4X Game Discussion Thread

[Bison]

Dominions does not have a diplomacy option between the player and the ai.  I really don't miss it but negotiations aren't really in the lore either based on my limited exposure to the game so far.

I go back and forth about how I feel about a true micromanaged tactical levelike in fallen enchantress or a scripted tactical level like endless space/ legends or dominions.   

[Nefaro]

I thoroughly enjoy Dominions but he's right.  It has no diplomatic model so I dunno if it's quite in the same genre as some of these other 4X titles.  It's a Grand Strategy, same as the others of course. 

If they ever managed to, by some miracle, get the AI units to utilize all the spell types together well in battles I'd be enamored.  Maybe even add a temporary truce option for a set amount of time.  Then it would be the greatest of it's kind.  ^-^   I suspect the AI programming required for improving the combat spell use, even if they were sorted into narrow logical categories by type, use, and relative value within that category (for use with such an AI), it would take a huge amount of work and testing.  :-\

[TacticalWargames]

Dominion 3 and 4 are probably my favourite games of the genre though to be honest it's not my favourite genre.

I also started getting into Aurora but left it for awhile and the idea of relearning it all again puts me off. Though a great complex sci fi game.

[tgb]

Here's a different take on the 4X genre

[GDS_Starfury]

Aurora with all its fault is still by far the best  :)

QFT!

I havent tried it on the new pc yet.  hmmmm

[Bison]

Here's a different take on the 4X genre

This has some potential.

[sandman2575]

Here's a different take on the 4X genre

This has some potential.

Intriguing. Seems to have fairly deep politics and economy. The card-based combat doesn't thrill me though.

Would be nice to see this get Greenlighted. Have to say, "Beyond Earth" confirms a lot of my worst fears about how stale and unimaginative 4X has become. The game is simply Civ5 with futuristic skin. And yet it sells like hotcakes. Maybe part of the reason 4X isn't evolving, is because customers seem so content with the same ol' same old, whereas games that go out on a limb (like this Apollo game, or AIWar, or SotS) risk getting 'niche-ified' or worse...

[Bison]

I'd say a game like Endless Legend has a number of unique 4X features.  The way cities work is a perfect example.  There is only one city allowed per area and the faction that owns the area can exploit any resource within the borders of that area.  You can expand your city limits for more hammers/food/science, but there is a penalty associated with over expanding.  It's similar to risk in some ways.

[tgb]

Here's a different take on the 4X genre

This has some potential.

Intriguing. Seems to have fairly deep politics and economy. The card-based combat doesn't thrill me though.

Once you learn the game, you'll find it's not as deep as it appears.  That doesn't make it a bad game.  The colonial policies, which you Have to address every turn, is just a system to keep your growth in check.  There's flavor text to go with each one, but they don't actually do anything.  What is nice about the game is that it's completely market based, and anything you would normally do in a 4X - exploring a planet, colonizing, building up military - is done in a single turn if you have the resources to pay for it.  You'll never spend 5 minutes hitting the "End Turn" button waiting for something to happen.

[Martok]

The 4x genre has served as the backbone of my gaming obsession habit for most of the years I've playing on the PC.  Historical grand-strategy (among which I count both the Total War series and most of the Paradox games) is my second-favorite genre, but 4x has always been my first -- and greatest -- love. 

My interest was first kindled in high school when I was watching my best friend play (what else :P ) Civilization, but it wasn't until Birth of the Federation and (to a lesser extent) Imperium Galactica II that I truly discovered the joy of 4x games for myself.  In the last few years, more recent PC titles like Armada 2526, Distant Worlds, and Pandora have stepped up to the plate.  In addition, with Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes and Age of Wonders 3, I've finally been able to fully enjoy fantasy 4x games as well, not just those that are space/sci-fi-themed. 




Features that I generally look for in my 4x games include: 

1.)  Turn-based (DW and IG2 being the two major exceptions)
2.)  Decent AI (especially if it manages to not cheat too badly)
3.)  A variety of playable factions that actually feel different from each other
4.)  Some sort of controllable/tactical combat model (I suspect this is a major reason I've never truly gotten into the Civ series, and why I like, but not love, GalCiv 2)
5.)  A good diplomacy system (and that the AI can handle)

I *liked* the passive tech research of Distant Worlds in that game's original form. Apparently, lots of players couldn't handle the novelty and insisted on standard tech trees, and the devs duly complied. I wish Distant Worlds would translate it's incredibly cool 'autonomous private economy' idea to technology as well -- where tech research would not be 'state directed' but there could be independent firms working on different things that you have no control over.

I actually liked DW's passive tech research as well.  Would very much have liked an option to have retained that when the expansions were released. 

Some other less conventional approaches I like -- Sword of the Stars, where tech trees unlocks are randomized, you can go overbudget on reserach that's not panning out, or you can have an early breakthrough, or (perish the thought!) your r&d program might actually fail to unlock the tech!  These are little changes, but they're a breath of fresh air from the usual "Now I'm researching lasers, and in 5 turns, I'll start in on some terra-forming, for balance" rigamarole.

Moving away from Space 4X -- I like how in Crusader Kings, technology passively and slowly spreads from region to region. No rushing trebuchets and heavily armored knights for you!

I like these tech/research models as well.  They feel a little more natural, more "real" (if you will). 

[airboy]

Space Empires IV is also a good 4x game.

Dominions 3  in multiplayer is such a wild, hair-on-fire game that is uncomparable with anything else on the market.
Dominions 3 against the AI is a good game.  There is such variation, especially depending on how you set the defaults and with all of the different empire types, plus god designs, that it is very fun.  But Dominions 3 with humans compared to AI is not even close.  This is even more so than most computer wargames.

[Nefaro]

Dominions 3  in multiplayer is such a wild, hair-on-fire game that is uncomparable with anything else on the market.
Dominions 3 against the AI is a good game.  There is such variation, especially depending on how you set the defaults and with all of the different empire types, plus god designs, that it is very fun.  But Dominions 3 with humans compared to AI is not even close.  This is even more so than most computer wargames.

And Dominions 4 is even better.  ;)

[Anguille]

Space Empires IV is also a good 4x game.

Indeed...too bad about the fixed resolution though...

[Bison]

Really good discussion about Settlers

But what about the case where you start in a location, but you can see your proverbial Garden of Eden just a few hexes away? Civilization is a game of hundreds of turns, yes, but it's also a game of building success upon success. If you don't settle right away, on turn 1, and begin your empire, are you putting yourself at a permanent disadvantage?
http://www.firaxis.com/?/S=55fff2663071e55ce70d02738eb55ea7e0c62acc/blog/single/do-you-ever-move-your-settler


I tend to go with the idea that if I see a starting location significantly better than my current location I'll move it it's a turn or two distance away.  Nothing is more annoying in a 4X game when you decide to settle and your explorer unit uncovers a resource rich starting location a turn or two away.

In my current Fallen Enchantress campaign I might be FUBARed because my starting location is tucked between two mountain ranges.  Great defensive position, but there are hardly any resources within 10 turns worth of movement.  Bad, bad, bad.

[Kushan]

I *liked* the passive tech research of Distant Worlds in that game's original form. Apparently, lots of players couldn't handle the novelty and insisted on standard tech trees, and the devs duly complied. I wish Distant Worlds would translate it's incredibly cool 'autonomous private economy' idea to technology as well -- where tech research would not be 'state directed' but there could be independent firms working on different things that you have no control over.

I actually liked DW's passive tech research as well.  Would very much have liked an option to have retained that when the expansions were released. 

I liked the passive tech tree as well. I was really disappointed when the dev's gave into the civ crowd and introduced a standard tech tree early on. It could have used some refinement, but all novel system like that do. Look how long it took them to really get the economy in the game balanced. I hope they go back to something similar in DW2.