St. Louis Riots

[JasonPratt]

Frankly folks, I am ashamed to be an American. There is no more common sense. We have become a country where disagreement has become- not a learning experience- but grounds for seeing the worst motives in people. We are so polarized that fact and evidence are only useful if it is convenient. There is no seeing anything from someone else's shoes. Its all about demonizing those you disagree with. I am a centrist and I feel like I have no place in this country.

Every time I get depressed thinking about that, I remember this has really always been true in United States politics.

Then instead of being more depressed about it, I think about how far we've been able to come (and Western Civilization generally) despite that.  :)

[bayonetbrant]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2014/nov/25/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-annotated

excellent annotation of the prosecutor's speech

I don't agree with everything they said, but they really dig into it line by line and pull out a lot of details

[LongBlade]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2014/nov/25/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-annotated

excellent annotation of the prosecutor's speech

I don't agree with everything they said, but they really dig into it line by line and pull out a lot of details

Clearly the 24 hour news cycle was unproductive.

[JasonPratt]

Going back to this a minute, I counted at least 3/7 maybe 4/8 of the photo'd looters being as white as I am, maybe whiter.

(I say "maybe whiter" because I doubt any of them have ever avoided being detained for questioning by being demonstrably too stupid to be an Iranian terrorist.  ;) But I have an amusing story in that regard.)

Mom said they probably came in from out of the area in order to join the fun.

[LongBlade]

Excellent observation, Jason!

[Steelgrave]

I don't see many work boots being taken.......just sayin'.

[BanzaiCat]

Good point, Steelie. A good set of steel-toed boots is freakin' expensive!

[LongBlade]

I don't see many work boots being taken.......just sayin'.

That's probably because guys who need work boots were working the third shift when that pic was taken.

[Nefaro]

Charles Barkley weighed in on the situation.  I wonder if he'll be demonized by the usual suspects for alluding to the real underlying cultural problems and the ridiculously biased handling by the media.


Why Charles Barkley supports the Ferguson grand jury decision


Former NBA star Charles Barkley recently called Ferguson looters "scumbags," praised police officers who work in black neighborhoods, and said he supports the decision made by the grand jury not to indict officer Darren Wilson in the Michael Brown shooting.

During an interview on 97.5 The Fanatic in Philadelphia on Tuesday, the day after the Ferguson decision was announced, host Mike Missanelli asked Barkley about it and why "black America" doesn't trust the ruling.

His response surprised some listeners.

"The true story came out from the grand jury testimony," Barkley said, adding that he was made aware of "key forensic evidence, and several black witnesses that supported Officer Darren Wilson's story..." He continued, "I can't believe anything I hear on television anymore. And, that's why I don't like talking about race issues with the media anymore, because they (the media) love this stuff, and lead people to jump to conclusions. The media shouldn't do that. They never do that when black people kill each other. "

He also called those who rioted after the decision was announced "scumbags," and said "There is no excuse for people to be out there burning down people's businesses, burning down police cars."

And in a marked departure from other prominent black leaders who have questioned tactics used by officers and, in some cases, accused officers of racial profiling and outright racism, Barkley supported police officers, especially those who work in black neighborhoods.

"[W]e have to be really careful with the cops, because if it wasn't for the cops we would be living in the Wild, Wild West in our neighborhoods," he said. "We can't pick out certain incidentals that don't go our way and act like the cops are all bad.... Do you know how bad some of these neighborhoods would be if it wasn't for the cops?"

His comments are in sharp contrast with those made by other black leaders on the Ferguson case. Rev. Al Sharpton and civil rights activist Jesse Jackson have both criticized the Ferguson decision and racial profiling by police. President Obama is scheduled to hold meetings with civil rights groups Monday on law enforcement and how to rebuild trust in black communities.

cont..

http://news.yahoo.com/why-charles-barkley-supports-ferguson-grand-jury-decision-163736319.html

[BanzaiCat]

Of course he won't be demonized. He's black, so he has a free pass to talk about it that frankly...and to be considered seriously by some media.

Frankly I think he's a great guy for not being afraid to speak his mind. I'm glad he's able to weigh in with some common sense stuff and calling out those a-holes in the media for being instigators in this sh!t.

[Steelgrave]

Barkley will be labeled an "Uncle Tom" before the last fire burns out in Ferguson. It's like you can't be black and be a Republican, it's simply not tolerated by the masses. Viewpoints which don't support the race baiter's agenda are to be dismissed, scorned or attacked, all with the compliant help of the boot-licking media.

[bayonetbrant]

This is from a former colleague in the SC ARNG.  He's a full-time cop when he's not globe-hopping in the reserves

I was never in Ferguson, nor did I see what happened, but I will say that during a period of 8 years, I fought to retain my sidearm 6 times from an "unarmed" person. It only took once to put a .45 hollow point in my side. I was hardly "under-trained," and had experience as a patrol officer and SWAT officer in real world "street fighting" where there's no "tap outs." Last week, a police officer was murdered in New York in precisely the same fashion of the assault in Ferguson as he dismounted his vehicle. Maybe he didn't have the time to take action, or maybe he had second thoughts on a more appropriate level of force...we'll never know. From my foxhole, there is a whole lot of demand by the public for "cookie cutter" results a'la "Blue Bloods," or name your city fantasy crime scene tech, from these lethal force encounters. You can't treat stuff like this as a battle drill, or a clean flowchart as in a scene from TV crime drama, It is rarely clean and antiseptic. Well, you can treat it like a battle drill, in that attempting to grab a police officer's sidearm will get you shot. I don't think that is the answer, though. 5 of my six assailants never got shot, but met Mr. H&K or Mr. Glock after getting a violent physical pounding to retain the weapon and stop the assault. The 6th was beaten into the ground by myself and three others as I was bleeding to death. You couldn't have shot without hitting an innocent bystander at a crowded mall.

The training is there. What is missing from the debate is the fact that the criminal suspect has a vote. Not only does he have "A" vote, he has "THE" vote whereas the officer has to react to it. There's no criminal OPFOR task, conditions, and standards like in the MTP. You can try to anticipate the actions of the irrational, the drunk, the drugged, the crazed, and the sociopaths. You can try to rationalise what they do. Sometimes you come out on top. Sometimes you don't. Key here is that the suspect makes a choice in how things turn out.

Although there is allowance for a police officer to retreat, in practice and fact there isn't. In practice, you aren't allowed to by the public, your body politic, and the media. Tactically, removing yourself may lessen the problem, as in the case of an emerging block riot. Let the 10 knuckleheads burn themselves out and clean up the mess when people defend themselves. One damaged place and a few idiots hurt versus a neighborhood in flames. The math works out. The problem is, is that when someone gets hurt, you "failed" to do your job, and the federal lawsuit is a 'comin, your agency and you are villified in the press, and your head is demanded on a platter. The same as if you did the worst possible thing. This has led to extreme micromanagement of agencies by elected officials, "activists," and legal staffs with the luxury of "Monday Morning Quarterbacking." The fallout of this is extreme paralysis of the law enforcement agencies, who have basically been relegated from thinking on the spot, to being little more than "meat robots" in many areas. Only the most dynamic and outspoken police executives have been able to resist this in their jurisdictions.

The leadership of the department has a very big vote in how things are handled quickly, fairly, and openly. The same applies to the civil elected leaders. When you have a department and a body politic who act like there's something to hide, you kill public trust, and create the issues that we are seeing now. Coupled with the dominant public philosophy of "truth is what I want it to be," the department and civil leadership must be the first with the most accurate facts and control the narrative....just like in theatre. The public deserves the truth, and should get it.

I don't mean to lecture, but the bottom line is this: "The people have gotten what they asked for." The politicians listened. They don't want liberty as defined by our 1000 year old Common Law heritage. They want license. They want stuff. They sure as heck don't want you standing in their way, and as long as they keep voting, the politicians are on their side. You will find more conservative constitutionalists under the badge of all races than not. Sadly, these agencies do not write the laws, nor set policy. When you have a public ethos of a petulant 5 year old in our society. the best that you can do is try to protect those who don't want to be a victim.

[BanzaiCat]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2014/nov/25/ferguson-grand-jury-decision-annotated

excellent annotation of the prosecutor's speech

I don't agree with everything they said, but they really dig into it line by line and pull out a lot of details

Excellent, except they misspelled "excuse" in there.

[Gusington]

Sir Charles is The Man.

[GDS_Starfury]

Gus is 6"4"