The Uber Warhammer 40,000: Armageddon Thread!

[PipFromSlitherine]

Me, too, but if he read this far in the thread he knows we have concerns (and probably knows from other sources, too). So if he chose not to say anything about it anyway, I doubt asking will get a reply.

Still, Mom says I too often infer that asking is pointless. So...

...someone ask?

(I might have a psychological block against doing something I think is of no use, instead of testing to see if it's really of no use.  )

I'm entirely clueless about the gameplay side of Armageddon - I just comment on the engine and other broader issues :)  I think that the air unit stuff has been mentioned elsewhere too, but dropping a note on the Steam or Slitherine forums to be sure that it gets seen isn't a terrible idea.

Cheers

Pip

[JasonPratt]

Jomni has a good observation about the key differences between mounted Wehrmacht and mounted Imperial Guards and how using identical mechanization rules (close enough to never mind) leads to radical differences in-game. I can say from experience, Jom, that I definitely keep my infantry buttoned up at the end of turns if possible.


JH,

I have a suspicion that, despite the engine having been rebuilt from the ground up in DX9 (for multi-platform usage?), the concepts you're recommending can't be implemented because this is still Panzer Corps architecture, which hews too closely (for this purpose) to Panzer General -- and those things couldn't be done in PG.

You're certainly right about airborne troop movement in the milieu, though. Maybe they could implement a command like in PG where certain troops (all troops?) can 'convert' into air transports at selected sites and fly to drop in areas selected by players? Without APC support of course (like in PG).

In order to make your APC/IFV fix work, I can see at least three recoding requirements:

1.) a special slot-opening code so that each valid infantry generates one new slot that cannot be filled except by a troop carrier.

2.) a second or rather third vertical level, in between 'ground' and 'air' for stacking units, which will somehow not hamper stacking air in that hex.

3.) this third level can only exist on top of infantry (and only selected infantry, not on Rough Riders or Termies for example), so that APCs aren't stacking with walkers or tanks etc.

I'm dubious the engine can be tweaked to accomplish this, but the devs keep saying it's a whole new engine that only superficially resembles PG PzCor, so hey...  ;)

[jomni]

Jomni has a good observation about the key differences between mounted Wehrmacht and mounted Imperial Guards and how using identical mechanization rules (close enough to never mind) leads to radical differences in-game. I can say from experience, Jom, that I definitely keep my infantry buttoned up at the end of turns if possible.

Yup.  I tried that tactic to great success.  I keep my infantry in their vehicles unless they need to occupy a victory hex that is infantry-only.  This definitely is the way to go.
They will be protected during the enemy turn (orcs are deadly at melee) and only dismount at the start of the player turn.  And that heavy transport bristling with guns and mortars rocks!  It's a shame not to use them by keeping your infantry dismounted.

My major beef is that while dismounted, the awesome weapons of the vehicles are lost.  Why not just include them in the infantry's weapon list?  Abstracted vehicle support.
The devs took time to make weapons modular anyway.

[MikeGER]

incoming  :)

1.01 to 1.02 Changelog

Bugs:
• [BUG] Some edit boxes miss caret.
• The description for Max Hit Points is missing.(IDS_HELP_MAX_HIT_POINTS)
• - On square monitors main menu background image is cropped correctly now, but in Loading screen it is still distorted
• Fixed Killed unit list

Features:
• Added hot seat mode via MP (accept your own challenge)
• Added chat screen (accessible via Enter key, also appears automatically at the end of the turn and at the beginning if there are new messages)
• Added FPS limitation (30 FPS max)
• Setting volume to zero disables sound completely, not just sets volume to zero
• Mouse cursor no longer depends on game frame rate – should move smooth on all systems
• Mouse cursor is confined to game's window (on multi monitor systems)
• Melee impact animations and audio effects have been integrated.

Unit Balance Changes:
Many infantry teams with only one range weapon have gained increased formation sizes for all factions.
Hive Militia units defense lowered.
Bomber units now have a new 'bomb' weapon to help them destroy Ork Siege weaponry.
Steel Legion support units no longer have 2 HP each, but have gained increased squad size.
Lasgun secondary weapon removed from all Steel Legion support teams.
Leman Russ Demolisher gained a heavy flamer weapon and a slight price increase
Sentinel units have had their base accuracy ratings raised.
All Titan units for all factions price raised again
Nobz are now 2 HP units, but squad size has been reduced
Gretchin returned to size 50 formation
Squiggoth and Gargantuan Squiggoths have had their HP values increased
Several Ork Mechanized units gained increased formation sizes
Ork Weirdboyz have gained a new weapon called Deff Wave
Added Deathrolla weapon and Assault Trait to BattleFortress with Supa Kannon
Space marine bike units now have more varied stats
Basic land raiders are now transport units for heavy space marine infantry
Centurion squad size reduced to 8 maximum.
Increased movement speed for all space marine transports

Weapon file changes:
Flamer Rate of Fire reduced from 4 to 3
Bomb weapon added for Bomber units
Deff Wave weapon added for Ork Weirdboyz
Shoota armor piercing rating reduced to 10

Scenario Changes:
Campscen2B.
Scenario can only be played from the Imperial side in single scenario mode.
Campscen3B.
Blood Angel flags no longer appear on this map.
Campscen4.
Scenario can only be played from the Imperial side in single scenario mode.
Campscen5.
Mannheim's Titan unit is now named Steel Hammer.
Message to retreat has extra text to help guide the player and now reads:
" Multiple Ork Gargants detected inbound, evacuate your forces from the area immediately! Mannheim's Steel Hammer Titan must continue towards the Victory Hex alone!"
Campscen11
Name of all units to destroy in this scenario set as 'Ork Siege Battery' to better match the briefing
Bomber units have transports and a new weapon to make them more useful when destroying Ork Siege Battery units
A pop up message now appears when you have destroyed the first Ork Siege battery
" First Ork Siege Battery Destroyed!"
A pop up message now appears when you have destroyed the second to last Ork Siege Battery
" Almost all Ork Siege Batteries have been destroyed! Find the last one take it out!"
Campscen12
Von Strab's Former Bodyguards AUX unit returned to scenario.
Triggers changed so that Von Strab's Former Bodyguards unit does not break the scenario.
CampScen17
Two auxiliary helper titans have been added to this scenario to compensate for the loss of player owned Titans
Tu'Shan and several Salamander Space Marine units added as auxiliaries to assist in this battle
Campscen19
Von Strab unit AI settings
changed Von Strab's Titan forces have abandoned him and have been replaced by extra Baneblade tank variants
Campscen24
Adjusted some terrain for better graphical appearances
CampScen25
Thraka's personal unit has been made bigger and stronger

Other Changes:
Fixed availability file issues so that units available during the tutorial are now also available at the start of Act 1
Imperial titan availability has been significantly pushed back. Scout titan only available from the middle of act2, reaver titan only available from the start of act3.
Sound files have been added for Assault Impacts
Attack file has been updated for Assault Impact graphics and audio
Leman russ Demolisher gained a flamer weapon
Hive wall turret has animation and sound
Bombers, Ork Weird Boyz, and kommandos had entries added for their new weapons
Stormeagles had entries added for their missing weapons
Changed deathstrike and grot launcher animations
Deathrolla battlefortress entry added for melee weapon

[JasonPratt]

Well, those were all important changes (removing secondary lasguns from all Legion support teams? -- not sure I like that, but I guess I understand it. The bomber now has a bomb. All basic infantry group sizes increased, kewl.)

But I see a distinct lack of fixing the insane terrain movement restrictions for air units. Maybe next time....?

I'm not trying to say they're ignoring it, or can't fix it due to the engine somehow, btw. On the other hand, I did quip about the manual that in it aircraft are treated "like fairies over in the corner of the yard who disappear when you look in their direction".  ::) And "not even aircraft" can enter hexes with infantry restrictions, which is... a troubling way to put that. I understand them not getting into the buildings of course, duh, but not being able to enter the hex at all would bespeak a serious engine design problem.

You've gotten a lot farther than I, JH: can aircraft hover over that kind of hex?

(Also, LordZ did confirm drop pods are supposed to be in the game, a few thread pages back. Did he mean cosmetically as part of the plot? I seem to recall you saying drop pods aren't part of what the player can do.)

[Jarhead0331]

You've gotten a lot farther than I, JH: can aircraft hover over that kind of hex?

(Also, LordZ did confirm drop pods are supposed to be in the game, a few thread pages back. Did he mean cosmetically as part of the plot? I seem to recall you saying drop pods aren't part of what the player can do.)

Aircraft cannot move over mountains, cliffs, etc. I'm not sure about buildings though. I would venture to say that they can't. They are so useless, I don't even buy them anymore.

As far as "drop pods being in the game", I think you have to use "in the game" loosely. When Space Marines first appear in the campaign, they "arrive" by drop pod. In reality, one turn there are no space marines on map and the next they are there. When they arrive, the drop pods do appear to take up a hex and they do have hit points, although I am not sure why, as they seem to serve no purpose. What I meant when I asked if drop pods were in the game was whether they are a means of deploying troops in any given scenario. I'm at the end of Act 2 and so far there has been no use of drop pods other than in that one scripted instance. This would have been another opportunity to add a strategic element to the game. For instance, players could use purchase points to buy strategic tactics cards. ie. insertion of troops by drop pod, insertion of terminators by teleportation, orbital bombardment, etc. There is none of this in the game and it is a missed opportunity. Its the little details like this that make an average game a great one. Although the game is enjoyable, I think it is rather uninspired. No risks, no great ideas, no effort to expand beyond a set established formula.

Another let down.

[JasonPratt]

You've gotten a lot farther than I, JH: can aircraft hover over that kind of hex?

(Also, LordZ did confirm drop pods are supposed to be in the game, a few thread pages back. Did he mean cosmetically as part of the plot? I seem to recall you saying drop pods aren't part of what the player can do.)

Aircraft cannot move over mountains, cliffs, etc. I'm not sure about buildings though. I would venture to say that they can't. They are so useless, I don't even buy them anymore.

Okay, that definitely has to be a bug -- even the manual thinks they can fly over any terrain, and the manual half pretends they don't exist.

[Jarhead0331]

Wow. What a lame end to a very long campaign. Seriously.

[JasonPratt]

YOU ARE NOT ENCOURAGING ME TO STEP AWAY FROM MY TEN YEAR OLD RUSSIAN TACTICAL 3RD PERSON RPG, JARHEAD!! 

Incidentally, either my Steam version didn't auto-update, or they changed their mind at some point about the lasguns being removed from Legion support teams, because when I played the next mission... not last night, maybe the night before... I checked during deployment and my mortar team still had them; they were listed on other infantry support teams, too.

Does your copy still have lasguns for support teams, JH?  ???

[Jarhead0331]

Does your copy still have lasguns for support teams, JH?  ???

I have no idea. However, I do not recall any patches ever being applied through steam. Do you still have to run the updater from the game menu. Probably...

[Gusington]

How was the campaign ending lame?

[JasonPratt]

I'm hoping it's just a case of 'the journey is the thing'. Most PGish campaigns have endings that are either lame or practically non-existent narratively after all.

[undercovergeek]

Wow. What a lame end to a very long campaign. Seriously.

is it safe to say youve now come down on the 'its not that good' side of the fence?

[Grimnirsson]

Sigh...why am I am not surprised...? :(

[Lord Zimoa]

Hi guys

we are pleased to announce v1.02 is now available. It contains a very long list of fixes. More than we though and were planning! The update is propagating so if your update button doesn't work now it should in 30-60 minutes!

I will be playing 1.02 in my Live Stream in 1 minute at http://www.twitch.tv/slitherinegroup/

Please note that some balance changes will only take effect when you start a new campaign. For example infantry unit size changes. If you want to continue an existing game you can work around this by upgrading your infantry to a different type and then back again and it will reset all your stats and you can continue with new fully sized squads.

You can see the full list below.

1.01 to 1.02 Changelog

Fixed bugs:
•   Game screen sometimes goes black after Alt-Tabbing out of the game, changing desktop resolution or suspending the PC.
•   Upon exiting and restarting the game, the voice volume slider resets to default.
•   Some edit boxes miss caret.
•   The description for Max Hit Points is missing.(IDS_HELP_MAX_HIT_POINTS)
•   On square monitors main menu background image is cropped correctly now, but in Loading screen it is still distorted
•   Killed unit list does not work
•   The game now correctly displays custom scenarios from %My Documents%\My Games\ Warhammer 40,000 Armageddon\Scenario folder in scenario list. Both in single player and multiplayer mode.

New Features:
•   Changes in unit panels in main UI:
o   Added unit's faction icon
o   Added tooltip to experience bar
o   Added health bar (like in unit list)
o   Improved name and type presentation: now, if unit name includes type (as in all auto-generated names), type is not shown and name occupies two lines, and so is never truncated.
o   Range now always shown as Min-Max.
o   Replaced strength and health stats with cover and morale
o   Combat prediction is indicated with blinking red on attacker's and defender's health bars.
o   Added per-weapon combat prediction (weapon status, firing accuracy and damage).
•   Unit which will provide support fire is marked on the map with "support" symbol next to its strength plate.
•   Melee impact animations and audio effects have been integrated.
•   Added hot seat mode via MP interface (accept your own challenge)
•   Added chat screen (accessible via Enter key, also appears automatically at the end of the turn and at the beginning if there are new messages)
•   Added FPS limitation (50 FPS max)
•   Setting volume to zero disables sound completely, not just sets volume to zero
•   Mouse cursor no longer depends on game frame rate – should move smooth on all systems
•   Mouse cursor is confined to game's window (on multi monitor systems)
•   Mouse cursor turns to arrow with ? on icons which can be clicked for more info.
Editor changes:
•   Added automated tile placement (Tools->Generate Tiles)
•   Added firing effects editor (Edit->Efx Editor...)
•   Fixed Tools->Validate Scenario command
•   Fixed Tools->Show Statistics command
•   The Editor should no longer display "invalid scenario" message when saving valid playable scenarios.
•   Removed Tools->Options command as it is not used by the Editor.

Unit Balance Changes:
Many infantry teams with only one range weapon have gained increased formation sizes for all factions.
Hive Militia units defense lowered.
Bomber units now have a new 'bomb' weapon to help them destroy Ork Siege weaponry.
Steel Legion support units no longer have 2 HP each, but have gained increased squad size.
Lasgun secondary weapon removed from all Steel Legion support teams.
Leman Russ Demolisher gained a heavy flamer weapon and a slight price increase
Sentinel units have had their base accuracy ratings raised.
All Titan units for all factions price raised again
Nobz are now 2 HP units, but squad size has been reduced
Gretchin returned to size 50 formation
Squiggoth and Gargantuan Squiggoths have had their HP values increased
Several Ork Mechanized units gained increased formation sizes
Ork Weirdboyz have gained a new weapon called Deff Wave
Added Deathrolla weapon and Assault Trait to BattleFortress with Supa Kannon
Space marine bike units now have more varied stats
Basic land raiders are now transport units for heavy space marine infantry
Centurion squad size reduced to 8 maximum.
Increased movement speed for all space marine transports

Weapon file changes:
Flamer Rate of Fire reduced from 4 to 3
Bomb weapon added for Bomber units
Deff Wave weapon added for Ork Weirdboyz
Shoota armor piercing rating reduced to 10

Scenario Changes:

Campscen2B.
Scenario can only be played from the Imperial side in single scenario mode.

Campscen3B.
Blood Angel flags no longer appear on this map.

Campscen4.
Scenario can only be played from the Imperial side in single scenario mode.

Campscen5.
Mannheim's Titan unit is now named Steel Hammer.
Message to retreat has extra text to help guide the player and now reads:
" Multiple Ork Gargants detected inbound, evacuate your forces from the area immediately! Mannheim's Steel Hammer Titan must continue towards the Victory Hex alone!"

Campscen11
Name of all units to destroy in this scenario set as 'Ork Siege Battery' to better match the briefing
Bomber units have transports and a new weapon to make them more useful when destroying Ork Siege Battery units
A pop up message now appears when you have destroyed the first Ork Siege battery
" First Ork Siege Battery Destroyed!"
A pop up message now appears when you have destroyed the second to last Ork Siege Battery
" Almost all Ork Siege Batteries have been destroyed! Find the last one take it out!"

Campscen12
Von Strab's Former Bodyguards AUX unit returned to scenario.
Triggers changed so that Von Strab's Former Bodyguards unit does not break the scenario.

CampScen17
Two auxiliary helper titans have been added to this scenario to compensate for the loss of player owned Titans
Tu'Shan and several Salamander Space Marine units added as auxiliaries to assist in this battle

Campscen19
Von Strab unit AI settings
changed Von Strab's Titan forces have abandoned him and have been replaced by extra Baneblade tank variants

Campscen24
Adjusted some terrain for better graphical appearances

CampScen25
Thraka's personal unit has been made bigger and stronger


Other Changes:
Fixed availability file issues so that units available during the tutorial are now also available at the start of Act 1
Imperial titan availability has been significantly pushed back. Scout titan only available from the middle of act2, reaver titan only available from the start of act3.
Sound files have been added for Assault Impacts
Attack file has been updated for Assault Impact graphics and audio
Leman russ Demolisher gained a flamer weapon
Hive wall turret has animation and sound
Bombers, Ork Weird Boyz, and kommandos had entries added for their new weapons
Stormeagles had entries added for their missing weapons
Changed deathstrike and grot launcher animations
Deathrolla battlefortress entry added for melee weapon