Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity

[MetalDog]

I think he means, what would be the alternative to the grind leading up to the big boss fight?

[Bison]

Yeah I mean what would be the alternative to fighting your way to the boss? 

[Rayfer]

Yeah I mean what would be the alternative to fighting your way to the boss?

Something other than the seemingly obligatory series of increasingly difficult battles (the grind) leading up to the extremely difficult end game boss.  It's like there's a rule that all rpg's have to end this way...it's become predictable. Maybe they exist and I just haven't played one. Wouldn't it be interesting to finally encounter the big bad boss only to find that his power decreased all the while you were defeating his minions. The weakened shell of a powerful boss grovels at your feet to spare his life now that you have destroyed his power base. I don't know....anything but the predictable end we always get.

[Nefaro]

Yeah I mean what would be the alternative to fighting your way to the boss?

Something other than the seemingly obligatory series of increasingly difficult battles (the grind) leading up to the extremely difficult end game boss.  It's like there's a rule that all rpg's have to end this way...it's become predictable. Maybe they exist and I just haven't played one. Wouldn't it be interesting to finally encounter the big bad boss only to find that his power decreased all the while you were defeating his minions. The weakened shell of a powerful boss grovels at your feet to spare his life now that you have destroyed his power base. I don't know....anything but the predictable end we always get.

Sounds rather anti-climactic.   Maybe not regarding the boss himself, but players realizing they had unknowingly defeated the game before ever reaching the big guy at the end (who just ended up grovelling before them). 

Would give a, "that was it?!" ending perhaps.

[Rayfer]

Yeah I mean what would be the alternative to fighting your way to the boss?

Something other than the seemingly obligatory series of increasingly difficult battles (the grind) leading up to the extremely difficult end game boss.  It's like there's a rule that all rpg's have to end this way...it's become predictable. Maybe they exist and I just haven't played one. Wouldn't it be interesting to finally encounter the big bad boss only to find that his power decreased all the while you were defeating his minions. The weakened shell of a powerful boss grovels at your feet to spare his life now that you have destroyed his power base. I don't know....anything but the predictable end we always get.

Sounds rather anti-climactic.   Maybe not regarding the boss himself, but players realizing they had unknowingly defeated the game before ever reaching the big guy at the end (who just ended up grovelling before them). 

Would give a, "that was it?!" ending perhaps.

To each his own. I think it would be quite entertaining to have an unexpected ending with twists and turns leading to a conclusion other than the usual......here we ago again, another big bad boss to kill.

[MetalDog]

It's a story thing.  People, Americans especially, like a happy ending.  Good triumphs over evil.  The hero gets the girl.  Everything is happily ever after.  It confuses people when things don't follow the formula.  So, if I got to the end of the adventure and found that my actions had caused the bad guy to beg rather than going dying at the end of my sword, I'd feel cheated.  But, if you made it clear during the story that the things I was doing would ultimately lead to the villain begging for his life at the end, I'd be satisfied.  Matter of expectations.

Oh, and if I was voting, I'd take a different ending than the happy one.  As long as it made sense.

[Nefaro]

It's a story thing.  People, Americans especially, like a happy ending.  Good triumphs over evil.  The hero gets the girl.  Everything is happily ever after.  It confuses people when things don't follow the formula.  So, if I got to the end of the adventure and found that my actions had caused the bad guy to beg rather than going dying at the end of my sword, I'd feel cheated.  But, if you made it clear during the story that the things I was doing would ultimately lead to the villain begging for his life at the end, I'd be satisfied.  Matter of expectations.

Oh, and if I was voting, I'd take a different ending than the happy one.  As long as it made sense.

I would have no problem if the player ended up finding out that he was the bad guy at the end or something similarly unusual.  Would be a good ending.  Just wouldn't want to feel like the game ended before I expected, or inconclusively.

[bobarossa]

Or to get to that groveling bad guy only to find out he was the good guy and you had been duped!  Of course the problem with surprise endings is that there hard to keep a surprise.  The first person to get there will be spouting out spoilers left and right.

[undercovergeek]

or walk into the room with the big boss and just fade to black like The Sopranos - then noone knows WTF went on 

and the sequel can start with the dust settling, and everyone going 'well, i did not expect that to happen, so....... anyone for a cuppa?'

[undercovergeek]

OR, walk into the room with the big boss and then cut to your tank waking up in bed as if it was all a dream similar to Final Destination, shouting 'guys, guys we cant go on this quest' just before he gets squashed by a falling boulder

[bob48]

I had a dream like that once. Must stop eating cheese sarnies before bed time.

[Bison]

I'm all for the story.  I could understand a twist ending with you being revealed as an anti-hero, or the boss being weakened, but I think it'd only work if it were driven by choices during the story.  Otherwise I think it'd be just too anti-climatic.  Although you could have a boss that had it's powers reduced, but then I'd imagine you'd just supplant the main boss with a series of mini bosses with a net result being the same.  I don't know.  I guess I like the tactical battles of these types of games that the grind never bothered me, but I can see the point Rayfer.

[Gusington]

Dragon Age: Inquisition is very good at giving alternatives to end chapters. Not sure about the ultimate ending to it, or even if there is a traditional ending, but DA:I is unconventional enough that it sometimes feels like a really well-produced fantasy strategy game.

FWIW the end boss fight spoiled the original Dragon Age for me too...I must have attempted it 100 times and looked for solutions in dozens of online places and just couldn't find a solution. So I stopped.

[Rayfer]

FWIW the end boss fight spoiled the original Dragon Age for me too...I must have attempted it 100 times and looked for solutions in dozens of online places and just couldn't find a solution. So I stopped.

+1 gus....I couldn't beat it either. Gave up trying. Loved the game but not the ending which I never got to see.

[BanzaiCat]

It only took me a couple of tries to beat the final boss in DA:O. Not bragging...but maybe I had it on a lower difficulty level? I don't remember, it's been so long since I got that far in the game. Though I really did not like the ending at all.