Greece Votes Communist

[Centurion40]

There is a significant Greek community here in Halifax, and it has grown a bit recently, thanks to a new mini-wave of immigrants seeking to escape economic hardships in Greece.

I have noticed that the Greeks are very proud of their heritage.  Most send their kids to Greek school after regular school to learn how to read & write Greek; and socially they attend the Greek Orthodox Church (which is beautiful, btw).  Many vacation in Greece, at least once every couple of years, and they still maintain contacts with relatives still living in Greece.  But not one Greek Canadian living here, who I have asked, wants to live in Greece.  Even the old retirees don't want to winter there!  A three-week visit every couple of years is as much as they will consider.

This floors me.  They all talk about the food and the weather in Greece, which sounds idyllic.  I could never understand why anyone would want to spend their winter here:



when they could spend their winter here:



But thanks to this thread, I am starting to better understand....

[airboy]

Tsipras (the Prime Minister) formed a government with a coalition partner the right-wing Independent Greeks who are known for their anti-German rhetoric and views (according to the Wall St. Journal of 1/29/15).  The guy has repeatedly called on Germany to make "reparations" payments for WW2.

Actions this week include:
a] Pledging to rehire thousands of public sector workers
b] Reopen the state broadcaster
c] insisting that restrictions on the Greek government by its creditors be revoked
d] boosting the minimum wage 30% and boost public pensions

The plan would supposedly be funded by "reallocating budget funds" and "cracking down on illegal gasoline sales"

Greek bonds are yielding 17% on fears of a default.  Greek bank stocks are down 25% this week (Monday - Wednesday).  Greek bank deposits are rapidly shrinking as people fear currency controls or nationalization of bank deposits.

The Greek loans come due over the next several weeks.  There have been no reported talks between the EU debt holders and the Greek government.

The financial press is reporting that the EU is thinking that it would be best to have Greece leave the EU.

[endfire79]

There is a significant Greek community here in Halifax, and it has grown a bit recently, thanks to a new mini-wave of immigrants seeking to escape economic hardships in Greece.

I have noticed that the Greeks are very proud of their heritage.  Most send their kids to Greek school after regular school to learn how to read & write Greek; and socially they attend the Greek Orthodox Church (which is beautiful, btw).  Many vacation in Greece, at least once every couple of years, and they still maintain contacts with relatives still living in Greece.  But not one Greek Canadian living here, who I have asked, wants to live in Greece.  Even the old retirees don't want to winter there!  A three-week visit every couple of years is as much as they will consider.

This floors me.  They all talk about the food and the weather in Greece, which sounds idyllic.  I could never understand why anyone would want to spend their winter here:



when they could spend their winter here:



But thanks to this thread, I am starting to better understand....

I know, it's true.  It comes down to this.  Who do you trust with your taxed incomes?  (hint, not the governments in Athens  ;)).

[endfire79]

Tsipras (the Prime Minister) formed a government with a coalition partner the right-wing Independent Greeks who are known for their anti-German rhetoric and views (according to the Wall St. Journal of 1/29/15).  The guy has repeatedly called on Germany to make "reparations" payments for WW2.

Actions this week include:
a] Pledging to rehire thousands of public sector workers
b] Reopen the state broadcaster
c] insisting that restrictions on the Greek government by its creditors be revoked
d] boosting the minimum wage 30% and boost public pensions

The plan would supposedly be funded by "reallocating budget funds" and "cracking down on illegal gasoline sales"

Greek bonds are yielding 17% on fears of a default.  Greek bank stocks are down 25% this week (Monday - Wednesday).  Greek bank deposits are rapidly shrinking as people fear currency controls or nationalization of bank deposits.

The Greek loans come due over the next several weeks.  There have been no reported talks between the EU debt holders and the Greek government.

The financial press is reporting that the EU is thinking that it would be best to have Greece leave the EU.

Airboy, that reparations sentiment has been there a long time before Tsipras brought it up; as long as I can remember since the end of WW2.  It's an old horn that many try to blow when they have no card left to play. 

About his plans, I am perplexed as well. I don't see where he's going to find the money.  Greece had an overbloated bureaucracy before this mess, and too many people had jobs doing nothing and due to cronyism.  Adding the EU loans to the mix, they made it worse.

I also read there were plans to privatize the port at Piraeus, but Tsipras put that on hold. The company that was lined up to run it was the COSCO group from China.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/27/us-greece-election-privatisation-idUSKBN0L027W20150127

[endfire79]

Not a bad local news source with an english edition as well

http://www.ekathimerini.com/

The OpEd cartoon from today

[airboy]

Airboy, that reparations sentiment has been there a long time before Tsipras brought it up; as long as I can remember since the end of WW2.  It's an old horn that many try to blow when they have no card left to play. 

About his plans, I am perplexed as well. I don't see where he's going to find the money.  Greece had an overbloated bureaucracy before this mess, and too many people had jobs doing nothing and due to cronyism.  Adding the EU loans to the mix, they made it worse.

I also read there were plans to privatize the port at Piraeus, but Tsipras put that on hold. The company that was lined up to run it was the COSCO group from China.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/27/us-greece-election-privatisation-idUSKBN0L027W20150127
[/quote]

The financial press also cannot figure out where the money will come from to hire lots more government workers.

I mentioned the reparations line for a couple of reasons.  Germany is the primary holder of Greek Government debt and is essential to any negotiations to alter the loan terms to Greece.  But the new PM had formed a government with a party that goes out of its way to insult Germany, and to personally insult the German Chancellor.  The reparations line is another finger in the eye of Germany.  Almost the first act of the new Greek PM was to visit a memorial to Greeks shot by the occupying Germans 70 years ago now. 

As a negotiating strategy, going out of your way to enrage and insult the individual and government that you most need to be flexible on lending terms seems counterproductive.

But the Greeks as a group love to nurse their grievances.  If I'm remembering right from my multiple trips to Greece, the ceremonial Greek military uniform that is used at their equalivant to the US Tomb of the Unknown Soldier has a knot on the skirt for each year of Turkish occupation of Greece.

Found the reference: from Wikipedia: Foustanella (φουστανέλα), a cotton kilt made from 30 meters (98 feet) of white cloth, with 400 pleats (Greek: πιέτες), representing the 400 years of Ottoman occupation.[1] The foustanella derives from the traditional uniform of Continental Greece.  This is part of the uniform they wear.

[endfire79]

As a negotiating strategy, going out of your way to enrage and insult the individual and government that you most need to be flexible on lending terms seems counterproductive.

But the Greeks as a group love to nurse their grievances.  If I'm remembering right from my multiple trips to Greece, the ceremonial Greek military uniform that is used at their equalivant to the US Tomb of the Unknown Soldier has a knot on the skirt for each year of Turkish occupation of Greece.

Found the reference: from Wikipedia: Foustanella (φουστανέλα), a cotton kilt made from 30 meters (98 feet) of white cloth, with 400 pleats (Greek: πιέτες), representing the 400 years of Ottoman occupation.[1] The foustanella derives from the traditional uniform of Continental Greece.  This is part of the uniform they wear.

Counterproductive & insulating - definitely.  It's theatrics playing on sentiments long shared by a % of the general populace over there, but nothing to help the situation at all.  The people there can be quite temperamental, and sometimes downright unreasonable, as most are in the balkans if I may add.  The current economic situation doesn't help sadly.

Glad you made it to the Presidential Palace while you were there.  I wore one of those when I was a kid.  It's part of the identity & national psyche, as were the stories of the war of independence etc.  There is still friction between the two countries, and Turkey has a more vibrant economy these days & larger population to boot. 

[Nefaro]

About his plans, I am perplexed as well. I don't see where he's going to find the money.  Greece had an overbloated bureaucracy before this mess, and too many people had jobs doing nothing and due to cronyism.  Adding the EU loans to the mix, they made it worse.

Sadly, it sounds as if the Greeks didn't learn their economic lesson.  They're just piling on even more of the same stuff that put them in such a hole. 

I wonder if they'll eventually vote differently after completely wrecking it and having the EU sever them like a hopelessly gangrenous appendage.  :-\

[LongBlade]

About his plans, I am perplexed as well. I don't see where he's going to find the money.  Greece had an overbloated bureaucracy before this mess, and too many people had jobs doing nothing and due to cronyism.  Adding the EU loans to the mix, they made it worse.

Sadly, it sounds as if the Greeks didn't learn their economic lesson.  They're just piling on even more of the same stuff that put them in such a hole. 

I wonder if they'll eventually vote differently after completely wrecking it and having the EU sever them like a hopelessly gangrenous appendage.  :-\

As Airboy said, nothing lasts forever. Greece is headed for a crash. It's either pay me now, or pay me later.

Sounds like Germany's getting ready to give them the boot. If they're defaulting on their bonds it's pretty much inevitable.

[besilarius]

Once, the economic situations gets really bad, the government will probably look for someone to blame.  This will occupy people, incite their emotions.
No doubt, the USA will get some criticism for not stepping in.  Obviously Germany for holding the loans.
What they should not do is start another round of fighting in the Balkans.  The Bulgars have long desired a port on the Mediterranean.  The Greeks are angry that their neighbors have a province named Macedonia.  And there is always Turkey.

Should these bozos go too far with any rhetoric, they just might get their wish.

It is hardly ever mentioned, but Churchill visited the british troops in Athens around Christmas, 1945.  The Communists plotted an assasination.  The britsh general on the ground, Scobie, was on top of the situation and stomped it down.  No telling what the final results would have been if Winston was killed.  No one else really cared enough about Greece to hazard the troops and effort.  Had Greece gone communist, then Stalin could have put much more pressure on Tito and Turkey.

[Gusington]

Is the fear of a domino effect starting with Greece leaving the EU a real threat? First Greece, then Spain, then Italy, then...?

[Staggerwing]

While Spain and Italy have their (lion's) share of problems I find it hard to put them in the same econocultural category as Greece. Both of the former countries have vibrant tech sectors and a not-insignificant manufacturing capacity. When is the last time you saw any cutting edge Greek-built medical equipment?

[MetalDog]

Is the fear of a domino effect starting with Greece leaving the EU a real threat? First Greece, then Spain, then Italy, then...?

I wish I could remember where I saw it, but, I read an article in the last week or so that said exactly that.  If Greece goes, it is likely that Spain and Italy will follow.

[Gusington]

IIRC I saw an article in The Economist a few days ago about the new domino effect.

'Wing, to be fair I don't remember ever seeing anything stamped 'Made in Spain.' I think Spain is just as crippled as Greece. I do agree on Italy being a level above, but not by much.

[Staggerwing]

In my previous job I had some Spanish-made (but re-badged) equipment for cutting ophthalmic lenses.