - seems the Australia Act was maybe just tidying things up.

If that's the case (same with Canada and New Zealand actually) then it would seem Ireland was the most recent English speaking country to gain independence in 1921

[endfire79]

I say:  ach, nae, thanks.

Lived through the threat of separation long enough here, really don't want them to get any more encouragement.
How little they realize that the natives would likely split afterwards as well, and then it would all look like the old Holy Roman Empire  :P