News from Ukraine Conflict

[Centurion40]

So lets see, at the beginning of WWII Hitler annexed Austria. Then he used protecting German minorities as a pretext to annex part of Czech, then invade Czech.

The reason Russia is still playing this game must be they see a way forward. I bet it will be, the collapse of the economy will be used to say democracy is not working, they must become a totalitarian state. Vlad the terrible or Vlad the mad will be the guiding light back to a great Empire. Such a scenario would demand great media theatrics. Wow the people with showmanship, they will not care that none of it makes sense.

If this really is history repeating itself, then Pawel is right, Czar/Premier Putin needs a bloody nose.  The problem is that the Russkies will spin it as our imperialist aggression, and he will gain more popular support.

[Staggerwing]

Worrying about his popular support in-country is not what we should be focused on. If what the West does to deter him leaves him looking lesser in the eyes of the Russian public more so the better but he needs to be stopped even if it makes him more popular. A Cult of Putin might help him somewhat at home but he will never create a full-blown Stalinist State on the order of North Korea.

I doubt Russians will ever again sink to those depths of extreme deprivation required for his end-game ambitions now that they have had at least a taste of the better life. The 'middle management' will collectively act against him when it has lost enough blood and treasure of it's own to his imperial adventure. He does have the potential to cause great harm to both Europe and Russia before the hammer drops on him.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Worrying about his popular support in-country is not what we should be focused on. If what the West does to deter him leaves him looking lesser in the eyes of the Russian public more so the better but he needs to be stopped even if it makes him more popular. A Cult of Putin might help him somewhat at home but he will never create a full-blown Stalinist State on the order of North Korea.

I doubt Russians will ever again sink to those depths of extreme deprivation required for his end-game ambitions now that they have had at least a taste of the better life. The 'middle management' will collectively act against him when it has lost enough blood and treasure of it's own to his imperial adventure. He does have the potential to cause great harm to both Europe and Russia before the hammer drops on him.

Again, history has an example of how these things can play out. There was a military officer who thought Hitler was mad, that England and France would never allow Germany to take part of Czech. He resigned then started to organize an overthrow of the leader that would destroy Germany. Then when Hitler came back having won over Chamberlain with claims he was just trying to protect people, he did not want war, it all ended. Hitler had won. In fact it was such a rush he could not stop.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_Beck

I think putin's popular support is something that can carry the situation to full blown war. Without it, he probably cannot force the military to do things that will endanger the country. If he is able to stare down NATO once, the military may decide to follow him. I wonder if that captured Seargent who said "their boys" should not be in Ukraine is an undercurrenti n the military?

[BanzaiCat]

Not directly related to the Ukraine, but this bit was somewhat interesting I thought.

My boss's boss got back from a European meeting of bigwigs in my company in Sheffield, UK last week. He took a few days' vacation in Belgium and was floored that most people there think Obama is an idiot and feel VERY unprotected because of the lack of support our 'hope and change President' has for our military. He was further surprised that most people there fear Russian invasion. We're talking Belgium, not Poland. That's kind of telling.

[LongBlade]

Not directly related to the Ukraine, but this bit was somewhat interesting I thought.

My boss's boss got back from a European meeting of bigwigs in my company in Sheffield, UK last week. He took a few days' vacation in Belgium and was floored that most people there think Obama is an idiot and feel VERY unprotected because of the lack of support our 'hope and change President' has for our military. He was further surprised that most people there fear Russian invasion. We're talking Belgium, not Poland. That's kind of telling.

Interesting.

I wonder about the sample - a group of CEOs is not the average Joe The Plumber.

Still, it is interesting to know.

[bayonetbrant]

In other news, Staggerwing is working on the VASSAL module for Orange Crush.  More as it develops





edit: f'n' autoco-wreck

[BanzaiCat]

Not directly related to the Ukraine, but this bit was somewhat interesting I thought.

My boss's boss got back from a European meeting of bigwigs in my company in Sheffield, UK last week. He took a few days' vacation in Belgium and was floored that most people there think Obama is an idiot and feel VERY unprotected because of the lack of support our 'hope and change President' has for our military. He was further surprised that most people there fear Russian invasion. We're talking Belgium, not Poland. That's kind of telling.

Interesting.

I wonder about the sample - a group of CEOs is not the average Joe The Plumber.

Still, it is interesting to know.

No no, the meeting was in the UK with bigwigs.

His contact with folks in Belgium was just normal folk - his taxi driver, hotel workers, people they ran into in restaurants, local shops, that kind of thing. At least that's what he described.

[LongBlade]

Huh.

Interesting.

[Barthheart]

In other news, Staggering is working on the VASSAL module for Orange Crush.  More as it develops

What is Staggering? That you can't get someone's name correct?  ;D

Looking forward the VASSAL module.... is there actually a game?

[bayonetbrant]

Looking forward the VASSAL module.... is there actually a game?

suckit




;)

[GDS_Starfury]

In other news, Staggering is working on the VASSAL module for Orange Crush.  More as it develops

What is Staggering? That you can't get someone's name correct?  ;D

Looking forward the VASSAL module.... is there actually a game?

Im currently writing the review.

[Centurion40]

Not directly related to the Ukraine, but this bit was somewhat interesting I thought.

My boss's boss got back from a European meeting of bigwigs in my company in Sheffield, UK last week. He took a few days' vacation in Belgium and was floored that most people there think Obama is an idiot and feel VERY unprotected because of the lack of support our 'hope and change President' has for our military. He was further surprised that most people there fear Russian invasion. We're talking Belgium, not Poland. That's kind of telling.

Now I've never been on a NATO deployment, but I know people (all CF) who have and they have a very low opinion of the Belgian military and their capabilities.  I believe that words like "pompous" & "whiny" were used to describe them.  Therefore it doesn't really surprise me that the average Belgian might sound somewhat timid.  Someone should remind them that Russians would have to get through the Germans before they make it to Belgium.

Brant, you've played in that neck of the woods, any thoughts?

[bayonetbrant]

Yeah, my thought is "I lived there 30 years ago; I think some things have changed"

;)

[Gusington]

The Wife flies internationally for work and the only nationality that she got into a physical altercation with were Belgian, because she claimed they were very rude, whiny and would not let her de-board her plane to make a connection. When she finally did deboard she ran with her rolling luggage and knocked two of the old Belgian gits down with her bag...Schleiffen aint got nothing on her.

Thus corraborating 40Cent's anecdote, above.

[JasonPratt]

Im currently writing the review.

Well played.