Is anyone else puzzled by Pdox's half-hearted 'rollout' of Hearts of Iron IV?

[Dread Rlyeh]

Guys, yes HoI has it's deficiencies. In the past Pacific war didn't always play out so well. And I'm not sure the dropping of OOB will be the optimal progression.

But it's a grand-strategy WW2 that has economics, tech, some diplomacy, espionage, some partisans, etc etc... and there are very few games that compete with it's breadth.

In fact the only other recent release I can think of has no, none, zero, nothing AI.

The question begs, why have all these bells and whistles if the AI cant use them effectively, or sometimes at all?

This just strikes me as laziness and also goes with the flow of making games less groggy and more 'elegant', ie, shallow.  I also don't see how it is so difficult to have the AI handle the chain of command.  With the bonuses given to difficulty level, its not like it has to be at the same efficiency level as a human, it has to be somewhere in the ballpark.  So its 1941 and you get new officers... well have an algo run through the COC and see where the new guys fit in or don't.  Front line units are get the best officers, garrisons get the scrubs.   Add + whatever percent to their overall skill if the officer has some particular bonus, ie, panzer leader.  Same thing a player is doing.   

Externalize as much as you can with the AI scripting and let moders pick up your slack.   

edit:  forgot to address this - with the COC in HOI3 you wanted to have HQs within XXX distance of your units.  Yes, that is some 'extra' overhead for the AI, but just factor that into your efficiency calculations.  If I move this CORPS HQ two territories over my units fight at +15% efficiency.  And again, if its not perfect so what?  AI is usually pretty poor and once players get the hang of the game they have to keep giving it an increasing handicap, via difficulty or self imposed house rules, so just give it some extra bonuses if it keeps muffing the subtleties of the COC.     

[Pete Dero]

One thing I spotted on the video (at 15:30+) was that you can group divisions under a leader but there's no unit hierarchy. No corps, no armies. I hope this is just because it's alpha. If it's not this is a no-go for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6D0jNe_dUVE#t=925

Preview : http://www.gamewatcher.com/previews/hearts-of-iron-iv-preview/12158

Hearts of Iron 4 has a new command system that simplifies combat and leaves you free to concentrate on managing the infrastructure of your nation. You can assign several units to an AI commander, picked from a list of historical military leaders for each country, and assign them battle plans that will tell them where to attack and where to fall back to in case of defeat.

[Ian C]

I like immersive gameplay. I don't give a rat's ass about the AI struggling with OOBs, I just want to be able to group 3 divisions together and label it a Corps. Group 3 corps together and label it '1st Army' and so on. HOI4 won't let us do this?  AARs are going to be interesting. No Corps. No Armies. Seriously, how can they advertise a new 'battle plan' style of organsing attacks with pointy arrow maps etc and not have named basic unit groups?

Also, where are the NATO counters? Not one screen shot with a flat map and counters.

[bobarossa]

Also, where are the NATO counters? Not one screen shot with a flat map and counters.

I fear that they have dumped NATO counters since they don't fit their 'wonderful' 3D maps.  They created a shitstorm with their original map for HOI3 in that no one could identify terrain without hovering the mouse over a province.  Unfortunately, the easy terrain map didn't allow for weather to be shown so I pretty much ignored weather. 

I have not played a single game of HOI1/2/3 with the sprites activated and probably never will.  If HOI4 doesn't have NATO counters, they won't have me as a customer.

[sandman2575]

I fear that they have dumped NATO counters since they don't fit their 'wonderful' 3D maps. 

I think that's pretty much confirmed -- there's no 2D map view, and there won't be traditional NATO counters, but rather 'counters' in the sense of what you get when zoomed out playing CKII / EUIV -- those 'unit bar' things. Not thrilled about this myself.

The map in HoI3 left a lot to be desired, to put it mildly. While I love the maps in CKII/EUIV, what I see of the new HOI4 map leaves me a little concerned -- especially with the day/night cycles, the map looks more 21st-century satellite view than vintage WW2 (which is what they were going for in HOI3, and failed to achieve pretty miserably...)  And the very foggy fog of war needs to be thinned out or toned down or something...

[Huw the Poo]

I would've thought the NATO counters would be modded in in pretty short order.

[JudgeDredd]

I had a great fear that some of those sprites were doing press ups

[Rayfer]

I would've thought the NATO counters would be modded in in pretty short order.

I certainly hope so. I play HOI3 exclusively with nato counters. Without them I won't buy HOI4.

[Ian C]

I would've thought the NATO counters would be modded in in pretty short order.

That fact that someone has to mod-in NATO counters for a Hearts of Iron game fills me with a crappy feeling.

[sandman2575]

I had a great fear that some of those sprites were doing press ups

They are, and I made the mistake of starting a thread on the Pdox forum on exactly this topic, saying (in so many words) that it looks flippin' stupid. I should know better than to tangle with the tar-baby that is Pdox fanboyism, though.

The fact that we'll have to rely on someone modding out little soldiers doing jumping-jacks and push-ups doesn't leave me with a good feeling either, Ian...

[JasonPratt]

The question begs, why have all these bells and whistles if the AI cant use them effectively, or sometimes at all?

For the multiplayer, of course...  >:D

[Nefaro]

None of us like it being dumbed down.

However, if Pdox actually manages to create a relatively bug-free HOI in which the AI is effective and can emulate the WW2 military-political situations to a decent extent, then I'd consider it a success. 

I'm not even sure that is possible, however.  My faith in the HOI series tanked long ago.  Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised. 

Would still rather see a new EU Rome 2 or Sengoku 2 with it's own style of CK2 character & political system.  Or even one in Ancient China.  Lots of places to go with that.  At least that system works.

[sandman2575]

Vicky III!

[Nefaro]

Vicky III!

That Angry Joe video interview made it sound like that wasn't going to be anytime soon.

[sandman2575]

Yeah, kind of got that sense as well.  Vicky III needs a "champion," according to Wester.

Hey, I'd gladly take a leave of absence from my present employ if Pdox is hiring for that position   :)