USA Needs Declaration of War

[Boggit]

I'm reluctant to contradict Airboy, for whom I have a great deal of respect. And I have to admit I'm not well-versed in the merits of either side of the debate.

But I do remember a bit of history.

The current situation has historical precedent.

Very early in our nation's history we fought two wars against Muslim radicals on the Barbary Coast. (They decided we were infidels, and therefore fair game to be pirated.) In the first one they declared war against us. We did not reciprocate, but did dispatch warships to shut them down. And we succeeded.

The second "war" was took place during the War of 1812 when they decided we were too weak/distracted to care what they did. Again we didn't declare war on them, and again we defeated them militarily.

This is early enough in our history that the Founding Fathers were still alive and kicking. I'm not up to speed on why no DoW was used - maybe the conflict was perceived as short/limited - I don't know. But there is clearly a precedent for the president dispatching force without a DoW in some instances.

Should we have one here? I'll run some traps and see what I can find.

You have to look at the founding of the UN. Members are not the ultimate law as nations regarding the use of force. Nations also cannot decide it is great when it suits their agenda, then ignore it when it does not. They can withdraw from it, going back to being the ultimate decider for their nation. Given Russia is going to be a spoiler it may make sense to modify the security council. Such as countries invading other countries have no power on the SC regarding that conflict.

While we have our issues with Russia over Ukraine and Syria, there is common cause between the West and Russia regarding IS. Don't forget that Russia is much, much closer to IS. Russia has also been the target of Islamist terrorism, so I doubt if they'd worry about the West having a slap at IS. Also Al Assad, and Israel is the enemy of IS. Given that the enemy of my enemy is my friend the irony is incredible. :o ;D

[LongBlade]

ACLU is asking for support in forcing Congress to vote on the issue: https://ssl.capwiz.com/aclu-action/issues/alert/?alertid=63314466&type=CA&ms=web_nationalsecurity_140917_BOR

[BanzaiCat]

After you finish writing it up we can slip it under the Capitol Building door in the early AM. Maybe one of the congresscritters will see it as he/she walks in. 

If they're not too busy ignoring their constituents and getting fellated by lobbyists, mind.

[Boggit]

After you finish writing it up we can slip it under the Capitol Building door in the early AM. Maybe one of the congresscritters will see it as he/she walks in. 

If they're not too busy ignoring their constituents and getting fellated by lobbyists, mind.

Oh dear. It sounds like the US may be about to start getting Independence movements for almost the same reason Scotland has. ;)

[bayonetbrant]

some thoughts on the matter

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-will-obama-needs-congress-to-approve-this-war/2014/09/17/26de9d3e-3dc9-11e4-b0ea-8141703bbf6f_story.html

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Did the decline of the Roman Republic encourage people to think more unilaterally leading to the Roman Empire? If the politics has become so toxic that the Prez thinks anything he does will be blocked for spite, will it lead to a culture of presidents taking more and more unilateral action? Once they become accustomed to the position their tendency is to believe whatever they want is right for the country after all. The decline must be due to the assholes blocking everything. I am not just talking about this Prez. They are all going to react the same to that situation. All through time.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Actually, Gollum, on the other side of the planet, is doing the same thing, moving to Empire.

[airboy]

Did the decline of the Roman Republic encourage people to think more unilaterally leading to the Roman Empire? If the politics has become so toxic that the Prez thinks anything he does will be blocked for spite, will it lead to a culture of presidents taking more and more unilateral action? Once they become accustomed to the position their tendency is to believe whatever they want is right for the country after all. The decline must be due to the assholes blocking everything. I am not just talking about this Prez. They are all going to react the same to that situation. All through time.

The US House passed a bill providing funding for arming the "moderate" Syrian insurgants with bi-partisan support from both parties.  Because they debated and voted, a lot of issues were discussed that would not have otherwise been covered.

Still, wars never turn out as you think they will.  And it is almost impossible to have "advisors" and "air power" and not have troops killed - even though this may be in small numbers.  This is one of the reasons why I think a DoW is so important.

[GDS_Starfury]

because arming radical muslims has worked so well in the past..... 

[eyebiter]

.

[LongBlade]

Departing Afghan President Hamid Karzai blames the United States in his farewell speech
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/24/world/asia/hamid-karzai-afghanistan.html?_r=0

Saw that last night. What a douche.

[GDS_Starfury]

on the upside I dont think he'll survive long.

[Gusington]

Karzai is a total d-bag.