St. Louis Riots

[LongBlade]

Sometimes 4-5 generations.

Yup. Proof positive that what we have doesn't work - at least it doesn't seem to help people pull themselves out of poverty.

[Greybriar]

Being rewarded for doing nothing insures that each successive generation in a welfare family also does nothing. A solution should have been found fifty years ago.

But if Ronald Reagan couldn't fix the problem, I don't suppose anyone else will either.

[Gusington]

A difficult problem made more intractable by the fact that doing nothing about it benefits tens of millions of people.

[LongBlade]

Being rewarded for doing nothing insures that each successive generation in a welfare family also does nothing. A solution should have been found fifty years ago.

But if Ronald Reagan couldn't fix the problem, I don't suppose anyone else will either.

Clinton got together later in his second term with the GOP led congress and they had some success.

I studied the issue in some depth taking an entire semester of econ on the topic. Frankly, there is no perfect solution. As you say, when you pay people to "do nothing" you'll ensure the vast majority of them will succeed at it.

Further, the more in-kind benefits you give them the more you raise the real income they need to replace the benefit.

I'm not arguing we shouldn't take care of the poor and the destitute. But I will suggest that it has been a long time since we tried to do something about the problem.

[Gusington]

What happened to Clinton's 'workfare' programs?

[LongBlade]

What happened to Clinton's 'workfare' programs?

No simple answer. This article is from 2006 and clearly economic conditions have changed since then. If I were a betting man, I'd say we've regressed since then.

The punchline is that it worked to some degree.

http://www.economist.com/node/7226120

[bayonetbrant]

What happened to Clinton's 'workfare' programs?

the cynic is me says that they were probably de-funded by mostly-Republican Congress early in Bush II's first term because they were generally working :-\

[Gusington]

Sigh.

[airboy]

Insuring access to health care for all and paying a living family wage will be a good start.

Median household income, and total welfare/transfer payments to the bottom two quartiles of US households have all grown substantially since 1979.  You have to factor in the transfer payments of all sorts to see this - but it is a fact.

Problem is (as Longblade said), is how do you not subsidize poor life choices and provide disincentives to people being productive members of society?  How do you differentiate between the "deserving poor" and the "undeserving poor."  Incentives matter.  The more you subsidize anything, the more of it you get.  How you provide incentives to get people to be productive members of society while not punishing the innocent (deserving poor & children) is not easy to pull off.

[LongBlade]

Insuring access to health care for all and paying a living family wage will be a good start.

Median household income, and total welfare/transfer payments to the bottom two quartiles of US households have all grown substantially since 1979.  You have to factor in the transfer payments of all sorts to see this - but it is a fact.

And the level of poverty has not changed substantially since the Clinton reforms.

[LongBlade]

Since this thread has morphed into a discussion of poverty as well as the unrest in inner cities I suppose this is as good a place as any to post it.

Verde Point is a self-described "luxury apartment" complex with a rooftop pool and "personal wine storage" that is currently accepting public housing assistance recipients who will live there practically for free, courtesy of the taxpayers — at least until they become gainfully employed and their incomes rise. That's when the pool parties and wine tastings end and they will have to downgrade to a more middle-class abode.

The Gramercy is another luxury apartment, also in Arlington, Va., where holders of the federal vouchers formerly known as Section 8 can live, taking advantage of its "massage room and sauna" and "clubroom with bar." Also included, according to its promotional materials, are a "first-class sports club," "theater/screening room," and computer room.

"Someone will actually come and do a manicure right in your home," its promotional video says, adding that the units have "Berber carpet, GE stainless steel appliances, granite countertops." There are 20 residences at the Gramercy set aside as "affordable," and where Section 8 can be used.

source: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/03/23/government-pays-to-house-poor-in-luxury-apartments-with-pools-wine-cellars/?intcmp=latestnews

[airboy]

What happened to Clinton's 'workfare' programs?

the cynic is me says that they were probably de-funded by mostly-Republican Congress early in Bush II's first term because they were generally working :-\

Nope - Obama and the Dem Congress when he was elected eliminated the Clinton workfare because they thought welfare was an "economic stimulus" and that more welfare = healthy economy.  Can't blame either W or the Republican Congress for this one.

[LongBlade]

That would help to explain the surge in numbers of people being paid by the government.

[Gusington]

The last couple of posts enrage me 

[BanzaiCat]