Red Thunder v1.01 patch (PC/Mac) Released

[JudgeDredd]

Well put Elvis - even with your big daft thumbs on your dead sexy phone  ;)

But it is the customer who is left to be batted between company x and company y. At the very least, both company's should get their heads together and fix it for the customer. Once again - as the customer - it really shouldn't be my job to get your software working with another piece of software on my machine.

GR - I guess (and who knows) we suspected it's the DRM because, as Tuna mentioned, it's likely not the program doing anything suspicious - it's likely the DRM doing something naughty. On top of that, their DRM has been the usual suspect in previous problems.

But I suppose that's not been proven

[Grim.Reaper]

Well put Elvis - even with your big daft thumbs on your dead sexy phone  ;)

But it is the customer who is left to be batted between company x and company y. At the very least, both company's should get their heads together and fix it for the customer. Once again - as the customer - it really shouldn't be my job to get your software working with another piece of software on my machine.

GR - I guess (and who knows) we suspected it's the DRM because, as Tuna mentioned, it's likely not the program doing anything suspicious - it's likely the DRM doing something naughty. On top of that, their DRM has been the usual suspect in previous problems.

But I suppose that's not been proven

Sure anything is possible, I am just saying that other games cause the same issues with AV and they don't use this DRM.  I actually suspect it is something else personally, but of course I don't specifically know what:)

[RyanE]

This has been a known issue for sometime. Whether its the DRM or something else.  If its only one or two AVs had the issue, I say its the AVs.  But the number of AVs that consistently have the issue and the number of complaints about it all the way back to CMSF point to thinking this is a BFC issue.  I have only used Steam a couple years but have never had the issue.  Every AV i have used...AVG, McAfee, Norton, MS Defender and Essentials, has quarantined BFC exe files.  Nothing definitive, but sure seems to point at BFC.

[Grim.Reaper]

This has been a known issue for sometime. Whether its the DRM or something else.  If its only one or two AVs had the issue, I say its the AVs.  But the number of AVs that consistently have the issue and the number of complaints about it all the way back to CMSF point to thinking this is a BFC issue.  I have only used Steam a couple years but have never had the issue.  Every AV i have used...AVG, McAfee, Norton, MS Defender and Essentials, has quarantined BFC exe files.  Nothing definitive, but sure seems to point at BFC.

Again, I am sure some people have had issues but I would equally say other people have not had issues.....in forums, you usually read about people that have problems, not people that have success.  I am in the later camp, never had an issue with Norton and BFC (nor really any other games) so it is not a global issue with everyone.  And if the issue is the fact the file gets quarantined during download, then that really can't be the DRM since the program is not being executed at that time.  I believe a lot of AV nowadays use risk/trust/reputation scores on files to determine if a "possible" risk to catch them before they become real problems, which causes the false positives.  It is certainly possible the way BFC compiles their game for distribution lends itself to the issue or more likely the case is the company's games are so niche with a small amount of users, all these AV programs give it low risk/trust/reputation scores where they then proactively protect against it.  The good thing with most AV, you can easily implement quick rules to make exceptions for these files, assuming your willing to trust them.

[RyanE]

I have never had the installer quarantined.  It has only been the exe or module file quarantined during install, first run, of update.  I also think it has something to do with the OS and its configuration.  Since I upgraded to 8.1 from 8.0, I haven't had the issue.

I also think you are right about the volume relative to other games.  But to me, that is a developer issue.  Every AV has guidelines they share about how to not trigger events.  There is something in BFC's games that set those events off.

[Grim.Reaper]

I have never had the installer quarantined.  It has only been the exe or module file quarantined during install, first run, of update.  I also think it has something to do with the OS and its configuration.  Since I upgraded to 8.1 from 8.0, I haven't had the issue.

I also think you are right about the volume relative to other games.  But to me, that is a developer issue.  Every AV has guidelines they share about how to not trigger events.  There is something in BFC's games that set those events off.

I could be wrong, but i don't think most games, including bfc really trigger an event to cause the quarantine, I still think it is more about how little downloaded and used this niche game files are which make them less trusted by all the av software.  Plus, your more likely to get this type of issue in the early days of a release since even smaller awareness of the game.  Maybe bfc and other game companies could somehow proactively register their games with all av companies to lessen that from happening, not sure if that is an option for smaller companies or not.

[RyanE]

I play some pretty niche games.  I run CMBB and CMAK with no issues.  There is something in particular with BFC games.  I run tiller games.  I run Matrix games.  I even run SES games and if anything would trigger an AV reaction its the dial home DRM of that game.  None have ever had an issue.  I have used at least 6 laptops in the last 5 years.  I have to exclude BFC games on every single one except the win 8.1 machine.  That is using AVG, McAfee (work computer) and Windows Defender.  My son uses Avast and has I had the issue with CMBN on that one.

[Grim.Reaper]

I play some pretty niche games.  I run CMBB and CMAK with no issues.  There is something in particular with BFC games.  I run tiller games.  I run Matrix games.  I even run SES games and if anything would trigger an AV reaction its the dial home DRM of that game.  None have ever had an issue.  I have used at least 6 laptops in the last 5 years.  I have to exclude BFC games on every single one except the win 8.1 machine.  That is using AVG, McAfee (work computer) and Windows Defender.  My son uses Avast and has I had the issue with CMBN on that one.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree since neither of us really knows what is happening behind the scenes:)  Either way, only takes a couple of extra seconds to configure your AV to trust games that may by default trigger alarms but I understand not everyone can quickly do that.

Back to the game discussion...did see some folks indicating the patch may not have fully fixed the building entry issue and the developer stating it might not have been caught in all spots....

[Elvis]

Back to the game discussion...did see some folks indicating the patch may not have fully fixed the building entry issue and the developer stating it might not have been caught in all spots....

Oh man, if that's true I know a certain programmer that will be looking for a bridge to take a leap off of. :)

[Tuna]

This has been a known issue for sometime. Whether its the DRM or something else.  If its only one or two AVs had the issue, I say its the AVs.  But the number of AVs that consistently have the issue and the number of complaints about it all the way back to CMSF point to thinking this is a BFC issue.  I have only used Steam a couple years but have never had the issue.  Every AV i have used...AVG, McAfee, Norton, MS Defender and Essentials, has quarantined BFC exe files.  Nothing definitive, but sure seems to point at BFC.

Again, I am sure some people have had issues but I would equally say other people have not had issues.....in forums, you usually read about people that have problems, not people that have success.  I am in the later camp, never had an issue with Norton and BFC (nor really any other games) so it is not a global issue with everyone.  And if the issue is the fact the file gets quarantined during download, then that really can't be the DRM since the program is not being executed at that time.  I believe a lot of AV nowadays use risk/trust/reputation scores on files to determine if a "possible" risk to catch them before they become real problems, which causes the false positives.  It is certainly possible the way BFC compiles their game for distribution lends itself to the issue or more likely the case is the company's games are so niche with a small amount of users, all these AV programs give it low risk/trust/reputation scores where they then proactively protect against it.  The good thing with most AV, you can easily implement quick rules to make exceptions for these files, assuming your willing to trust them.

The thing is.. Trusting crap left and right is not a good habit to get into.. you might run into a company that you "Shouldn't have trusted"

[Grim.Reaper]

This has been a known issue for sometime. Whether its the DRM or something else.  If its only one or two AVs had the issue, I say its the AVs.  But the number of AVs that consistently have the issue and the number of complaints about it all the way back to CMSF point to thinking this is a BFC issue.  I have only used Steam a couple years but have never had the issue.  Every AV i have used...AVG, McAfee, Norton, MS Defender and Essentials, has quarantined BFC exe files.  Nothing definitive, but sure seems to point at BFC.

Again, I am sure some people have had issues but I would equally say other people have not had issues.....in forums, you usually read about people that have problems, not people that have success.  I am in the later camp, never had an issue with Norton and BFC (nor really any other games) so it is not a global issue with everyone.  And if the issue is the fact the file gets quarantined during download, then that really can't be the DRM since the program is not being executed at that time.  I believe a lot of AV nowadays use risk/trust/reputation scores on files to determine if a "possible" risk to catch them before they become real problems, which causes the false positives.  It is certainly possible the way BFC compiles their game for distribution lends itself to the issue or more likely the case is the company's games are so niche with a small amount of users, all these AV programs give it low risk/trust/reputation scores where they then proactively protect against it.  The good thing with most AV, you can easily implement quick rules to make exceptions for these files, assuming your willing to trust them.

The thing is.. Trusting crap left and right is not a good habit to get into.. you might run into a company that you "Shouldn't have trusted"

That's why you have the choice to trust or not.  Some layers of the security give you extra protection if you choose to take its advice.

[RyanE]

I just opened up my AV exclusion app and BFC folders are the only ones in there.  I remove anyone of them and they are immediately quarantined. 

[Grim.Reaper]

Back to the game discussion...did see some folks indicating the patch may not have fully fixed the building entry issue and the developer stating it might not have been caught in all spots....

Oh man, if that's true I know a certain programmer that will be looking for a bridge to take a leap off of. :)

Looks bfc has already figured out this issue...just will have to wait for an update.

[Boggit]

You know I was going through all my Battlefront games and checking them on the BF site to make sure I had the latest versions of the ones I had and I suddenly realised I had Market Garden.

You have an illness as a wargamer when you have games you didn't know you had!  :-\

No, I've had that sort of 'senior moment' before. But when that epiphany dawns on you that you've got a new game, well 'new' to you anyway - it's like being a kid again getting a present! O0

[Boggit]

I feel for poor old Elvis here. I've had issues in the past with Norton and BFC, but you can fiddle about with Norton to get round things. I've also had issues in the past with the BFC DRM, and I'm no fan of it. What I can say, is that whenever I've had a problem with it, Elvis has always been very quick to respond, and put a fix in. I realise that the DRM is a pain, but while BFC see it as important, it's just a fact of life if you want to play BFC games. At least Elvis is there when things go belly up.