The Uber Warhammer 40,000: Armageddon Thread!

[Jarhead0331]

My response wasn't 'heated' I simply explained why for me your conclusion is not in harmony with the description of your actual game experience, that's all. But I don't think I want to waste my time with your silly assumptions anymore what my motivations regarding this game are or might be and for the record you are aggressive and insulting.

But his response was a bit too off putting for me. I don't have to tolerate that on my own site.

Oh, the owner is speaking, admin mode on now...ok, you are of course right, you don't have to tolerate my opinion on your site.

Good bye.

Don't let the door bump you in the ass on the way out.

[Jarhead0331]

Grim and I have squashed this privately. Let's all move on and get back to discussing the game! That means ALL sides, pro and con!

[Apocalypse 31]

One thing worth debating is Slitherines continued use of the Panzer Corps and Battle Academy game engines.

I enjoy both games, but this seems a little....recycled.

The developers have said that it's not a panzer corps mod, but reviews say otherwise.

[JasonPratt]

 :o :-\

Right, so, back to game mechanic discussion. After playing longer I can correct some of my misimpressions about morale and ammo usage:

1.) Morale and ammo seem to be conflated together currently in a highly abstract mechanic illustrated by a unit's remaining group numbers degrading from white down through yellow and orange to red, based on how much combat they've been in recently (and maybe some other factors, maybe also with respect to an inherent morale and/or ammo base of the unit so that some units don't degrade as easily). As the color drops the unit changes from a few bonuses to no bonuses to increasing debuffs. I don't think a unit simply fails to attack or defend per se, but the debuffs may represent that in a way.

2.) The only way to gain this unit cohesion or morale or resupply (or all this together) is to "Rest and refit", which can only be ordered if the unit has not moved or fought already this turn. Unlike most PGish games, THIS IS NOT ALL RECOUPED IN ONE TURN! For a PGish game, this is utterly crucial, because a unit might take four or five turns before being back to full supply (or whatever) -- and like all such games most maps expect units to move with quick progression. A red-ed unit might as well be completely out of the game, unless the maps are small. (In related news, the maps are reportedly small; I've only been playing tutorial so those are the only maps I've seen like early in a standard Panzer General game.)

3.) Unlike every other PGish game I can recall ever playing, reinforcements do not seem to help the "supply" mechanic in the slightest. In other words if I retreat a red-numbered unit which has taken high damage, at the start of the next turn I can reinforce or resupply but not both, which adds at least one more turn to recovering unit cohesion. This, I believe to be a design miss-step in a game based on PG mechanics demanding the player manage a blitzkrieg rate of advance (which of course the original game was simulating by means of its design rules). At the very least the game should be reprogammed, if possible, so that a reinforce will improve morale by one step. Personally I would recode it to improve morale proportionate to the fraction of units restored by the reinforcement and/or in proportion to clear distance to cities or victory points or whatever. (The original Panzer General used similar coding to affect just how much resupply or resupply-and-reinforcement would be obtained on a request; and subsequent variations have typically followed suit, including the FantasyWars/ElvenLegacy game.) There is certainly no "fluff" reason why reinforcements shouldn't be bringing their own ammo resupplies and at least some morale improvement!

4.) Pursuant to something mentioned by Jarhead: while the PanzGen style might work well for Space Marine chapters and maybe some other combat groups (like the eldar) who carefully nurse and minimize losses while moving quickly, thus leveling up core units relatively consistently between missions; the Imperial Guard (and the Orks for that matter) naturally involve high casualty rates for most of their unit types, which they offset through numbers including rapid reinforcement. It feels weird to be moving three squads of infantry around the map between missions and trying hard not to lose any of them and mostly succeeding. If I were playing World War 2 Germans, or Space Marines, this wouldn't seem so odd.

(That being said, once the tutorial opponents started shooting back, I started losing whole units, though not any infantry yet, only a scout walker and an upgraded leman russ platoon.)

[JasonPratt]

The developers have said that it's not a panzer corps mod, but reviews say otherwise.

I think accurately it's a very extensive total conversion mod, in effect.

What they're trying to say is that it isn't a simple reskin of the Panzer Corps engine.

[Lord Zimoa]

This made me smile this morning.

Thank you guys was great to watch this, as you understand the game, love, research and work we all put into it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmsTt-EXEL4

[Jarhead0331]

4.) Pursuant to something mentioned by Jarhead: while the PanzGen style might work well for Space Marine chapters and maybe some other combat groups (like the eldar) who carefully nurse and minimize losses while moving quickly, thus leveling up core units relatively consistently between missions; the Imperial Guard (and the Orks for that matter) naturally involve high casualty rates for most of their unit types, which they offset through numbers including rapid reinforcement. It feels weird to be moving three squads of infantry around the map between missions and trying hard not to lose any of them and mostly succeeding. If I were playing World War 2 Germans, or Space Marines, this wouldn't seem so odd.

(That being said, once the tutorial opponents started shooting back, I started losing whole units, though not any infantry yet, only a scout walker and an upgraded leman russ platoon.)

It does get harder. I'm pretty deep into the First Act and I've run into a pretty severe wall. I'm trying to take a number of bridges and the Orks are doing quite well at holding me back. I've already sustained several painful losses of units that have been with me since the very beginning.

[JasonPratt]

Here's LordZ's recent video link embedded for convenience.

This is a (p)review by British internet reviewers Unit Lost, and they love the Tabletop game, so it's interesting to see them compare this favorably to tt. They definitely geek heavily over the fluffiness of the utterly massive unit roster. ("And now we've got tanks..." "JESUS CHRIST!"  :D )

I've now started the campaign, and I definitely recommend doing the tutorial campaign first in order to build up core company first according to one's playstyle.

Here as a writer I'll complain a bit that the story development to this point could have been a lot better. The orks apparently landed during the tutorial but suddenly the characters are talking about them maybe even doing flybys and yet I'm still fighting a fellow newb commander for training who is executed offscreen but replaced with apparently no character at all so... why bother with that in-story??

[Micha]

Hello,
i have just purchased the game and let me say for me ist one of the best i ever had.

[JasonPratt]

Here's TotalBiscuit's review -- he's a 40K fanboi, too, and likes the game, but is more restrained and critical.

[Grim.Reaper]

I purchased too...liking so far,play more this weekend...

[panzerde]

The Unit Lost review is enthusiastic enough to make me consider plunking down the $30. I'm encouraged that JH is finding the going more challenging.


Thanks for posting the TotalBiscuit review Jason. Going to watch that now.

[Zonso]

Yes thank you all who have provided more detailed insights into the game and it's mechanics. I have to admit watching these videos is making it increasingly difficult not to take the plunge so I can join in and push around some WH40K goodies also. :)

[PipFromSlitherine]

One thing worth debating is Slitherines continued use of the Panzer Corps and Battle Academy game engines.

I enjoy both games, but this seems a little....recycled.

The developers have said that it's not a panzer corps mod, but reviews say otherwise.

It doesn't even use the same codebase as Panzer Corps (to the point where it runs under DX9 rather than being a Windows application), just to provide information  :)

The BA engine is something of an easy lay it must be said, but she's so darned flexible...  >:D

Cheers

Pip

[Gusington]

Is a PDF manual included? If I've played PC is it even necessary? Is there a unit encyclopedia to read up on the units?