The Uber Warhammer 40,000: Armageddon Thread!

[JasonPratt]

The BA engine is something of an easy lay it must be said, but she's so darned flexible...  >:D

Best developer comment this season so far.  :))

Gus, a pdf manual is included; actually it's available for free several ways, and there was a link upthread somewhere.

I kind of recommend it, even though it is highly lacking in some key areas: the game does not play entirely like PGen or PzCor for that matter. Fortunately the manual is overly short, so it won't take long.  :P

There is no unit encyclopedia which is a crying shame since Games Workshop itself should have been able to provide something along that line even if the devs didn't have time. The unit count is ridiculously large, which is great but sometimes I have trouble guessing during gameplay what a unit will be able to do or not, especially on the orky side. I don't seem to recall right-mouse-clicking ever doing anything, so it would be REALLY REALLY NICE if that opened a detailed window on a unit with tooltips or something to remind about the icons.

Some of the game to be honest feels rushed for holiday/season release; not that the gameplay is broken in any way (that I've seen so far), but some polish is lacking. Other parts of the game drip strongly of long, hard work and wow that sentence sounded so different in my head before I typed it... 

Looking at it as the first game in a series, helps for me. I know the devs keep saying or implying 'we'll do better next time', and I know that sounds weak, but I think our hope can be well-grounded that they'll keep making better and better sequels, and I am legitimately excited to see what can be done with this engine because they have been able to do this much with the engine already! (My original emphasis in case anyone quotes it later. ;) )


Um, hey Jarhead (and/or some other admin/mods): could the thread be retitled to clarify current discussion going on, or perhaps split off posts into a new thread after we started being able to play the code (with a link in a final comment to the new thread)?

[bbmike]

I will not buy this game, I will not buy this game, I will not buy this game...

[JasonPratt]

The main example of what I mean about needing significantly more information, is spotting distances. A crucial tactic in this game is to hit the enemy from standoff (especially since the AI doesn't always use its units as threateningly as it should, so if they don't see you they don't go out probing and tend not to move around -- a recurrent problem with some though not all PGish games.)

But I have literally no idea how far any of the ork units can see. I've been having to make personal guesses and trying to remember what experimentally seems verified. I would have to look up information in my purchase screen for my own units, too, though from constant use it's easier to keep them in mind.

Some of the mission design is weird, in that it seems to assume AI strategies which don't happen. I'm playing normal, so maybe the AI has been crippled, but some clarity about that in choosing difficulty would have been nice. I just finished an escort mission where my path was flanked by some substantial enemies well outside their detection corridor for the most part, so they weren't collapsing in on me as I went (despite what the briefing suggested) and neither did they threaten to take my lone victory point although had I simply gone my way and not aggro'd the southwestern forces they could have easily done that. As it was I kept a decent force back since I didn't have to exit with all my troops, but if i hadn't accidentally triggered a bit of a surge by probing myself they would have never seen any action and could have supported my race down-road; and all I had to do to stop the surge was pull back out of their detection range (and/or kill the orks who could see me up there.)

I do think the AI was a little more sophisticated than that; a set south-central may or may not have been told to chase anything seen around the center of the map and so came up out of detection range, but still only so long as an enemy within a broad swatch elsewhere could see me. Once I got past that area new enemies didn't pull the enfilade shut. But I'm not sure: they may have simply seen an incautious scout of mine go by and followed it up until I killed enough of them that the group couldn't see me any more and then quit. My garrison sub-company eventually started sniping units for experience while the push continued, and the targets never moved at all even though they were being torn to pieces.

Again, this is admittedly a weakness of most PGish games. But not all of them.

(I hoped that helped, BBmike...  >:D )

[Jarhead0331]

The movement rules for aircraft need to be rewritten. Why can't aircraft fly over mountains or hills that are impassible to land vehicles? Also, aircraft move slower over terrain that generally slows land movement. These penalties should not apply in the air. 

[jomni]

The movement rules for aircraft need to be rewritten. Why can't aircraft fly over mountains or hills that are impassible to land vehicles? Also, aircraft move slower over terrain that generally slows land movement. These penalties should not apply in the air.

Agree.

[JasonPratt]

Christ -- I hadn't even picked up aircraft yet!  :P

But if I may complain about something kinda aircraft related: there is no logical reason whatsoever that a Salamander with four autocannons should be worse at attacking ground targets than a Salamander with one clearly MUCH less mobile autocannon (plus a heavy bolter on either model). Nor should it be worse at scouting, since it was designed to see and shoot aircraft at similar distances, on a platform originally intended to scout land targets at a distance for forward arty spotting (and for sniping with its own original single autocannon).

Granted, I could see it having significantly reduced armor, at least as far as the external visual design indicates. But I get the impression it's a weaker version of the standard scout Salamander (except vs air targets) only because IT WOULD BE GODLY if its function followed its form, and so would break the game balance.

Seriously. I have a bunch of regular old scout Sals right now, more of them than any other single unit in my company, and they have by far the most xp already. I love them so much, and have never bothered to upgrade them because aside from the walker (which even upgraded doesn't fight as well and doesn't seem any more mobile) it's the only unit so far which can see four hexes. I'd lose that upgrading them to anything nominally 'tougher', and I'm dubious I'd pick up more actually helpful firepower.


By the way, different complaint, and I have literally no idea why this wasn't implemented: but the units cannot be renamed. Not only does this fly in the face of just about every other iteration of Panzer General back to the original (and in the face of being able to customize 40K figures), but it looks kind of like provision was made to do that only it wasn't activated. Or maybe it ran buggy somehow in testing...?  ???

[Grim.Reaper]

Didn't get a ton of time to play tonight, but completed the first few tutorial missions of the campaign....just a few comments.

1)  I did not play Panzer Corps extensively in the past so no way an expert....but from what I do recall, this game does seem to have a "different feel" to it, even though you certainly can tell it uses PC as the foundation.....something just feels different to me, in a good way.

2)  Really like the sounds and graphics....I think they do just fine for a game like this.  Only thing that seems kind of strange to me is when the unit does fire, it really never fully faces its target, it just fires in the direction it is facing which sometimes makes it look awkward.

3)  I am not a Warhammer expert so I can't really critique on how well it models that universe but what I can tell you is that I am really enjoying the units, especially since they all seem unique, especially since a fresh concept for me versus playing a WWII game.

4)  The game certainly could do a better job in explaining the information in the game, although I'll be honest that I haven't read the manual fully so maybe some of it in there.  One thing I couldn't understand is why are all the stats not available to be seen within the game screen?  Seems like I have to go to the purchase screen to see full stats, unless I am missing an option to bring them all up.

5)  One thing I have to get better at is determining what is best to purchase and upgrade between missions...I'll have to study that more since I think it is important to have the right units to be successful in the missions.

Overall, enjoying it and I can only imagine it will continue to improve over time....I think part of the reason I am liking it compared to the other war games is that I really don't have a clue about the Warhammer universe so I can't really be overly critical of it and I have no idea if things are right or not......I am simply just enjoying it for what it is.  Even some of the tutorial missions stumped me the first time through so I believe the actual missions will certainly give me a challenge to maximize my enjoyment.

[Lord Zimoa]

Hi guys,

Apparently some of you may have missed the day one patch 1.0.1 for Warhammer 40,000: Armageddon.

Steam users are all fine as the release version was already 1.0.1.

If you purchased from Slitherine or Matrix and you are playing the non-Steam version, please check on your main menu screen in the right bottom corner what the game version number is. It should say v1.0.1.

If NOT I advise you to hit "check for update" in the launch menu and follow the instructions or download and install the patch 1.0.1 manual and direct from here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/540/downloads/

[Lord Zimoa]

1.00 to 1.01 Changelog:

Bugs Fixed:
-   [BUG] Restarting scenario during AI turn can lead to some strange effects (like AI playing your units).
-   [BUG] Purchase: select All factions, Artillery and Titan classes will be disabled, even though they are active when only Steel Legion is selected.
-   [BUG] Under some unknown circumstances Upgrade button behaves odd
-   [BUG] When choosing to upgrade a unit with transport, transport is not selected by default.
-   [BUG] FoW and Undo check boxes do not work when starting a campaign (work fine in single scenario mode)
-   [BUG] In MP first tab, click empty space where "Play" button normally appears. This will trigger scenario selection, and the program may get into bad state and crash.
-   [BUG] Entering non-ASCII characters into edit boxes results in unpredictable behaviour, from garbage in edit box to crash. Need to filter non-ASCII characters.
-   [BUG] It is possible to enter Tab symbol into login edit box. Login will succeed, but then MP flow will be broken.
-   [BUG] Items in accept challenge list overlap list bounds. See "too many mp games up overwrites text.jpg" in root folder. Need to check other MP lists as well.
-   [BUG] After surrendering a mission in MP, one can restart it via victory screen. This must not be possible,
-   [CTD] During deployment phase, select any unit in the list, press P.
-   [CTD] Start first scenario (Opening faults), open unit list, click transport icon of any non-selected unit
-   A number of issues on 1280x1024 resolution.
New Functionality:
-   Added version to starting screen
-   Added caret to all edit boxes
-   Added a number of new hotkeys
-   Clicking stat and ability icons displays information about them
-   Added tooltips to difficulty levels
-   Added unit special ability icons to the UI sidepanel
-   Improved presentation of AI moves
-   Added custom strength plates to special units
-   Added killed unit list
Unit Balance Changes:
Ork Kommandos have got their stickbombs back
Tankbustas gained Assault trait for their Tankbusta bombs
Skullhamma BattleFortress movement increased to 5 to better represent it's "supercharged triple-over-pressure turbo engine"
Deathrolla Battlefortress has had its Deathrolla weapon and Assault trait reinstalled
Price of many Ork Super Heavy tanks reduced slightly.
Traits 'notransport', 'titan', 'heavypull', and 'amphibious' have been added.
Notransport has been added to Rough Riders, Terminators, and Centurions
Amphibious has been added to Land Raiders
Land Raiders Hyperious and Helios have had their double quad Lascannons reduced to double doubles
Ork stormboyz have lost their ability to fly, but have gained increased movement speed to compensate
Titans can no longer enter Water hexes
Imperial Titans increased in cost
Stormsword and its 'upgrade' have been reversed for more logical unit progression.

Weapon file changes
All assault weapons now have a minimum Rate of Fire of 2. Some penetration weapons on assault weapons reduced to compensate.
Quake cannon gained indirect, bulky, and siege traits
Apocalypse Missile Launcher increased to rate of fire 6
Modified Bolter renamed to Combi Bolter
Gut buster Mega cannon increased to rate of fire 2
Volcano cannon range down to 4
Heavy Bolter Support and Shoota Support increased to Rate of Fire 4
2 Lascannons increased to Rate of Fire 2. Power, penetration, and weapon accuracy ratings all reduced
6 Lascannons increased to Rate of Fire 3
Demolisher cannon Rate of Fire increased to 4. Power reduced.
2 Flamers power reduced
Heavy Flamer power increased
Captain Tycho's Bloodsong now has proper ranged weapon stats
Grot Guided missile power and penetration increased
Scenario Changes:
CampScen4
Added river graphic
Campscen6B
Second AI Trigger now affects AI units on the entire map instead of just zone 2
Campscen7B
Fixed invisible settlement graphic
CampScen11
Named one Warboss unit
CampScen14
Added bridge graphics
CampScen15
Removed invalid unit
CampScen19
Changed Escort AI from 'Move To' to 'Attacker'
Added one enemy Titan and some escorts
CampScen24
Fixed invisible settlement graphics
Multiscen8
Scenario now displays proper objectives when objectives are called up
MultiScen9
Scenario now displays proper objectives when objectives are called up
Gargantuan Squiggoth has lost his wheels

Other Changes:
Fixed Land Raider Achilles primary attack animation

[JasonPratt]

A quick strategic recommendation because I don't think this gets emphasized enough in-game or in-manual:

YOU SHOULD BRING AT LEAST TWO INFANTRY! -- better three. Some missions cannot be won without infantry, because some victory hexes are in buildings only infantry can enter.

Fortunately the game starts with two or three infantry (I forget which; I've got three right now). Don't lose them. Replace if you do.

Edited to add: attaching a transport to your infantry won't keep them from entering a building, unless you have to mech-up to get to the building. Then they can only enter next turn. This is a subtle point, which makes sense but can be easily overlooked. I haven't lost a mission that way yet, but I've been caught by surprise.

[JasonPratt]

Also, thanks to whichever ad/mod retitled the thread.  O0

(And to LordZ for posting the changelog for the day 1 patch. Yeek, that was a lot of brokenness! You've still got a few minor bugs to go, but nothing that horrible so far as I can tell...)

[Lord Zimoa]

This first release is the start of a games series, over the coming three years there will be much more content/updates/expansions/ etc. coming, but limited to the Armageddon Wars.

I cannot comment on what still is coming at this point just that this is the end of the beginning not the beginning of the end for this game series. So there will be much more coming and this is not one game but a planned game series.

And we always try, listen and add anything the community desires for as extra, missing or lacking features and ideas, like we did in the Panzer Corps series. If we can and get enough time this series will become better and bettter, there is is much we still want to add, improve and do...

[JasonPratt]

I hope fixing the flyer movement is on the list of things to do...  ;)

[JasonPratt]

This first release is the start of a games series, over the coming three years there will be much more content/updates/expansions/ etc. coming, but limited to the Armageddon Wars.

Oh. huh.

Well, okay, that makes sense initially anyway. After all, this particular game was based on a fairly traditional hex-and-counter boardgame which got a Chaos Attack expansion for the 1st War, and a 3rd War game against the Orks again -- but this time it escalates into the beginning of the dreaded Great Waaagh which threatens to unit all orks under one cohesive leadership, thus finally putting to the test the common belief that if the orks would stop fighting each other they could destroy all civilization in the galaxy (and the Ork gods could achieve parity or supremacy with other Chaos demons.)

It would be nice to see factions other than the Imperium (though the Sisters of Battle get pulled into the 3rd War early as well as most or all of the SM chapters), Chaos SM, and Orks in the game, though.

[jomni]

Are the Orks Australians?  I can't help but read these weapons with an Aussie accent.

Rockit Launcha
Slugga
Choppa
Big Shoota
Krusha Kannon